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	<title>Comments on: 100 years ago today: KABLAM!!!!!</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/06/30/100-years-ago-today-kablam/</link>
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		<title>By: Renee</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/06/30/100-years-ago-today-kablam/#comment-97777</link>
		<dc:creator>Renee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2012 04:39:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/06/30/100-years-ago-today-kablam/#comment-97777</guid>
		<description>There is a book by Bill DeSmedt called &quot;Singularity&quot; (http://www.billdesmedt.com) which puts a bit of a twist on the old Jackson/Ryan hypothesis, which posited that the Tunguska impactor was actually a primordial micro-black hole. It is a good thriller with secret agents, ex-KGB spies, and the whole &quot;plot to take over the world&quot; thing going on. Of course J/R has been discredited mainly due to the lack of an exit event in the north Atlantic ocean, but in the book the micro-hole was also a monopole, meaning it had only one magnetic charge, which greatly changes the game for the theory that the impactor was something other than a comet or a meteor. Primordial black monopoles are hypothetical objects that could certainly exist if the String Theory explanation of cosmic genesis (or something like it) is correct. I won&#039;t ruin the story by explaining any further, but it is a great read and actual physicists like Kip Thorne and Jaccob Bekenstein have endorsed it for its scientific accuracy. There&#039;s actually a free full audiobook version on podiobooks.com that is read by the author as well (http://www.podiobooks.com/podiobooks/book.php?ID=61). Additionally, there are a series of short seminars called &quot;Dr. Jack&#039;s Soapbox Seminars&quot; that explain the real science behind the modified theory of black hole-as-impactor. They do a pretty darn good job of explaining black hole physics, debunking things like the Lake Checko crater theory, and pointing out some tantalizing details that lend some doubt to both the comet and asteroid theories at http://www.vurdalak.com/.

There&#039;s no doubt that *something* happened in the stony Tunguska river basin in the early morning hours of June 30, 1908, and based on the areal phenomena observed by Evenks witnesses in the area it was most likely some non-terrestrial object impacting the Earth, but the brutal truth is that after 104 years we have yet to discover any &quot;nail in the coffin&quot; evidence that conclusively identifies what that object was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a book by Bill DeSmedt called &#8220;Singularity&#8221; (<a href="http://www.billdesmedt.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.billdesmedt.com</a>) which puts a bit of a twist on the old Jackson/Ryan hypothesis, which posited that the Tunguska impactor was actually a primordial micro-black hole. It is a good thriller with secret agents, ex-KGB spies, and the whole &#8220;plot to take over the world&#8221; thing going on. Of course J/R has been discredited mainly due to the lack of an exit event in the north Atlantic ocean, but in the book the micro-hole was also a monopole, meaning it had only one magnetic charge, which greatly changes the game for the theory that the impactor was something other than a comet or a meteor. Primordial black monopoles are hypothetical objects that could certainly exist if the String Theory explanation of cosmic genesis (or something like it) is correct. I won&#8217;t ruin the story by explaining any further, but it is a great read and actual physicists like Kip Thorne and Jaccob Bekenstein have endorsed it for its scientific accuracy. There&#8217;s actually a free full audiobook version on podiobooks.com that is read by the author as well (<a href="http://www.podiobooks.com/podiobooks/book.php?ID=61" rel="nofollow">http://www.podiobooks.com/podiobooks/book.php?ID=61</a>). Additionally, there are a series of short seminars called &#8220;Dr. Jack&#8217;s Soapbox Seminars&#8221; that explain the real science behind the modified theory of black hole-as-impactor. They do a pretty darn good job of explaining black hole physics, debunking things like the Lake Checko crater theory, and pointing out some tantalizing details that lend some doubt to both the comet and asteroid theories at <a href="http://www.vurdalak.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.vurdalak.com/</a>.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s no doubt that *something* happened in the stony Tunguska river basin in the early morning hours of June 30, 1908, and based on the areal phenomena observed by Evenks witnesses in the area it was most likely some non-terrestrial object impacting the Earth, but the brutal truth is that after 104 years we have yet to discover any &#8220;nail in the coffin&#8221; evidence that conclusively identifies what that object was.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Laden</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/06/30/100-years-ago-today-kablam/#comment-97776</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Laden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2012 03:01:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/06/30/100-years-ago-today-kablam/#comment-97776</guid>
		<description>And, by the way, Will Wheaton posted this post on his G+ page, so there you go!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And, by the way, Will Wheaton posted this post on his G+ page, so there you go!</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Laden</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/06/30/100-years-ago-today-kablam/#comment-97775</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Laden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2012 03:00:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/06/30/100-years-ago-today-kablam/#comment-97775</guid>
		<description>Somebody ought to write a book about this kind of stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somebody ought to write a book about this kind of stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerry W Barrington</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/06/30/100-years-ago-today-kablam/#comment-97774</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry W Barrington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jul 2012 02:34:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/06/30/100-years-ago-today-kablam/#comment-97774</guid>
		<description>Tavi: Regarding Apophis...
It will take politicians to do *anything* about such a potential impact.  Consider the time scale, 17 years, then 7 more years.  Modern politicians simply don&#039;t operate on that timescale.  It&#039;s too far beyond the next election or 2.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tavi: Regarding Apophis&#8230;<br />
It will take politicians to do *anything* about such a potential impact.  Consider the time scale, 17 years, then 7 more years.  Modern politicians simply don&#8217;t operate on that timescale.  It&#8217;s too far beyond the next election or 2.</p>
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		<title>By: Aliens saved Tunguska! &#124; Bad Astronomy &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/06/30/100-years-ago-today-kablam/#comment-97773</link>
		<dc:creator>Aliens saved Tunguska! &#124; Bad Astronomy &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 17:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/06/30/100-years-ago-today-kablam/#comment-97773</guid>
		<description>[...] 1908, a smallish (30-50 meter wide) asteroid had Earth dead in its crosshairs. According to mainstream scientists, who we know make things up all the time, it was atmospheric [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 1908, a smallish (30-50 meter wide) asteroid had Earth dead in its crosshairs. According to mainstream scientists, who we know make things up all the time, it was atmospheric [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Rain of iron on Earth &#124; Bad Astronomy &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/06/30/100-years-ago-today-kablam/#comment-97772</link>
		<dc:creator>Rain of iron on Earth &#124; Bad Astronomy &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 15:36:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/06/30/100-years-ago-today-kablam/#comment-97772</guid>
		<description>[...] the other hand, one big enough &#8212; say, 30 meters across &#8212; could wipe out a city. Those are really, really rare, of course, happening on the timescale of many millennia. But [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the other hand, one big enough &#8212; say, 30 meters across &#8212; could wipe out a city. Those are really, really rare, of course, happening on the timescale of many millennia. But [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Farb</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/06/30/100-years-ago-today-kablam/#comment-97771</link>
		<dc:creator>Farb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 06:04:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/06/30/100-years-ago-today-kablam/#comment-97771</guid>
		<description>If Tunguska was a Beta Taurid, then the Earth would have been moving through the meteor stream (because of intersecting orbits).  Sure, motion relative to the galactic center would not factor here at all, but meteors in the stream would themselves move in highly elliptical orbits (essentially fixed) around the Sun (assuming the Beta Taurid stream still &quot;echoes&quot; the orbit of Comet Encke), and the Earth&#039;s duration of time &quot;in the bullseye&quot; would have been a matter of minutes, not hours.

I submit that the primary factor affecting a different location for the impact, assuming a gravitational perturbation delaying Tunguska&#039;s arrival, would have been determined by the Earth&#039;s revolution in its orbit around the Sun, not its axial rotation.  The practical upshot of this is that preventing a dangerous impact would be a matter of altering the impactor&#039;s motion in its orbit just enough that it would not intersect the Earth moving in its own orbit.

Seen in this light, the problem is more like managing air-traffic control (albeit from one of the aircraft).  Once methods are determined for deflecting objects (and it seems several will be necessary, owing to the differing natures of asteroid and comet types), then the only difficult task will be to monitor the inner Solar System closely enough to catch rogues.  Of course this argues for better asteroid study, as well as more mathematicians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If Tunguska was a Beta Taurid, then the Earth would have been moving through the meteor stream (because of intersecting orbits).  Sure, motion relative to the galactic center would not factor here at all, but meteors in the stream would themselves move in highly elliptical orbits (essentially fixed) around the Sun (assuming the Beta Taurid stream still &#8220;echoes&#8221; the orbit of Comet Encke), and the Earth&#8217;s duration of time &#8220;in the bullseye&#8221; would have been a matter of minutes, not hours.</p>
<p>I submit that the primary factor affecting a different location for the impact, assuming a gravitational perturbation delaying Tunguska&#8217;s arrival, would have been determined by the Earth&#8217;s revolution in its orbit around the Sun, not its axial rotation.  The practical upshot of this is that preventing a dangerous impact would be a matter of altering the impactor&#8217;s motion in its orbit just enough that it would not intersect the Earth moving in its own orbit.</p>
<p>Seen in this light, the problem is more like managing air-traffic control (albeit from one of the aircraft).  Once methods are determined for deflecting objects (and it seems several will be necessary, owing to the differing natures of asteroid and comet types), then the only difficult task will be to monitor the inner Solar System closely enough to catch rogues.  Of course this argues for better asteroid study, as well as more mathematicians.</p>
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		<title>By: Mask</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/06/30/100-years-ago-today-kablam/#comment-97770</link>
		<dc:creator>Mask</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 23:10:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/06/30/100-years-ago-today-kablam/#comment-97770</guid>
		<description>@Farb: The asteroid is moving relative to the sun, as are we, it&#039;s not floating free where our speed around the galactic center would matter. Its being dragged along for that ride as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Farb: The asteroid is moving relative to the sun, as are we, it&#8217;s not floating free where our speed around the galactic center would matter. Its being dragged along for that ride as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Farb</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/06/30/100-years-ago-today-kablam/#comment-97769</link>
		<dc:creator>Farb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 04:38:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/06/30/100-years-ago-today-kablam/#comment-97769</guid>
		<description>(Phil, This is something that requires a planetary astronomer to calculate more exactly.  I may be an amateur astronomer, but Bad Math is precisely WHY I&#039;m an amateur!  So Phil, I&#039;m electing YOU [BTW, this is paraphrased from another post I made at another BBS, so to the well-travelled science surfer, I&#039;m not plaigiarizing, just switching from a screen name I use in those happy controversy-free zones, where we get to discuss nothing but technology, techniques, and phenomena.].  Crunch the numbers and comment, please.)

We often hear, in relation to Tunguska, that if it were delayed by x number of hours, it would have struck more densely populated regions, of course more disastrously.

Well, I did some mental calculations.  To be sure, an hour&#039;s rotation of the Earth (about 1000 mph at the equator [7900mi x pi / 24h]) would have brought western Siberia to a point parallel with the Tunguska object&#039;s original trajectory (2 hrs., Moscow; 3 hrs., Berlin; 4hrs., London [this is where my math breaks down--is it still ~1000mph at that latitude, or does it matter?  Or should I rather calculate speed of longitudinal displacement?]), but then I considered the speed of Earth&#039;s REVOLUTION.

I was a little freaked out when I first realized, some years ago, that we are all constantly travelling faster than any astronaut has travelled relative to the Earth, our orbital speed around the Sun being about 65,000 mph (93,000,000mi x 2 x pi / 365.25d / 24h).  And then reading ASTRONOMY magazine just today I learned that our solar system&#039;s speed around the galactic center is about ten times that!

(Now there&#039;s a cute subplot for a time-travel story.  Too often has the intrepid time-traveller pushed &quot;the button,&quot; and miraculously re-appeared at exactly the same relative physical location in a different time, rather than empty space hundreds of billions of miles away! [Well, admittedly, the very acronym T.A.R.D.I.S. accounts for this, but there don&#039;t seem many other examples.  Oh, well.  Nothing in the universe is faster than the Speed of Plot, by definition.])

Anyway, the Earth itself would have moved tens of thousands of miles in the intervening time, assuming the Tunguska meteor was somehow delayed. Indeed, by the time Earth&#039;s rotation would have brought western Europe around, the meteor&#039;s original trajectory would have been at the distance of the Moon&#039;s orbit!

Even as little difference as fifteen minutes means the meteor would have missed by as much as 99942 Apophis is scheduled to miss on 13/4/2029, and no one would ever have known (and so the unanswerable follow-up question is: how many times have we been missed in the past by so little?).

But what if it had struck fifteen SECONDS later (I have a student who was born in Novosibirsk; we talked about this very subject this spring.), or a minute, two, three, or four? Then the impact zone would have shifted to the west by the speed of the Earth&#039;s revolution, rather than its rotation (although by 4min., there seems a possiblity it may have struck the atmosphere at such a shallow angle that it would have skipped).

These differences seem more in line with what gravitational perturbations might reasonably be expected to produce, and seen in this light, the narrowness of humanity&#039;s escape seems all the more troubling.  What do you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Phil, This is something that requires a planetary astronomer to calculate more exactly.  I may be an amateur astronomer, but Bad Math is precisely WHY I&#8217;m an amateur!  So Phil, I&#8217;m electing YOU [BTW, this is paraphrased from another post I made at another BBS, so to the well-travelled science surfer, I'm not plaigiarizing, just switching from a screen name I use in those happy controversy-free zones, where we get to discuss nothing but technology, techniques, and phenomena.].  Crunch the numbers and comment, please.)</p>
<p>We often hear, in relation to Tunguska, that if it were delayed by x number of hours, it would have struck more densely populated regions, of course more disastrously.</p>
<p>Well, I did some mental calculations.  To be sure, an hour&#8217;s rotation of the Earth (about 1000 mph at the equator [7900mi x pi / 24h]) would have brought western Siberia to a point parallel with the Tunguska object&#8217;s original trajectory (2 hrs., Moscow; 3 hrs., Berlin; 4hrs., London [this is where my math breaks down--is it still ~1000mph at that latitude, or does it matter?  Or should I rather calculate speed of longitudinal displacement?]), but then I considered the speed of Earth&#8217;s REVOLUTION.</p>
<p>I was a little freaked out when I first realized, some years ago, that we are all constantly travelling faster than any astronaut has travelled relative to the Earth, our orbital speed around the Sun being about 65,000 mph (93,000,000mi x 2 x pi / 365.25d / 24h).  And then reading ASTRONOMY magazine just today I learned that our solar system&#8217;s speed around the galactic center is about ten times that!</p>
<p>(Now there&#8217;s a cute subplot for a time-travel story.  Too often has the intrepid time-traveller pushed &#8220;the button,&#8221; and miraculously re-appeared at exactly the same relative physical location in a different time, rather than empty space hundreds of billions of miles away! [Well, admittedly, the very acronym T.A.R.D.I.S. accounts for this, but there don't seem many other examples.  Oh, well.  Nothing in the universe is faster than the Speed of Plot, by definition.])</p>
<p>Anyway, the Earth itself would have moved tens of thousands of miles in the intervening time, assuming the Tunguska meteor was somehow delayed. Indeed, by the time Earth&#8217;s rotation would have brought western Europe around, the meteor&#8217;s original trajectory would have been at the distance of the Moon&#8217;s orbit!</p>
<p>Even as little difference as fifteen minutes means the meteor would have missed by as much as 99942 Apophis is scheduled to miss on 13/4/2029, and no one would ever have known (and so the unanswerable follow-up question is: how many times have we been missed in the past by so little?).</p>
<p>But what if it had struck fifteen SECONDS later (I have a student who was born in Novosibirsk; we talked about this very subject this spring.), or a minute, two, three, or four? Then the impact zone would have shifted to the west by the speed of the Earth&#8217;s revolution, rather than its rotation (although by 4min., there seems a possiblity it may have struck the atmosphere at such a shallow angle that it would have skipped).</p>
<p>These differences seem more in line with what gravitational perturbations might reasonably be expected to produce, and seen in this light, the narrowness of humanity&#8217;s escape seems all the more troubling.  What do you think?</p>
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		<title>By: Tavi</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/06/30/100-years-ago-today-kablam/#comment-97768</link>
		<dc:creator>Tavi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jul 2008 16:00:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/06/30/100-years-ago-today-kablam/#comment-97768</guid>
		<description>&quot;But this anniversary is a sobering reminder that it can happen again, and it will, unless we do something about it.&quot;

That&#039;s presuming that we CAN do something about it. But what if we cannot? As we explore how we might monitor and even affect an approaching NEO, we should give equal effort to developing a comprehensive Impact Event Contingency Plan; and we should do it right now rather than later. As you note, we may not have the luxury of time.

I&#039;ve thought about it often. WHAT exactly will we do, when we determine that an asteroid has our name on it and that there is nothing we can do to change its course? For example, what if Apophis does make the keyhole on that first pass in 2029? Will we evacuate vast regions of populations? Will we even know exactly whom to evacuate? How and to where will all of those people be evacuated? We will have seven years to react - will we use that time wisely, or will we wait until the last minute and then panic? Are we now waiting until that 2029 pass to even begin to consider how we should react?

There are many questions that could actually be answered now; yet, as seems to be typical of those whom we enlist to address such issues, the response is slow and inadequate.

I read and hear arguments for the need to more agressively address the issue of impact. Let&#039;s hope that those putting forth the arguments are taken more seriously and with more expediency than what we have thus far seen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;But this anniversary is a sobering reminder that it can happen again, and it will, unless we do something about it.&#8221;</p>
<p>That&#8217;s presuming that we CAN do something about it. But what if we cannot? As we explore how we might monitor and even affect an approaching NEO, we should give equal effort to developing a comprehensive Impact Event Contingency Plan; and we should do it right now rather than later. As you note, we may not have the luxury of time.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve thought about it often. WHAT exactly will we do, when we determine that an asteroid has our name on it and that there is nothing we can do to change its course? For example, what if Apophis does make the keyhole on that first pass in 2029? Will we evacuate vast regions of populations? Will we even know exactly whom to evacuate? How and to where will all of those people be evacuated? We will have seven years to react &#8211; will we use that time wisely, or will we wait until the last minute and then panic? Are we now waiting until that 2029 pass to even begin to consider how we should react?</p>
<p>There are many questions that could actually be answered now; yet, as seems to be typical of those whom we enlist to address such issues, the response is slow and inadequate.</p>
<p>I read and hear arguments for the need to more agressively address the issue of impact. Let&#8217;s hope that those putting forth the arguments are taken more seriously and with more expediency than what we have thus far seen.</p>
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