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	<title>Comments on: Massive monster in the far reaches</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/25/massive-monster-in-the-far-reaches/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/25/massive-monster-in-the-far-reaches/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 04:11:56 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: psychegram</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/25/massive-monster-in-the-far-reaches/comment-page-2/#comment-212817</link>
		<dc:creator>psychegram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Sep 2009 19:03:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/25/massive-monster-in-the-far-reaches/#comment-212817</guid>
		<description>Hahaha oh, this is rich. I&#039;ve been going through the comment strings on this blog, and my, my, the depth of ignorance, it is special. You know, in fifty years, when the dominance of EM force at large scales is entirely uncontroversial, you all are going to look like the priests of the Catholic church back in Galileo&#039;s day....

Oh, and for the record: I&#039;m an astronomy grad student. Just started, so unlike certain others here and in the wider community, I don&#039;t have all my eggs in a basket woven of imaginary dark matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hahaha oh, this is rich. I&#8217;ve been going through the comment strings on this blog, and my, my, the depth of ignorance, it is special. You know, in fifty years, when the dominance of EM force at large scales is entirely uncontroversial, you all are going to look like the priests of the Catholic church back in Galileo&#8217;s day&#8230;.</p>
<p>Oh, and for the record: I&#8217;m an astronomy grad student. Just started, so unlike certain others here and in the wider community, I don&#8217;t have all my eggs in a basket woven of imaginary dark matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Davidlpf</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/25/massive-monster-in-the-far-reaches/comment-page-2/#comment-115109</link>
		<dc:creator>Davidlpf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 01:03:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/25/massive-monster-in-the-far-reaches/#comment-115109</guid>
		<description>nathan
pot meet kettle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>nathan<br />
pot meet kettle.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Myers</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/25/massive-monster-in-the-far-reaches/comment-page-2/#comment-115108</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 00:58:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/25/massive-monster-in-the-far-reaches/#comment-115108</guid>
		<description>Torbjörn: So, more name-calling, then.  Too much truthfulness would be harmful, I suppose.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Torbjörn: So, more name-calling, then.  Too much truthfulness would be harmful, I suppose.</p>
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		<title>By: Torbjörn Larsson, OM</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/25/massive-monster-in-the-far-reaches/comment-page-2/#comment-114975</link>
		<dc:creator>Torbjörn Larsson, OM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 21:44:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/25/massive-monster-in-the-far-reaches/#comment-114975</guid>
		<description>@ Nathan Myers:

&lt;blockquote&gt;
In fact, interesting spectra have been published, 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So why can&#039;t you leave references? 

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Name-calling aside,
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Sorry, no - an identification of what you argue for, denial of verified phenomena like gas behavior.

&lt;blockquote&gt;
your argument is that since astronomers refuse to discuss any detail of any alternative to Gravity-Only-Universe, every failure of GOU counts as positive evidence for the only models (GOU+epsilon, GOU+DM/DE) that they are willing to discuss. 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don&#039;t know what you think the standard cosmology and standard particle physics is, but there are more forces than gravity. The remainder of your argument doesn&#039;t describe any of my comments. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Scientists are interested in, you know, observations, particularly the ones that don’t match expectations. 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes, I would know. And again, that doesn&#039;t change that scientists aren&#039;t interested in &#039;answering&#039; them by question stoppers. The reason that scientists wants tests of theories is because they &lt;i&gt;have&lt;/i&gt; predictive theories. Which, you should know, scientists are interested in.

And I note that you consistently refuse to describe your purported &quot;observations, particularly the ones that don’t match expectations&quot;. Instead you continue to describe purported &#039;explanations&#039;. It&#039;s the cart before the horse, in typical denialist fashion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Nathan Myers:</p>
<blockquote><p>
In fact, interesting spectra have been published,
</p></blockquote>
<p>So why can&#8217;t you leave references? </p>
<blockquote><p>
Name-calling aside,
</p></blockquote>
<p>Sorry, no &#8211; an identification of what you argue for, denial of verified phenomena like gas behavior.</p>
<blockquote><p>
your argument is that since astronomers refuse to discuss any detail of any alternative to Gravity-Only-Universe, every failure of GOU counts as positive evidence for the only models (GOU+epsilon, GOU+DM/DE) that they are willing to discuss.
</p></blockquote>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what you think the standard cosmology and standard particle physics is, but there are more forces than gravity. The remainder of your argument doesn&#8217;t describe any of my comments. </p>
<blockquote><p>
Scientists are interested in, you know, observations, particularly the ones that don’t match expectations.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, I would know. And again, that doesn&#8217;t change that scientists aren&#8217;t interested in &#8216;answering&#8217; them by question stoppers. The reason that scientists wants tests of theories is because they <i>have</i> predictive theories. Which, you should know, scientists are interested in.</p>
<p>And I note that you consistently refuse to describe your purported &#8220;observations, particularly the ones that don’t match expectations&#8221;. Instead you continue to describe purported &#8216;explanations&#8217;. It&#8217;s the cart before the horse, in typical denialist fashion.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Myers</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/25/massive-monster-in-the-far-reaches/comment-page-2/#comment-114972</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Sep 2008 20:59:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/25/massive-monster-in-the-far-reaches/#comment-114972</guid>
		<description>Davidlpf: Are you equipped to calculate how much local imbalance between charges is needed to overcome all this added-up gravity?  A millionth?  A million-millionth?  A million-million-millionth? (You&#039;ll get there if you keep at it.)  The first problem of not-only-gravity astrophysics is gravity-only wishful thinking -- or parroting, in some cases.  How are those calculations coming along?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Davidlpf: Are you equipped to calculate how much local imbalance between charges is needed to overcome all this added-up gravity?  A millionth?  A million-millionth?  A million-million-millionth? (You&#8217;ll get there if you keep at it.)  The first problem of not-only-gravity astrophysics is gravity-only wishful thinking &#8212; or parroting, in some cases.  How are those calculations coming along?</p>
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		<title>By: Davidlpf</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/25/massive-monster-in-the-far-reaches/comment-page-2/#comment-114867</link>
		<dc:creator>Davidlpf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 20:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/25/massive-monster-in-the-far-reaches/#comment-114867</guid>
		<description>First problem Electric universe theories and plasma theories have is that the charge on the electron and the charge on the proton cancel out but the masses do not so mass adds up faster and charges net sum is zero.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First problem Electric universe theories and plasma theories have is that the charge on the electron and the charge on the proton cancel out but the masses do not so mass adds up faster and charges net sum is zero.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan Myers</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/25/massive-monster-in-the-far-reaches/comment-page-2/#comment-114866</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Myers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Aug 2008 20:14:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/25/massive-monster-in-the-far-reaches/#comment-114866</guid>
		<description>@Torbjörn: It is most magnanimous of you to be truthful.  In fact, interesting spectra have been published, but are never cited.  Name-calling aside, your argument is that since astronomers refuse to discuss any detail of any alternative to Gravity-Only-Universe, every failure of GOU counts as positive evidence for the only models (GOU+epsilon, GOU+DM/DE) that they &lt;i&gt;are&lt;/i&gt; willing to discuss. That may be what &quot;astronomers &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/i&gt;&quot;, but it does not match my experience of scientists.  

Scientists are interested in, you know, observations, &lt;i&gt;particularly&lt;/i&gt; the ones that don&#039;t match expectations. They don&#039;t assume as established fact the previous generation&#039;s idle speculations. A healthy branch of science responds to uncertainty by entertaining multiple hypotheses, and by questioning untested assumptions.  Maybe some future generation of astronomers will come around.  In the meantime, the present observations are (more or less) safely archived for that future generation&#039;s use.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Torbjörn: It is most magnanimous of you to be truthful.  In fact, interesting spectra have been published, but are never cited.  Name-calling aside, your argument is that since astronomers refuse to discuss any detail of any alternative to Gravity-Only-Universe, every failure of GOU counts as positive evidence for the only models (GOU+epsilon, GOU+DM/DE) that they <i>are</i> willing to discuss. That may be what &#8220;astronomers <i>do</i>&#8220;, but it does not match my experience of scientists.  </p>
<p>Scientists are interested in, you know, observations, <i>particularly</i> the ones that don&#8217;t match expectations. They don&#8217;t assume as established fact the previous generation&#8217;s idle speculations. A healthy branch of science responds to uncertainty by entertaining multiple hypotheses, and by questioning untested assumptions.  Maybe some future generation of astronomers will come around.  In the meantime, the present observations are (more or less) safely archived for that future generation&#8217;s use.</p>
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