Ah, schadenfreude. What would we do without you?
Well, we wouldn’t have Wordsplosion, a site that is a paean to bad grammar and spelling.
Mrs. BA is a grammar Nazi — which was very helpful when I was writing my book — and it makes her crazy when she sees signs advertising "strawberrie’s for sale" (true). I remember one that was put out every year in October that said "Pumkins’ for sale". For some reason that always cracked me up.
Wordsplosion is now in my feed reader. "Cauliflower is sold by the each." Awesome.
September 13th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
Funny stuff! That kind of thing bugs me too. All those misplaced apostrophes and switching of there and their!
Rich
September 13th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
Have your wife read “The Language Instinct” by Steven Pinker. If she’s one of those “don’t split infinitive” types, it’ll do her some good (i.e. to boldly split infinitives is perfectly grammatical in English, the proclamations of self-appointed grammar Nazi’s notwithstanding).
September 13th, 2008 at 9:24 pm
Phil, I don’t know if you’d want to post this, but I just listened to the podcast of August 29th’s Science Friday. They had a segment concerning anti-vaxers and such. They had as a guest Paul Offit, chief of the Division of Infectious Diseases at the Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia. An anti-vax parent called in and there was a lively, but well managed discussion. Dr. Offit had excellent responses to everything the parent challenged him with. You can check it out here:
http://preview.tinyurl.com/6etfdk
September 13th, 2008 at 9:27 pm
Ahhh, sweet! I love websites like that.
I’m a fan of engrish.com
This is sorta like engrish problems… But by non-asians! Awesome!
September 13th, 2008 at 9:28 pm
Mrs. BA, I can relate! The other day I saw a sign with a word spelled correctly the first time it was used and incorrectly the second!
September 13th, 2008 at 9:40 pm
Hilarious; and that’s the funniest case of tag-war I’ve ever seen, btw. I didn’t think there were grammar-nazis under the taggers…
and I’ll have to admit I’m a spelling and grammar-nazi too, but I boldly split my infinitives. That may be because I’ve learned a good chunk of my English from Star Trek, though…
September 13th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
funny that somebody married to a word nazi doe not know what irony means.(yes I am making fun of Mr Myers.)
September 13th, 2008 at 9:51 pm
But, I’m only selling 1 strawberry.
September 13th, 2008 at 9:59 pm
In an word… thats awsum! Their you go Mrs BA!
September 13th, 2008 at 10:05 pm
not one of your better blogs
September 13th, 2008 at 10:08 pm
I’m amazed at how often I get called a “grammar Nazi” by people who ONLY talk in “intrnet sp33k”. You know, the whole “your vs. you’re” kind of stuff. I’m amazed that people who surely had days and days of elementary school classes devoted to memorizing the most basic spelling and language skills find it Ok to criticize me for pointing out how inexcusable that is for anyone over the age of 10. I mean I’m no English major; my sentences are usually way too long and not perfectly formed by any means.
Surely it can’t be laziness, as they always pretend. The claim that it “takes too long to think about so I just type stuff, you’ll know what I mean” just doesn’t hold water with me. Am I wrong for expecting so little from people so old?
September 13th, 2008 at 10:12 pm
Is my homskooling showing?
September 13th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
No Michael L but your fly is down.
September 13th, 2008 at 10:41 pm
“WIENER PIGS”
Posted by at least three different farms on the way to my brother’s house a few years back.
I suspect they meant “weaner”.
Over at BAUT, of course, we have Gillianren. Who is no Nazi, but does keep us on our toes.
September 13th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
When I was younger I was a bit prone to odd repetitions I was, as well as some excessive rhetoric in my writing, but these days I try to eschew obfuscation.
(Except for an occasional relapse.)
September 13th, 2008 at 10:47 pm
Well, John, that has to be true for one half of all posts, right?
But golly, thanks for the input.
September 13th, 2008 at 10:57 pm
[...] die where? Phil Plait just linked to Wordsplosion and I’m addicted [...]
September 13th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
http://wordsplosion.com/he-die-for-you-in-a-croos/
Now I’m hooked. He die for you in a croos!
September 13th, 2008 at 11:09 pm
I think we should save the words “quickly” and “fewer”.
I wonder if this would help children with certain homophones:
With an ear you hear.
If you’re not here you’re there.
September 13th, 2008 at 11:19 pm
As I stated in the comments on the site, each is a base unit in inventory control. That sign is technically correct although it may not be good for public consumption.
September 13th, 2008 at 11:29 pm
Perhaps “Pumpkins” is the proper name of something they’re selling, like a dog, and the apostrophe represents a contraction of “is”. I don’t recall where I read it, but someone listed the three common uses of apostrophes:
1) To indicate a possessive
2) To indicate missing letters in a contraction
3) Look out! Here comes an “s”!
September 13th, 2008 at 11:46 pm
Tom RE: “I think we should save the words “quickly” and “fewer”.”
Oh definitely! the “10 items or less” drives me batty! 10 is a number, not an amount
Another one that annoys me is the “overcorrect” use of “Julie and I”, as in “My dad drove Julie and I to the store”. It’s “Julie and me”. Me. MEEEEEE!!!!!
Grammar seems to be generally lost on most native English speakers… I wonder if it’s because there’s so little of it, compared to other languages?
September 13th, 2008 at 11:48 pm
DavidLpf:
Actually I’m not wearing any pants… I never wear pants while I read Phil’s blog.
September 14th, 2008 at 12:11 am
I just submitted a tattoo parlor sign near my house to them!
September 14th, 2008 at 1:14 am
Thanks for sharing mike, I guess I had that coming.
September 14th, 2008 at 1:27 am
Thanks for the recommendation – I love sites like this (e.g engrish.com and the defunct (?) TEAL site). I’ve taken a few – of the shocking cellphone quality type – photos of weird English signs myself –> http://www.tempyra.com/?p=258
September 14th, 2008 at 2:12 am
LOL @ Davidlpf,
Well you opened the door, and I just walked on in!
September 14th, 2008 at 2:23 am
Anyone see an RSS feed for this site? Phil says it’s in his feed reader now but I couldn’t see one!
Cheers
September 14th, 2008 at 2:36 am
I suspect that’s because the connection between spelling and pronunciation is so tenuous in English. I know of no other language which has “spelling bees”.
It’s strange. I’m not aq native speaker, and language certainly isn’t my main strength, and yet my mostly “instinctual” (yes, I know that instincts are actually something different, it’s just a figure of speech here) grasp of these things seem significantly better than the average native speaker’s.
On the other hand, there are some things I just refuse to do, such as putting two spaces after a sentence, or putting the comma before the closing quote. That just feels wrong.
September 14th, 2008 at 2:40 am
Hah! No spelling flame without a spelling misteak – old rule on the Internet …
I feel compelled to add: the thing about splitting infinitives isn’t a grammar nazi thing: the grammar is perfectly fine. It’s a style nazi thing. Which is a much more dubious proposition.
September 14th, 2008 at 3:31 am
I sometimes wish we had international and federal laws on the usage of bad grammar. Then all the commenters on YouTube will be in court (of justice).
September 14th, 2008 at 3:44 am
Here in the UK those “strawberrie’s” would be an example of what is known as the Greengrocer’s Apostrophe (no matter what the trade of the perpetrator).
The ‘split infinitive’ nonsense came about because in Latin it is impossible to split an infinitive — it’s a single word. So English grammarians thought it should not be split in English… It’s usually more elegant stylistically, to not split (ooh!) an English infinitive.
September 14th, 2008 at 4:17 am
when we first moved to the UK, we lived in a cheap hotel for a week or so until we found a flat. In the window there was this: http://tinyurl.com/5lfd56
Yet they had free wireless internet….
September 14th, 2008 at 7:00 am
There’s a place around here called Sams Stereo’s.
What really bugs me and seems so common is the pricing of things as less than a cent. I’ve called places on that and I generally just get blank stares. Give them a penny and say, “keep the change.”
September 14th, 2008 at 7:39 am
Please explain to Mrs BA that spelling is not grammar.
September 14th, 2008 at 7:55 am
“its AN grate websight”
tsk tsk. Is it so hard to get correct bad grammar these days??
September 14th, 2008 at 8:26 am
Here is a nother grate website. Its fun too look at all of the pitchers their to. If you wood like to sea them go here:
http://www.new.facebook.com/home.php?ref=home#/group.php?gid=2209553478
Ridger: You will be judged the same for using bad speling as you will for using bad grammer.
September 14th, 2008 at 8:56 am
Phil,
I love sites like that… and I, too, have been accused of being a “grammar Nazi” and “English professor”… most recently by someone who hired me to work on a project that required good written English! The person was almost accusatory about it!
By the way, Mrs. BA would love (if she doesn’t already have it) “Eats Shoots and Leaves” and “Lapsing into a Comma”…
cc
September 14th, 2008 at 9:05 am
The title is Eats, Shoots and Leaves. The comma is important.
September 14th, 2008 at 9:14 am
I’ve noticed that non-native speakers of English tend to have better grammar than native speakers. From some papers I’ve read (professional ones at that!), the ones by non-native speakers required fewer corrections. It’s kinda sad, really.
September 14th, 2008 at 9:21 am
I learned more English grammar when I took some foreign language classes than I did in all my years of schooling. Prior to that the only thing I’d knew about grammar was that she was married to my granpar.
September 14th, 2008 at 9:32 am
The consequences of bad English in a Dirty Hungarian Phrase Book is illustrated in this video:
September 14th, 2008 at 10:25 am
I’m amazed at how often I see the apostrophe used for plurals. I don’t recall this being a common mistake in the past.
I credit my spelling and grammar skills simply to being a voracious reader.
September 14th, 2008 at 10:55 am
Nothing like finding the same subject in the local paper
J/P=?
September 14th, 2008 at 11:23 am
@Jadehawk
>> the “10 items or less” drives me batty! 10 is a number, not an amount
What is wrong with “10 items or less”? I don’t get it. What should it be?
September 14th, 2008 at 11:23 am
As Oscar Wilde said when he went into exile in France, “Oh, how I hate to leave my friend’s behind.”
September 14th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
Michael P
“less” is used with amounts, i.e. things you can’t count: less milk, less flour, less sand, less cake. for things you can count (numbers) you have to use fewer: fewer cakes, fewer items, fewer children.
or to make it easier
if you want less of something that’s singular (cake), it’s “less”
if you want less of something that’s plural (cakes), it’s “fewer”
so it should be “10 items or fewer” or better yet “up to 10 items”, because the former sounds awkward.
September 14th, 2008 at 12:46 pm
The problem with grammar is that even if I don’t want to deal with it I will have it in some form. (Bad, most likely.) As I remember it, the idea that we should learn rules to do what we already knew well enough didn’t go over well with me as a child. And when it turned out that there are all these examples of special cases, imprecisions, and evolution in languages, I refused to waste time on the subject.
Of course, now that I can meet (too) many examples of bad grammar and styles on the web, I feel differently. It’s no longer easy find out which writers to use as examples. In fact, a non-native writer likely initially tend to be conscious of spelling et cetera (as I believe some here comments on) but after a while may adopt the native writers mistakes!
This post prompted me to finally find out what “split infinitives” and “spelling bees” are. And luckily the Wikipedia entry explains the humor in the Star Trek example!
Hmm. Seems to me that the split infinitive is a fairly common construction in my native language, say if “[it is a good idea] to not buy [that item]” (sw: “[det är en god ide] att inte köpa [den saken]“) is a proper, albeit badly styled, example? So at a guess I use it all the time.
Oh, and I recently learned about the full stop style (“two spaces after a sentence”) – also a time waster if done manually, but if it improves readability on average in tests I’m all for it. But none of my text editors seem to support it.
September 14th, 2008 at 12:55 pm
One of the more common mistakes that I experience, especially in spoken english, is the incorrect use of the word “myself”.
As in: “Tom and myself were present at the meeting”.
Ironically, and amusingly, someone using it incorrectly is invariably trying to sound more sophisticated.
September 14th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Jadehawk is right, however, there are instances where even formal English will accept “less” when the contrast is explicit: We want a few more cars and a few less buses (where “few” or “fewer” would be unacceptable); or in expressions of measurement, even when plural: Less than 60 years’ old; Less than 50 metres.
September 14th, 2008 at 1:57 pm
Torbjörn Larsson mentioned Star Trek in which the famous split infinitive occurs in the opening sequence: “… to boldly go where no man has gone before.”
Well, a grammar fascist-feminist would insist that it be rephrased as: …to go boldly where no person has gone before!
September 14th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
To IVAN3MAN:
It a was changed in/after Star Trek VI: “…to boldly go where no one has gone before”.
Also Douglas Adams had them in his black book: “to boldly split infinitives that no man had split before”.
September 14th, 2008 at 2:35 pm
When I used to teach I.T. back in the 90′s, spelling checkers were just starting to be developed and incorporated into word processors. Of course they were always linked to U.S. dictionaries and difficult if not impossible at times to alter them to U.K. spelling (Yes, I’m looking at you, Microsoft – who else?) which used to enrage me no end.
I tried (and still do) to encourage people to mistrust the things. Just because every word in a sentence is spelled correctly does not mean that the sentence makes sense. To highlight this, I used to write out the following sentence on the board and get the whole class to copy it letter for letter, then run it threw – oops, sorry, through the spell checker. Even my current copy of Word (U.K. dictionary) has no problem with the following, either with spelling or grammar:
“PUTT KNOT YAW TRUSSED INN SPELL CHEQUERS”
Go on, try it. No errors. Now say it out loud.
It made my point every time!
September 14th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
It’s unbelievable how common it is for people to mix up the words “loose” and “lose.” I swear I see it at least every other day.
September 14th, 2008 at 6:17 pm
Yes, but is that cauliflower also “for great justice”?
Inquiring minds and all.
September 14th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
Thanny complains about grammar Nazis and then puts a bloody apostrophe in there! Was that of the “Look out! Here comes an s” variety?
You’re right about split infinitives, though. A silly, old fashioned “rule” made up to give pedants something extra to complain about (as if it was needed).
My mother was an english teacher, so I had this stuff drummed into me from an early age. I’m going to send her that link.
September 15th, 2008 at 2:53 am
This was a beauty but I didn’t have a camera with me to record the scene: I was on holiday on the Isle of Wight, ambling around a little village, checking out a second hand book shop. There on the bargain shelf was a fluorescent label that said:
H. G. Well’s Time Machine – 50p
Bob (big)
September 15th, 2008 at 7:46 am
OntarioHubby and I had a good chuckle over an ad in the latest Black Belt magazine. The caption read (something like):
“What price would you pay for excellance?”
Yep, spelled exactly like that. Har!
September 15th, 2008 at 9:21 am
Am I wrong for expecting so little from people so old?
It depends on the forum. In a written essay in a college setting, no. In a formal publication on the newsstand, no.
On a message board where posts are generally hastily typed conversation, yes, you are completely wrong. It is going to be first draft, and the first draft even of professional writers is going to contain errors. I’ve lost count of the number of articles by famous authors where they profusely thank their editors. It’s just not worth the man minutes to sit there and revise a message board post.
September 15th, 2008 at 9:50 am
While driving from Philadelphia to Baltimore, I went through one of tolls, and the sign at the end that informs you that your toll had been received displayed, “Thankx”
I wanted to cry.
September 15th, 2008 at 11:37 am
I wanted to cry.
Seriously, are all of you folks *this* sensitive? Literacy rates have been trending ever upward since there has been writing. The global literacy rate today is 82% and rising.
Remember one of the tenets of skepticism: do not project from anecdotal evidence?
Languages also evolve and change. Kids using internet slang is just a reality. Deal. It’s a facet of tribalism that’s deeply wired into us, and another facet that absorbs the tribal lexicons into the greater monkeysphere. IOW, it happens every generation, and the better words become mainstream. How many educated people here, without even thinking about it, proclaim “cool!” when Phil posts something neat. You’d better be prepared for “leet” becoming more common.
So stop blubbing like a gruppa of baboochkas, and viddy some radosty in the cultural evolutioning.
(Ten points and a cookie to anyone who can identify the slang in the last line)
September 15th, 2008 at 12:27 pm
Some friends were driving down a local road and saw the following hand painted sign: Strawberries Pick your one
You have to think about it for a minute.
September 15th, 2008 at 1:31 pm
QD, most of the complaints are not about neologisms, but about blatant disregard (or ignorance) of proper spelling which leads to confusion. For that, they deserve a tolchok in the rot.
As for the slang in the last line — nye znayu, droog.
September 15th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
[...] good reason to include some meat in your diet. This site is a hoot — subscribed. Thanks, Phil.Tags: [...]
September 15th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
@Quiet Desperation
I didn’t really want to cry, and to be honest, it was more of a sad shaking of the head kind of reaction. I have no doubt that some people who saw it think there is nothing wrong with it. Sorry for being over the time.
September 15th, 2008 at 8:19 pm
Quiet Desperation Says: “Ten points and a cookie to anyone who can identify the slang in the last line”
Anthony Burgess, “A Clockwork Orange.”
Chocolate Chip, please.
- Jack
September 15th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
A grammar Nazi?
So if you misuse an apostrophe, she shoots you through the head and then bludgeons your elderly parents to death? Does she murder children if they make spelling errors?
October 24th, 2008 at 8:55 am
I am a native speaker from saudi arabia ,I can be your project of study, and please dont maind the lazy language that i have.you can be a help for learning the proper language.