Or it might mean that I saw the point of Phil’s post, and all you saw was something to be upset about and a reason to insult people.

Some socialism is a good thing, like health care and social security. Since McCain collects his SS check, do you want to call him a socialist too?

Since you are utterly self-reliant I take it you will not be calling the police when I come to your home to kill you and take your hard earned money.

And how the hell did you post this without using the ARPA-funded internet!?

Why can’t we edit? Not meaning to sound ungrateful here (esp. having just pointed out the ingratitude of others against NASA) but sheesh!

Oh & Phil, your silly ‘no swearing’ policy has me sounding very much like Ned Flanders and I’m not like that – very frustrating.

… But I love your blog all the same!

Socialism is NOT what most Americans (USA-ites for the geographical purists) think it is.

It ain’t Leninism, nor Communism any more than neo-conservatives are neo-nazis.

The happiest, most cosmopolitan and enlightened societies and nations in the world – Iceland, Denmark, Holland, Sweden, Ireland*, – tend to have good mix of socialist and capaitalist features. These incl. good governence -accountable, democratic leadership and, yes, are also high-taxing and high social security and welfare providing.

Free market capitalism that is unfettered gets you in a “Grapes of Wrath”
type nightmare. (Read some Steinbeck folks – he was one US author and socialist that got things spot on.)

As for private vs public space travel – judge them by their results
NASA had men inspace inthe 1950′s,the Soviet’s had thefirstman inspace, first woman in space and many successful missions back inthe 50′s and still
today. NASA got 12 people to the Moon. Built and flew the shuttle withgretasucccesses and theoddd catastrophic failure.

Public space agencies (on behalf of all the people for everyone’s benefit)
have launched and run all the space-probes to date from Magellan and Viking to Voyager and have sent four spacecraft beyond our solar system past the
orbit of Pluto!

Private space agencies (for the personal profit of a few superwealthy elitists) have … hmmm .. looks hard.. gets out microscope .. Ah yes, one or two sub-orbital flights with a couple of people pout in zero gee for a
couple of minutes. So today they are where NASA was in the late 1950′s -60′s ..

Those results speak for themselves. And much as I’d cheer Branson, Rutan &co on they say that Public is almost literally lightyears (or okay 100′s of AU at least!) ahead of private as far as space exploration goes.

Lets not knock NASA too hard or be too ungrateful about them considering the
magnitude of what they’ve achieved folks.

rivate is still

* For the record I’m an Aussie. Iceland topped the world according tohappiness and standard ofliving ina recent Un poll with theothers pretty much globally recognised for having good standards of living and being generally positive places tolive. The USA -soad tosay is along, long way behind them.

*the crew bunk on the lowest deck.
**make friends with the cook and you can hang out in the galley too if you’re that way inclined – we did

For me a trip shouldn’t even be a huge bank breaker. I’ll probably go by myself, and I’m the sort who doesn’t require fancy accommodations. The smallest, cheapest cabin at the back is fine. All I need is a place to sleep and freshen up. I treat Vegas that way as well.

If you have money to burn there is a Russian nuke ice-breaker that goes to the North Pole.

Ooo! That sounds cool. So to speak.

Last time I checked, they still worked. Privatization of space is a fallacy. Its going to take a federalized management approach and be supported by tax dollars anyway.

Socialized Corporatism. The way of the Republicans

‘The Life Of Brian’ was as much a satire of the British left in the 1970′s as it was one of religion.

One of my SF stories incorporates exactly this claim by neo-socialists after contact is made with an alien race. They are played off against neo-nazis who assert that the aliens must be a perfected form of Aryan, and fundamentalists who claim the whole thing is a secular-humanist hoax.

It was into the region of Antarctica directly below Australia, East Antarctica – Commonwealth Bay and a bit into the Ross Sea. We stopped off at Macquarie Island and some other sub-antarctic islands on the way down and back. Only 48 passengers which was cool too.

Now, when Aurora go to this region, they have a new boat. It carries 100 passengers and two helicopters. I would have killed to have a chopper ride on our trip but no choppers then unfortunately.

They also have another ship for the more frequent shorter trips to the Antarctic Peninsula from South America. Some of those trips drop in at South Georgia and the Falklands. We’re going there next time although the Ross Sea trip with choppers is really tempting.

Each trip will usually have a couple of experts on board – in our case we had a PhD whale expert and an old time (1950s-1970s) Antarctic scientist/explorer (he brought the age of exploration to life with his slides and stories). The guy that runs the company, Greg Mortimer, was the first Australian to climb Everest and the first Aussie to climb Vinson Massif, the highest mountain in Antarctica. He also lead our trip and is a great guy. Heaps of Antarctic tourism experience.

Having said all that Lindblad Expeditions offer very similar trips. There are quite a few companies offering trips. I’d stick to trips that are in ice-breakers or ice-strengthened ships that carry fewer than say 110 passengers. 50 passengers is really good. No waiting for anything – going ashore, chopper rides, spending all day on the bridge, etc. Do not, if you have any expectation of landing anywhere, choose a company that offers trips that have more than 1oo or so passengers. The cruise ships that carry 400 people that advertise landings are very limited in giving landing opportunities and are little more than vandals when they do.

One note about ice-breakers vs ice-strengthened. Ice breakers can charge through ice metres thick at 12 knots. Our ice-strengthened ship could only break through ice a metre or two thick at 4 knots. BUT, an ice-breaker will roll on a wet towel, so if you get sea sick… you will be sick a lot. Most trips are in the ice-strengthened ships and can get to most places anyway… with the usual caveats. We came within 20 or so kms of a French ice-breaker on a re-supply mission that had been stuck in the ice for a week. The dedicated ice-breakers are considerably more expensive trips too. If you have money to burn there is a Russian nuke ice-breaker that goes to the North Pole.

Have fun.

Apologies for the length of this post.

I leave it to the other commentators to make jejune comparisons between utopian political ideologies and other forms of millenarian thinking

The moral of this story? Socialism and Space Travel don’t mix.

Will you pay me?

QD != socialist

Those of us alive today may not be here long enough to feel martian rocks under our feet as we walk home after a long day, but during our lifetimes the foundations of off-planet travel and living are being built. It is uncertain whether governments will race to secure land rights, or if corporations will vie for ever-greater attractions, or if dedicated scientists will continue to claw and bite their way upwards, pulling the rest of us up with them. I think the great thing about us is that no matter how, people will prevail and get there. One of us will have a great-great grandchild who is not born on Earth, but to a family surviving much the same as us, elsewhere.

It would infinitely more pleasant if we could all be more accepting of each other on the journey, but it is the journey ahead none the less.

http://www.expeditions.com/index.asp

I was waiting to retire, but I think I can retire at 50, so… I think that’s OK.

That’s typical strawman idiocy. When someone says they are self sufficient and can take care of themselves, they are not rejecting the whole concept of society and community. What they mean is they have made their own way in the ways an individual can, and not suckled at the government teat. Obviously a man can’t build hiw own roads. The whole response is at a complete zero level of intellect.

He made his own way, worked hard, AND PAID THE TAXES to support police and firemen and road building, so you’re whole argument, such as it is, blows up in your face. Meanwhile, the slobs living off the government teat (as opposed to people who do honest jobs in the public sector) didn’t pay ANYTHING for police and fire protection and roads, but they still get to use them.

So this is truly a rich man’s toy, and ever will be.

OK, rocket scientist. And you know what? Even if it is, it’s none of your business if it is or not. It can still become a minor industry that provides jobs and technical innovations.

All the whining is simple jealousy and a pack of people who think they are smart and know NOTHING about economics, and suffer from all the ignorance and fallacies that lead people to embrace ideologies in the first place. Ideologues like you folks are smart about your ideology and politics, and that’s no better than being smart about mud wrestling and taking a dump. It’s worthless crap that’s holding back the species, and people like you happily feed the beast.

If you can label yourself with the name of one tiny part of the political spectrum (“liberal” or “socialist” or “anarch-capitalist”) you have stopped thinking. I know you think you’re so clever, but it’s an illusion. You have shut off your critical thinking facilities and are engaged in endless confirmation bias. You are a throwback that humanity needs to evolve away from. You are a dying brach of the evolutionary tree.