@Metre – I have to say I wonder what YOU do for a living. Overpaid executive perhaps? Where did your wife get the capital? Risks? – I hear that alot from people in your situation. What risks? Oh, you mean the possiblily that the precious capital might be lost. I’m sure if it is you will file for bankruptcy so the debt doesn’t have to be paid by you anyway. Does your wife employ anyone? If so, how well are they paid? They don’t contribute to the success of her business? As far as your taxes paying for my handouts – I pay taxes as well, and I take no handouts. Would you like me to pay $180k on my $40k salary? You do the math. I pay more taxes than people who make less than I do. It’s based on a percentage. Why should that percentage miraculously stop increasing when I reach a level of compensation that allows me to have “disposable” income? In regards to the National Parks I’m enjoying, I have never been to one, I can’t afford to get there. You know travel costs money, mine has to pay to keep a roof over my families head, food in their stomachs, and heat so they don’t freeze to death in the winter. So much for disposable income. I am a dedicated and hardworking employee. I work for a privately owned small company. The owner promises us a bonus every year if we make enough profit, but we don’t make enough profit. The owner had to build a wine cellar with company funds and is currently spending $6k pf the company profits a month stocking it and taking his wife out to expensive dinners on the company every Friday and
Saturday. By the way, I am typing this on my lunch hour at home because I don’t believe in using company time for personal business, my boss was in his office ordering more wine when I left. Where were you when you typed your statement?

Yet you and everyone else benefit from my unequal share. I get no special priveledges.
You can’t see how helping those that are less fortunate helps you? And what special privileges do you want? You get a bigger house, a nicer car, and better vacations. Do you want everyone to wear funny hats that indicate how much they pay in taxes? Those who pay the most get to move to the front of the line, and the lesser hatted must bow down to them as they pass.

You are very welcome. I will expect your thank you in the next post.
Oh great king Metre, I thank you for the generous gift you have bestowed upon the nation, even thought you only did it because you were forced to.

Entrepreneurship is the engine that drives the American economy. Yet if the government redistributes the rewards, what is the incentive?
I bet your wife regrets ever having gone down the path which led to her riches. There were absolutely no rewards. For the life of me, I can’t think of a single reason why anyone would want to make more money.

If I can just sit on my duff and expect a free handout picked from someone else’s pocket, why should I work hard?
Wait a minute, I work really hard too, and I pay a lot in taxes as well. I didn’t realize the key to success was being lazy and making less money. I’m going to have to re-think my life.

There seems to be some confusion about socialism as it applies to the government of a country. Having a tax system that favors one group (e.g., the working class) over another group (e.g., the wealthy), or one that keeps the burden even for everyone, is not socialism.

If Obama truly were a socialist, then he would be calling for the federal government to own, not just regulate, all production resources in the country. Government, rather than private, insurance. Government control of media, rather than private media companies. Government control of energy resources, rather than independent, private gas, electric, oil, etc. companies. Government control of financial institutions.

Saying that Obama is a socialist based on a turn of phrase or an image promoted by McCain’s campaign, an ignorance of what socialism really means in a government, and a misunderstanding of Obama’s tax plan is, well, wrong. I have yet to see anything from Obama that he wants to nationalize industry and resources in a manner that reeks of socialism.

And even if he were a socialist, would that make our system of governance socialist as well? Nope. Remember that we also have a legislative branch that, I would wager, is pretty overwhelmingly capitalist. So even if Obama were a socialist, your fears are unwarranted.

You seem to suffer from some common misperceptions. The first is that well-to-do-people – those who earn over $250K a year – pay no taxes or don’t pay their fair share. Up until a few years ago, my wife and I both worked and earned under that magic $250K threshold. Then my wife decided to start her own business. She raised the capital, took the risks, and has worked very, very hard to make her business a success. As a result, our gross income has doubled to about $400K per year. Of that amount, we pay over $180K per year in taxes. While this still leaves us with more disposable income than we had before, it is a tremendous amount of money to give away. So I think I pay my fair share for national parks and other government funded programs. In fact, I pay a whole lot more than most and more than you. Yet you and everyone else benefit from my unequal share. I get no special priveledges. You get the same access to those parks as I do, even though you contribute much less to their upkeep than I do. You are very welcome. I will expect your thank you in the next post.

Second, what makes you think that you are entitled to some of my wife’s success? She is the one who took the risks and has worked hard to make her business a success. You have done nothing. You did not contribute capital, you did not take any risks, and you did not work to help her business succeed. Why do you think you or anyone else is entitled to a “re-distribution” of my wife’s income? It is just government welfare for the middle class, aka socialism.

Entrepreneurship is the engine that drives the American economy. Yet if the government redistributes the rewards, what is the incentive? If I can just sit on my duff and expect a free handout picked from someone else’s pocket, why should I work hard? And that is the problem with socialism and it’s big brother, communism. Communism did not fail as a political system, it failed as an economic system.

Asking the people who benefit the most from a system to pay the most to support it doesn’t come close to meeting the requirements of definition 1. Do you really think someone like Warren Buffet would support Obama if they thought there was the slightest possibility he planned to take control of his assets and give them to the masses?

Yea it is moot, so now I guess America is going to have to sit back and see if this guy in office is really going to bring about “change” or is he just another politician playing to the crowd. Even though I dont agree with him, Im still interested to see what he’s about. Let’s face it…people can talk all they want about a specific plan, but until it’s implemented, there’s no way to know if it actually works.

BTW about socialism, the proof is in the pudding…this is what substantiates it –

so⋅cial⋅ism
   /ˈsoʊʃəˌlɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [soh-shuh-liz-uhm] Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

look at 1. ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole. Obama said it himself…the rich have to pay their fair share…they get taxed high while the lower classes get taxed less. I also think that the business get a higher tax rate too, but from what I was reading it was way to complicated to understand it in the short amount of time I have on the net.

anyways…Im glad I found this blog…Ive read some interesting info on here that I did not know before, and no hard feelings (hopefully)going back and forth with people…I know religion and politics are everyone’s sore spot.

http://www.transterrestrial.com/archives/2008/11/uh_oh_4.html

Okay, so the charge of free government handouts came from the opponent, who, of course, like all opponents, is not going to twist the truth and put spin on anything (and please note, I am not exempting Obama from this charge). So, to take away the power of such spin, the Obama campaign clearly spells out that it’s only people who are working who will benefit from the tax plan, something which, to someone with decent reasoning skills, should have been apparent without being spelled out.

The plan was to cut income tax for people. Where, in that policy goal, can “free government handouts” be read? If people are not working, they do not pay any type of income tax. If they are not paying any kind of income tax, then they will not benefit from a cut in the income tax rates.

At any rate, the argument is moot, now that the election is over.

I have to agree, that as divided as the US of A may seem, an armed uprising is not likely.

I think we may yet have a very small opportunity to by law, resist and reform the present bipartisian bloated and over reaching giant of American government.

I remember thinking this morning, while I prepared and ate some whole wheat bread, butter and jam: I became truly grateful for our present economic crisis. It’s going to continue for another year, anyway. Hopefully the crisis and its consequences will limit the coming government’s budgets and ability to inflict further incursions on our rights and liberties, both individual and local governmental rights and liberties.

I agree with some of the things you just said, about both parties not in it for the interest of the people. Also especially in todays complicated political and economic world…I dont think anyone can be 100 percent liberal or conservative…of course someone will prove me wrong…lol.

~excerpt from the the DOI
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

we all know that will never happen again. To be able to get rid of the current bloated government and put in place something that is alot more reliable……

Tuscanitunr – what is so wrong with socialism anyway? It seems to be working here in Canada. Do you hate your fellow man so much that you only want to think of yourself?

…Trust me, its nice being able to go to the hospital when you’re sick without worrying about how you won’t be able to eat for the next 6 months in order to afford it. It all comes out in the wash in the end – I used the free heathcare when I was a broke student paying no taxes… and I still get to use that same healthcare now that I’m an engineer paying a ton of taxes.

** no hate, and I dont make enough money to think of myself, but I’d like to think the American dream was still something to look forward to. Work hard…earn the money and get to play harder.**
#

@ Ranceco

To Tuscanitunr:
You said that you won’t comment on your other views because you haven’t done your research. Well………….you should have done some research before you made the ridiculous comment you did make! And, you are right to preface your sentence about tax structure with “I’m not sure”. It is obvioius that you should have prefaced your enire entry with that statement!

** Not sure of how its ridiculous, however lets see…something called wellfare??? Although after being called out on it…Obama put in a “work clause”. And as for my comment of not doing my research on subjects I feel strongly about…it was the way I was raised, and having to work quite a bit…stationed oversea’s at the moment…I dont have all that much time to actually sit down and compare each side and find relevant facts…instead of what mainstream media puts out. As a member of the military oversea’s…my vote isnt even going to be counted because they sent the absentee ballets to late. So if anything is ridiculous, it would be that someone who fights to defend the US doesnt even get a say in who my boss is

@ Todd W.

Facing criticism from John McCain that his tax plan constitutes “welfare,” Barack Obama recently added a work requirement to one of his proposals. “They started saying this was welfare,” said Obama adviser Austan Goolsbee. “So, just so they would absolutely not be able to say that, we decided that for the last two percent we’ll simply add a work requirement.”

Welfare – financial or other assistance to an individual or family from a city, state, or national government: Thousands of jobless people in this city would starve if it weren’t for welfare.

Now with above paragraph, yes I do somewhat agree with welfare and programs like it…but like I said before people will abuse it. Basically one of my biggest things is its my money and who is the government to tell me what to do with it and who it should go to? And if Im able to make so much, whats to stop me from using that money to support a cause or a program of MY choosing.

While Mary takes her meds, shouldn’t you take off your rose-colored glasses?

To one questioning if socialism = evil communism. Not quite. All of you who claim the socialist way I considered blinded by socialism. Which is an economic theory of government. Which economic theory proposes to steal from the rich and give to the poor. I don’t want stolen goods. Let the rich be rich and the rest of us earn our keep. Also, Comrade President-Elect Obama likes to steal other people’s guns. Theft by any other name is still theft.

Just because government or the will of the people steal money or goods from one sector of society and redistribute them to another, does not make it OK. Theft remains theft and a nation of theives is so pathetic. Nothing to be proud of.

My, and other American citizens’ fair share is to vote; earn our keep; make a profit; fear God, and love our neighbor. What socialist governments do is deprive individuals from willingly giving what they choose to give. That’s how it works best. Imho. ie, socialism suffocates freedom of choice.

Greeting, Crux. I voted a split ticket: Sen. McCain and Governor Palin for President and vice president; then conservatives for Congress and judges’ posts (except for Criminal Court, where I voted for liberal judges) and a mix of Independents, Libertarians and Republicans and Democrats. I’m an independent.

I’m still trying to figure out if I’m a conservative with liberal tendencies or a liberal with conservative views.

I should not volunteer this next; however I do, so you know pretty much how I stand: imho both Republican and Democratic parties no longer serve the government of the people, for the people and by the people in these US of A.

11/4/08 is the most prolific, historic statement that was ever made by the well intended majority of the American people.

I’ve always been glad to be an American. Today, I am truly proud to be an American.

Michael Love, Greenbrier, Arkansas, USA!!!