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	<title>Comments on: Pluto&#8217;s big Hill to climb</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/29/plutos-big-hill-to-climb/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/29/plutos-big-hill-to-climb/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
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		<title>By: Timechick</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/29/plutos-big-hill-to-climb/comment-page-2/#comment-190411</link>
		<dc:creator>Timechick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 02:56:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/29/plutos-big-hill-to-climb/#comment-190411</guid>
		<description>I am a little goofy I know in saying this but perhaps &quot;Planet&quot; should be like an honorary title instead of a scientific term.  I would propose we go to the ancient Greek meaning of the word and use it for any object that you can see in the sky with the un-added eye that moves against the &quot;apparent&quot; fixed stars.  We should just come up with a different Scientific term for everything else that doesn&#039;t fit that criteria and doesn&#039;t bother all the little kids and parents.  This of course would make the Sun and the Moon planets and perhaps not just demote Pluto, but Neptune as well.  You can&#039;t win them all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a little goofy I know in saying this but perhaps &#8220;Planet&#8221; should be like an honorary title instead of a scientific term.  I would propose we go to the ancient Greek meaning of the word and use it for any object that you can see in the sky with the un-added eye that moves against the &#8220;apparent&#8221; fixed stars.  We should just come up with a different Scientific term for everything else that doesn&#8217;t fit that criteria and doesn&#8217;t bother all the little kids and parents.  This of course would make the Sun and the Moon planets and perhaps not just demote Pluto, but Neptune as well.  You can&#8217;t win them all.</p>
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		<title>By: Interesting stuff for October 2008 &#171; The Outer Hoard</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/29/plutos-big-hill-to-climb/comment-page-2/#comment-128284</link>
		<dc:creator>Interesting stuff for October 2008 &#171; The Outer Hoard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 06:21:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/29/plutos-big-hill-to-climb/#comment-128284</guid>
		<description>[...] astronomy, and Phil Plait&#8217;s views on Pluto differ from mine, and you should always read other people&#8217;s opinions, even when I don&#8217;t [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] astronomy, and Phil Plait&#8217;s views on Pluto differ from mine, and you should always read other people&#8217;s opinions, even when I don&#8217;t [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Leon A Davis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/29/plutos-big-hill-to-climb/comment-page-2/#comment-128164</link>
		<dc:creator>Leon A Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Oct 2008 19:27:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/29/plutos-big-hill-to-climb/#comment-128164</guid>
		<description>The proper definition of a planet is as follows: a body of sufficient mass to form a sphere  which orbits a star. However, if the orbital mass has been discovered by an American, then this definiton in non-operational. (please pass the chablis and brie...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The proper definition of a planet is as follows: a body of sufficient mass to form a sphere  which orbits a star. However, if the orbital mass has been discovered by an American, then this definiton in non-operational. (please pass the chablis and brie&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: IVAN3MAN</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/29/plutos-big-hill-to-climb/comment-page-2/#comment-122596</link>
		<dc:creator>IVAN3MAN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 05:01:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/29/plutos-big-hill-to-climb/#comment-122596</guid>
		<description>@ Lab Lemming

You&#039;re referring to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invariable_plane&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;Blue&quot;&gt;&lt;b&gt;invariable plane&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/a&gt;. All planetary orbital planes wobble around the invariable plane, and the inclination of the Earth&#039;s orbit has a 100,000-year cycle relative to the invariable plane, which varies from 0.1° to 3°. This cycle closely matches the 100,000-year pattern of ice ages.

It has been hypothesized that a disk of dust and other debris is in the invariable plane, and that this has influence on the Earth&#039;s climate. The Earth currently traverses this plane around January 9&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt; and July 9&lt;sup&gt;th&lt;/sup&gt;, when there is an increase in radar-detected meteors and meteor-related noctilucent clouds.*

&lt;font size=&quot;-2&quot;&gt;&lt;sup&gt;*&lt;/sup&gt;Source: Wikipedia -- &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;Blue&quot;&gt;Milankovitch cycles&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/font&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Lab Lemming</p>
<p>You&#8217;re referring to the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Invariable_plane" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><font color="Blue"><b>invariable plane</b></font></a>. All planetary orbital planes wobble around the invariable plane, and the inclination of the Earth&#8217;s orbit has a 100,000-year cycle relative to the invariable plane, which varies from 0.1° to 3°. This cycle closely matches the 100,000-year pattern of ice ages.</p>
<p>It has been hypothesized that a disk of dust and other debris is in the invariable plane, and that this has influence on the Earth&#8217;s climate. The Earth currently traverses this plane around January 9<sup>th</sup> and July 9<sup>th</sup>, when there is an increase in radar-detected meteors and meteor-related noctilucent clouds.*</p>
<p><font size="-2"><sup>*</sup>Source: Wikipedia &#8212; <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><font color="Blue">Milankovitch cycles</font></a>.</font></p>
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		<title>By: Lab Lemming</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/29/plutos-big-hill-to-climb/comment-page-2/#comment-122585</link>
		<dc:creator>Lab Lemming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 03:31:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/29/plutos-big-hill-to-climb/#comment-122585</guid>
		<description>&quot;Au contraire, mon ami. The planetary plane is determined by the Sun’s equator&quot;

Why?  Shouldn&#039;t it be the plane that defines the solar system&#039;s net angular momentum?  That would be (approximately) the orbit of Jupiter- with a dash of Saturn thrown in, and Mercury still fail.

KC: The LHB happened half a billion years after accretion finished.  My point is that the assumption that planetary orbits must be stable is probably not valid.

@ Greg: Mercury does have a tail.  It isn&#039;t very bright, but there are plenty of pictures of it floating around the web.  Pluto is an icy planet just like Triton, Ganymede, Enceladus, etc.  It is big, round, and has a geologic history.  Comets meet none of those criteria.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Au contraire, mon ami. The planetary plane is determined by the Sun’s equator&#8221;</p>
<p>Why?  Shouldn&#8217;t it be the plane that defines the solar system&#8217;s net angular momentum?  That would be (approximately) the orbit of Jupiter- with a dash of Saturn thrown in, and Mercury still fail.</p>
<p>KC: The LHB happened half a billion years after accretion finished.  My point is that the assumption that planetary orbits must be stable is probably not valid.</p>
<p>@ Greg: Mercury does have a tail.  It isn&#8217;t very bright, but there are plenty of pictures of it floating around the web.  Pluto is an icy planet just like Triton, Ganymede, Enceladus, etc.  It is big, round, and has a geologic history.  Comets meet none of those criteria.</p>
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		<title>By: IVAN3MAN</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/29/plutos-big-hill-to-climb/comment-page-2/#comment-122572</link>
		<dc:creator>IVAN3MAN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 01:57:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/29/plutos-big-hill-to-climb/#comment-122572</guid>
		<description>@ Tom Marking

In the Kingdom of the Blind, the man with one good eye is King; however, where depth perception is required, he is handicapped.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Tom Marking</p>
<p>In the Kingdom of the Blind, the man with one good eye is King; however, where depth perception is required, he is handicapped.</p>
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		<title>By: IVAN3MAN</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/29/plutos-big-hill-to-climb/comment-page-2/#comment-122566</link>
		<dc:creator>IVAN3MAN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 00:40:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/09/29/plutos-big-hill-to-climb/#comment-122566</guid>
		<description>Laurel Kornfeld: 

&lt;blockquote&gt;If we make the #1 criterion for planethood be that an object orbits in the same plane as its entire planetary system, how do we classify exoplanet systems with planets orbiting in several different planes? Are none of them planets? Do we pick one and use its orbital plane, call that a planet, and the others not planets? By this criterion, we should demote Mercury, which has an orbit inclined to the plane of most of the solar system’s planets by about seven degrees.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;i&gt;Au contraire, mon ami&lt;/i&gt;. The planetary plane is determined by the Sun&#039;s equator, not the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecliptic&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;Blue&quot;&gt;ecliptic&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/a&gt; (which you&#039;re thinking of), and the orbital &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet#Solar_System&quot; target=&quot;_blank&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;Blue&quot;&gt;inclination to the Sun&#039;s equator&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/a&gt; of the 8 major planets are: Mercury -- 3.38°; Venus -- 3.86°; Earth -- 7.25°; Mars -- 5.65°; Jupiter -- 6.09°; Saturn -- 5.51°; Uranus -- 6.48°; Neptune -- 6.43°. All well within 8°.

Whereas the orbital inclination of Pluto to the Sun’s equator is 11.88° (O.K., not much, but a benchmark has to be set somewhere), and its orbital eccentricity makes it an oddball, as I have already stated above. 

As for your hypothesis of extra-solar planets in eccentric orbits, I don’t think it is a coincidence that all the major 8 planets of the Solar System orbit more or less within the planetary plane -- &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_formation#Protoplanetary_disks&quot; target=&quot;_blank” rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;font color=&quot;Blue&quot;&gt;Protoplanetary disc&lt;/font&gt;&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Laurel Kornfeld: </p>
<blockquote><p>If we make the #1 criterion for planethood be that an object orbits in the same plane as its entire planetary system, how do we classify exoplanet systems with planets orbiting in several different planes? Are none of them planets? Do we pick one and use its orbital plane, call that a planet, and the others not planets? By this criterion, we should demote Mercury, which has an orbit inclined to the plane of most of the solar system’s planets by about seven degrees.</p></blockquote>
<p><i>Au contraire, mon ami</i>. The planetary plane is determined by the Sun&#8217;s equator, not the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecliptic" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><font color="Blue">ecliptic</font></a> (which you&#8217;re thinking of), and the orbital <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet#Solar_System" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><font color="Blue">inclination to the Sun&#8217;s equator</font></a> of the 8 major planets are: Mercury &#8212; 3.38°; Venus &#8212; 3.86°; Earth &#8212; 7.25°; Mars &#8212; 5.65°; Jupiter &#8212; 6.09°; Saturn &#8212; 5.51°; Uranus &#8212; 6.48°; Neptune &#8212; 6.43°. All well within 8°.</p>
<p>Whereas the orbital inclination of Pluto to the Sun’s equator is 11.88° (O.K., not much, but a benchmark has to be set somewhere), and its orbital eccentricity makes it an oddball, as I have already stated above. </p>
<p>As for your hypothesis of extra-solar planets in eccentric orbits, I don’t think it is a coincidence that all the major 8 planets of the Solar System orbit more or less within the planetary plane &#8212; <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_formation#Protoplanetary_disks" target="_blank” rel="nofollow"><font color="Blue">Protoplanetary disc</font></a>.</p>
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