SpikeNut

I’d like to know if the survey question was open-ended or multiple choice, and if the latter, what the other choices were.

I now teach high school, so am a science teacher rather than a scientist. But I hope that I influence more kids to become scientists rather than models.

And thanks.

Seriously though, I think blogs like yours, Skepchick, Skepbitch, etc. are going to give a whole generation of kids the ability to find more suitable role models. I would have given anything to have Skepchick blog posts in junior high and high school.

While I agree that science needs more women

Why? Is there some grand, important reason that the scientific community, however you define that, should be, say, 50% female? Some other percentage? What’s the magic number? I hear this a lot in the media: “Profession A” needs more of “Human Type B”, but I never hear anyone state exactly WHY other than a need to make the percentage match that of the general population. What is the expected benefit and is there empirical data to back it up?

Personally I’d rather hear Carolyn Porco speak and be in a conversation with her rather than Paris H but I’m betting I’d be the exception in RL if not necesarily here on the BAF

I challenge that. Hilton is generally treated like a ridiculous clown in the media and as a source of derisive entertainment. You really think there are many people (outside of her teen female fan base) who would really care about talking to her? As for Carolyn Porco, what would the average person talk to her about? The spectroscopy of Neptune?

Fun fact: I walked right by Paris Hilton in the Hard Rock casino in Vegas two years ago and would not have known it if not for the bodyguards and one of my friends saying, “that was Paris Hilton.”

On the other hand, given life’s notorious shortness, shouldn’t girls be encouraged to become exactly what they want — not manipulated into becoming what others think they should be?

Now, now, FL! Around these parts it’s irresponsible to suggest that anyone other than a scientist can have a useful and productive life. Shame on you! Some poor impressionable girl might read your comment and decide to not go into molecular biology and instead become a (eek!) lawyer or (gasp!) a business person!

Or what about the percentage of girls who’d like to become both models AND scientists – either concurrently or at different times in their careers /lives?

Are there any models who practice science in some form as well?
Are there any scientists who are also models – and not just ‘role’ models?

I don’t know I just thought this worth raising.

I still think its a worry that more girls want to be known for their phyisical appearnce -and make alivingoff their physical appearnce than their minds and thatour society seems to value looks over brains.

What do we pay more attention to and reward with more fame and money? What is hiugher in our social standings – a model or a scientist? If we put Paris Hilton in a room with Carolyn Porco who would get more attention?

I think the answers to these questions are somewhat disturbing and say not much that’s good about our priorities and values as a culture, society or species.

(Personally I’d rather hear Carolyn Porco speak and be in a conversation with her rather than Paris H but I’m betting I’d be the exception in RL if not necesarily here on the BAF.)

The moral of this story?

Danged if I know!

In particular, women are lost at each transition step — from High School to College,from College to Graduate School, and especially from the PhD to Tenure Track positions. In a recent talk I heard on the attrition of women from sciences, Jo Handelsman told us that she’s heard many tragic stories of how isolated women are once they get tenure. No wonder there are fewer women scientists than there are girls with interest and aptitude.

She eventually graduated high school, but never found that man to keep her… Nor did she find much in the way of employment either… it seems that employers don’t want airheads with no education and few skills.

In her late 20′s she went back to school and became a nurse, so I suppose it all worked out.

Multifaceted humans are our norm. Robert Heinlien put it rather succinctly when he said (in describing humans) “,,,specialization is for insects,,,

GAry 7

Genetic predisposition may or may not be a factor in choice of occupation. We HAVE found a genetic predisposition toward being liberal or conservative in our attitudes which, when applied to pure survival, makes some sense. The desire to see what’s over the next hill can be lethal (liberal inclination) but so can the desire to hold on to the tried and true (conservative), especially when some new environmental challenge develops. Our species has developed in a balance of attitudes, between petting the pretty wolf and making a friend of it or killing and eating it. We are obviously complex beings and with the numerous choices available to us in this society are often torn between our possible choices. Just because we have a specific inclination doesn’t mean we can’t go against the grain though it’s been said, you know you’ve found your bliss when (what you’ve chosen to do) feels easy and natural and makes you happy.

There are approximately 300,000 different jobs descriptions in America. Have fun finding the one that appeals to you.

Peace,

GAry 7

I got my degree in medical technology and went right to work with my test tubes, Bunsen burner, and Ehrlenmeyer flasks Working in a clinical lab probably doesn’t meet some definition of “scientist,” since I stopped with a BS and didn’t go into academia and research. But it is what I always wanted to do and guaranteed me a profession where I could move to almost any community and get a job. I didn’t want a degree that wouldn’t give me a job — my father was an unskilled laborer who suffered through a period of minimal employment when I was in jr. high school. I never wanted to go through that.

Quite a few talented women went into nursing and from there are deeply involved in medical R&D. And far more women are in medicine these days (I think the medical school balance has actually now tipped to a slight majority of female). At our VA medical center, the staff physicians are encouraged and expected to conduct research and bring in research funding. Do you define these people as “scientists?”

I think shows like CSI can excite both girls and boys to careers in the lab. But my profession is comparatively low pay (RNs make a bit more) and the state lab and forensics labs pay even less than hospital labs. Meanwhile, the medical research techs make beans, about what a certified nursing assistant makes! It really makes you wonder about the quality of work when you are employing people for the same wage as someone with no college.

We’re all born with most of our desires and personality traits wired in”

I’m sorry, but that is an incredibly ignorant thing to say. Are you seriously suggesting that there is something biological about the jobs that we have socially defined as falling under our definitions of masculine/feminine? That right out of the gates, my brother was more genetically predisposed to becoming a hockey player and my sister a schoolteacher? Not only do I disagree fervently, but I think I might actually find that to be incredibly offensive (luckily, I won’t loose sleep over this), arrogant and igornant.

I think they’re going to get disproportionate results in any survey. Nonetheless, more kids saying they want to be scientists means more kids *interested* in science, and that’s a good thing.

I know lots of girls just don’t go for science because as one said so loudly plant bio: “I don’t know why anyone would study plants, they don’t do any good.”

The girls I know are all going for dental hygiene, and social work degrees, not chemistry, physics, biology.

I just read your comment, and I hear you. My family hasn’t cut my funding yet, but my father wants me to pursue chemical engineering rather than the basic science of chemistry.

I sense (though the medium of type can be misleading) that you’re considering changing your major.

My advice: Soldier on, if it’s what you really want to do. Read the blog “How I’m Becoming an Astronaut” if you want to see how far a dream can take you. If you have the ability and the desire, it shouldn’t be squandered. If you walk out of the ordeal having received no support whatsoever from your parents, so be it. You’re your own person, your parents don’t have to live with the degree you end up with, you do.

I’ve met students, former engineers, students with bachelors’ degrees in a few of my undergrad classes. Talking with them, they all made a bad choice based on things other than the reality of the professions or their hopes and dreams. So if you can’t imagine being anything except a physicist, why be anything else? If tuition is a problem, then you may have to drop out for a brief period of time to raise the necessary funds, or go to a cheaper school. They say it doesn’t matter where you did your undergrad anyway. If your father sees that you will not renege on the promise you made yourself, he will may compelled to support you despite his own well-intentioned desires for you future.

“NEED MORE DATA!

Typical scientist response isn’t it?”

See my previous posts. It isn’t the quantity. It’s the quality, the methodology, and the context. The poll in this entry brings neither of those things that count. It is a terrible poll that tells us nothing.

NEED MORE DATA!

Typical scientist response isn’t it?