I don’t know if some advertisers are stupid, or if they assume we’re stupid.
Case in point: I hear commercials where they say things like they’re product is "all natural". I like to point out that arsenic is an element. You can’t get much more natural than that, but I don’t want it in my lemonade.
So what do you do when a product is advertised as having no chemicals in it? Especially when it’s Miracle Gro, a product I’m pretty sure has at least some chemicals in it. Well, if you’re like me, you blog about it. If you are the UK government’s body in charge of advertising, you say it’s OK for companies to lie about their products on the air.
Happily, Frank Swain went the blogging route, writing about this on the Guardian’s website. Read it an shake your head in wonder.
Happily, nothing like that could ever be misleadingly advertised here in the United States.
Tip o’ the protective hood to Science Punk.
August 15th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Hmm…if there were no chemicals in it, then I guess that would mean that Miracle Gro is selling empty containers?
I think consumers could bring a case of fraud against Miracle Gro: buy the stuff, find out that it contains chemicals, then sue.
August 15th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
I’m pretty sure that Miracle Gro contains at least some Dihydrogen Monoxide, which is ingested when you eat the fruits/vegetables tainted with it, and which can be fatal if inhaled.
August 15th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
i have a problem with these pharasudical (is that spelled right?) commercials. and the lovley side effect. after hearing them i would rather have the disease.
i have a new pill, its called Relig-in, warning side effects may cuase dellusions of self importence, inability to pay attention to reality, fits of rage over contradicting ideas, voices in your head, oppresion of females, blowing yourself up, not eating for days, cutting yourself, enjoing pain, screaming in unison, fear of sky dogs and weekly attendace at a brain washing facility. Warning side-effects may be past on to your children
August 15th, 2008 at 2:11 pm
Warning this product is made up of 100% matter, it in any case, comes in contact with anitmatter, it will explode in a catastrophic explosion.
August 15th, 2008 at 2:20 pm
Then there was the comment by yogaboy (at the Guardian blog) in which he uses the term “lightyears” to describe a period of time.
Sigh…
August 15th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
I find that Dr. Stephen Colbert Formula 401 Manseed does the trick for me. Although Enzyte did make my nose grow bigger!
August 15th, 2008 at 2:27 pm
@Mikel
No, no. I think yogaboy meant that the meaning has travelled from far distant galaxies to Earth before the words were used. So, the meaning has travelled a long way.
August 15th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
@ Michael L.
You want to see noses grow, wait till out provincial elections ccome around. Commercail products have nothing on our political parasites, when it comes to defining their own reality.
August 15th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
At least they’re not selling homeopathic plant food.
August 15th, 2008 at 2:48 pm
@ CanadianLeigh
correction wait till any elections come around.
I use manure in my garde which probaby has more trace chemicals then straight chemical fertilizer but the plants probably need the trace chemicals as well as the nitrogen,potash, potassuim that is strandard in fertilizer.
August 15th, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Way, way OT here… but since Phil hasn’t posted about this yet (though I’m almost certain he will, despite his current travels) I have to ask… did anyone else see the “bigfoot” press conference a couple of hours ago?
Yikes.
August 15th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
sorry potash suppose to be phosphorus.
August 15th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
This is very similar to my beef about “organic” foods.
Uh, it’s food–if you’re eating it, it’s probably organic!
Things are either organic, or inorganic!
Guh.
August 15th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
I think you’re mixing up what people say with what they mean. In most cases “all natural” would mean unsynthesized and derived from ingredients that are not changed in any meaningful way from when it’s gathered or harvested to when it’s bought. “All natural” is just a sexier marketing term. Of course there are people that look at things like all natural and don’t understand what it means or the limits of the term, but it seems like a waste of time to talk about it more than once.
Sure arsenic is natural, but that doesn’t mean synthesized things are good for people either. I would say that it might be more worthwhile to talk about the limits of the term in a meaningful way instead of making as broad of claims as people do when they cry “all natural.”
But, that doesn’t mean that producing and growing things in natural and organic ways is not perhaps the better way to do things. Simply because the impact in farming areas can be much less, when done properly, than when using so-called “factory farms” and chemical pesticides and fertilizers. Runoff is really bad for fish specifically (I say this because in Washington that’s a big one), drinking water, and indigenous wildlife and foliage that might drink from the contaminated water. Of course improper organic farming can be just as harmful.
So maybe it’s more using the methods that work well with the least impact, and when using things like chemicals to fully discover potential side effects and reduce or even attempt to fully eliminate the possibility of any sort of contamination in places where those chemicals are not necessary. Responsible science and industry maybe? And education and public outreach so people actually understand?
August 15th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
@Davidlpf
Ever since humans became an agricultural society we have used manure as fertilizer. I find I can tell the quality of the food an animal is fed by the quality of the manure. For example some dog doo helps the grass grow while others burn a hole right through it. Before you believe the ingredients on pet food labels just check out the end results for a clearer picture. By the way this is just a casual observation, not an obsession.
August 15th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
@Canadian Leigh:
Yeah, I moved back to BC almost 2 years ago from Alberta, and thought a “Liberal” Government would be better than the Conservatives in Alberta. Let’s just say, I long for Ralph Klein!
August 15th, 2008 at 3:01 pm
Hey, that’s exactly what I used to say! Until I realized that the people I was addressing were probably just thinking “What’s an element?”. So now I’d say something like “The most deadly poisons we know of are natural,” or some such. It’s not quite as punchy, though.
August 15th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
@ CanadianLeigh I hope it is not obsession.
August 15th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
Speaking of politics and manure. Years ago on The Mike Bullard Show the leader of the Reeffoorrmm party of Canada Preston Manning was on. Mike asked him what his first job was, Preston said spreading manure, and som say I still do that today.
August 15th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Brummie comedian Jasper Carrott had a great line:
“Keep swimming man, the shark’s just natural…”
August 15th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
and was suppose to say, some I still do that today.
August 15th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
@CanadianLeigh
What do you have to feed a dog if you want flaming poo? I’ve been trying to weaponize dog doo for years now.
August 15th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
@Jose
Not having pets myself I have no subject for experimentation. My data is only aquired by the careful observation while picking up other peoples’ doggy doo while mowing my lawn. I realize this will hardly be viewed as a scientific method at its best. If any of you commenters are chemists I will be more than happy to ship you samples for closer analysis.
August 15th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
You mean all of that money I’ve spent on Enzyte was wasted! Damnit!
I love the all natural argument. Cocaine and marijuana are all natural too.
August 15th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
@CanadianLeigh
I believe, and I can’t recall where I found this out, that critters that eat meat tend to have waste that is pretty harsh on plants, while herbivorous animals tend to produce plant-friendly poo.
@tohers discussing “natural” farming
Regarding “natural” farming, a product that is used by gardeners that want to stay away from “chemical” pesticides is something called Rotenone. This substance is “all-natural”, in that it is derived from natural products and is not synthesized in a lab. It is pretty effective at keeping fungus and bugs off of your veggies. This substance is also used in larger quantities to kill fish, and there is evidence to suggest that it can contribute to Alzheimer’s Disease.
I have no problem with the “all natural” label, but there needs to be more education that “all natural” =/= “healthier”. As for the term “organic”, I think that just needs to be done away with altogether. It has no real meaning. Non-synthetic products and techniques can have some benefits over their man-made counterparts, but the reverse is also true. It’s really quite silly.
August 15th, 2008 at 4:26 pm
kino Says: “In most cases “all natural” would mean unsynthesized and derived from ingredients that are not changed in any meaningful way from when it’s gathered or harvested to when it’s bought.”
Well, that’s the real trick, isn’t it, defining “meaningful.” Personally, I define “all natural” as meaning “finding it in nature.” If I turn over enough rocks out there will I really find a tube of “Tom’s of Maine” toothpaste?
This subject is one of my hot buttons. I’m glad to see that some folks above have already spouted my opinions and saved me the typing time.
- Jack
August 15th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
Miracle Gro has no chemicals? Boy, don’t tell my plants.
August 15th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
I love chemicals but then again, I’m a chemist. Unfortunately that means I pick up on all the nonsense people believe when it comes to “chemicals”. The problem is no one ever talks about beneficial chemicals. I love to fill myself with dihydrogen monoxide when I’m thirsty, for example.
Bah! Don’t even get me started on “Kinoki Foot Pads!”
August 15th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
I looked at their website. The concentrations of NPK in their organic range are equal to those in their other ranges in several cases, although the organic “all-purpose” plant food contains a staggering one one hundredth the level of nutrients of the regular. So you could call that “99% chemical free” if you were feeling perverse. It’s definitely “99% fertiliser free”.
August 15th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Todd W.: You’re right about the silliness of “all-natural” because we could sell candy laced with arsenic and strychnine with that label. Most folks assume that natural means harmless.
Organic, though, seems to me a reasonable label to distinguish food grown without the use of man-made fertilizers and pesticides.
August 15th, 2008 at 4:56 pm
@The Chemist
Heh. I saw commercials for those Kinoki Foot Pads a while ago, and I complained to the FDA. I noticed a couple months ago that they are now banned from importation to the U.S.
August 15th, 2008 at 5:04 pm
How about Kinoki Foot Pads filled with nitrogen? Would I get better mileage?
August 15th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
@Jack Hagerty
I have no idea about toothpaste. I assume they probably grind up stuff. Somaybe if you take those rocks and use them to mash stuff into a paste? And I suppose by meaningful I mean…. I don’t know? I cook almost all my own food so I know what goes into it, and I prefer it that way.
But with prepackaged stuff with all the multisyllabic words, it’s not clear what you’re getting to a lot of people. (Me included, I’m not going to bother looking it up when I can make stuff for myself and as a plus have it taste better) What is the process that puts the stuff in there? What’s the reason for having it there? Are some for taste and some for preservation? A lot of it has to do with food as a large scale business model and feeding large cities. I don’t think there are simple solutions for those things. Stuff you buy in the store that is labeled organic from “organic companies” is actually coming from the same companies that produce the non-organic food.
I’d say try to buy local stuff. Supports the area you live in and you can go and find out how they grow the stuff and whether they do it with regard for the long term viability of the area.
@everyone talking about specific terms
I think what annoys scientists is that terms like organic and all natural don’t actually mean anything scientifically. They mean something, but not the connotative colloquial meanings like “without chemical pesticides, fertilizers, or preservatives.” But like The Chemist said above is true. It’s like what couldn’t be classified as a chemical in one way or another?
August 15th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
then there is the q-ray bracelet another quake product.
The only all natural claim a do not like is the when it comes to medicine not only do they contain chemicals but also can have a reaction to medicines already taken or completely inaffective.
August 15th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
“I don’t know if some advertisers are stupid, or if they assume we’re stupid. Case in point: I hear commercials where they say things like they’re product is ‘all natural’.”
hehehe. love the irony
August 15th, 2008 at 5:32 pm
there’s a cocacola advert running in the UK riuht now with a tag line that reads something like ‘Coca-Cola never has had, and never will have, added preservatives or artificial flavors’..
so I’m going to plant a bottle and see if it’ll grow into a cocacola tree.
August 15th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
Excluding angel tears, all products are “All Natural.”
August 15th, 2008 at 6:37 pm
One rather mysterious product I saw was labeled “Unprocessed bran.” I suppose they just blow a whistle and the bran hops off the grain?
A few years ago, I seriously considered writing a permission slip for my high school chemistry students to take home. It would have concerned the use of dihydrogen monoxide in the chemistry lab. The thing is, all materials sent home to parents need to be approved by an administrator. I had a particularly.. uh…. uninformed administrator in mind.
My department chair said I was an evil person.
If anyone talks to me about organic food, I ask them to show me an inorganic apple. Oh, and BTW, every pesticide I can think of is organic.
August 15th, 2008 at 7:04 pm
I blogged about this some months ago at thespacewriter.com and I got emails from several “nature” lovers informing me that things like arsenic and plutonium were man-made chemicals and therefore not natural…
*sigh*
August 15th, 2008 at 7:20 pm
Re: bigfoot – yeah, but where’s his flying saucer?!
August 15th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
Organic foods…..contain carbon.
And, so?
August 15th, 2008 at 7:41 pm
The great thing about products with no chemicals is that they can deliver it to you over the internet.
August 15th, 2008 at 8:33 pm
Kino said:
But, that doesn’t mean that producing and growing things in natural and organic ways is not perhaps the better way to do things
I cook almost all my own food so I know what goes into it, and I prefer it that way.
But with prepackaged stuff with all the multisyllabic words, it’s not clear what you’re getting to a lot of people. (Me included, I’m not going to bother looking it up when I can make stuff for myself and as a plus have it taste better)
I don’t know if one can format the comment text in this blog, so I’m not going to try it. So I’ll try to reply to all those statements at the same time (I wish I had “blockquote”).
There is no “growing things in a natural way”. Agriculture is a human invention. The thing that comes closest to what you suggest is foraging for plants that appear on the ground without human intervention (forget about improved, more tasty and more nutritious cultivars with higher yields) and hunting animals that weren’t born through some kind of husbandry. To make my point clear: all agriculture and animal husbandry are artificial, not natural in the way those who attribute some sort of mystical properties to the term understand it.
When you eat any unprocessed(or almost unprocessed) animal or vegetal product YOU DON’T KNOW WHAT YOU’RE EATING. The composition of living organisms, specially plants, is so complex (look for the term “secondary metabolites”) that people are still working to elucidate it. That’s why most plants, that are as natural as natural can be, are unedible, and many are frankly poisonous (after all, they somehow have to protect their resources from being eaten by animals… That’s another thing: many of the improved cultivars came to be so because people worked hard to elliminate the noxious properties present in the natural unmodified species). The only thing is that although there still are many multisillabically named substances in your food, you just don’t know you are eating them.
August 15th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
So are crackers made from all-supernatural ingredients?
August 15th, 2008 at 8:59 pm
While I agree with some of the points being made, I gotta say.. “Organic food” is a shorthand for “organically grown foods” where “organically grown” means not using any synthetic chemicals as fertilizers for plants and/or animals fed only such plants. I really see no problem there, and it’s just silly nit-picking that usage.
August 15th, 2008 at 9:29 pm
Lurker the crackers ingredients are turned supernatural by the priests blessings.:-)
August 15th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
I always get a kick out of “Supplies are limited!” Really? I allumed you had an infinitely large warehouse somewhere, and an unlimited supply of raw materials from…somewhere. Is this one of those scams involving a black hole and a white hole?
August 15th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
they’re = their? second line down
August 15th, 2008 at 10:25 pm
“Do not taunt Happy-Fun-Ball”
August 15th, 2008 at 11:17 pm
I’ve never heard of either of the links to the American “pharmaceuticals” that Phil linked to in his blog. I guess that’s part of our regulations on advertising drugs in Canada
Pete
August 15th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
Obviously, they subscribe to the Colbert “Truthiness” methodology!
August 16th, 2008 at 12:02 am
“I like to point out that arsenic is an element. You can’t get much more natural than that, but I don’t want it in my lemonade.”
I take it that Phil is not a bacterium.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:06 am
Yeah, the whole “all organic, all natural” gobbledigook drives me crazy too.
One slogan in particular a few years back caught my eye: “nature’s blend”. I would see that and wonder if the manufacturers (it was some “herbal supplement”) included whale feces, live beetles, gravel and Ebola…
Yeah, it’s nit-picking. But pointing out sloppy thinking is still worthwhile. Especially when said slop is deliberately formulated to a particular end, be it some company’s bottom line or a politician’s agenda.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:20 am
I like to point out that arsenic is an element. You can’t get much more natural than that, but I don’t want it in my lemonade.
At least not until he starts the UFO cult and the next comet hiding an alien space craft swings by.
August 16th, 2008 at 12:44 am
Saw a foot spa ad the other day which had “Infra-blue” heat ! I started out in advertising in the 70s. I didn’t last long. I had too many morals
August 16th, 2008 at 12:55 am
MarbleMad Says:
there’s a cocacola advert running in the UK riuht now with a tag line that reads something like ‘Coca-Cola never has had, and never will have, added preservatives or artificial flavors’..
In the US, Coca-Cola contains carbonated water, phosphoric acid, high fructose corn syrup, caramel color, natural flavors, and caffeine.
No Phosphoric Acid? No fake sugar or brown dye? Man it must taste and look funny. Gimme an Irn Bru!
August 16th, 2008 at 1:04 am
I know what you mean too. I usually respond with “horse manure and hemlock are both all natural too, but I don’t want a big steaming pile for dinner, thank you.”
August 16th, 2008 at 1:25 am
Happily, nothing like that could ever be misleadingly advertised here in the United States.
You’re kidding right? If not, I’m heading out to buy all of Kevin Trudeau’s books.
I always loved “herbal” used in ads. Herbs are any plant. So you could market herbal shampoo made with stinkweed and poison ivy.
And as far as “organic” goes, most states and the USDA define organic products as being free of synthetic pesticides and fertilizers, and the land they are grown on as not having been treated with such items for (usually) three years. So how long is the expected toxisity of DDT or Roundup?
Organic farmers can, and many do, use organic pesticides such as pyrethrumoids and nicotinoids which can be quite toxic even though the former is derived from chrysanthemums, and the latter from tobacco. I worked for many years in the restaurant business,and the only bug killer we could legally use were pyrethrums, as they supposedly won’t kill people. But after using it, I can safely say I wouldn’t want it around my dinner.
August 16th, 2008 at 1:38 am
Harold Says:
Is this one of those scams involving a black hole and a white hole?
No. Its a brown hole.
August 16th, 2008 at 2:10 am
I would think that the intent of the word “natural” could be roughly defined as, “any substance that is harmless to humans due to repeated exposure over millions of years of evolution.” Ideally, that would be extended to all forms of life.
August 16th, 2008 at 6:45 am
Cyanide is strictly organic, and it can be harvested from almonds!
August 16th, 2008 at 7:52 am
My favorite are those pads you put on your feet that “purify your body”. How they get away with airing those commercials, I’ll never understand. It’s pure snake oil.
August 16th, 2008 at 7:56 am
Guysmiley:
Do you mean this one?
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/29554
August 16th, 2008 at 8:15 am
Um, not to be complaining or anything but I miss astronomy posts. HINT HINT.
August 16th, 2008 at 9:13 am
SQUEEE! Completely OT but you guys that are as LHC nuts as I am are gonna LOVE LOVE LOVE this site
http://petermccready.com/
it is a virtual tour of the LHC you can pan round and zoom in and and and it is AWESOME!
August 16th, 2008 at 9:28 am
Kind of, on a related not.. I recently started working for the National Health Service, and in my induction was told that all leaflets describing NHS services are written at the level a 12yr old could understand… because that is the average reading age of people in Britain. I’m not saying 12 years old children are stupid but it does imply something when NHS materials are written at such a basic level. There was a point I was getting to… Oh yeah, advertisers obviously do think we’re stupid because, apparently, we are.
August 16th, 2008 at 9:35 am
Reminds me of the sign at Glacier Point Rd. in Yosemite National Park that says, “NO GAS NEXT 18 MILES.” Oh no! What are we going to breath?
August 16th, 2008 at 10:22 am
Actually, Roundup and many other modern herbicides break down very quickly in the soil. DDT is of course another matter. But never mind the kid’s stuff. Arsenic used to be used on tobacco, and now that tobacco is no longer grown as much that land is used for other purposes. In Southern Maryland, where I live, that means housing developments of McMansions on lots of a half acre or so. So the homeowner decides to eat “organic” and grows veggies and stuff in her back yard, and is feeding her kids arsenic. [sarcasm] AFAIK arsenic doesn’t break down very fast at all. [/sarcasm]
As far as I’m concerned, “organic” properly has two meanings. Either it refers to things that are alive or come from living things, or it refers to the chemistry of compounds of carbon and hydrogen. No other use is proper, and I will object to any such improper use even if I am the last one on Earth to do so. That’s just the kind of guy I am.
August 16th, 2008 at 10:46 am
BaldApe, I can assure you you won’t be the last one: I intend to outlive you. Nothing personal.
August 16th, 2008 at 11:19 am
Do chemicals exist previous to the emergence of modern Chemistry? Did earth, water, air and fire exist as separate and distinct elements in Ancient and Middle Ages? Can stupidity flourish in the absence of stupid people?
August 16th, 2008 at 11:29 am
Didac: Yes, no, and no.
August 16th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Of course they assume we are stupid, duh! Why else do you think millions of people fall for commercials and buy stuffs unnecessarily? Oh, and at least with the no chemical claim, you can say that you will lose weight by eating vacuum.
August 16th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
madge Says: “Saw a foot spa ad the other day which had “Infra-blue” heat!”
I love it! Isn’t infra-blue, like, green? With that being the current magic marketing color, I’d say they were just riding the wave.
- Jack
August 16th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
I use Miracle Grow fertilizer on the tomatoes and strawberries I grow in my garden. I must admit they taste much better than store bought fruit but that’s because they were selected for their taste, not their ability to survive transport 2000 miles to market and the use of “synthetic” fertilizers is just something that works. Hey, what can I say. I’m an engineer by inclination.
“Organically grown” food tastes no better to me than any other store bought food. All are nutritious but the factory grown food is a whole lot cheaper.
For best taste, grow it yourself and pick when ripe.
BAck in the stoner age of the ’60s, when BHA and BHT were reviled as “nasty chemicals that even bacteria wouldn’t eat”, the entire point of preservatives was lost in the hype. I remember a song by Grace Slick(of Jefferson Airplane) in which she pointed out,”,,,ummmm, preservatives may be preserving you. I,,,I think you might have missed that,,,”. Interesting that she knew of experiments in life extension in which those preservatives had a life extending effect, long before life extension became a new hype.
Grace Slick is still so “Hawt”,,,
,,Grace, say hi to Paul for me,,,
GAry 7
August 16th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
Infra–blue heat is the thermal radiation of green stars
My favorite examples of organic and all-natural substances have already been listed, but I’d like to add cobra venom, botulinum, and amanita muscaria. Oh, and Private Baldrick’s dinner recipes.
August 16th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
Under the common usage, I’m an “organic” gardener, since I use only compost for fertilizer and don’t use pesticides. I sure hope my compost has “chemicals” in it, because if my plants never got any chemicals, they wouldn’t be happy. Or alive.
August 17th, 2008 at 12:44 am
Nemo Says:
In a recent survey by a reputable psychic agency, the spirits of victims of black mamba bites, box jellyfish stings, improperly prepared fugu, and poison-arrow shootings were unanimous in their agreement with the above statement.
August 17th, 2008 at 6:11 am
The word “Nature”, or “Natural” is quite misunderstood. I hear it often enough most people describe things that are man made, as not natural . . . but is that the case?
We are after all beings of nature . . why would what we discover and produce be any less natural? Sure perhaps you could make a great argument for the elements on the periodic table that where built in a collider. I would agree. But everything else can be found else where, just because we can make more or it, to me would not all of a sudden make it not natural.
Very much the same thing with Chemistry . . . ITS EVERYWHERE AND EVERYTHING, there is nothing, even vacuum has chemistry, it would take only a single electron to pop out of the void for it to be so . . . . we know this happens . . . .
I love ignorance, it makes me giggle.
August 17th, 2008 at 9:11 am
Of course chemicals are bad. At least in advertizing. Anybody remember when DuPont dropped the last two words from their motto ‘Better things for better living (through chemistry)’?
August 17th, 2008 at 9:13 am
btw: Doesn’t the fuzz on peyote buttons have strychnine, or was that just an old hippie myth?
August 17th, 2008 at 10:58 am
A Restaurant near where i live had a menu with the text: Our food does not include chemical elements
August 17th, 2008 at 1:32 pm
Space cadet;
Yes!
Hippies myths are sometimes true,,,
Same thing goes for building things.
Dams by beavers are “natural”.
Dams by humans,,, “unnatural”.
Another example of double think,,,
GAry 7
August 17th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Sorry I have not yet read all the comments… so little time!
Anyhoo, I have sent a complaint to the Advertising Standards Agency about the way they handled this. Apparently, the reason they did nothing about the ad was that there is a “colloquial understanding” that when an advertiser says “chemicals” they mean “artificial chemicals”. However, I dispute this. I feel that failing to include the word “artificial” when you mean “artificial” is misleading. Plus, as I have pointed out to the ASA, some chemicals are both naturally-occurring and manufactured. A good example of this is ammonia, which humans make in large quantities by the Haber process, but it is most definitely naturally-occurring. Thus, the term “chemical” cannot possibly carry a meaningful connotation of artificiality.
Slightly OT, WRT “organic” food: All food is organic (i.e. it contains carbon). Except salt.
August 17th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
Ken B says -
“I’m pretty sure that Miracle Gro contains at least some Dihydrogen Monoxide, which is ingested when you eat the fruits/vegetables tainted with it, and which can be fatal if inhaled.”
What a cheap shot. I never took chemistry in school, but ran across a little instruction while training on a job. DHMO, that’s longhand verbal description of H2O, right?
Don
August 17th, 2008 at 10:31 pm
Slightly OT, but I had a “Whaa?” moment on the NZ news the other night. There was a story about a ‘ghost’ in a converted prison. Definitive proof was produced in the form of a blurry photograph. But what i really liked was the explanation of a ‘ghost-hunting camera’. “It floods the room with infra-red light”
Is that possible? I always though Infra-red was heat. So the camera would essentially be giving off heat? Can someone help me out?
August 18th, 2008 at 12:43 am
@ Richie
Infra-red is just a part of the electromagnetic spectrum (just on the outskirts of visible light) which covers all wavelengths from Radio to Gamma waves.
August 18th, 2008 at 12:49 am
@Don,
Yes.
August 18th, 2008 at 2:57 am
Every month, Wired Magazine publishes a page title “What’s Inside” with the breakout of what is in popular consumer products. It’s always an eye-opener!
This from the August 2008 issue:
What’s Inside: Stomach-Bubble-Bursting Mylanta Classic
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/magazine/16-08/st_mylanta
August 18th, 2008 at 6:43 am
Often in the local mall people try and sell me products with “no chemicals” in them.
I usually ask if they’re made out of some kind of non-baryonic matter.
They usually look confused.
August 18th, 2008 at 8:51 am
Siegmund Says:
A Restaurant near where i live had a menu with the text: Our food does not include chemical elements
Was that Arnie’s Holographic Buffet down on Figueroa Blvd? Man I love that place–all you can eat and you never gain weight.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:10 am
@Dave Hall
I tried that place, but I left feeling hungrier than when I went in. It’s all hype.
August 18th, 2008 at 9:32 am
Don, “dihydrogen monoxide” (aka DHMO) is a popular meme, mostly on the Internet. It is evoked whenever misunderstandings of terms like “chemical” get bandied about. It got its start from a science fair project in which a student created an anti-DHMO petition and got a lot of seemingly intelligent people to sign up to it. The point, of course, was that you can fearmonger successfully about anything as long as you dress it up with enough scary-sounding factoids, remove the normal context, and use a lot of big words. The experiment has been repeated on other occasions, sometimes as a science project but increasingly as a form of activism to try to raise awareness of the common “chemicals are dangerous” fallacy.
Regarding claims of no preservative or additives of any kind, that one’s even worse. It’s never true unless you’re buying something truly pure like distilled water. Of course there are preservatives. That’s why it’s not covered in mold. Salt and sugar are two of the most common preservatives; they’re perfectly natural, and they work just fine. (Of course, they’re also demonized quite unfairly, but that’s another rant.) And then there’s the whole “unprocessed foods” mantra. It’s like people don’t understand what the word “processed” means, and think it means some twisted evil process that squeezes all of the goodness out of foods, such that it needs to be replenished with pale, artificial imitations of the good factors. I mean seriously, do they think the nutrients fall out when the meat is ground up to make hot dogs or bologna? Good call to the person above who pointed out the “unprocessed bran” claim. That’s a good one.
August 18th, 2008 at 11:55 am
Calli Arcale:
“It’s like people don’t understand what the word “processed” means, and think it means some twisted evil process that squeezes all of the goodness out of foods, such that it needs to be replenished with pale, artificial imitations of the good factors.”
You do understand that this is exactly the process for creating Enriched [white] Flour, right? All the good bits in the germ and what not are removed during processing and then artificial nutrients are added. I care about the texture of my baked good, so I can appreciate why this is done. It just that, well, yeah, that’s actually what they do in some fairly common cases.
August 18th, 2008 at 1:05 pm
Why is the color of white bread so white when the flour taken from wheat is not?
It’s because the flour used to make white bread is chemically bleached, just like you bleach your clothes. So when you are eating white bread, you are also eating residual chemical bleach. Flour mills use different chemical bleaches, all of which are pretty bad. Here are a few of them: oxide of nitrogen, chlorine, chloride, nitrosyl and benzoyl peroxide mixed with various chemical salts.
August 18th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Sorry, madge,
IR covers wavelengths longer than visible red, typically 700 nm or longer. Gamma has shorter wavelengths and could be said to belong to the UV region (less than 400 nm). Maybe you meant microwaves?
Did anybody catch the new BK ads with the “meataterian?”