Regular readers know I have a big crush on Pamela Gay, aka Star Stryder. I suspect her husband knows this as well, but he’s also a great guy who knows a) I am harmless, and b) he can kill me with a single thought.
But it can’t hurt for me to butter him up a little. He and Pamela are both tech-junkies. They have Macs littering their house, and lots of other fun things. But they’re having a problem with their more basic tech: the water heater is on the fritz. For some reason, the pilot light keeps going out, and they don’t know why.
So Mr. Star Stryder did what any modern person would do: he pointed a webcam at the pilot light and is now streaming video of it.
In fact, take a look!
[Edited to add: I removed the embedded video because the noise was bugging people.]
Is it on? Good! If not, send him a Tweet. Tell him I sent you, and help save my life.
… or, you can just sit and be mesmerized by the blue flaminess of the stream. That’s fun too.
Ah, teh intertoobs. Is there nothing they can’t do?
October 3rd, 2008 at 2:13 pm
Will Wollowitz control their appliances too?
If the pilot light is lit by an electric switch or something, we can blame it on Mercury! Tell them they need to suck it up until the 15th or so.
October 3rd, 2008 at 2:26 pm
Can’t see the video, but I bet a dollar it’s the thermocouple.
October 3rd, 2008 at 2:30 pm
Heh… “pilot episode”…
Now, what would be really impressive is if we on the Internet could re-light it for him in the event that it goes out.
October 3rd, 2008 at 2:32 pm
Darn, Larian beat me to it! I just read Helen Popkin’s funny column on MSNBC with our own BA. Must be Mercury retrograde!!
October 3rd, 2008 at 2:32 pm
I do building automation. I could rig something up for him.
Of course, if you’re going to go to that expense, I could rig it up to re-light itself. At the very least, I could set it up to send him an email when it goes out.
I see the thermocouple has already been replaced. As long as you have the webcam on it, record it and see what happens when it does go out.
October 3rd, 2008 at 2:48 pm
they don’t know why
LHC black holes snuffed the flames, I tells ya.
October 3rd, 2008 at 2:48 pm
Bah! Who has a water heater with a pilot any more? The thing is probably old enough that it’s ready to be replaced with one with electronic ignition and a power vent.
October 3rd, 2008 at 3:04 pm
“MASSENA, N.Y. – A group of parents and religious leaders in upstate New York want yoga classes out of public schools, saying the instruction violates boundaries between church and state.”
more at:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27008935/
PS. sorry for offtopic
October 3rd, 2008 at 3:13 pm
When they said the web will change our lives they weren’t kidding! Little did I suspect when I was a kid that one day I would be sitting at work in Mass. intently watching some guy’s water heater in Illinois, and getting so much out of it!
October 3rd, 2008 at 3:20 pm
What drksy says… a water heater should be replaced about every ten years. The hot water eventually, combined with the minerals in the water tend to corrode bits in the tank (which is why there is a sacrificial magnesium rod inside). It is usually better to replace the water heater before there is catastrophic failure (flood or even worse: blocking the relief valve which will turn it into a steam powered projectile as demonstrated by the Mythbusters).
October 3rd, 2008 at 3:38 pm
This takes me back to my childhood.
My Dad had a darkroom in the basement, and sometimes I’d keep him company while he worked down there. During the intervals of total darkness, if I got bored, I’d grope around until I got to the incinerator and watch its pilot light — the only light source in the inky darkness. It was comforting, somehow.
(There was a black plastic sheet around the darkroom area, so the dim light from the pilot wouldn’t ruin the undeveloped film or print.)
October 3rd, 2008 at 4:00 pm
We have here the makings of Schrödinger’s Pilot Light: A water heater, along with a tank containing water, is sealed in a white vertical cylinder that has insulation trapping the heat and also negating an occasional quantum decoherence. If a thermometer detects a sudden gain or loss of heat, that means someone turned on the hot water requiring the pilot light to active the burner or if the tank is leaking, released water kills the flame. Over time Quantum mechanics implies that the pilot light is both simultaneously on and off. Yet, when we all look at the streaming video, we see the flame either on or off, not both.
October 3rd, 2008 at 4:02 pm
Why is the Hypnotoad — All glory to the Hypnotoad! — on the soundtrack?
Uh… Uh… All glory to the Water Heater!
October 3rd, 2008 at 4:09 pm
You lost me at the mention of having Macs “littering their house”. Although I can imagine that’s a pretty accurate statement, as I too would consider a Mac a piece of litter begging to be disposed of.
October 3rd, 2008 at 4:11 pm
He needs to replace the thermocouple if it hasn’t already been done, and clean the orifice in the pilot, a little running water will do just fine.
I would clean the entire burner.
October 3rd, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Well – at the very least, he has something wrong with the air or gas flow in there – the main burner should not be yellow. As the main burner is running, some of that yellow flame imparts as well to the pilot. My initial uneducated guess is that he has a vent restriction (the thing is old enough, apparently) or improper gas flow.
Dangerous either way. And yeah – swap that thing out for an electric starter.
JC
October 3rd, 2008 at 4:24 pm
So I had to explain why the Hypno Toad was blaring from m my computer to the guy with whom I share my office. He thinks this is the absolute nerdiest way to resolve a problem with a water heater’s pilot light. I, however, think that someone reading this blog can think of an even nerdier method…
October 3rd, 2008 at 4:27 pm
Is that a Japanese manufactured boiler? Very dangerous — Kamikaze pilot light!
October 3rd, 2008 at 4:52 pm
Seems to be working fine now. What’s all the fuss?
October 3rd, 2008 at 5:04 pm
I have a suggestion; also have a webcam aimed at their turn signal. Same idea; see if it’s working!
‘Yes it is, no it isn’t, yes it is, no it isn’t….”
October 3rd, 2008 at 5:35 pm
There’s two sentences you don’t often see juxtaposed.
October 3rd, 2008 at 5:41 pm
“b) he can kill me with a single thought.”
Well, he’ll still need a tray.
October 3rd, 2008 at 6:08 pm
The soundtrack’s kinda monotonous…
I’ve been following Pam’s agonizing on twitter about this (she doesn’t follow me… was it something I said?
)
Hope it gets fixed soon (the hot water thingie)….
October 3rd, 2008 at 6:22 pm
JackC, that’s prolly due to dust and crud in the burner. They shouldn’t run it without the cover, either.
Heck, I would prolly just replace the thing outright.
October 3rd, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Interesting…when I first opened this page, there where 95 people watching the feed, and it went down to 94 as I was reading the post. By the time I’d finished reading the comments, it was up to 100. Whoa, 102 now.
Amazing how many people are simultaneously bored…
(back to 96)
October 3rd, 2008 at 6:38 pm
Still on!
October 3rd, 2008 at 6:45 pm
Any HW heater that still has a standing pilot is too old to be thinking about repair as the tank is probably close to failure anyway. Replace the thing and call it a day.
October 3rd, 2008 at 6:55 pm
feroxx,
I keep telling you I don’t need a tray. I’m Darth Vader and I don’t need a… OK, I’ll have a tray.
LOL
October 3rd, 2008 at 7:13 pm
I believe others have already said this, but I’ll restate it – the thermocouple is probably bad, or going bad. They are generally easy to replace, you can get the parts at your local home store.
Here’s an article on how to replace it yourself
http://www.rd.com/advice-and-know-how/no-more-hot-water-restore-it-without-calling-in-a-pro/article10816.html
October 3rd, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Get a bloody condensing boiler already!
October 3rd, 2008 at 7:36 pm
HCN:
Water heaters can have a longer life than ten years. The oldest I’ve seen in continuous operation was an electric water heater installed in 1948. Modern glass-lined water heaters have the added advantage of not rusting out.
However, electric water heaters at least can collect a good deal of sediment in direct proportion to water hardness and in inverse proportion to the size of the heating elements. This must be cleaned out periodically. This is why it’s recommend to flush water heater regularly.
Getting to the problem at hand, NEVER monkey around with gas unless you know exactly what you’re doing. What Mr. and Mrs. Gay should do is to call their gas company. Pronto. This is NOT something to put off.
October 3rd, 2008 at 7:58 pm
Yeah, X2 on the gas line, I forget that not everyone has a much experience as I do with it.
October 3rd, 2008 at 8:04 pm
When our hot water heater pilot light would keep going out it was because wasps had filled the air vent to the gas regulator on the outside of the house with mud. No longer able to tell the air pressure when the burner turned on the regulator wouldn’t adjust fast enough and the gas pressure drops turning everything off. Clear the vent pipe and all would be fine. Usually happened in the fall. Gas company would even send out notices about this with the bill it was so common. I lived about 400 miles NW of St. Louis so she may not have the wasps that caused our problem but still think it worth checking.
Rick
October 3rd, 2008 at 9:40 pm
Ill concur with the thermocouple hypothosis. The ‘ sacrificial magnesium rod inside’ idea falls down, as its not an electric water heater, but a gas one.
As for replacing the whole tank? Reduce reuse recycle. If all it takes is a $15 part to keep the equipment up and running, then get as much life out of it you can.
One good test of the life potential of the tank is to bleed off the water from the base (which should be done every year anyways) and check what types of deposits are being left. Calcium, and other salts are common, but if they are getting quite a bit of iron oxide, then it might be time to switch the unit out.
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:24 pm
Shouldn’t there be some kind of cover over that bit? We had one like that, missing a cover and the wind kept blowing it out – we put a cover on it and it’s been fine ever since. But I’m no expert – I’m just bored as well…
October 3rd, 2008 at 10:59 pm
Nobody else has said it, so I’ll bite. Ah hem.
“A watched pilot light never goes out”
Thank you!
October 3rd, 2008 at 11:14 pm
If they replace in line water heating would be more energy saving than a standing tank.
October 4th, 2008 at 12:32 am
By all means repair it yourself, explosions are always fun. Waking up in the morning to find you have died from carbon monoxide poisoning is less dramatic but easier on the neighbours.
October 4th, 2008 at 1:16 am
I’m sorry, but “Star Stryder” would be a be such an awesome porn star name…
I’ll go away now.
October 4th, 2008 at 2:07 am
Sounds like you need a cold shower Phil….. Anyway, get in line. We all know she’s hot. She’s sexy, highly intelligent and loves astronomy.
October 4th, 2008 at 6:25 am
Umm… they need to buy a new water heater. That one looks way too old to still be in use. Rust on a water heater is never good.
October 4th, 2008 at 7:12 am
Spot the TechHead.
Problem.
Boiler not working problem:
TechHead Solution- rig web cam
Non tech head solution – Call plumber, get it fixed properly.
When my toilet cister kept overflowing I could have rigged a water level detector to flush it as needed. Instead I spent £5 and replaced the inlet assembly.
(When my boiler wouldn’t light it was the automatic cut out- the water pump had failed upstairs, so there was no water pressure.)
October 4th, 2008 at 8:51 am
I agree with calls to replace it. A newer one will be considerably more efficient and will pay for itself over the course of 4 or 5 years in energy savings. You also get the considerable benefit of changing it out on your terms, rather than waking up one morning to go to work to find out you have to get a cold shower.
October 4th, 2008 at 9:09 am
Glad to see that Pam and Mr. Pam are still there… or at least, their blue flame is still there. This could be a metaphor for modern love and marriage or something… I dunno… it sounds all ambient and everything…
wanders off to check the boiler on our burner
October 4th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
I posted an idea in Mr.Starstryder’s blog, but figured perhaps some of you could enjoy the idea as well — check out WebcamXP, in its pro version (yes, paid, but not a lot), it has a motion detector that can send an email, upload images to FTP or custom-reaction whenever something in the picture changes.
It might help at least knowing when the light’s out without having to stare at the screen or periodically check the feed (or hope others do).
And if emails are available in the cellphone, one can also set up an alert so they know almost-instantenously, from anywhere, that their water heater’s broke.
Might not solve the problem, but can help analyzing it. And.. it’s ubergeeky, so that’s a win all by itself.
Cheers
October 4th, 2008 at 2:40 pm
@Yoeman: Yes – that would be the normal way of seeing it (scale on the burner) – except – watch the pilot when the main is burning. First, the main seems to be burning poorly. Next, when the main is burning poorly, the pilot begins to take on some of that yellowish flame as well. Finally, when the main is extinguished AFTER a main burn, the pilot – on it’s own – exhibits some yellowish flame that it does not have after the main has been off for some time. I therefore discount scale or dust, and the burner actually looks pretty clean – though admittedly, this isn’t the best view.
My conclusion – as some above have stated – vent restriction in the chimney somewhere.
Yes – the unit should be replaced, but it is human nature – and sometimes necessity – to not do so as long as the dang thing is mostly working. The teensie point that they could die in a fiery explosion seems not to deter the tendency.
I am somewhat put-off with their site suggestion that we all contribute to their heater replacement fund. Do they work for the Federal Government or something?
JC
October 4th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Aaaaaarrgh!
I’ve just spent ten minutes on my hands and knees checking all my cables trying to figure out where that humming noise was coming from! I thought my computer was about to explode or something. It stopped as soon as I closed this page, which led me to the culprit – that pilot light video that loaded automatically in Opera when I booted up.
Thanks Phil – I could have done without that!
October 4th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Hmm most interesting. Perhaps your friend would be interesting in the works of DanielWs work on almost the same thing. He uses an old s60 telephone to measure the flame and stream the result to his computer. Then calculating the level of blueness of the flame and feeding that to a SQL DB. According to his blog he will mail out the source to anybody interested in doing something similar.
http://blog.danielwinter.de/archives/13
October 4th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Being at the bottom of these comments, this my never be read, however, I felt compelled to chime in here. Having been a builder in the past, I recall an article in a building magazine that listed “10 Stupid things builders do” or something… Anyhow, one of the stupidest things is putting a stack vent water heater which relies on the convection of warm air to draw the exhaust up the flue and out of the house. There is always a 2-3″ air gap between the appliance and vent which could be a source for a major carbon monoxide leak into the house.
Power vent or Direct vent is the only way to go to ensure the safety of those in the house.
Buy a new water heater, and grab a CO detector fer Pete’s sake while your at it.
October 4th, 2008 at 5:08 pm
Please please Phil, make this auto-playing humming sound disappear !
Cool idea for a webcam, but this water heater is INSANELY DANGEROUS ! Electric water heaters are cheap, so why the hell risk a gas leak and a giant kaaaa-boom ?
Thanks from France for your wonderful blog. It’s a pleasure reading your articles !
October 4th, 2008 at 9:31 pm
Call your gas company. Whether you are online or using a tank, your fuel supplier will be able to help you, and it is a good idea to go with them. A lot of gas suppliers include basic service in their contract, so it may not even cost anything. You don’t want to screw around. There are all sorts of catastrophic results possible ranging from explosions to carbon monoxide poisoning. Since this is a water heater, you have to add flooding to the mix. Remember, CO is colorless, so it doesn’t show up on webcams.
October 4th, 2008 at 9:43 pm
Wooaa, I feel like I’m in the twilight zone, a week ago my water heater pilot light went out… and now when I relight it, it only stays lit for about a day before going out… I’ve been washing dishes with cold water
. Also, I have 8 macs and 2 pcs littering MY house.
I think I’m just going to buy a new energy star electric water heater though, I’m sick of gas…
October 4th, 2008 at 10:48 pm
I prefer the flamy blueness.
October 4th, 2008 at 11:51 pm
KC said “Water heaters can have a longer life than ten years. The oldest I’ve seen in continuous operation was an electric water heater installed in 1948. Modern glass-lined water heaters have the added advantage of not rusting out.”
Okay… though I read that the glass lining fails at connections and valves. Though we did not replace our water heater until it was 14 year old.
By the way our gas water heater is in the same small (well ventilated) room as the furnace. It is in the basement next to the basement bathroom, and it has a drain in the floor. There is a small piece of scrap garden hose attached to the bottom faucet on the water heater (look at yours, water heaters can serve as emergency water supplies, also it is where the glass lining is not possible so it may get rust there). Every so often I go down and drain some of the water to flush it.
My in-laws have come home to an inch of water in their basement from a failed water heater… they don’t have a utility room drain.
Oh, and Will… several years ago one of the electric heating units in my in-laws water heater decided to stop working. So they also had cold water. I am the one who discovered since we were staying there while we were fixing up a house we bought prior to moving in. So after a long day of scraping paint, pulling off wall paper and tearing out bind weed… I got to shower in cold water.
October 5th, 2008 at 1:50 am
@Elwood Herring: Ditto, spent five minutes trying to figure out why my Eee PC were making a funny noise. Didn’t have to do it on my hands and knees though, just lifted it above my head looking underneath it.
October 5th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Thomas Siefert and Elwood Herring… Again ditto. I usually have my speakers off, and dear hubby just had to replace a hard drive in his desktop. I thought my hard drive on my five year old laptop was crashing… So I backed it up. False alarm… this machine is still going strong.
October 5th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
Having an open flame in the house is scary. Tell them to get themselves an electric water heater!
October 6th, 2008 at 12:41 am
@ioresult While overall Electric Water Heaters are more efficient then gas heaters, because electricity is more expensive then gas per BTU, electric heater cost a much more to run in the long term. Electrics also have a lot lower FHR (first hour rating) so while a family of four could get by with a 40gal gas heater they would need a 80gal electric. So you have to sit there and keep a lot more water hot at all times. So basically electric heaters suck.
Your best bet now a days is a tankless gas water heater. While they are more expensive to buy they cost you a lot less in the long run.