@The Black Cat,
I agree with you 100% when you ask, where were people when they were protesting the funerals of murdered homosexuals and AIDS victims. People need to rise up and stop this kind of hatred.

If it was set by one of Phelps’ guys, then they’ll just claim Satan or he was framed by the evil government. If it was set by someone against him, much as I’d like to applaud him, he just made the situation worse.
If it was by accident… doesn’t matter. He’ll milk it. Hopefully those kids will grow up and get their own mind someday, I feel sorry for them.

So please, when you make fun of Christians because of people like Phelps, keep in mind that most Christians hate him just as much as you do. Possibly more, since he’s the voice people hear from Christianity.

Research indicates it’s a reaction to species stress, especially from overcrowding. Just one more way Nature has of limiting an overly successful species excessive reproduction.

On the other hand, in humans at least, brain development in gay humans seems to be more conducive to developing artistic talent. I have no problem with that. Artists, like scientists, are cool.

One item to remember: human sexuality is very complex and is seldom as simple as straight vs gay. People exhibit a range of behavior, from one end of the curve to the other. On a scale of 1 to 10, I prefer being in the middle,,,I get to meet so many interesting people that way,,,

GAry 7

I wouldn’t. When they showed up the day of the funeral, police required them to be 100 feet away from the chapel per a recent Illinois state law. They were on a corner to the north on the only available public land in the area. Regardless of the law, I doubt they would have been given permission by the property owners south of the chapel, so that was really their only alternative.

They were noticed by some, but the distance really mitigated their impact.

You have no idea how much it hurts to see these people show up when people’s emotions are raw with the pain of loss.

Has anyone else had a direct experience with this group?

I was proud of those high school students who chose to bring a positive message to a painful afternoon.

This reminds me of a wonderful Babylon 5 quote. Centauri ambassador Londo Mollari was attempting to justify the ongoing feud between the Centauri and the Narn. (“Feud” is putting it rather lightly; conquest, slavery, revolution, war, reconquest, genocide…. It’s one of the major threads of the series.)

“Physics tells us that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. They hate us, we hate them, they hate us back. And so, here we are, victims of mathematics!”

Except that people don’t have to follow that. We are masters of our destiny. We can choose to end the cycle at any time. Because neither the Centauri nor the Narn were ultimately willing (as a people) to do so, it continued, costing many millions of lives. If this was arson and not an accident, then it’s sad that someone has chosen to continue the cycle — and perhaps escalate it. After all, disgusting as Fred Phelps and his followers are, they have not attempted violence to my knowledge. But if they believe that this is war, then perhaps now they will. I doubt they will; it doesn’t seem to be their style. But they’re kooky enough that I can’t say I know what goes on inside their heads.

“I would personally consider it far more plausible if it was arson that someone else did it. If Phelps wanted more attention there are numerous other ways to do it that won’t put them at legal risk. Starting the fire themselves would be illegal, and they have a lot of lawyers so they would know that. So far they have been very careful not to break any laws, and to the use the law for their own purposes. I find it unlikely they would suddenly break it now.”

You are making a whole lot of sense. Especially, since they take care to not break the law. So, that leaves spontaneous combustion of materials in the garage, or stranger arson, then. In my mind, anyway.

I brought up the possibility of one of Phelps’ group starting the fire partially as a serious consideration to keep on the table, but also partly playing to conspiracies. I am duly chastised.

Just a guess from someone who lives way too close.

At least he’s gotten a mild taste of what it’s like to be a despised minority now… not that it will enlighten him, or his nutcase followers one iota.

You did notice that I said “might” ask, right? My great grandfather spent most of his adult life serving in the U.S. Calvary, My grandfather commanded a destroyer in the pacific during WWII & Korea, my father served 4 years in the navy during Viet Nam before transfering to the Coast Guard. I served in the Coast Guard myself. I grew up a “Coasty”, whose mission is to save lives, so while I may feel the urge to strangle some of these people sometimes, I would be more inclined to help them.

I live in Washington state. A few months ago Phelps and his mary band were going to picket a Gulf veterans funeral. One of the good dicisions our governor made was to pass an ordinance prohibiting these guys from getting within, I think, 500 yards. Phelps and his crew canceled the picket.

So while I may feel that these people need to be “Thumped” as another poster put it, I am a little bit more level headed than that.

Also, although the thought of WBC starting the fire themselves did occur to me, I did not think it was worth bringing up. I cannot rule it out entirely, but like I would not immediately jump to the conclusion of arson, I would not immediately jump to the conclusion that the fire was started by them, either. The truth is there are a lot of people who would like very much to see harm done to Phelps, a few have even appeared in this thread. Bringing up the possibility of Phelps doing it seems to me at least somewhat an attempt to avoid having to deal with this fact. There are almost certainly violent people on our side of this issue, I think it is worthwhile to remember that. I recall when that biology professor was assaulted a lot of people on the creationist side brought up the idea that he had faked it for publicity. They were rightfully lambasted for this. I see no difference here, despite that fact that it is coming from the side I agree with this time.

I would personally consider it far more plausible if it was arson that someone else did it. If Phelps wanted more attention there are numerous other ways to do it that won’t put them at legal risk. Starting the fire themselves would be illegal, and they have a lot of lawyers so they would know that. So far they have been very careful not to break any laws, and to the use the law for their own purposes. I find it unlikely they would suddenly break it now.

I caan’t resist…
Gee, in the title of your Blog, are you validating the concept of God?
snicker.

Seriously, I find Preacher Phelp’s concept of God small minded. My concept of God, is one who does not need human help of any religion, to chastise people. He has earthquakes, tsunamis, hurrricanes, tornadoes, floods, asteroids and much more in His arsenal. “For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.”
First post quoted scripture which justifies the Almighty in using the arsenal mentioned in this post.

Same goes for God and homosexuals as for Fred and his followers: God loves His creation and creatures, but hates the sins of people.

Now, to the fire. I can see where all three viewpoints have validity. Only time and effort will uncover whether it was spontaenous combustion of materials in the garage; church member arson; or stranger arson. If and only if the latter, then I cannot see that playing into that church’s hatred is any kind of Christian act.

And, yes Michael L., Rolling Thunder bikers escort military funerals, when Fred and his bunch are present. That makes me pleased, with my fellow veterans. If I hadn’t already decided to go to four wheels from two wheels, for my privately owned vehicle, I would go out and buy a motorcycle, and ride with them, in this part of US of A.

I understand these people argue that the soldier’s death is divine punishment for US tolerance of homosexuals.

Has anyone pointed out that as long as you believe in these things, it just might be divine punishment for US intolerance of homosexuals … as shown by Phelps and similar?

These people showed up to protest her funeral. I have no words still to describe my horror and hurt when I realized they would be there. But they seemed so small after I saw these kids at the funeral greeting everyone with cheerful signs. One of them shouted to me, “God loves you!” I’ll always remember that.

Some stories about the tragedy:

Friends Remember Connie Woolfolk
http://www.enewspf.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1539&Itemid=0

Focus On The Love, Not The Protests
http://www.enewspf.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1551&Itemid=0

And a picture of those kids. The young man holding the green sign shouted the greeting to me:

1000+ Bid Farewell To Connie Woolfolk
http://www.enewspf.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1560&Itemid=99999999

I take no joy in Rev. Phelps’ problems. There is something greater than that man’s perspective, and somehow we came a step closer to that through this tragedy. We still miss our Connie.

While I can certainly see your point, all that would do is make Phelps a martyr among the “way over-the-top fundamentalist extremists.” Even the regular home grown brand of fundie disowns this nutjob, but there are those out there that support Phelps and hold views similar to his. As far as I know, the biker veterans that show up at the funerals of service men and women do a great job of keeping Phelps and his band of losers at bay and at a distance.

Some have, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrFVjg79_iM&feature=related

“While I agree that he may deserve it, there is no point to stooping to his level”
I know , but sometimes it feels real good.