Comments on: Ice from the skies!

By: Maria Sanchez

Maria Sanchez — Sun, 23 Nov 2008 08:54:03 +0000

This is a topic, probably related with extreme atmospheric events, that was already studied by different authors:

See Megacryometeors:
http://tierra.rediris.es/megacryometeors

To my knowledge, several papers have been published in the following scientific journals:

Geotimes
Journal of Chromatography
AMBIO: Journal of the Human Environment
Journal of Atmospheric Chemistry
Journal of Environmental Monitoring

I think that there are evidence that their origin is atmospheric (upper troposphere).

Cheers,

Maria

By: Bud S.

Bud S. — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 13:53:56 +0000

Ice from the skies may be a topic in your book, Phil — I don’t know, since I’m only half way through. Great book, by the way. But I want to mention a typo that missed the final proofread. Page 149, last paragraph. “That meant it had to be a black hole; a 7-solar-mass-star would have been be easy to detect.”

By: Mad Hussein LOLscientist, FCD

Mad Hussein LOLscientist, FCD — Fri, 24 Oct 2008 04:29:06 +0000

Oh noes! Not more icy BMs!

One thing’s for sure: That’s one well-insulated attic!

By: Stark

Stark — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 22:38:30 +0000

Naomi – Yes, that was ice. A little bit of leading edge ice-formation at altitude is not at all unusual and poses no risk to the aircraft. Typically de-icing systems would not be engaged for just some minor leading edge icing. Ice becomes a problem when it begins to build up on the surface of the wings – which increases weight quite a bit and will eventually result in control surfaces icing over. Iced control surfaces are a Very Bad Thing – a crash causing thing.

By: Swordfish

Swordfish — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 21:20:59 +0000

Ah, well, I guess I just didn’t notice the air traffic while I was out there. I also haven’t been out there for any real length of time since I graduated in May, so I could have easily forgotten too.

By: David S.

David S. — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 20:37:56 +0000

BethK, thanks as well for the York Dispatch link, as I hadn’t seen it yet. I’m the microbiologist at York College. We’ll likely melt some of the ice as cleanly as possible, however it has been handled quite a lot, and we’ll have to be careful to eliminate surface contamination. If it is something dropped from a plane or a hailstone, it’ll likely have lots of organisms, many of which are unculturable, so we’ll stain a sample with a DNA binding dye to visualize bacteria.

In regards to the homeowners’ insurance question above; I asked that as well of the Fosters. Yes, they were covered by this.

By: BethK

BethK — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:51:43 +0000

Swordfish, I teach Computer Science at Millersville and live toward the river (toward York County). There are an amazing number of flight paths over this area. I sometimes used to see the Concorde flying by on its way to a west approach into Dulles. There are days when the sky is well-crossed with contrails. We have flights overhead from Philly, BWI, and Middletown, as well as many other places.

By: Melusine

Melusine — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 16:19:45 +0000

So the ice has a fishy odor? Curious. (Thanks for the link, Beth K.)

By: Naomi

Naomi — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 07:56:46 +0000

Wait, planes have anti-icing techniques to stop ice building up, right? Then what the hell was that stuff on the leading edges of the wings of the planes I took on my overseas trip last February? It was a light, whitish-blue line on the leading edges of the wings (at least, the one I could see from my seat – I was near the wings on both flights, there and back), it was only present when we were really high up and I couldn’t see it at ALL on the ground, and it was generally early morning somewhere over the Pacific (Northern winter, Southern summer – it would have been over the North on the flight over and South on the way back). It was a lot more visible when it was morning in the South. In one of the photos, you can see some faint streaking coming back off it, extending maybe (and I’m guessing the scale here) four inches from the leading edge.

So, WAS it ice?

By: Swordfish

Swordfish — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 07:04:49 +0000

I don’t think it’s fake. If it is fake, it’s very convincingly done. The ice is too dirty to have come from the inside of a freezer… at least I sure hope their freezer isn’t that dirty, and that chunk of shingle in it is a nice touch. I’d also think that a tree branch would leave kind of a long path of damage instead of a puncture like that.

Also, the skies over York in Pennsylvania aren’t exactly the most congested in the world. I went to college at relatively nearby Millersville University (for meteorology, no less), and there were never very many airplanes in sky, at least not as many as I’m used to. Though I will grant that what I’m used to is a lot because I live close to Philadelphia International Airport. I know a low amount of air traffic doesn’t eliminate the possibility of it falling from an airplane, but it’s something to consider.

Some bad luck for the homeowners, though, with all of the farmland in that part of the state that it could have fallen on, it had to fall on their house instead.

By: Mark Laflamme

Mark Laflamme — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 04:41:51 +0000

Put some ice on it!
Man, that’s cold…

By: Fozzillo

Fozzillo — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 03:29:43 +0000

Here in Italy we have stopped believing in ice from the sky. We had a very “icy” season a few years ago, where investigated the cases resulted hoaxes.
I admit this case seems to be real but I remain skeptic.
Was it windy that night? Did a branch fall from a tree?
Maybe they just made it up by collecting some ice from the fridge hoping for a “big airplane company” check. who knows?

By: Reid

Reid — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 02:21:16 +0000

nICE joke

By: BethK

BethK — Thu, 23 Oct 2008 01:09:09 +0000

This is local to me, and WGAL is a pretty thorough and reliable television station. The web page about it is at http://www.wgal.com/news/17776746/detail.html

The York Dispatch newspaper has interviews with the scientists studying it at York College – http://yorkdispatch.inyork.com/yd/local/ci_10784289 – including what they’ve done to it so far.

By: Darren Garrison

Darren Garrison — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 23:38:49 +0000

http://www.scribd.com/doc/4633762/Ice-Meteorites

By: -E

-E — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 22:54:17 +0000

It’s been covered by http://www.megacryometeors.com/ already. It wouldn’t surprise me if it were one of those because I highly doubt that a chunk of ice in that shape could form somewhere on the fuselage of a plane or on the wings.

By: Chip

Chip — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 22:16:11 +0000

Those are rather chunky pieces to have formed from an aircraft fuselage or wing surface but I suppose its possible. Trouble is, I bet the results of the lab test won’t be reported as a follow up by the news station.

A goofy speculation that occurred to me was to imagine ice trapped inside the rocky shell of a incoming meteor and as it entered Earth’s atmosphere the outside heats up from air friction while deep inside it is still very cold. This preserves the frozen ice through entry. Then at lower altitude the rock explodes away freeing ice chunks to just fall.

However, as the BA points out, the whole thing would probably fragment into many pieces and melt away.

By: Thomas Siefert

Thomas Siefert — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 21:29:29 +0000

This is getting to be like one of these jokes that doesn’t make sense and the punch line is always the same.

Q: Why did the chicken cross the road?
A: Because of DEATH FROM THE SKIES!

An astronomer, a biologist and an astrologer walked into a bar.
The astronomer then said: DEATH FROM THE SKIES!

By: Ivan

Ivan — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 21:20:37 +0000

That must hurt! She should put some ice on it.

I see what you did thar Phil.

By: Maura

Maura — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 21:03:44 +0000

I have a friend whose car was hit by plane lavatory ice a few years back. (The newspaper article quoted a kid who called it “poo ice”.) No one was in the car at the time, which is good because they would definitely have been hurt. But their insurance didn’t pay for it. I hope these homeowners have a good policy to help them pay for their roof.

By: Michelle

Michelle — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:55:56 +0000

Megacryometeor perhaps?

I saw this on the very credible website Cracked.

http://www.cracked.com/article_16685_5-bizarre-ways-weather-can-kill-you-without-warning.html

It’s their #5.

By: Stark

Stark — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:38:16 +0000

Icing on aircraft happens all the time. It’s unavoidable. A six pound chuck building up on the aircraft is not inconceivable and would generally pose no hazard to the aircraft itself. While excessive ice buildup would be cause for concern this is a VERY rare occurrence in flight due to the anti-icing systems all jets have. These systems keep the wings and control surfaces clear of ice in all but the very worst of flight conditions. There are, however, other places on aircraft where ice could build up and subsequently break away.

It is very unlikely that the ice was from a lavatory though. Lavatory waste is stored in a tank on board the aircraft and then pumped out upon landing. While leaks do occur and the occasional chunk of lavatory ice hits a home (last I can recall was in Calgary last year) it’s quite easily identified due to it being blue. The color is from the chemicals used in the lavatory systems.

Clear ice, as this is, is either from wing or fuselage buildup or the sinks on board the plane. The sinks do simply vent overboard and it’s possible, though very unusual, for an icicle to build up and then break off in a large chunk. The venting systems are designed to actively prevent such an occurence – not due to safety concerns on the ground but more due to clogging concerns of the venting system. Big chunks of ice stuck to the venting system would not be a good thing – clogged sink drains are a pain at 30.000ft.

The greatest likely hood here is a bit of fuselage ice breaking away.

By: Doc

Doc — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:37:43 +0000

I remember reading a news report a long while back about a similar incident, except in that case the ice was odd colored and smelled terrible when it started to melt. The conclusion was that it came from an airplane lavatory.

By: zaardvark

zaardvark — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:26:43 +0000

Enjoy every day, because you never know when there will be … DEATH FROM THE SKIES!

By: MichaelL

MichaelL — Wed, 22 Oct 2008 20:21:04 +0000

I just realized what is happening here… Phil is out promoting his book… Death From The Skies! Seriously, there has to be a better way of getting the word out.