The Dutch are being infected by American nonsense. It seems that thousands of them are buying into the Mayan 2012 end-of-the-world garbage.
On behalf of all reality-based Americans, I apologize.
According to the Telegraph, thousands of Dutch are stocking up on survival gear due to this antiscientific fantasy. And among the purchases are… boats. Because the Netherlands are sinking.
Um.
Mrs Faile said she was concerned that immigration was pushing the Netherlands, a low lying country protected by dikes and sea walls, beneath the waves.
“They keep letting people in. And then we have to build more houses, which makes the Netherlands even heavier. The country will sink even lower, which will make the flooding worse,” she said.
Um again. If the wood and building materials come from the Netherlands, then I don’t think the total weight of the country will change. And even if it does, I don’t think it’ll make much difference. Doing a little math, the average weight of a house is probably something like 30 or 40 tons. The amount of rain falling on someone’s yard will equal that in a few months, for example. The weight of someone’s yard (going down one meter in depth) will be more than that. In other words, the weight of all those houses and people will be a small fluctuation on what’s already there.
But then, someone panicking over a nonsensical prophecy is unlikely to be able to cbe onvinced of the idea that immigration won’t capsize their country.
Sigh.
There are times when I wonder if what I’m doing — debunking bad astronomy — is a waste, when I could be doing something else with a bigger impact. Then I read stuff like this, which reminds me vividly of the Planet X garbage from 2003, and I realize that there is a direct and immediate impact of nonsense on people, as well as a (sometimes very large) financial one.
Onward. Eternal vigilance. Never tire, never falter. It may seem silly, but remember:
No matter how silly, dumb, or ridiculous some piece of antiscience, there will be someone, somewhere, who will believe it. And there might be a few million who believe it.
So keep fighting, BABloggees. This battle will never end. Not even in 2012.
Tip o’ the life jacket to BABloggee Jeff Wittmer.
June 25th, 2008 at 11:19 am
From what I’ve heard of the whole 2012 business, the world isn’t even suppose to end really, so even in that sense what they’ve doing doesn’t make any sense. Beside, if the world was going to end, how exactly would some boats and wood save them?
June 25th, 2008 at 11:22 am
That’s it…I’m buying land in Alaska…in the middle of nowhere…because I’m tired of fighting this. I’m too weak Phil…
Seriously…sinking land?
June 25th, 2008 at 11:26 am
I’m amazed, I really thought my northern neighbours are smarter than that.
June 25th, 2008 at 11:27 am
CONSTANT VIGILANCE!
[/Mad Eye Moody]
June 25th, 2008 at 11:33 am
You know, I woke up this morning and didn’t feel as tall as I did yesterday. This might just explain it.
June 25th, 2008 at 11:37 am
I’m sure post-2012 money will be of absolutely no use to anyone after the world plunges into chaos.
Therefore, I propose that anyone who seriously believes this 2012 thing signs a legal contract which hands over all of their money to me on 1st January 2013.
We’ll see if they REALLY believe it or not…
June 25th, 2008 at 11:42 am
Ehm, as I’m Dutch I can say with some certaincy that this “hording” isn’t really happening on any scale that would be considered serious.
2012 believers are ridiculed here as much as anywhere else
Oh, and about the sinking, the only place in the netherlands where the ground has been “sinking” (we’re talking about a couple of inches in difference here) were places where we pump up natural gas (and the pumpers didn’t put enough replacing stuff back) or where the watertable has been lowered so much that the ground compacts.
We are spending alot of tax euro’s to make sure that any water trouble will continue to be unlikely. We have learned from our history….
June 25th, 2008 at 11:45 am
** sigh **
June 25th, 2008 at 11:48 am
Ha, ha: Mrs. FAIL
/’Nuff said!
June 25th, 2008 at 11:48 am
Gnat, Make sure you buy land at a high elevation!
BA, maybe I misunderstand you, but are you blaming this on America? Sure, we might lead the world in Creationism, but the rest of the worlds superstition started somewhere else and still thrives there. Compared to a great many parts of the world, America does really well ignoring this stuff.
Now like real Americans, we should stop apologizing and start selling the Dutch boats!
June 25th, 2008 at 11:49 am
Just don’t tell the immigrants about the plug. If they pull it out… the whole Europe will be in danger of sinking, not just the Netherlands.
However, there’s no need to for panic: this is why God made Great Britain: to serve as a lifeboat. The Tories won’t like it, but who cares what they think, right?
Of course, one might wonder why He made Europe out of wood and not out of rock like all the other continents. Weirdo.
June 25th, 2008 at 11:52 am
IMMIGRATION?! (*head palms*)… urgh..
CJSF
June 25th, 2008 at 11:53 am
Petra Faile has shamed the family name by linking Faile with epic FAIL.
June 25th, 2008 at 11:54 am
Crikey! I am Dutch and I hadn’t even noticed this. Good thing I live in a flat!
But seriously Phil, there are nutters in any country, I hadn’t even heard of this ‘hoarding boats’ until you told me
June 25th, 2008 at 11:54 am
The people that think land sinks in that fashion likely also think that as population increases so does the mass of the earth – not understanding that the balance is zero. (Honestly its scary how many people think that)
June 25th, 2008 at 11:57 am
Holy isostasy Batman!
June 25th, 2008 at 11:58 am
Sounds like those people are just projecting their own fear of immigration onto reality.
June 25th, 2008 at 12:04 pm
I don’t need a boat for 2012, my wooden shoes are so incredibly big that I can walk on water when my country gets flooded.
June 25th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
The ultimate test of any loon theory is to offer to buy their house for pennies right before the big day is set to happen.
I have yet to see any loon take the offer, and I’ve tried it several times — the Rapture that wasn’t in 1987, the Planet X scare in 2003, and most recently April 2007 when the world was supposed to end according to some Indian (the American kind) medicine man predictions.
June 25th, 2008 at 12:07 pm
Me and my IRL friends have a forum where there’s an active 2012 topic. I kept pasting the links to the rationales of the BABlogee and it worked! All my friends are smart again; although it could be they are just keeping up appearances
June 25th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
@ RL -
Shouldn’t we be blaming the Mayans?
June 25th, 2008 at 12:13 pm
Idiots. How long do they expect to survive in a life raft or some other type of open boat? If it were me, I’d book a cabin on the QE II.
June 25th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
Golly. The Telegraph quotes a Dutch newspaper, The Volkskrant. And they in turn quote, well… Petra Faile. To me that doesn’t make it “sEEm that thousands of them are buying into etc.” And I should know, for I’m Dutch myself. Anyway, it sEEms to be this lady:
http://www.hyves.web13.hyves.org/index.php?l1=ut&l2=photo&l3=show&media_id=243263267&media_secret=wDen
Yep. seems like blond to me.
June 25th, 2008 at 12:23 pm
cbe onvinced … a sly little reference to cdesign proponentsists?
Or just a typo.
June 25th, 2008 at 12:26 pm
This can’t be right. Everyone knows that the Mayan calender points to Pittsburgh.
A psychotherapist says so!
.
June 25th, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Dear BA, being Dutch, I can search in Dutch. Duh. According to the article it was first published in the Volkskrant. So I did a search on volkskrant.nl, and waddayaknow? Just one hit on maya kalender. In a non-related article about half a year ago.
Now if I google for “petra faile” (which isn’t a common name in Holland) the first hit points to drasties.nl. Which, indeed, has the article mentioned.
Problem is: drasties.nl resembles your late and lamented Weekly World News. So much for reliability.
My take: I think somebody has been had.
Pjotr
June 25th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
….Immigrants make countries sink? What? Are the Netherlands floating on big balloons or something? Did I miss something here?
June 25th, 2008 at 12:57 pm
Wait. Wait wait wait. I just thought of something totally cool.
If we take everyone on earth and shove them all in the same spot, what would happen? Would we like… Sink through a hole in the planet? That’d be awesome!
…well, beyond the fact that we’d all be death that is. (But yea, no way that would work.)
…Now that I think about it, if we fit everyone tightly together in one spot, how much territory would we take?
June 25th, 2008 at 1:03 pm
Phil
Why do you always have your hat in your hand when commenting to the rest of the world? Why are you so ashamed of the loons in the U.S. Believe me, Europe has more that its fair share of nuts.
June 25th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Silly Dutch people! Don’t they know that their little boats will be swamped by the tidal wave resulting from the comet impact of 2012? Some people…
June 25th, 2008 at 1:24 pm
With all due respect to BA and Dutch posters, parts of the Netherlands *is* sinking, much like parts of New Orleans. The current rate, I think is about 1/4 of an inch (0.635 cm) per year. The problem is one of geology and building on what were marshes.
Now, I realize BA was pointing out the weight of buildings and people are likely not leading to ground subsidence. That said, I question a key assumption that rain water would accumulate over time – with most of the country below sea level, the Dutch are not going to allow that to happen. The buildings represent a permanent weight. A more pertinent issue is whether paving and building construction hasten the conditions which are contributing to ground level subsidence. This is not necessarily dependent on weight, and it may be that the simple act of draining land is the major cause of ground subsidence in the Netherlands.
I’ll also note that the most urbanized areas in the Netherlands are apparently built on the soil most prone to ground subsidence. Someone who did not take into account the nature of the soil might conclude that subsidence is entirely due to urbanization. It’s not a nutty idea, only a misinformed one.
I’m somewhat bemused by those who think the world will end in 2012 who are also buying boats. When the world finally ends, a boat isn’t going to do a whole lot of good . . .
June 25th, 2008 at 1:25 pm
This reminds me of the Y2K scare 9 years ago. Alot of people at my work were stocking up on food and water because Jan 1, 2000 was the end of the world. I was laughing at these idiots then and I’m laughing now. It’s starting to become more embarrassing to be an American. The rest of the world is either laughing at us or becoming us (Americans spreading their ignorance). It should be mandatory for every American to take a critical thinking class. Maybe this nonsense will go away then. *sigh*
June 25th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
I know the good folks at the Universe Today sister site have been fighting the good fight in this regard. Ian O’Neill has been writing a series of article debunking the whole 2012 mythos. Things seem to have died down a bit, but after his first post there was an astounding outburst of nonsense from a load of commenters. I tried my best and I thought I had actually gotten through to a couple of them, but just as they seemed to agree that there wasn’t anything to fear about 2012, in the very next comment they would simply toss the previous discussion out of the window and regurgitate a load more nonsense about 2012 from somewhere else.
There is just no helping some people.
June 25th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Why worry? Fake end-of-the-world panics give the reality-impaired something to do. If they’re busy buying generators and MREs and digging fallout shelters, maybe they’ll forget to run in the next school board election.
June 25th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
So… wait… hang on a minute… Exactly how many times over the last decade has the world been supposed to end?
(And why don’t these people wear those sandwich board thingys anymore? Those things had a certain kitsch charm about them…)
June 25th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
That’s why sea levels will be rising! It’s not melting ice caps due to global warming, IT’S THE IMMIGRANTS! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA…
Oh my, I needed that good laugh… I mean, no, really, it’s sad that somebody can be so confused, but BWAHAHAHAHAHA…
June 25th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
First time I’ve heard that people are hoarding here in the Netherlands because the end of the world is near… Funny how that news propagated from a fringe site, to a Dutch newspaper, to a UK newspaper, and finally I read it here on the BA Blog. *waves to the other dutchies here*
By the way, a good part of the Netherlands is actually sinking, because a lot of the soil here is clay, which compacts over time (and we no longer allow rivers to flood every year to deposit new clay to compensate).
Her concerns about immigration are complete hogwash, though. The weight of the immigrants themselves is negligible, of course. Also, in the areas that are prone to sinking, houses tend to be built on columns that are driven into the ground until they reach a steady layer (usually sand). Therefore, the houses can’t possibly contribute to the sinking: the land sinks, but the houses stay up. Really, the bit about letting people in and building them houses sounds more like a rationalization for immigrant hatred. Which, unfortunately, is far more common here than End-of-the-World lunacy.
June 25th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
There are certainly plenty of Dutch people who embrace all sorts of nonsense. Medical nonsense, such as homeopathy, is very popular; so are crystals, astrology and Feng-Shui. But like other commenters I’ve also done a scan round the Dutch-language sites, and I think the thousands of people who are stocking up on survival gear for 2012 are just a fantasy of Petra Faile.
June 25th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
That’s why we are having all the flooding in the mid-west. All those canadians coming illegally over the boarder, causing the land to subside and the apparent water table level to raise.
I can’t believe we are building a fence across the Mexican boarder, when the Southwest needs water so badly, but we are doing nothing about the torrent coming from Canada.
June 25th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
You Americans are so arrogant! You think you invented stupidity?
The Dutch people had stupidity long before Columbus ever stumbled upon your inconvenient continent. They also had bigotry, cruelty, pigheadedness, public drunkenness, and even … arrogance!
June 25th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
One of the most common closed-minded assumptions among “free-thinkers” is that America is to blame for everything. If you’re going to jump to that conclusion, please show me your steps in logic.
June 25th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
My boss is totally into the 2012 stuff. He doesn’t believe the world’s going to come to an end, though, he says, “Dude, there’s going to be a total paradigm shift, just you wait and see.” He says the Mayans believed in phases of existence, the next one beginning in four years.
June 25th, 2008 at 3:24 pm
@Nathan: Hey, if it weren’t for our continent he would have fallen off the edge of the Earth.
June 25th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Obsequious much? I’m not going to apologize if particularly stupid Dutch people are buying boats to save themselves from immigrant sinking… which, as has been observed, appears to be a tabloid and probably a joke piece.
Then again, maybe this is part of the Insidious Islamist Master Plan! Immigrants will flood all of Western Europe and the increased mass of brownies and other not-quite-white people will make the continent sink! And then Putin will establish Greater Germania over the remains, and General Tojo will arise from the dead to lead the Imperial Japanese Necrarmy to turn the entire world into undead Communists!
How this helps the agenda of the Dar-al-Islam is beyond me, but it’s fun to pretend.
June 25th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
Many people really will believe anything and sadly, the ones that I’ve encountered that really believe stuff like the Mayan 2012 end-of-world thing are really hard to reason with when it comes to said woo. It really does seem like we’re not making a difference sometimes.
June 25th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
The sinking of land is called subsidence (bodemdaling) and is a well understood phenomenon. A lot of research on this topic is done at the Dutch university where I work (http://www.water.tudelft.nl). As mentioned before, in the Netherlands subsidence is caused by human activities like draining ground water and natural gas. Off course the weight of buildings have nothing to do with it, but where people build homes, people want to keep their feet dry, so they drain more water from the land – and presto: more subsidence. A subsidence of 1 to 2 meters is anticipated in the next 100 years in large parts in the west of the Netherlands – which is mostly below sealevel allready. No reason for panic yet, but there is a growing awareness that something should be done about it (again) in the near future.
And yes, sadly a lot of Dutch people are into pseudoscience and woo woo. But we have a minister of science and education who is a outspoken atheist (and molecular geneticist by the way). I have to admit I am pleased with that, but what’s more is that in the Netherlands most people didn’t even give it a second thought…!
June 25th, 2008 at 3:54 pm
[...] Als ik Phil Plait, de Bad Astronomer aan de overkant van de Grote Plas, mag geloven is er in Nederland een ware 2012-gekte losgebarsten. Tenminste, dat is wat je volgens hem mag geloven als je de Engelstalige Telegraph leest, die op haar beurt die wijsheid weer heeft ontleend aan de Nederlandstalige ‘kwaliteitskrant’ de Volkskrant, ahum. Het draait allemaal om de inmiddels roemruchte datum van 21 december 2012, de dag dat de Aarde schijnt te vergaan. Volgens de Maya-kalender zou die dag de Lange Telling aan een nieuwe periode beginnen en dat zou fataal voor de Aarde zijn omdat dezelfde dag Aarde, Zon en het centrum van de Melkweg op één lijn staan. De Telegraph rept van duizenden Nederlanders die uit angst voor die doemdatum reddingsboten kopen, bunkers aan het bouwen zijn en voedselvoorraden inslaan. Bron van deze krant is weer De Volkskrant, die o.a. ene Petra Faile aan het woord laat, een soort beroepsdoemdenker zullen we maar zeggen. Volgens haar is het vooral de immigratie die noodlottig is, want door al die mensen die hier binnen worden gelaten wordt Nederland voller en voller en daarmee steeds zwaarder. En dus zakt Nederland steeds meer weg. Boehoehoe, zoiets geloof je toch niet? ‘t Is zo te zien meer een ex-Leefbaar stemmer die gefrusteerd in De Volkskrant terecht is gekomen en daar een podium voor haar stupide ideeën heeft gevonden. Een storm in een glas water. Terecht dat vele commentatoren op Phil’s bericht hebben gezegd dat hier in Nederland totaal géén gekte is losgebarsten en dat alleen de gekte in mevrouw Faile de vrije hand heeft. Eh… even voor de duidelijkheid: in genoemde astroblog heb ik talloze argumenten aangevoerd waarom de Aarde NIET vergaat op 21 december 2012! Jullie kunnen rustig uitslapen op 22 december 2012. Bron: Bad Astronomy. [...]
June 25th, 2008 at 4:00 pm
- Plait’s Law
June 25th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
“Never give up, never surrender!”
June 25th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
Is this really such a surprise?
In(s)ane beliefs are rampant in this country.
We have a cabinet whose majority is made up of christian parties. I’m not talking about some people holding christian beliefs. They’re actually called the Christian Union (CU) and Christian Democratic [Appel] (I have no idea how to translate that, the abbreviation is CDA).
Admittedly, it could be worse, but not a whole lot. Political pressure to curb stem-cell research. Donor laws being put down because of ‘religious circumstances’ or whatever the official rationale is (hint: it’s still because of religion). The CU is particularly nasty at this. Wanting to put abortion laws back up for discussion and such.
And yet, somehow, we just take it as a given that such parties exist, and should be allowed to exist, in our political system.
Separation of church and state, my ass.
June 25th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
This reminds me of something the ‘Museum of Hoaxes’ (more a site of oddities, silly media ravings, absurd claims and such than a full-on skeptic site) ran a couple of years ago about two men who, in 1824, persuaded a large group of working men that it was necessary to saw New York in half to prevent it tipping up on one side and sinking (read it ages ago; my details are a little foggy).
Check it out here: http://www.museumofhoaxes.com/hoax/Hoaxipedia/New_York_Sawed_in_Half/
June 25th, 2008 at 5:27 pm
Instead of building a boat, Mrs Faile could succeed as a swedish immigrant. Most of our land is still flexing back from the last ice age.
IIRC there are parts up north, Höga Kusten (the High Coast), that is pushing up at a rate of 0.8 cm/year. You can’t keep a good Sweden down!
June 25th, 2008 at 5:48 pm
pjotrk (12:30 pm) and others who think it was not published in the Volkskrant: it was on page 22-26 of “Volkskrant Magazine” last Saturday.
June 25th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
I’m not concerned about 2012. I just looked at my calendar on the wall and found out that there is nothing after 31 December 2008!! Oh woe is me for not realising how soon the world would end and not being prepared for it!!!!
Pffft!!!! there really is no monopoly on stupidity is there. It doesn’t matter how this stuff gets out there, someone always believes it and then away we go again.
As for phases of life, why not. We know the the earth has already been through several phases in its existence so far. People go through phases of life as they grow and grow old.
It seems I’m idealising again. I keep dreaming that this mass hysteria might get turned ito something worthwhile. If only that were true
*ramble and rant mode disabled*
June 25th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
The thing I love most about this article, is that the end of the world implies a certain degree of finality. If the entire world really is coming to an end, is an inflatable boat and a couple of cans of beans really going to help that much?
Me? I’d go for a deck chair instead.
June 25th, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Well I think if I was living below sea level with no place to go, and looking at the possibility of major sea-level rises in the future, I would be somwhat nervous. Not enough to buy into 2012 though.
Have any of them built an ark yet?
June 25th, 2008 at 8:01 pm
I think the Mayans got the date wrong. As far as they’re concerned their world ended a long time ago.
In my world, SQL Server, the world didn’t exist before 1 Jan 1753 and ends 31 Dec 9999.
June 25th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
2012: The world ends for the UK when the Olympic committee abandons its policy of peace and nukes London for not finishing the new stadium.
June 25th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
The Dutch probably get most of their 2012 supplies from http://www.2012Supplies.com
June 25th, 2008 at 11:03 pm
Well it’s good I emmigrated to New Zealand then, made the country a bit lighter that way!
June 25th, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Evidently, no-one told Zager and Evans about the Mayan calendar.
Zager and Evans?
“In the year twenty-five-twenty-five, etc.”
June 26th, 2008 at 12:56 am
Why even try to debunk this BS ? let the morons believe it then just laugh.
Just checked out Jon`s link…Hehe what exactly would you need supplies for ,if the world is coming to a screaming halt?
June 26th, 2008 at 1:30 am
No, no, no……… If the Netherlands is sinking, it’s because of the accumulated weight of decades of issues of National Geographic (the Dutch edition, of course). It was proven back in the 1950s or 60s that the same thing was happening to Manhattan. I know it’s true, I read it in the Journal of Irreproducible Results!
June 26th, 2008 at 2:23 am
Please remove comment-184971 SPAM
http://www.badastronomy.com/bablog/2008/06/25/dutch-clutch-such-uh-nonsense/#comment-184971
June 26th, 2008 at 3:02 am
Considering that about 50% of the Dutch don’t believe in God means they probably believe in something else, I think 25% of those non believers look to Char and then the rest are looking to Petra, casting the finger at us immigrants. Maybe if I lose 5 pounds she’ll let me stay.
And to blame this on America … nah, you give us way too much credit.
June 26th, 2008 at 3:05 am
Sailoron (7:29 pm) asked “Have any of them built an ark yet?”; the answer to that is ‘of course!’. Some guy built a (half-size) replica of Noah’s Ark “complete with modal animals”. It is a “testament to his literal belief in the Bible.”
BBC news story: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6604879.stm
The website of the ark: http://www.arkvannoach.com/language/en/
June 26th, 2008 at 5:08 am
I’m from Holland and I concur and this country is desperately trying to imitate the unite state. Its a sad state of affairs.
June 26th, 2008 at 5:29 am
The article calls the Dutch ‘rational and laid back’… I remember those days. They were good. But they’re gone.
Every day I wake up hoping that the Dutch people have gotten sensible and give people like Char Margolis, Derek Ogilvie, the 2012 nutters, and all those other cranks and charlatans out there a good laugh and nothing more. But even after a primetime special on Char (with James Randi, w00t), no one has seemed to budge. This country is indeed trying to turn into the US, and it’s disturbingly succesful at it.
June 26th, 2008 at 6:06 am
The Centipede:
“…General Tojo will arise from the dead to lead the Imperial Japanese Necrarmy to turn the entire world into undead Communists!”
Man, I keep forgetting if the Imperial Japanese Necrarmy Revolution is coming out in Summer or Fall. The concept art for the Ghost Ship Yamato is just stunning.
June 26th, 2008 at 6:18 am
“There are times when I wonder if what I’m doing — debunking bad astronomy — is a waste, when I could be doing something else with a bigger impact.”
Please don’t stop anytime soon. I need the laughs. The stuff you find is unbelievable, literally. True, you can’t change the world. But if you educate and change one mind, that mind will educate and change a mind, and that mind will…. I try to do the same, though not as eloquently and convincingly as you.
June 27th, 2008 at 8:46 am
Did this nonsense actually START in America? Or are you just being one of the cool kids and slamming the US?
July 2nd, 2008 at 3:56 am
# Michelle Says:
…Now that I think about it, if we fit everyone tightly together in one spot, how much territory would we take?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand_on_Zanzibar#Explanation_of_the_novel.27s_title