Comments on: The Big Picture: Baikonur

By: Links and Video of the Week (2008/40) :: cimddwc

Links and Video of the Week (2008/40) :: cimddwc — Sun, 05 Oct 2008 11:18:08 +0000

[...] Phantastic photos from the Baikonur space center (via Bad Astronomy). [...]

By: mdmadph

mdmadph — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 19:02:59 +0000

You know, IANAL, but if your site doesn’t qualify for an education-based “Fair-Use” exemption under copyright law, I don’t know what does. Go ahead and post whatever picture you want — even if it is copyrighted, the worst they can do at first is just ask you to take it down.

By: Aleksandar

Aleksandar — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 14:51:49 +0000

Buran was a sad story. Engineers created a dozen better proposals, but the party leadership ordered a system as close to US space shuttle as possible, to prevent any rumors and PR stories about Soviet hardware being inferior coming from them adopting some other system.

But they still managed to do it much better by making Energia the launch vehicle and Buran just the payload. Zenith/Energia combos and derivations could have been used in configurations with payload capacities from 10 tons to 150 tons. Using similar hardware for all your launchers would have eventually cut down the price, and they had plans for first stage and boosters reusability.

By: Ray

Ray — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 13:12:51 +0000

Larian,

A lot of the older tech stuff was way over-engineered in the days when sliderules and simple computers were the rule.

For instance, the 707s that my unit flies were designed in the 50s and built in the 60s. Heavy for their size, but they never break.

By: KVT

KVT — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 05:11:23 +0000

You know politics and people’s personal beliefs of Russia aside, you gotta admit that the Soviet program created a lot of firsts. Aside from the first satellite, animal, man, and woman in space there were plenty of other notable firsts. But more importantly, the Soviets pioneered long term space travel and the use of space as a place of research with the Salyut space stations (of which there were 6, I believe) and subsequently Mir (which served the USSR, Russia, and the US for 10 years). Meanwhile the Proton launch vehicle is one of the most reliable in the world today. And Soyuz and its sister craft, the robotic Progress, not only launched the more astronauts than any other craft but helped keep the ISS going while the shuttles were grounded after Discovery.

I guess I’m just saying that you gotta give the Russians credit for doing all of this without all the niceties that NASA has…like money : P

By: Andy Craig

Andy Craig — Wed, 01 Oct 2008 01:34:14 +0000

You’d think by now they would have cleared out all the old Buran stuff, particularly since they obviously aren’t bothering to take care of it or anything.

Maybe they’re just not as concerned as NASA with having a photogenic launch site.

By: justcorbly

justcorbly — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:43:18 +0000

GloomyGus:

It irks me when people blame “NASA’s blunders” for things like the upcoming Shuttle gap. It is not NASA’s fault that the Shuttle is retiring five years before Ares flies Blame Bush for that. He gave NASA additional tasking — return to the Moon and prepare for Mars — with no increase in budget. The money had to come from somewhere. If it wasn’t the Shuttle getting the chop, it might have the robotic planetary exploratin program. If you don’t want the gap, call Washington and tell them to send more money to NASA.

Shane:

I may be wrong, but I do not believe Russia has developed any fundamentally new vehicles or spacecraft since the fall of the USSR. They have continued to refine hardware inherited from the Soviets, often with NASA money and assistance, but the Soyuz vehicle and capsule seen in these photos could be seen 25 years ago.

The Buran:

If memory serves, one vehicle flew on one unpiloted one-orbit flight before the program was cancelled.

By: JB of Brisbane

JB of Brisbane — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 22:05:36 +0000

I seem to remember parts of an unused N-1 launcher – the Soviet moon-rocket comparable to the Saturn V – were erected as park “furniture” in the town where the Baikonur workers live. Someone might like to flesh this out a bit.

By: Wayne

Wayne — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:53:20 +0000

IIRC, the only flown Buran was destroyed in a hanger roof collapse a few years ago. Too bad they never put it in a museum.

By: Leon

Leon — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 19:51:19 +0000

Didn’t the actual Buran end up in a park somewhere? Or am I thinking of a different Soviet vehicle — like their SST maybe?

Not the shuttle itself, but one of the testing modules did end up as an attraction in Gorki Park:

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/spacecraft/q0153.shtml

By: Elmar_M

Elmar_M — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:43:44 +0000

Yeah, the buran was a political decision by the Soviet union, they had to counter the US Shuttle somehow.
They had other and IMHO better designs that they did not use in the end.

By: Donnie B.

Donnie B. — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:24:31 +0000

Dang, Algirdas beat me to my comment.

Didn’t the actual Buran end up in a park somewhere? Or am I thinking of a different Soviet vehicle — like their SST maybe?

Remind me to ask Jay Windley about the engine configuration on that launch vehicle. It looks like the 20 main engines are fixed, and only the smaller engines are gimbaled. I wonder if this makes the control algorithms simpler, or more complex.

By: Donnie B.

Donnie B. — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:18:15 +0000

Did anybody else notice the Buran in the background of the embedded picture? (The caption at the Globe site says it’s a mockup.)

Wow, not a lot of legroom in that Soyuz capsule! It looks like you’re almost in a fetal position when launched.

By: Algirdas

Algirdas — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 18:16:33 +0000

Well, now that I learned to read the captions over at Boston Globe’s site – they say it is a mockup, not the actual Buran. Too bad.

The pictures I saw before are at “English Russia” site, but they appear to be of the same mockup. Wikipedia says that the actual spacecraft has been destroyed.

By: Algirdas

Algirdas — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:58:32 +0000

In photo #11 (the one that is shown minimized here on BA site) there appears to be a space shuttle of some sort in the background. Must be an old russian Buran in its final parking spot (I seem to recall some pictures of it from some other website – elements have taken their toll, the spacecraft didn’t look in usable condition).

By: shane

shane — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:53:32 +0000

Elmar_M, 1. I meant it appears that only the female cosmonaut received the flowers whereas all the taikonauts got flowers – I saw a video of the Chinese landing yesterday.
2. You’re probably right about the pen/pencil story. I thought the story was apocryphal, an urban legend.

By: Elmar_M

Elmar_M — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:44:16 +0000

Shane, please forgive me, but you got two things wrong:
1. I think you are mixing up the russian cosmonauts with the chinese Taikonauts?
2. Both were using pencils at first, but pencils need to be sharpened every now and then and the sharpening as well the normal use produces particles in the air, which you want to avoid in a zero gravity environment. Also the pen was not developed under a government contract, but independendly. The russians meanwhile use a simillar pen, to be best of my knowledge.
Like all politicians Putin is a child of its time, just like the US had a radicalization of their politics in the last 8 years as well. Putin became president because Jelzin was weak and let things slide. Russia is waaay to big and almost impossible to govern. Under Jelzin the mafia was everywhere and people were fleeing to the West (e.g. my country)in order to escape mafia terror and corrupt local politicians. I personally know people like that. I dont know whether things improved with Putin though. There still seems a lot of corruption in Russia up to this day. Lets just hope that future elections make things better in both Russia (and the US too).

By: shane

shane — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:28:53 +0000

When the Soviet Union collapsed I initially thought that was it for their space program. But not they’ve gone from strength to strength. I suppose it is a bit like the apocryphal story of the expensive NASA designed zero g pen and the Russian solution being a pencil.

By: shane

shane — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:22:36 +0000

GloomyGus said: “We can argue that the Soviet Union fell”
Or we could just take in the pretty pictures.

By: madge

madge — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:19:38 +0000

You gotta say when Russia builds it builds to last. Soyuz has been the workhorse of the space programme. Great pix

By: GloomyGus

GloomyGus — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:14:48 +0000

Sorry, that should have read: “as science marches” not “as science 1 march” that the fingers originally danced out.

By: GloomyGus

GloomyGus — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:12:55 +0000

Great pictures, but I have a bad feeling about this. We can argue that the Soviet Union fell, or we can argue that it simply went into hibernation and is now rousing itself once more to something no more palatable. Mr. Putin, a great admirer of the late Soviet Union, is not our friend and has shown a willingness to subsume everything in the pursuit of power for Greater Russia, or whatever it is calling itself these days. Of course, this may work out and as we join hands in this time of crisis to reach for the heavens, the bad days will be left behind as science l march forward triumphantly. Just as likely, however, and perhaps even more so, is that Mr. Putin will use this near monopoly of access for maximum leverage and will do everything he can to make this country pay dearly for NASA’s blunders.

By: Larian LeQuella

Larian LeQuella — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:11:32 +0000

Is it just me, or does anyone else marvel at the ruggedness and functionality of these really old designs? In my work on missiles and other USAF Programs, I am always amazed that a design from the 50′s has a better reliability than all the new digital stuff we are making now. Same could be said for the Russian stuff.

By: shane

shane — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:08:57 +0000

In completely OT news an astronomer, Penny Sackett, has been named Australia’s chief scientist.
“The Federal Government announced yesterday it had appointed the American-born astronomer as Australia’s chief scientist and was upgrading the post to a full-time position.”
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/astronomer-announced-as-new-chief-scientist/2008/09/30/1222651085451.html

By: changcho

changcho — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 17:03:02 +0000

The Souz is a very well designed launch vehicle- it has been modified over the years, but the core of it dates back to the early Soviet space program. In fact, its first stage is a direct descendant of the R7, which is the rocket that put Sputnik in orbit in ’57.