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	<title>Comments on: The beating heart of W5</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/22/the-beating-heart-of-w5/</link>
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		<title>By: firemancarl</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/22/the-beating-heart-of-w5/#comment-110105</link>
		<dc:creator>firemancarl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 00:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/22/the-beating-heart-of-w5/#comment-110105</guid>
		<description>So, despite all the batshit wackaloonery going on here... Phil surely this will end up on your Top 10 Photos of 2009???

I am more inclined to listen to someone with an OM than a poster on here who calls out the owner of the blog, who just happens to be a Phd and best seller.

But, WaddaIknow?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, despite all the batshit wackaloonery going on here&#8230; Phil surely this will end up on your Top 10 Photos of 2009???</p>
<p>I am more inclined to listen to someone with an OM than a poster on here who calls out the owner of the blog, who just happens to be a Phd and best seller.</p>
<p>But, WaddaIknow?</p>
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		<title>By: Contains Caffeine &#187; Happy Valentine&#8217;s Day!</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/22/the-beating-heart-of-w5/#comment-110104</link>
		<dc:creator>Contains Caffeine &#187; Happy Valentine&#8217;s Day!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 23:43:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/22/the-beating-heart-of-w5/#comment-110104</guid>
		<description>[...] Read more about it here. [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Read more about it here. [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Have a cosmic Valentine&#8217;s Day &#124; Bad Astronomy &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/22/the-beating-heart-of-w5/#comment-110103</link>
		<dc:creator>Have a cosmic Valentine&#8217;s Day &#124; Bad Astronomy &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 21:36:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/22/the-beating-heart-of-w5/#comment-110103</guid>
		<description>[...] For those of you with room for even more romance, learn more about this nebula here. [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] For those of you with room for even more romance, learn more about this nebula here. [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Torbjörn Larsson, OM</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/22/the-beating-heart-of-w5/#comment-110102</link>
		<dc:creator>Torbjörn Larsson, OM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 10:59:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/22/the-beating-heart-of-w5/#comment-110102</guid>
		<description>@ Nathan Myers:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Logic depends on facts.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

No, it is the other way around, facts and theories can usefully need logic to be constructed and tested.

But there ends the dependence. I find it curious indeed that people tries to assign static truth values to facts, as they are a dynamical property of the process of knowledge gathering. Facts and hypotheses doesn&#039;t have truth values; before observation respectively verification they are in degrees &quot;not known, possible, impossible, likely, unlikely&quot;, and after they are &quot;accepted, rejected&quot;. Formal logic comes up empty in describing this process.

&lt;blockquote&gt;
For Phil to call mere mention of details of these topics “antiscience” or “pseudoscience”, and to report them dishonestly, is trolling of the first order.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It is antiscience simply because you attack verified science without a factual basis. If anyone attacks verified science from a factual basis he is either a crank or, unlikely, correct - but a factually empty antiscientist is a fraud, &quot;not even wrong&quot;.

Btw, a poster can&#039;t troll, as he is responsible for answering on his post. A troll is &quot;a person who is deliberately inflammatory on the Internet in order to provoke a vehement response&quot;. Such as, say, yourself.

While Phil&#039;s intention is to enjoy himself, (obviously) present the science from his basis as a scientist, and keep a semblance of order on his blog. Which reasonably means keeping trolls short and, on a science blog, point out when people drags antiscience into it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Nathan Myers:</p>
<blockquote><p>
Logic depends on facts.
</p></blockquote>
<p>No, it is the other way around, facts and theories can usefully need logic to be constructed and tested.</p>
<p>But there ends the dependence. I find it curious indeed that people tries to assign static truth values to facts, as they are a dynamical property of the process of knowledge gathering. Facts and hypotheses doesn&#8217;t have truth values; before observation respectively verification they are in degrees &#8220;not known, possible, impossible, likely, unlikely&#8221;, and after they are &#8220;accepted, rejected&#8221;. Formal logic comes up empty in describing this process.</p>
<blockquote><p>
For Phil to call mere mention of details of these topics “antiscience” or “pseudoscience”, and to report them dishonestly, is trolling of the first order.
</p></blockquote>
<p>It is antiscience simply because you attack verified science without a factual basis. If anyone attacks verified science from a factual basis he is either a crank or, unlikely, correct &#8211; but a factually empty antiscientist is a fraud, &#8220;not even wrong&#8221;.</p>
<p>Btw, a poster can&#8217;t troll, as he is responsible for answering on his post. A troll is &#8220;a person who is deliberately inflammatory on the Internet in order to provoke a vehement response&#8221;. Such as, say, yourself.</p>
<p>While Phil&#8217;s intention is to enjoy himself, (obviously) present the science from his basis as a scientist, and keep a semblance of order on his blog. Which reasonably means keeping trolls short and, on a science blog, point out when people drags antiscience into it.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Hansen</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/22/the-beating-heart-of-w5/#comment-110101</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 09:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/22/the-beating-heart-of-w5/#comment-110101</guid>
		<description>Nathan, I could point out that you&#039;ve quite clearly missed the merde reference that IVAN3MAN made but why bother? You obviously are too lazy to check. Enjoy your trolling...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathan, I could point out that you&#8217;ve quite clearly missed the merde reference that IVAN3MAN made but why bother? You obviously are too lazy to check. Enjoy your trolling&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Myers</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/22/the-beating-heart-of-w5/#comment-110100</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 07:39:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/22/the-beating-heart-of-w5/#comment-110100</guid>
		<description>@Mark Hansen: It was Phil who first used the word &quot;proponent&quot;, not Arnold.  (I doubt Arnold knew it, before.)  My suggestion to MERDE! was for his education. Your notion that MERDE! refers to IVAN3MAN&#039;s state of mind is speculation that, in any case, has nothing to do with intelligence.  &quot;And speaking of intelligence&quot;, I feel entirely incapable of insulting yours, so no worries.

Which &quot;plasma &#039;work&#039;&quot; are you imagining?  Plasma fluid dynamics is a mature field.  Maxwell&#039;s electromagnetics is more than a century old.  For Phil to call mere mention of details of these topics &quot;antiscience&quot; or &quot;pseudoscience&quot;, and to report them dishonestly, is trolling of the first order.  To level random accusations at anyone who calls attention to such dishonesty compounds it.  Why not be part of the solution?  Learn, and educate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mark Hansen: It was Phil who first used the word &#8220;proponent&#8221;, not Arnold.  (I doubt Arnold knew it, before.)  My suggestion to MERDE! was for his education. Your notion that MERDE! refers to IVAN3MAN&#8217;s state of mind is speculation that, in any case, has nothing to do with intelligence.  &#8220;And speaking of intelligence&#8221;, I feel entirely incapable of insulting yours, so no worries.</p>
<p>Which &#8220;plasma &#8216;work&#8217;&#8221; are you imagining?  Plasma fluid dynamics is a mature field.  Maxwell&#8217;s electromagnetics is more than a century old.  For Phil to call mere mention of details of these topics &#8220;antiscience&#8221; or &#8220;pseudoscience&#8221;, and to report them dishonestly, is trolling of the first order.  To level random accusations at anyone who calls attention to such dishonesty compounds it.  Why not be part of the solution?  Learn, and educate.</p>
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		<title>By: lars</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/22/the-beating-heart-of-w5/#comment-110099</link>
		<dc:creator>lars</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:33:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/22/the-beating-heart-of-w5/#comment-110099</guid>
		<description>You made me look up the American Buddha on WP. Knowledge to me, kudos to you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You made me look up the American Buddha on WP. Knowledge to me, kudos to you.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Hansen</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/22/the-beating-heart-of-w5/#comment-110098</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Hansen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 17:04:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/22/the-beating-heart-of-w5/#comment-110098</guid>
		<description>*Sigh* I ought to know better but...

Nathan, it is the way you use the &quot;I&#039;m no scientist&quot;, &quot;Oh, an astronomer, then?&quot; phrasing. Please don&#039;t insult my intelligence by pretending it wasn&#039;t an insult. And speaking of intelligence, IVAN3MAN (yes, I am well aware that probably isn&#039;t on his driver&#039;s licence) used merde as an expression of frustration. Try looking it up; an online dictionary should be adequate. Here&#039;s another word to look up; troll. Beyond the definition of a mythical creature, you will find another that fits your behaviour here.
Oh, and you could match up comments to their authors a little better. I believe that it was Arnold Martin that used the word &quot;proponent&quot;. Sloppy work like that does you no credit. If your plasma &quot;work&quot; is as riddled with errors, it&#039;s going to be hard to get people to take you seriously.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*Sigh* I ought to know better but&#8230;</p>
<p>Nathan, it is the way you use the &#8220;I&#8217;m no scientist&#8221;, &#8220;Oh, an astronomer, then?&#8221; phrasing. Please don&#8217;t insult my intelligence by pretending it wasn&#8217;t an insult. And speaking of intelligence, IVAN3MAN (yes, I am well aware that probably isn&#8217;t on his driver&#8217;s licence) used merde as an expression of frustration. Try looking it up; an online dictionary should be adequate. Here&#8217;s another word to look up; troll. Beyond the definition of a mythical creature, you will find another that fits your behaviour here.<br />
Oh, and you could match up comments to their authors a little better. I believe that it was Arnold Martin that used the word &#8220;proponent&#8221;. Sloppy work like that does you no credit. If your plasma &#8220;work&#8221; is as riddled with errors, it&#8217;s going to be hard to get people to take you seriously.</p>
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		<title>By: Bobby Thomas</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/22/the-beating-heart-of-w5/#comment-110097</link>
		<dc:creator>Bobby Thomas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 02:44:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/22/the-beating-heart-of-w5/#comment-110097</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m curious.

What is this controversy that needs to be taught.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m curious.</p>
<p>What is this controversy that needs to be taught.</p>
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		<title>By: Star Stuff from the South &#124; Mike Brotherton: SF Writer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/22/the-beating-heart-of-w5/#comment-110096</link>
		<dc:creator>Star Stuff from the South &#124; Mike Brotherton: SF Writer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 01:51:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/22/the-beating-heart-of-w5/#comment-110096</guid>
		<description>[...] Totally worth it.  This is the star-forming region W5 as seen by the Spitzer Space Telescope. Phil Plait at Bad Astronomy has already discussed this cool image and result.  I just wanted to reiterate the science about how we&#8217;re seeing action [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Totally worth it.  This is the star-forming region W5 as seen by the Spitzer Space Telescope. Phil Plait at Bad Astronomy has already discussed this cool image and result.  I just wanted to reiterate the science about how we&#8217;re seeing action [...] </p>
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