Comments on: A few things for Saturday http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/ I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog. Tue, 14 Feb 2012 13:27:34 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Laurel Kornfeld http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-121196 Laurel Kornfeld Fri, 26 Sep 2008 04:44:20 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-121196 Matt, I disagree with your statement that whether or not Pluto is a planet has nothing to do with its composition and geophysical processes. This is exactly the problem with the IAU definition. It ignores what an object is and classifies an object solely by where it is. There is a real, significant difference between asteroids and planets, which has to do with planets being in hydrostatic equilibrium, meaning they have enough self gravity to pull themselves into a round shape. When this happens, objects experience geological differentiation and weather, which shapeless, inert asteroids and KBOs do not. There is a big difference between the KBOs in hydrostatic equilibrium and those not in that state. The ones in hydrostatic equilibrium are a new class of objects--the are a new class of planets because their composition and processes are just like those of planets. The only difference is they don't dominate their neighborhoods. The IAU should have added dwarf planets as a subclass of planets rather than make the senseless statement that dwarf planets are not planets at all. There are plenty of kids' materials that have not been changed or modified to comply with the IAU decision. I know because I've bought many of them for my now five-year-old nephew. There are also some good books such as National Geographic's "Eleven Planets," which includes Ceres, Pluto, and Eris and another book titled "Ten Worlds" that inludes Pluto and Eris. You just have to shop around and look at the items before you buy. I for one would never purchase any educational materials that stop with Neptune, but that's just my preference. We can and do vote with our dollars. Matt, I disagree with your statement that whether or not Pluto is a planet has nothing to do with its composition and geophysical processes. This is exactly the problem with the IAU definition. It ignores what an object is and classifies an object solely by where it is. There is a real, significant difference between asteroids and planets, which has to do with planets being in hydrostatic equilibrium, meaning they have enough self gravity to pull themselves into a round shape. When this happens, objects experience geological differentiation and weather, which shapeless, inert asteroids and KBOs do not. There is a big difference between the KBOs in hydrostatic equilibrium and those not in that state. The ones in hydrostatic equilibrium are a new class of objects–the are a new class of planets because their composition and processes are just like those of planets. The only difference is they don’t dominate their neighborhoods. The IAU should have added dwarf planets as a subclass of planets rather than make the senseless statement that dwarf planets are not planets at all.

There are plenty of kids’ materials that have not been changed or modified to comply with the IAU decision. I know because I’ve bought many of them for my now five-year-old nephew. There are also some good books such as National Geographic’s “Eleven Planets,” which includes Ceres, Pluto, and Eris and another book titled “Ten Worlds” that inludes Pluto and Eris. You just have to shop around and look at the items before you buy. I for one would never purchase any educational materials that stop with Neptune, but that’s just my preference. We can and do vote with our dollars.

]]> By: Joe http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-120081 Joe Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:28:39 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-120081 I don't doubt the interest in your book at Amazon.com but I am wondering why you have 29 September results on your web page a week before they can exist? http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3220/2873079242_6ef29fbd76.jpg?v=0 I don’t doubt the interest in your book at Amazon.com but I am wondering why you have 29 September results on your web page a week before they can exist?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3220/2873079242_6ef29fbd76.jpg?v=0

]]> By: «bønez_brigade» http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-120049 «bønez_brigade» Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:12:52 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-120049 Damn, I just noticed that 'DFTS' has dropped to #3 in Amazon's Astrophysics section, and #2 is, well, a genuine #2 ifyouknowwhatImean (think "Hoax-land"). Damn, I just noticed that ‘DFTS’ has dropped to #3 in Amazon’s Astrophysics section, and #2 is, well, a genuine #2 ifyouknowwhatImean (think “Hoax-land”).

]]> By: Matt McIrvin http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-120036 Matt McIrvin Mon, 22 Sep 2008 02:33:30 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-120036 <i>We’re sending a spacecraft there specifically to learn about its composition and geophysical processes, aspects very likely to confirm it is in fact a planet.</i> Whether or not Pluto is a planet is not a scientific question; it doesn't have anything to do with composition and geophysical processes. It's just an argument about words and definitions. I very much doubt that New Horizons will convince anyone to change their mind on the subject. I have a little daughter who likes books about astronomy, and I somewhat dislike the way that kids' materials such as beginning books, posters, puzzles, etc. were modified after the IAU decision to just delete Pluto from the solar system. (Often these kiddie solar-system diagrams do depict the asteroid belt, but not the Kuiper Belt.) I do understand the reasoning that removed its planet status, and I don't really object to it. But the thing that led to Pluto's demotion was the discovery of <i>more interesting objects</i> out there, a whole new understanding of the complexity of the outer reaches of the solar system. To me, these discoveries make Pluto more interesting, not less, because it's not just a miscellaneous oddball--it's the first known instance of a whole class of objects. If the effect of the IAU decision on these supposed educational materials is that they just claim that the solar system ends at Neptune, that seems pretty perverse. We’re sending a spacecraft there specifically to learn about its composition and geophysical processes, aspects very likely to confirm it is in fact a planet.

Whether or not Pluto is a planet is not a scientific question; it doesn’t have anything to do with composition and geophysical processes. It’s just an argument about words and definitions. I very much doubt that New Horizons will convince anyone to change their mind on the subject.

I have a little daughter who likes books about astronomy, and I somewhat dislike the way that kids’ materials such as beginning books, posters, puzzles, etc. were modified after the IAU decision to just delete Pluto from the solar system. (Often these kiddie solar-system diagrams do depict the asteroid belt, but not the Kuiper Belt.)

I do understand the reasoning that removed its planet status, and I don’t really object to it. But the thing that led to Pluto’s demotion was the discovery of more interesting objects out there, a whole new understanding of the complexity of the outer reaches of the solar system. To me, these discoveries make Pluto more interesting, not less, because it’s not just a miscellaneous oddball–it’s the first known instance of a whole class of objects. If the effect of the IAU decision on these supposed educational materials is that they just claim that the solar system ends at Neptune, that seems pretty perverse.

]]> By: Jack Hagerty http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-120031 Jack Hagerty Mon, 22 Sep 2008 01:41:37 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-120031 @kuhnigget We should probably take this conversation private, but I don't have your address. You can contact me at jhagerty@juno.com. kuhnigget Says: "Your “Spaceship Handbook” is sitting on my shelf! It was a useful reference when I was working on the Science Fiction Museum & Hall of Fame in Seattle. (Yes, there is such a place.)" Yes, I know there's such a place. I'm a charter member although I've never had a chance to visit. Jon Rogers (the other name on the cover) lives (relatively) close to there in Bow. I'm curious how you used the book to help set up the exhibits. Now I really have to visit! Maybe you can also tell me why I couldn't get anyone there interested in carrying it in the bookstore. "# 1,364,198 was my first novel, a lowly print-on-demand archaeological mystery called Lair of the Jackal." I'll check it out. Thanks! - Jack @kuhnigget
We should probably take this conversation private, but I don’t have your address. You can contact me at jhagerty@juno.com.

kuhnigget Says: “Your “Spaceship Handbook” is sitting on my shelf! It was a useful reference when I was working on the Science Fiction Museum & Hall of Fame in Seattle. (Yes, there is such a place.)”

Yes, I know there’s such a place. I’m a charter member although I’ve never had a chance to visit. Jon Rogers (the other name on the cover) lives (relatively) close to there in Bow.

I’m curious how you used the book to help set up the exhibits. Now I really have to visit! Maybe you can also tell me why I couldn’t get anyone there interested in carrying it in the bookstore.

“# 1,364,198 was my first novel, a lowly print-on-demand archaeological mystery called Lair of the Jackal.”

I’ll check it out. Thanks!

- Jack

]]> By: Rahne http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-120027 Rahne Mon, 22 Sep 2008 00:41:02 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-120027 I think the book peaked around #435 from what I saw today. It's down to #1,078 now. *preorders it* I think the book peaked around #435 from what I saw today. It’s down to #1,078 now.

*preorders it*

]]> By: Laurel Kornfeld http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-119969 Laurel Kornfeld Sun, 21 Sep 2008 17:23:29 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-119969 Shane, Pluto is a planet. Don't be swayed by the opinion of four percent of the IAU, which has been disputed by many professional astronomers across the world. We're sending a spacecraft there specifically to learn about its composition and geophysical processes, aspects very likely to confirm it is in fact a planet. Shane, Pluto is a planet. Don’t be swayed by the opinion of four percent of the IAU, which has been disputed by many professional astronomers across the world. We’re sending a spacecraft there specifically to learn about its composition and geophysical processes, aspects very likely to confirm it is in fact a planet.

]]> By: kuhnigget http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-119942 kuhnigget Sun, 21 Sep 2008 14:37:58 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-119942 @ Jack: Your "Spaceship Handbook" is sitting on my shelf! It was a useful reference when I was working on the Science Fiction Museum & Hall of Fame in Seattle. (Yes, there is such a place.) # 1,364,198 was my first novel, a lowly print-on-demand archaeological mystery called <i>Lair of the Jackal.</i>. The second one is currently bouncing around several publishers. Maybe it will reach 1,364,19<i>7</i>! (Sorry Dr. BA, for the shameless plug. If it helps, I've already pre-ordered yours!) @ Jack:

Your “Spaceship Handbook” is sitting on my shelf! It was a useful reference when I was working on the Science Fiction Museum & Hall of Fame in Seattle. (Yes, there is such a place.)

# 1,364,198 was my first novel, a lowly print-on-demand archaeological mystery called Lair of the Jackal.. The second one is currently bouncing around several publishers. Maybe it will reach 1,364,197!

(Sorry Dr. BA, for the shameless plug. If it helps, I’ve already pre-ordered yours!)

]]> By: Matt McIrvin http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-119939 Matt McIrvin Sun, 21 Sep 2008 14:17:48 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-119939 Mercury's orbit required general relativity. This is just a special-relativistic effect concerning the Doppler shift in the received signals. Which makes me a little suspicious of the paper, just because it seems unlikely that this kind of thing wouldn't already have been taken into account. It will be interesting to see the response. Mercury’s orbit required general relativity. This is just a special-relativistic effect concerning the Doppler shift in the received signals. Which makes me a little suspicious of the paper, just because it seems unlikely that this kind of thing wouldn’t already have been taken into account. It will be interesting to see the response.

]]> By: Torbjörn Larsson, OM http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-119936 Torbjörn Larsson, OM Sun, 21 Sep 2008 13:48:54 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-119936 <blockquote> But after studying lots of flybys, engineers were baffled that the numbers weren’t adding up, and some were claiming that this is do to a Mysterious Unknown Force. However, as Universe Today points out, it may just be relativity. </blockquote> That may explain the doppler shift, but as Mike McCulloch points out in the comments, AFAIU the consistent ranging (signal timing) anomaly remains to be explained. I have to go through the proposal more, but perhaps this paper only added to the mystery. But at least the author is right about one thing. If this is a testable model as regards its constraints on distance and vector directions it should be specifically done. Btw, I was happily surprised by Mbelek coming up with something sensible like that paper. <a href="http://eprintweb.org/S/authors/All/mb/Mbelek" rel="nofollow">His earlier eclectic interests in everything from the Pioneer anomaly to Kaluza-Klein theory</a>, as well that he mostly writes single author papers, has only made me note his name for some reason or other, but never read him.

But after studying lots of flybys, engineers were baffled that the numbers weren’t adding up, and some were claiming that this is do to a Mysterious Unknown Force. However, as Universe Today points out, it may just be relativity.

That may explain the doppler shift, but as Mike McCulloch points out in the comments, AFAIU the consistent ranging (signal timing) anomaly remains to be explained. I have to go through the proposal more, but perhaps this paper only added to the mystery.

But at least the author is right about one thing. If this is a testable model as regards its constraints on distance and vector directions it should be specifically done.

Btw, I was happily surprised by Mbelek coming up with something sensible like that paper. His earlier eclectic interests in everything from the Pioneer anomaly to Kaluza-Klein theory, as well that he mostly writes single author papers, has only made me note his name for some reason or other, but never read him.

]]> By: Grand Lunar http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-119930 Grand Lunar Sun, 21 Sep 2008 12:02:29 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-119930 So cool about point #2. It makes sense, as planet Mercury's orbit required relativity to properly figure it out. I imagine our space probes at least match Mercury's orbital speed when zooming through the solar system? So cool about point #2.
It makes sense, as planet Mercury’s orbit required relativity to properly figure it out. I imagine our space probes at least match Mercury’s orbital speed when zooming through the solar system?

]]> By: Vagueofgodalming http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-119916 Vagueofgodalming Sun, 21 Sep 2008 09:50:05 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-119916 Sunday... Eggcellent! ;-) Sunday…

Eggcellent! ;-)

]]> By: Jack Hagerty http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-119900 Jack Hagerty Sun, 21 Sep 2008 07:00:21 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-119900 kuhnigget Says: "#725 on Amazon, huh? Wow. That kind of beats my pitiful #1,364,198." That wailing and gnashing of teeth you heard was the green-eyed monster when seeing that "Spaceship Handbook" is currently #121,081 and this wet-behind-the-ears whipper snapper is down into the triple digits. Thanks. Suddenly I don't feel quite so bad :-) It's even #79 in Books > Science > Astronomy > Astrophysics & Space Science (where Phil is #1 (of course)). Not too bad for a seven year old book. "Maybe I should start a blog. Or, um, write better books." What's your book about? Title? - Jack 121,081 kuhnigget Says: “#725 on Amazon, huh? Wow. That kind of beats my pitiful #1,364,198.”

That wailing and gnashing of teeth you heard was the green-eyed monster when seeing that “Spaceship Handbook” is currently #121,081 and this wet-behind-the-ears whipper snapper is down into the triple digits. Thanks. Suddenly I don’t feel quite so bad :-) It’s even #79 in Books > Science > Astronomy > Astrophysics & Space Science (where Phil is #1 (of course)). Not too bad for a seven year old book.

“Maybe I should start a blog. Or, um, write better books.”

What’s your book about? Title?

- Jack

121,081

]]> By: Dan http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-119865 Dan Sun, 21 Sep 2008 02:45:39 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-119865 Is there an electronic copy of your book I can buy? Living in the Caribbean makes Amazon shipping quite expensive... Is there an electronic copy of your book I can buy? Living in the Caribbean makes Amazon shipping quite expensive…

]]> By: Daniel http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-119863 Daniel Sun, 21 Sep 2008 02:24:33 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-119863 582 on .com now 582 on .com now

]]> By: Quiet Desperation http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-119861 Quiet Desperation Sun, 21 Sep 2008 02:04:13 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-119861 It's not Saturday! It's CATURDAY! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvBiSW5QFKY It’s not Saturday! It’s CATURDAY!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvBiSW5QFKY

]]> By: kuhnigget http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-119859 kuhnigget Sun, 21 Sep 2008 01:58:54 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-119859 #725 on Amazon, huh? Wow. That kind of beats my pitiful #1,364,198. Maybe I should start a blog. Or, um, write better books. #725 on Amazon, huh? Wow. That kind of beats my pitiful #1,364,198.

Maybe I should start a blog. Or, um, write better books.

]]> By: Funkopolis http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-119849 Funkopolis Sun, 21 Sep 2008 01:00:04 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-119849 Yeah, take _that_ , "A Brief History of Time" Yeah, take _that_ , “A Brief History of Time”

]]> By: Huron http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-119845 Huron Sun, 21 Sep 2008 00:36:18 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-119845 You rank 509 on amazon.ca and 666 on amazon.com. You rank 509 on amazon.ca and 666 on amazon.com.

]]> By: Janiece http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-119830 Janiece Sat, 20 Sep 2008 23:44:16 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-119830 Shane, I didn't even notice the anomaly, since I had "Death" in quotes. Oops. Nothing to see here, officer, nothing to see...move along...these aren't the 'droids you're looking for... Shane, I didn’t even notice the anomaly, since I had “Death” in quotes.

Oops.

Nothing to see here, officer, nothing to see…move along…these aren’t the ‘droids you’re looking for…

]]> By: Gryfin210 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-119825 Gryfin210 Sat, 20 Sep 2008 22:25:20 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-119825 I hate to be a Grammar Nazi, but you used the wrong "due". I can't wait for the book, by the way... I hate to be a Grammar Nazi, but you used the wrong “due”.

I can’t wait for the book, by the way…

]]> By: Gary Ansorge http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-119824 Gary Ansorge Sat, 20 Sep 2008 22:20:53 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-119824 As some noted sage observed, " Nothing breeds success, like success,,,". The higher Death,,, goes, the more likely others will take note, buy the book and push it even higher. Now, if you could just get the Colbert Bump,,, GAry 7 As some noted sage observed, ” Nothing breeds success, like success,,,”. The higher Death,,, goes, the more likely others will take note, buy the book and push it even higher. Now, if you could just get the Colbert Bump,,,

GAry 7

]]> By: Wendy http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-119819 Wendy Sat, 20 Sep 2008 20:47:15 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-119819 On a totally unrelated note, another thing for Saturday (found from UniverseToday), the first LHC particle collision has been delayed by AT LEAST TWO MONTHS!!! Read here: http://www.universetoday.com/2008/09/20/helium-leak-forces-lhc-shutdown-for-at-least-two-months/ Lame! On a totally unrelated note, another thing for Saturday (found from UniverseToday), the first LHC particle collision has been delayed by AT LEAST TWO MONTHS!!! Read here:

http://www.universetoday.com/2008/09/20/helium-leak-forces-lhc-shutdown-for-at-least-two-months/

Lame!

]]> By: Harold http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-119814 Harold Sat, 20 Sep 2008 19:23:09 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-119814 Looks like somebody's been messing with the timestreams. <i>Damn you, Large Hadron Collider!</i> I just got the new issue of <i>Sky & Telescope</i> yesterday, and I don't even know what <i>month</i> it is. Is this something new in publishing. not listing the month and year for the issue on the cover? Or is this some typesetting error that means I have an ultra-valuable "Inverted Jenny" edition? Looks like somebody’s been messing with the timestreams. Damn you, Large Hadron Collider!

I just got the new issue of Sky & Telescope yesterday, and I don’t even know what month it is.

Is this something new in publishing. not listing the month and year for the issue on the cover? Or is this some typesetting error that means I have an ultra-valuable “Inverted Jenny” edition?

]]> By: madge http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-119813 madge Sat, 20 Sep 2008 19:17:05 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-119813 about the slingshot anomoly CHRIS(swoon)LINTOTT has an ineresting post (as always) http://chrislintott.net/2008/09/19/an-interesting-test-case/ :) about the slingshot anomoly CHRIS(swoon)LINTOTT has an ineresting post (as always)

http://chrislintott.net/2008/09/19/an-interesting-test-case/

:)

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