dorkey
Wide Circles

This week includes a good dosage of Bad Astronomy ranging from astrology and crop circles and their infiltration in academia, some typical psychic quackery, and some actual science reporting on behaviour of ‘cheaters’ in honey bee colonies….

Whatever the relationship between UCL and Kollerstrom it certainly beggars belief that he was “honoured” in the first place let alone keeping an association for as long as they did.

This seems to be a difference of terminology, which is where BA has got confused. in the UK at least, and I think in many other countries (but not the US, which is causing the confusion), when somebody holds an “honorary research fellowship”, that isn’t a paid position.

So he didn’t “get funding in the first place”, because there was no funding involved.

About the rest – I agree with the sentiment. Too many ridiculous degrees out there…

http://mikeb302000.wordpress.com/2008/06/24/holocaust-denial-thats-where-we-draw-the-line/

I think gay denial is pretty irrational too, but of course he’s no academic.

This does not seem too crazy to me?

You obviously aren’t familiar with Holocaust deniers. I am.

Many years later, husband and I went to an evening’s entertainment given by Michael Bentine – the only Peruvian born in Watford, and a really wonderful man. He was one of the members of ‘The Goon Show’ with Peter Sellers, Spike Milligan and Harry Secome.

He was also a member of the British forces during the war, with a fund of histerically funny stories to tell.

But his demeanor changed totally when he got on to the subject of the death camps. They’d taken a wrong turn and, unknowingly crossed the enemy lines. They ended up outside one of the camps (Buchenwald, IIRC) and were horrified at what they saw. He was – quite literally – foaming at the mouth and shaking with anger.

They were then informed of their error and told to withdraw, but they didn’t leave without first, unofficially, liberating the prisoners and sharing out their rations.

So don’t *anybody* try to tell me the holocaust didn’t happen!
–

The point is that the personal delusions of Kollerstrom (astrology as pseudo-science and, of course, his revisionism) are neither tolerated nor respected by UCL, and it is profoundly dishonest on the part of Phil to bash at UCL through ridicule without even corroborating the information he got from a single online newspaper article. I do not assume malice here – just lack of critical skills. The irony is not lost on me.

We’ve had more than our fair share of PhDs here in the States that have some crazy ideas (and get called on them from time to time).

I do see some disturbing undercurrents in the comments – not outright denials, but definitely the idea that maybe things weren’t as bad as portrayed – though I believe they were actually worse.

I don’t know if anyone here has ever been to the Holocaust Museum in DC – but it really brings home how bad it really was, not just for Jews, but Gypsies, Homosexuals, and every other undesireable that the Nazi’s wanted to get rid of.

I think evidence of what has happened over the past sixty years since, Cambodia, Rwanda, the Balkans, and Darfur (and many others) shows what countries can do with one hand tied behind their backs – I can only imagine the horrors when one makes an genocide into an assembly line process…..

UCL’s statement on Kellerstrom is quoted but only in part. The part making it clear that Kellerstrom was not employed is left out and then UCL is attacked for giving him money. Also, I’m afraid that starting the post with the phrase, “If this news article is accurate,” does not in my view excuse the inaccuracies. These are serious charges levelled against a prestigious university producing excellent astronomical research. I think they deserved the investment of a few minutes of web searching to verify that the allegations against them were true rather than hiding behind weasel words.

Regarding STS (Science and Technology Studies), both the original poster and the commenters seem wholly unaware of it. See, for instance:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_technology_studies

As with many social disciplines (including history and philosophy) some parts of STS are not science, but that does not mean that they are gross pseudosciences like astrology or crop circles. And regarding the smearing of UCL with astrology (bob on 23 Jun 2008 at 10:34 am) I think this will speak for itself:

Astrology@MIT:
tinyurl.com/4wqr5u

Astrology@Harvard:
tinyurl.com/539nh3

Astrology@Cambridge:
tinyurl.com/5tun8t
…and so on.

As it can be seen, astrology is a perfectly good theme for study – not as a divination aid, but as a cultural phenomenon that was, in the end, the cradle of astronomy.

An altogether careless, unfortunate post.

(Sorry if this comment appears double posted – it seemed to have been filtered due to the large number of links)

Regarding STS (Science and Technology Studies), both the original poster and the commenters seem wholly unaware of it. See, for instance:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_and_technology_studies

As with many social disciplines (including history and philosophy) some parts of STS are not science, but that does not mean that they are gross pseudosciences like astrology or crop circles. And regarding the smearing of UCL with astrology (bob on 23 Jun 2008 at 10:34 am) I think this will speak for itself:

Astrology@MIT:
http://tinyurl.com/4wqr5u

Astrology@Harvard:
http://tinyurl.com/539nh3

Astrology@Cambridge:
http://tinyurl.com/5tun8t
…and so on.

As it can be seen, astrology is a perfectly good theme for study – not as a divination aid, but as a cultural phenomenon that was, in the end, the cradle of astronomy.

An altogether careless, unfortunate post.

But I do think it would be a bit silly to teach it at a university as something that is real. On the other hand, the way in which believers deal with certain aspects of the belief, I imagine would be of great interest to psychologist’s and such, so I can see some merit.

The UCL Dept. of Science and Technology Studies is a highly respected department within a highly respected university. Astrology clearly has no basis in reality, but you can’t ignore its close links to astronomy as the latter was developing as a science. Likewise, there’s the cultural study of astrology and crop circles – the public at large love a good mystery, and it is a perfectly valid academic exercise to investigate this cultural phenomenon, particularly as it has sprung up from hoaxers’ creative wanderings around fields with sticks and rope. As you note in the footnote, there are valid studies of aspects of these topics, but the main text of your post clearly implies that at UCL, astrology and crop circles are somehow regarded as being on a par with physics or astronomy. They’re not, and this needs to be clarified.

Have a look at UCL STS department’s webpage, and you’ll learn what the department is about.

I know the phrase “If this news article is accurate” was used, but it would only have taken 5 minutes to check the basic facts in the original article before posting this message and effectively smearing the scientific reputation of an entire institution.

PS it wouldn’t surprise me if the original news article just got it plain wrong by calling astronomy astrology!

Nevertheless, the profoundly weak arguments against the traditional narrative of the Holocaust are probably deserving of ridicule simply in their uninspired-ness. While I would never advocate deliberate denial of the Holocaust, it is important to remember that a knee-jerk reaction against any narrative that challenges the normative interpretation makes us no better than those dogmatic anti-science groups.

I’m not familiar with the wording of the laws in European countries that ban Holocaust denial, but I hope they’re specific enough not to preclude the possibility of new evidence that challenges our existing knowledge. Ignoring ridiculous ideas is fine, but it should never be at the expense of legitimate discourse.

Seems more skeptical reading should be in the todo list of the bad astronomer.

Compared to the total number of people killed in Dachau there is little evidence that many people were killed in the gas chamber though. It is thought it may have been used for testing before building the gas chambers at Auschwitz where there is a great deal of evidence that the gas chambers killed hundreds of thousands if not millions.