Comments on: Video of NASA rocket failure http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/23/video-of-nasa-rocket-failure/ Wed, 21 Nov 2012 15:12:45 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.4.2 By: Torbjörn Larsson, OM http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/23/video-of-nasa-rocket-failure/#comment-110493 Torbjörn Larsson, OM Tue, 26 Aug 2008 18:54:47 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/23/video-of-nasa-rocket-failure/#comment-110493 @ Thomas Siefert: <blockquote> If you where to build a maglev catapult up the side of Mount Everest, you would have to do all your acceleration before you leave the mountain. </blockquote> Um, I wasn't arguing catapults, only commenting (or correcting) a comment. But to make another correction: abandoning The Chemists design criteria (no propellant), we can get around that as well. [Added at submit: this was also proposed in the thread,] Btw, if you want to maximize altitude change "to do all your acceleration" alone, shouldn't you sink a tube alongside the Hawaii island inclination? But I assume some of the design consideration goes into absolute altitude and absolute decreased air resistance, in which case your characterization of the system and its results is incomplete. @ Gary Ansorge: Thanks, that is interesting. Maybe I <i>should</i> argue catapults, if they are so feasible. @ Thomas Siefert:

If you where to build a maglev catapult up the side of Mount Everest, you would have to do all your acceleration before you leave the mountain.

Um, I wasn’t arguing catapults, only commenting (or correcting) a comment. But to make another correction: abandoning The Chemists design criteria (no propellant), we can get around that as well. [Added at submit: this was also proposed in the thread,]

Btw, if you want to maximize altitude change “to do all your acceleration” alone, shouldn’t you sink a tube alongside the Hawaii island inclination? But I assume some of the design consideration goes into absolute altitude and absolute decreased air resistance, in which case your characterization of the system and its results is incomplete.

@ Gary Ansorge:

Thanks, that is interesting. Maybe I should argue catapults, if they are so feasible.

]]> By: August: A Lousy Month for Space Exploration | Discoblog | Discover Magazine http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/23/video-of-nasa-rocket-failure/#comment-110492 August: A Lousy Month for Space Exploration | Discoblog | Discover Magazine Mon, 25 Aug 2008 17:33:24 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/23/video-of-nasa-rocket-failure/#comment-110492 [...] 21: More than two miles up, a NASA rocket begins to veer off course, causing alarmed mission controllers to hit the abort button in case the stray rocket endangered [...] [...] 21: More than two miles up, a NASA rocket begins to veer off course, causing alarmed mission controllers to hit the abort button in case the stray rocket endangered [...]

]]> By: Dave Hall http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/23/video-of-nasa-rocket-failure/#comment-110491 Dave Hall Mon, 25 Aug 2008 16:11:02 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/23/video-of-nasa-rocket-failure/#comment-110491 Its a matter of timing--Edison was most prolific between about 1876 and 1890, although he kept pretty busy until he died in the 1930s. Sarnoff was at his peak with RCA and RKO from about 1919 through the late 1960s. Guess there is one for every generation or so. Its a matter of timing–Edison was most prolific between about 1876 and 1890, although he kept pretty busy until he died in the 1930s.
Sarnoff was at his peak with RCA and RKO from about 1919 through the late 1960s.
Guess there is one for every generation or so.

]]> By: Dave Hall http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/23/video-of-nasa-rocket-failure/#comment-110490 Dave Hall Mon, 25 Aug 2008 15:59:37 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/23/video-of-nasa-rocket-failure/#comment-110490 Moral: Bill Gates ain't so special after all:) Moral: Bill Gates ain’t so special after all:)

]]> By: Charles http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/23/video-of-nasa-rocket-failure/#comment-110489 Charles Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:32:31 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/23/video-of-nasa-rocket-failure/#comment-110489 "Edison was one of the greatest when it came to getting inventions out to the public. He was the Bill Gates of his day" I would say that David Sarnoff was the Bill Gates of his day, considering he created the RCA radio monopoly and nearly did the same for television but was interrupted by WWII. People to this day think Marconi invented radio, and that Zworykin invented electronic television (surely news to Tesla and to Farnsworth, considering they held the radio and electronic TV patents respectively) and those misconceptions came from Sarnoff and RCA's marketing arm. “Edison was one of the greatest when it came to getting inventions out to the public. He was the Bill Gates of his day”

I would say that David Sarnoff was the Bill Gates of his day, considering he created the RCA radio monopoly and nearly did the same for television but was interrupted by WWII. People to this day think Marconi invented radio, and that Zworykin invented electronic television (surely news to Tesla and to Farnsworth, considering they held the radio and electronic TV patents respectively) and those misconceptions came from Sarnoff and RCA’s marketing arm.

]]> By: Rob http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/23/video-of-nasa-rocket-failure/#comment-110488 Rob Mon, 25 Aug 2008 14:25:31 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/23/video-of-nasa-rocket-failure/#comment-110488 <blockquote>TomR Says: August 23rd, 2008 at 5:37 pm Why, was breaking in half and falling flaming into the ocean not part of the plan?</blockquote> From <a href="http://www.universetoday.com/2008/08/23/video-of-nasaatk-rocket-failur/" rel="nofollow">the Universe Today</a> link: <blockquote>The rocket's planned flight wouldn't have taken it into orbit and was set to last about 11 minutes, with the rocket coming down far out in the Atlantic Ocean, said Bryce Hallowell, an ATK spokesman.</blockquote> So, it was supposed to <i>stay in one piece</i> and fall flaming into the ocean.

TomR Says:
August 23rd, 2008 at 5:37 pm

Why, was breaking in half and falling flaming into the ocean not part of the plan?

From the Universe Today link:

The rocket’s planned flight wouldn’t have taken it into orbit and was set to last about 11 minutes, with the rocket coming down far out in the Atlantic Ocean, said Bryce Hallowell, an ATK spokesman.

So, it was supposed to stay in one piece and fall flaming into the ocean.

]]> By: Johnny Vector http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/23/video-of-nasa-rocket-failure/#comment-110487 Johnny Vector Mon, 25 Aug 2008 11:59:39 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/23/video-of-nasa-rocket-failure/#comment-110487 There are a lot of sparkly bits in the exhaust plume early on. I don't think that's good. To my eye, it looks very similar to what we saw on the launch of Astro-E on a Japanese M-V back in ought-thousand. In that case it was bits of the graphite nozzle lining coming out. Which then allows the hot gasses to burn through the nozzle and take out the control system, causing the rocket to go off course. I wonder if something like that happened here. There are a lot of sparkly bits in the exhaust plume early on. I don’t think that’s good. To my eye, it looks very similar to what we saw on the launch of Astro-E on a Japanese M-V back in ought-thousand. In that case it was bits of the graphite nozzle lining coming out. Which then allows the hot gasses to burn through the nozzle and take out the control system, causing the rocket to go off course. I wonder if something like that happened here.

]]> By: Dave Hall http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/23/video-of-nasa-rocket-failure/#comment-110486 Dave Hall Mon, 25 Aug 2008 07:29:47 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/23/video-of-nasa-rocket-failure/#comment-110486 Jack Hagerty Says: "Amazing. Phil posts a video of a failed rocket launch, and it turns into an anti-Bush, anti-oil, anti-Iraq, anti-business (Edison) gripefest. All in less than 40 posts!" Where? I saw the Edison comments, backed up with names and dates. But hardly a gripefest. I mentioned our country's need for decent accounting to take care of our tax dollars. Now I happen to believe we were right to take Saddam Husein out--after all the US put him there and provided him with weapons to fight a war with Iran. Who was anti-oil? Did anyone mention Bush? I must have missed those posts. And anti-business? Edison was one of the greatest when it came to getting inventions out to the public. He was the Bill Gates of his day--okay I'll grant that one. So where was the "anti-Bush, anti-oil, anti-Iraq, anti-business gripefest? Are we being a little hypersensitive? Remember: they can only get your goat if your goat is out to get got. Jack Hagerty Says:
“Amazing. Phil posts a video of a failed rocket launch, and it turns into an anti-Bush, anti-oil, anti-Iraq, anti-business (Edison) gripefest. All in less than 40 posts!”

Where? I saw the Edison comments, backed up with names and dates. But hardly a gripefest. I mentioned our country’s need for decent accounting to take care of our tax dollars. Now I happen to believe we were right to take Saddam Husein out–after all the US put him there and provided him with weapons to fight a war with Iran. Who was anti-oil? Did anyone mention Bush? I must have missed those posts. And anti-business? Edison was one of the greatest when it came to getting inventions out to the public. He was the Bill Gates of his day–okay I’ll grant that one.

So where was the “anti-Bush, anti-oil, anti-Iraq, anti-business gripefest? Are we being a little hypersensitive?

Remember: they can only get your goat if your goat is out to get got.

]]> By: Dave Hall http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/23/video-of-nasa-rocket-failure/#comment-110485 Dave Hall Mon, 25 Aug 2008 07:05:38 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/23/video-of-nasa-rocket-failure/#comment-110485 Daniel Says: All Im asking is for them to do it right and quit horse playing. Putting 17(?) million in payload on an unproven rocket system is asking for trouble. We didnt put Alan Shepard on the first Mercury rocket(i know…apples and oranges…but still). Technically there was no "Mercury rocket." The Mercury spacecraft used for manned flights were set atop either Redstone Ballistic vehicles or Atlas ICBM vehicles. Here is something to chew on with those apples and oranges: The Redstones flew from 1953 to 1967. 100 launches--47 failures. Shepard and Grissom each rode one of the successful ones. The Atlas fared somewhat better From 1948 to 2004, there were 585 Launches and only 120 failures. Glenn, Carpenter, Schirra and Cooper flew Mercury/Atlas. Almost all of our pre-shuttle era satellites made it into orbit thanks to Atlas. Now, if we and the Soviets had ever started pushing the red buttons, there would have been a lot more Atlas launches, as they were the mainstay of the American nuclear missile program. Daniel Says:
All Im asking is for them to do it right and quit horse playing. Putting 17(?) million in payload on an unproven rocket system is asking for trouble. We didnt put Alan Shepard on the first Mercury rocket(i know…apples and oranges…but still).

Technically there was no “Mercury rocket.” The Mercury spacecraft used for manned flights were set atop either Redstone Ballistic vehicles or Atlas ICBM vehicles.

Here is something to chew on with those apples and oranges:

The Redstones flew from 1953 to 1967. 100 launches–47 failures. Shepard and Grissom each rode one of the successful ones.

The Atlas fared somewhat better From 1948 to 2004, there were 585 Launches and only 120 failures. Glenn, Carpenter, Schirra and Cooper flew Mercury/Atlas. Almost all of our pre-shuttle era satellites made it into orbit thanks to Atlas.
Now, if we and the Soviets had ever started pushing the red buttons, there would have been a lot more Atlas launches, as they were the mainstay of the American nuclear missile program.

]]> By: Daniel http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/23/video-of-nasa-rocket-failure/#comment-110484 Daniel Mon, 25 Aug 2008 06:54:32 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/23/video-of-nasa-rocket-failure/#comment-110484 @Sir Yea i dont expect NASA to put a 17 million payload on the shuttle. I want them to improve and work on their new system first(Launch it at least 5-6 times without fail). THEN put a payload on it, and let "rocket science" do the rest ;) @Sir
Yea i dont expect NASA to put a 17 million payload on the shuttle. I want them to improve and work on their new system first(Launch it at least 5-6 times without fail). THEN put a payload on it, and let “rocket science” do the rest ;)

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