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	<title>Comments on: LHC electrical failure will keep it down for 2+ months</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/lhc-electrical-failure-will-keep-it-down-for-2-months/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/lhc-electrical-failure-will-keep-it-down-for-2-months/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
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		<title>By: Lousy Canuck &#187; Super Linking Post!</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/lhc-electrical-failure-will-keep-it-down-for-2-months/comment-page-3/#comment-122633</link>
		<dc:creator>Lousy Canuck &#187; Super Linking Post!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 15:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/lhc-electrical-failure-will-keep-it-down-for-2-months/#comment-122633</guid>
		<description>[...] whole cloth?  In the meantime, it&#039;s looking like at least another two months for CERN to repair a minor electrical fault in a magnet that led to a major spill of liquid helium coolant.  This will delay the DOOOOOOOOOM for a bit, but it hasn&#039;t stopped wonks from coming up with new [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] whole cloth?  In the meantime, it&#8217;s looking like at least another two months for CERN to repair a minor electrical fault in a magnet that led to a major spill of liquid helium coolant.  This will delay the DOOOOOOOOOM for a bit, but it hasn&#8217;t stopped wonks from coming up with new [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mario</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/lhc-electrical-failure-will-keep-it-down-for-2-months/comment-page-3/#comment-122393</link>
		<dc:creator>Mario</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 13:25:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/lhc-electrical-failure-will-keep-it-down-for-2-months/#comment-122393</guid>
		<description>The big bang never happened and who&#039;s controlling our world a &quot;bunch of Monkeys&quot; who believe we evolved from Apes OR Do we have another species on board our planet(&quot;cloned&quot; or from &quot;DNA alterations&quot;) calling the shots? Thanks to these &quot;APES&quot; we now have a black hole that&#039;s going to grow larger and larger with time.  All the people living close to where the LHC is located are going to have a &quot; STAR SHOWER &quot; one day.

Do me a favour all you scientists go and conjugate with an urangatang maybe it&#039;s offspring would be smarter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The big bang never happened and who&#8217;s controlling our world a &#8220;bunch of Monkeys&#8221; who believe we evolved from Apes OR Do we have another species on board our planet(&#8221;cloned&#8221; or from &#8220;DNA alterations&#8221;) calling the shots? Thanks to these &#8220;APES&#8221; we now have a black hole that&#8217;s going to grow larger and larger with time.  All the people living close to where the LHC is located are going to have a &#8221; STAR SHOWER &#8221; one day.</p>
<p>Do me a favour all you scientists go and conjugate with an urangatang maybe it&#8217;s offspring would be smarter.</p>
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		<title>By: shane</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/lhc-electrical-failure-will-keep-it-down-for-2-months/comment-page-3/#comment-120692</link>
		<dc:creator>shane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 16:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/lhc-electrical-failure-will-keep-it-down-for-2-months/#comment-120692</guid>
		<description>So you&#039;ve just bought a billion cubic meters of helium.  
&quot;Ebner. EBNER. Lordy where is that man. Ebner the govmint man is here with the trucks o&#039; helium. Where do ya want it&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So you&#8217;ve just bought a billion cubic meters of helium.<br />
&#8220;Ebner. EBNER. Lordy where is that man. Ebner the govmint man is here with the trucks o&#8217; helium. Where do ya want it&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: IVAN3MAN</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/lhc-electrical-failure-will-keep-it-down-for-2-months/comment-page-3/#comment-120658</link>
		<dc:creator>IVAN3MAN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:32:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/lhc-electrical-failure-will-keep-it-down-for-2-months/#comment-120658</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;ERRATUM&lt;i&gt;: So, it was simply sold off to pay the National &lt;b&gt;Debt.&lt;/b&gt;

&lt;font size=&quot;-2&quot;&gt;Bloody stupid spell-check!&lt;/font&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>ERRATUM</i><i>: So, it was simply sold off to pay the National <b>Debt.</b></p>
<p><font size="-2">Bloody stupid spell-check!</font></i></p>
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		<title>By: IVAN3MAN</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/lhc-electrical-failure-will-keep-it-down-for-2-months/comment-page-2/#comment-120656</link>
		<dc:creator>IVAN3MAN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:25:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/lhc-electrical-failure-will-keep-it-down-for-2-months/#comment-120656</guid>
		<description>&lt;b&gt;@ Buzz Parsec&lt;/b&gt;

This is an extract from Wikipedia:

&lt;blockquote&gt;By 1995, a billion cubic &lt;b&gt;meters&lt;/b&gt; of the gas had been collected and the reserve was US$1.4 billion in debt, prompting the Congress of the United States in 1996 to phase out the reserve. The resulting &quot;Helium Privatization Act of 1996&quot; (Public Law 104–273) directed the United States Department of the Interior to start liquidating the reserve by 2005.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So, it was simply sold off to pay the National Dept.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>@ Buzz Parsec</b></p>
<p>This is an extract from Wikipedia:</p>
<blockquote><p>By 1995, a billion cubic <b>meters</b> of the gas had been collected and the reserve was US$1.4 billion in debt, prompting the Congress of the United States in 1996 to phase out the reserve. The resulting &#8220;Helium Privatization Act of 1996&#8243; (Public Law 104–273) directed the United States Department of the Interior to start liquidating the reserve by 2005.</p></blockquote>
<p>So, it was simply sold off to pay the National Dept.</p>
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		<title>By: Todd W.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/lhc-electrical-failure-will-keep-it-down-for-2-months/comment-page-2/#comment-120651</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 14:17:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/lhc-electrical-failure-will-keep-it-down-for-2-months/#comment-120651</guid>
		<description>@StevoR

Here&#039;s a brain puzzler for you.  Suppose enough people think your way and feel that the LHC poses too much of a threat to the planet and all life on it.  They manage to get it shut down.  This prevents earlier discovery of something (either directly or via a spin-off technology) that, as it turns out, is essential to avert a dire disaster that will wipe out all life on the planet (or at least enough of it to make things rather bleak for a few millennia).  Had we gone ahead with the LHC, we would have had the technological advances to either mitigate or outright prevent the disaster.

Just a thought experiment for you.  While I understand your reservations, there is no way of knowing that preventing the LHC is going to be better overall for the planet.  It very well may be the worst thing to do.

On another note, you are equating the pursuit of science with twisting science to destructive ends.  Keep in mind that all of the dire things you bring up have less to do with the discoveries than with how those discoveries are used or abused.  As Bjoern pointed out, do you make the same cries against viral and bacterial experimentation for medicine?  Those could just as easily be used for harm.  Could some weapon come out of the LHC experiments?  Maybe.  Is that a reason to shut the whole thing down?  I don&#039;t think so.  If so, then the same criticism should be leveled at &lt;i&gt;every&lt;/i&gt; scientific advance that humans have made: the wheel (used to make war machines - chariots), bells (used to make cannons, along with fireworks), flight (used to make fighters and bombers), anything to do with computers (unmanned aerial vehicles that can drop or guide bombs).

Any technology can be used for good or evil, and it is almost never the individual scientists making the initial discoveries that are involved in those decisions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@StevoR</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a brain puzzler for you.  Suppose enough people think your way and feel that the LHC poses too much of a threat to the planet and all life on it.  They manage to get it shut down.  This prevents earlier discovery of something (either directly or via a spin-off technology) that, as it turns out, is essential to avert a dire disaster that will wipe out all life on the planet (or at least enough of it to make things rather bleak for a few millennia).  Had we gone ahead with the LHC, we would have had the technological advances to either mitigate or outright prevent the disaster.</p>
<p>Just a thought experiment for you.  While I understand your reservations, there is no way of knowing that preventing the LHC is going to be better overall for the planet.  It very well may be the worst thing to do.</p>
<p>On another note, you are equating the pursuit of science with twisting science to destructive ends.  Keep in mind that all of the dire things you bring up have less to do with the discoveries than with how those discoveries are used or abused.  As Bjoern pointed out, do you make the same cries against viral and bacterial experimentation for medicine?  Those could just as easily be used for harm.  Could some weapon come out of the LHC experiments?  Maybe.  Is that a reason to shut the whole thing down?  I don&#8217;t think so.  If so, then the same criticism should be leveled at <i>every</i> scientific advance that humans have made: the wheel (used to make war machines &#8211; chariots), bells (used to make cannons, along with fireworks), flight (used to make fighters and bombers), anything to do with computers (unmanned aerial vehicles that can drop or guide bombs).</p>
<p>Any technology can be used for good or evil, and it is almost never the individual scientists making the initial discoveries that are involved in those decisions.</p>
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		<title>By: Bjoern</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/lhc-electrical-failure-will-keep-it-down-for-2-months/comment-page-2/#comment-120636</link>
		<dc:creator>Bjoern</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 24 Sep 2008 12:50:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/20/lhc-electrical-failure-will-keep-it-down-for-2-months/#comment-120636</guid>
		<description>@StevoR:
Let&#039;s try an analogy. Lots of research is going on in biology and medicine involving bacteria and viruses, many of which could be (or become) quite deadly (and could perhaps wipe out humanity completely) if they are somehow released. Do you also say that this research shouldn&#039;t be done? If yes, how many e-mails etc. have you written so far to the people conducting such research?

&quot;Dr Edwin Teller - the inspiration for the fictional Dr Strangelove - wanted to use nukes to dig canals, blow up mountins, in mining ad nauseam.&quot;

Well, yes, Teller was nuts in some ways. But remember, my question was about the dangers of nuclear waste, not nuclear bombs...

&quot;I also worry that the LHC folks may be blinded all too easily by the excitement of their work and the possible delusion (although I hope it isn’t a delusion!)  that they know enough to be safe.&quot;

But the safety of the LHC was (also) judged by an *independent* commision, not (only) by the &quot;LHC folks&quot;.

&quot;I don’t know if, outside of the scientific minority, most people in the wider public think the LHC is money well spent ..In fact I know a few who think its a total waste of cash.&quot;

Well, then the LHC still hasn&#039;t done enough public outreach. The LHC is not only important on its own (increasing our knowledge about the universe in many ways), but also lead and will lead to lots of important spin-offs. Example: the cooling techniques which were developed for the LHC are now also used for fusion reactors - and fusion reactors will help to reduce the CO2-emissions. Another example (not specific for the LHC, but illustrative in general): the beams of particle accelerators are now routinely used for the treatment of certain cancers.

(BTW, there is no way Higgs bosons could in any way be used for bombs. And don&#039;t tell me that&#039;s merely a matter of new technology, and people will surely find a way to use them for bombs! This is a matter of *physics*.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@StevoR:<br />
Let&#8217;s try an analogy. Lots of research is going on in biology and medicine involving bacteria and viruses, many of which could be (or become) quite deadly (and could perhaps wipe out humanity completely) if they are somehow released. Do you also say that this research shouldn&#8217;t be done? If yes, how many e-mails etc. have you written so far to the people conducting such research?</p>
<p>&#8220;Dr Edwin Teller &#8211; the inspiration for the fictional Dr Strangelove &#8211; wanted to use nukes to dig canals, blow up mountins, in mining ad nauseam.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, yes, Teller was nuts in some ways. But remember, my question was about the dangers of nuclear waste, not nuclear bombs&#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;I also worry that the LHC folks may be blinded all too easily by the excitement of their work and the possible delusion (although I hope it isn’t a delusion!)  that they know enough to be safe.&#8221;</p>
<p>But the safety of the LHC was (also) judged by an *independent* commision, not (only) by the &#8220;LHC folks&#8221;.</p>
<p>&#8220;I don’t know if, outside of the scientific minority, most people in the wider public think the LHC is money well spent ..In fact I know a few who think its a total waste of cash.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, then the LHC still hasn&#8217;t done enough public outreach. The LHC is not only important on its own (increasing our knowledge about the universe in many ways), but also lead and will lead to lots of important spin-offs. Example: the cooling techniques which were developed for the LHC are now also used for fusion reactors &#8211; and fusion reactors will help to reduce the CO2-emissions. Another example (not specific for the LHC, but illustrative in general): the beams of particle accelerators are now routinely used for the treatment of certain cancers.</p>
<p>(BTW, there is no way Higgs bosons could in any way be used for bombs. And don&#8217;t tell me that&#8217;s merely a matter of new technology, and people will surely find a way to use them for bombs! This is a matter of *physics*.)</p>
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