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	<title>Comments on: Galapagos Wrapup</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/26/galapagos-wrapup/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/26/galapagos-wrapup/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
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		<title>By: Petty. Me. Uk. &#187; Geek Bonfire Burny Burny Fun Time</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/26/galapagos-wrapup/comment-page-1/#comment-115817</link>
		<dc:creator>Petty. Me. Uk. &#187; Geek Bonfire Burny Burny Fun Time</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 17:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/26/galapagos-wrapup/#comment-115817</guid>
		<description>[...] other day, and it turns out A is a friend of Phil Plait, and was lucky enough to be on the recent Galapagos trip. It was fascinating hearing about that, especially the sea [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] other day, and it turns out A is a friend of Phil Plait, and was lucky enough to be on the recent Galapagos trip. It was fascinating hearing about that, especially the sea [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Bob Hankey</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/26/galapagos-wrapup/comment-page-1/#comment-115126</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Bob Hankey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Sep 2008 02:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/26/galapagos-wrapup/#comment-115126</guid>
		<description>Mmmm...Iguana...My favorite...*gurgle gurgle gurgle*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mmmm&#8230;Iguana&#8230;My favorite&#8230;*gurgle gurgle gurgle*</p>
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		<title>By: Freddy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/26/galapagos-wrapup/comment-page-1/#comment-114807</link>
		<dc:creator>Freddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 21:15:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/26/galapagos-wrapup/#comment-114807</guid>
		<description>Phil, I hope you realize that the painted line on the ground is not the &quot;real equator&quot;. The actual equator is some 2 miles north of where you were.

Great picture of the marine iguana, a species unique to the Galapagos. I don&#039;t think they&#039;re related to the &quot;kimono&quot; dragons...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil, I hope you realize that the painted line on the ground is not the &#8220;real equator&#8221;. The actual equator is some 2 miles north of where you were.</p>
<p>Great picture of the marine iguana, a species unique to the Galapagos. I don&#8217;t think they&#8217;re related to the &#8220;kimono&#8221; dragons&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/26/galapagos-wrapup/comment-page-1/#comment-114777</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:56:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/26/galapagos-wrapup/#comment-114777</guid>
		<description>RE:  &quot;I also highly recommend reading PZ’s transcription of a short speech he made on the cruise about Darwin. It made me appreciate what Darwin did a lot more. I plan on reading On the Origin of Species very soon, in fact, now that I’ve seen from where these ideas came.&quot;

COMMENT:  Darwin&#039;s ideas about evolution were hardly new by the time he got to writing about them -- PZ&#039;s remarks (provided by a link above) elude to this.  Decades earlier others made essentially the same observations &amp; drew comparable conclusions, though they lacked the data to conclusively determine how changes in species occurred.  Notable [but not exclusive] in this regard was the Surgeon/Anatomist John Hunter who as early as 1767 made similar observations regarding a discovered Mastodon tooth/teeth and by 1793, with a huge reference collection of human &amp; animal anatomy (still preserved), when he died, was in the process of writing similar [heretical, for the time] views about evolution.  In his portrait he purposefully selected as one of the background items a notepage portraying the evolutionary progression of skulls (for example), that was some 50 years before Darwin developed, much less published, his culmination effort.  (John Hunter &amp; his home, incidentally, is believed to be the model from which Robert Louis Stevenson patterned his Dr Jekyll &amp; Mr. Hyde character)  

Some people (e.g. Owen) recognized the patterns Hunter &amp; others (including Darwin, decades later) documented, but could not shake their religious handicap &amp; objected to &#039;evolutionary&#039; explanations by insisting this was evidence of a Divine plan; even such academic-theological resistance highlighted the fundamental issues &amp; inspired further study.  

Thus, the development of the theory of evolution/natural selection was, in a sense, a &quot;team effort&quot; as is typical of major developments in most professions/fields. 

This is not meant to demean Darwin so much as put his contribution in proper perspective -- he built on the work of many others and his contribution wasn&#039;t so much innovative as was the culmination of much work by many before him (and unlike many of his predecessor who were heroically outspoken regarding such a heretical conpet as &#039;evolution&#039; [or whatever they referred to it as], Darwin withheld from publication his findings for a decade).   Disregarding them is analogous to [the non-historical scenario, I hope] in which S. Hawking were credited in the not too distant future for the theory of relativity, black holes, etc. because his publications remained widely published &amp; known while others like Einstein, etc. were ignored/overlooked.   

Unfortunately, this pattern of disregarding those that incrementally established the foundation &amp; idolizing those that reached some &quot;finish line&quot; is very common.  Who can name the engineers that made the Wright Brother&#039;s aircraft succeed; or, name the engineers that invented &amp; made Henry Ford&#039;s modern assembly line work; or, name the physicists &amp; engineers that made Von Braun&#039;s rocket visions a reality, etc????

Let&#039;s be sure to give Darwin his due recognition--but only his due and no more.  If for no other [selfish] reason that doing otherwise distorts &amp; undermines our understanding of &amp; appreciation for the history we admire.  Historical reality is far more interesting than [inadvertently] invented myths.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RE:  &#8220;I also highly recommend reading PZ’s transcription of a short speech he made on the cruise about Darwin. It made me appreciate what Darwin did a lot more. I plan on reading On the Origin of Species very soon, in fact, now that I’ve seen from where these ideas came.&#8221;</p>
<p>COMMENT:  Darwin&#8217;s ideas about evolution were hardly new by the time he got to writing about them &#8212; PZ&#8217;s remarks (provided by a link above) elude to this.  Decades earlier others made essentially the same observations &#038; drew comparable conclusions, though they lacked the data to conclusively determine how changes in species occurred.  Notable [but not exclusive] in this regard was the Surgeon/Anatomist John Hunter who as early as 1767 made similar observations regarding a discovered Mastodon tooth/teeth and by 1793, with a huge reference collection of human &#038; animal anatomy (still preserved), when he died, was in the process of writing similar [heretical, for the time] views about evolution.  In his portrait he purposefully selected as one of the background items a notepage portraying the evolutionary progression of skulls (for example), that was some 50 years before Darwin developed, much less published, his culmination effort.  (John Hunter &#038; his home, incidentally, is believed to be the model from which Robert Louis Stevenson patterned his Dr Jekyll &#038; Mr. Hyde character)  </p>
<p>Some people (e.g. Owen) recognized the patterns Hunter &#038; others (including Darwin, decades later) documented, but could not shake their religious handicap &#038; objected to &#8216;evolutionary&#8217; explanations by insisting this was evidence of a Divine plan; even such academic-theological resistance highlighted the fundamental issues &#038; inspired further study.  </p>
<p>Thus, the development of the theory of evolution/natural selection was, in a sense, a &#8220;team effort&#8221; as is typical of major developments in most professions/fields. </p>
<p>This is not meant to demean Darwin so much as put his contribution in proper perspective &#8212; he built on the work of many others and his contribution wasn&#8217;t so much innovative as was the culmination of much work by many before him (and unlike many of his predecessor who were heroically outspoken regarding such a heretical conpet as &#8216;evolution&#8217; [or whatever they referred to it as], Darwin withheld from publication his findings for a decade).   Disregarding them is analogous to [the non-historical scenario, I hope] in which S. Hawking were credited in the not too distant future for the theory of relativity, black holes, etc. because his publications remained widely published &#038; known while others like Einstein, etc. were ignored/overlooked.   </p>
<p>Unfortunately, this pattern of disregarding those that incrementally established the foundation &#038; idolizing those that reached some &#8220;finish line&#8221; is very common.  Who can name the engineers that made the Wright Brother&#8217;s aircraft succeed; or, name the engineers that invented &#038; made Henry Ford&#8217;s modern assembly line work; or, name the physicists &#038; engineers that made Von Braun&#8217;s rocket visions a reality, etc????</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s be sure to give Darwin his due recognition&#8211;but only his due and no more.  If for no other [selfish] reason that doing otherwise distorts &#038; undermines our understanding of &#038; appreciation for the history we admire.  Historical reality is far more interesting than [inadvertently] invented myths.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Ansorge</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/26/galapagos-wrapup/comment-page-1/#comment-114629</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Ansorge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:59:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/26/galapagos-wrapup/#comment-114629</guid>
		<description>Kimono Dragon: What you have when your Kimono is to dang long,,,

President Phil: Could also be P^2,,,

Gary 7</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kimono Dragon: What you have when your Kimono is to dang long,,,</p>
<p>President Phil: Could also be P^2,,,</p>
<p>Gary 7</p>
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		<title>By: Chatty Cabbie</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/26/galapagos-wrapup/comment-page-1/#comment-114622</link>
		<dc:creator>Chatty Cabbie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:42:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/26/galapagos-wrapup/#comment-114622</guid>
		<description>You may want to read The Voyage of the Beagle, especially chapter 18.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You may want to read The Voyage of the Beagle, especially chapter 18.</p>
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		<title>By: aleph1=c</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/26/galapagos-wrapup/comment-page-1/#comment-114499</link>
		<dc:creator>aleph1=c</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 21:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/08/26/galapagos-wrapup/#comment-114499</guid>
		<description>I meant Shane, not Peter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I meant Shane, not Peter.</p>
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