Comments on: A few things for Saturday http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/ I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog. Mon, 09 Nov 2009 01:30:08 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Laurel Kornfeld http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-121196 Laurel Kornfeld Fri, 26 Sep 2008 04:44:20 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-121196 Matt, I disagree with your statement that whether or not Pluto is a planet has nothing to do with its composition and geophysical processes. This is exactly the problem with the IAU definition. It ignores what an object is and classifies an object solely by where it is. There is a real, significant difference between asteroids and planets, which has to do with planets being in hydrostatic equilibrium, meaning they have enough self gravity to pull themselves into a round shape. When this happens, objects experience geological differentiation and weather, which shapeless, inert asteroids and KBOs do not. There is a big difference between the KBOs in hydrostatic equilibrium and those not in that state. The ones in hydrostatic equilibrium are a new class of objects--the are a new class of planets because their composition and processes are just like those of planets. The only difference is they don't dominate their neighborhoods. The IAU should have added dwarf planets as a subclass of planets rather than make the senseless statement that dwarf planets are not planets at all. There are plenty of kids' materials that have not been changed or modified to comply with the IAU decision. I know because I've bought many of them for my now five-year-old nephew. There are also some good books such as National Geographic's "Eleven Planets," which includes Ceres, Pluto, and Eris and another book titled "Ten Worlds" that inludes Pluto and Eris. You just have to shop around and look at the items before you buy. I for one would never purchase any educational materials that stop with Neptune, but that's just my preference. We can and do vote with our dollars. Matt, I disagree with your statement that whether or not Pluto is a planet has nothing to do with its composition and geophysical processes. This is exactly the problem with the IAU definition. It ignores what an object is and classifies an object solely by where it is. There is a real, significant difference between asteroids and planets, which has to do with planets being in hydrostatic equilibrium, meaning they have enough self gravity to pull themselves into a round shape. When this happens, objects experience geological differentiation and weather, which shapeless, inert asteroids and KBOs do not. There is a big difference between the KBOs in hydrostatic equilibrium and those not in that state. The ones in hydrostatic equilibrium are a new class of objects–the are a new class of planets because their composition and processes are just like those of planets. The only difference is they don’t dominate their neighborhoods. The IAU should have added dwarf planets as a subclass of planets rather than make the senseless statement that dwarf planets are not planets at all.

There are plenty of kids’ materials that have not been changed or modified to comply with the IAU decision. I know because I’ve bought many of them for my now five-year-old nephew. There are also some good books such as National Geographic’s “Eleven Planets,” which includes Ceres, Pluto, and Eris and another book titled “Ten Worlds” that inludes Pluto and Eris. You just have to shop around and look at the items before you buy. I for one would never purchase any educational materials that stop with Neptune, but that’s just my preference. We can and do vote with our dollars.

]]> By: Joe http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-120081 Joe Mon, 22 Sep 2008 14:28:39 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-120081 I don't doubt the interest in your book at Amazon.com but I am wondering why you have 29 September results on your web page a week before they can exist? http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3220/2873079242_6ef29fbd76.jpg?v=0 I don’t doubt the interest in your book at Amazon.com but I am wondering why you have 29 September results on your web page a week before they can exist?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3220/2873079242_6ef29fbd76.jpg?v=0

]]> By: «bønez_brigade» http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-120049 «bønez_brigade» Mon, 22 Sep 2008 06:12:52 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-120049 Damn, I just noticed that 'DFTS' has dropped to #3 in Amazon's Astrophysics section, and #2 is, well, a genuine #2 ifyouknowwhatImean (think "Hoax-land"). Damn, I just noticed that ‘DFTS’ has dropped to #3 in Amazon’s Astrophysics section, and #2 is, well, a genuine #2 ifyouknowwhatImean (think “Hoax-land”).

]]> By: Matt McIrvin http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-120036 Matt McIrvin Mon, 22 Sep 2008 02:33:30 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-120036 <i>We’re sending a spacecraft there specifically to learn about its composition and geophysical processes, aspects very likely to confirm it is in fact a planet.</i> Whether or not Pluto is a planet is not a scientific question; it doesn't have anything to do with composition and geophysical processes. It's just an argument about words and definitions. I very much doubt that New Horizons will convince anyone to change their mind on the subject. I have a little daughter who likes books about astronomy, and I somewhat dislike the way that kids' materials such as beginning books, posters, puzzles, etc. were modified after the IAU decision to just delete Pluto from the solar system. (Often these kiddie solar-system diagrams do depict the asteroid belt, but not the Kuiper Belt.) I do understand the reasoning that removed its planet status, and I don't really object to it. But the thing that led to Pluto's demotion was the discovery of <i>more interesting objects</i> out there, a whole new understanding of the complexity of the outer reaches of the solar system. To me, these discoveries make Pluto more interesting, not less, because it's not just a miscellaneous oddball--it's the first known instance of a whole class of objects. If the effect of the IAU decision on these supposed educational materials is that they just claim that the solar system ends at Neptune, that seems pretty perverse. We’re sending a spacecraft there specifically to learn about its composition and geophysical processes, aspects very likely to confirm it is in fact a planet.

Whether or not Pluto is a planet is not a scientific question; it doesn’t have anything to do with composition and geophysical processes. It’s just an argument about words and definitions. I very much doubt that New Horizons will convince anyone to change their mind on the subject.

I have a little daughter who likes books about astronomy, and I somewhat dislike the way that kids’ materials such as beginning books, posters, puzzles, etc. were modified after the IAU decision to just delete Pluto from the solar system. (Often these kiddie solar-system diagrams do depict the asteroid belt, but not the Kuiper Belt.)

I do understand the reasoning that removed its planet status, and I don’t really object to it. But the thing that led to Pluto’s demotion was the discovery of more interesting objects out there, a whole new understanding of the complexity of the outer reaches of the solar system. To me, these discoveries make Pluto more interesting, not less, because it’s not just a miscellaneous oddball–it’s the first known instance of a whole class of objects. If the effect of the IAU decision on these supposed educational materials is that they just claim that the solar system ends at Neptune, that seems pretty perverse.

]]> By: Jack Hagerty http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-120031 Jack Hagerty Mon, 22 Sep 2008 01:41:37 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-120031 @kuhnigget We should probably take this conversation private, but I don't have your address. You can contact me at jhagerty@juno.com. kuhnigget Says: "Your “Spaceship Handbook” is sitting on my shelf! It was a useful reference when I was working on the Science Fiction Museum & Hall of Fame in Seattle. (Yes, there is such a place.)" Yes, I know there's such a place. I'm a charter member although I've never had a chance to visit. Jon Rogers (the other name on the cover) lives (relatively) close to there in Bow. I'm curious how you used the book to help set up the exhibits. Now I really have to visit! Maybe you can also tell me why I couldn't get anyone there interested in carrying it in the bookstore. "# 1,364,198 was my first novel, a lowly print-on-demand archaeological mystery called Lair of the Jackal." I'll check it out. Thanks! - Jack @kuhnigget
We should probably take this conversation private, but I don’t have your address. You can contact me at jhagerty@juno.com.

kuhnigget Says: “Your “Spaceship Handbook” is sitting on my shelf! It was a useful reference when I was working on the Science Fiction Museum & Hall of Fame in Seattle. (Yes, there is such a place.)”

Yes, I know there’s such a place. I’m a charter member although I’ve never had a chance to visit. Jon Rogers (the other name on the cover) lives (relatively) close to there in Bow.

I’m curious how you used the book to help set up the exhibits. Now I really have to visit! Maybe you can also tell me why I couldn’t get anyone there interested in carrying it in the bookstore.

“# 1,364,198 was my first novel, a lowly print-on-demand archaeological mystery called Lair of the Jackal.”

I’ll check it out. Thanks!

- Jack

]]> By: Rahne http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-120027 Rahne Mon, 22 Sep 2008 00:41:02 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-120027 I think the book peaked around #435 from what I saw today. It's down to #1,078 now. *preorders it* I think the book peaked around #435 from what I saw today. It’s down to #1,078 now.

*preorders it*

]]> By: Laurel Kornfeld http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/comment-page-1/#comment-119969 Laurel Kornfeld Sun, 21 Sep 2008 17:23:29 +0000 http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/a-few-things-for-saturday/#comment-119969 Shane, Pluto is a planet. Don't be swayed by the opinion of four percent of the IAU, which has been disputed by many professional astronomers across the world. We're sending a spacecraft there specifically to learn about its composition and geophysical processes, aspects very likely to confirm it is in fact a planet. Shane, Pluto is a planet. Don’t be swayed by the opinion of four percent of the IAU, which has been disputed by many professional astronomers across the world. We’re sending a spacecraft there specifically to learn about its composition and geophysical processes, aspects very likely to confirm it is in fact a planet.

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