The Sun rises on America once again.
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And like any day when it starts, it’s time to roll up our sleeves and get to work.
Sunrise picture courtesy D’Arcy Norman on Flickr.
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If you went to BadAstronomy.com and found yourself here, never fear: the BA Blog has moved to its new home at Discover Blogs. The original BA site (with the Moon Hoax debunking and all that) is still online, too.
Phil Plait, the creator of Bad Astronomy, is an astronomer, lecturer, and author. After ten years working on Hubble Space Telescope and six more working on astronomy education, he struck out on his own as a writer. He has written two books, dozens of magazine articles, and 12 bazillion blog articles. He is a skeptic, and fights misuses of science as well as praising the wonder of real science.
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November 5th, 2008 at 6:10 am
Best. Entry. Ever!
November 5th, 2008 at 6:19 am
After 8 years of Dark Ages, I’m ready for the renaissance!
November 5th, 2008 at 6:26 am
It is a sad day for the United States Of America.
Yesterday, a man was elected President of the United States because of the color of his skin. If I had gone to any one of the rallys/parties that broke out around the country – the ones where black people were in tears talking about the historic moment – and asked some tough questions, I would be even more scared than I am.
If I asked, “What decisions and choices will Obama make to serve the country and its people,” I would have undoubtedly been met with a blank stare before hearing, “He is going to bring hope and change to America.”
People saw a black man on the ticket and let their emotions take over. Thoughts like,”Now is our chance to make it right,” are what triggered people to make their choices.
Most people forgot that President is a job. A tough job where tough decisions have to be made. Votes were cast based on the amount of melanin an individual has in his skin.
“I never thought I would live to see the day where a black man is President.” How many times have we heard and seen that statement in the last 12 hours?
It is sad and pathetic that people used that as the basis for their decision.
My hope is that the factors outside of the President’s control will turn around to improve our country, because based on the evidence those factor that will be under Obama’s control will not take a turn for the better.
November 5th, 2008 at 6:26 am
We have to get back to work? You mean no more spending my days reading the blog posts and commenting on them instead of working? Durnit!
November 5th, 2008 at 6:28 am
@TruthSpeaker
Uh…he was elected solely because of his skin color? That’s news to me. Care to back that up with some hard data? Here, I’ll give you one data point. I voted for him, and his skin color never entered into my consideration.
November 5th, 2008 at 6:30 am
November 5th, 2008 at 6:36 am
@Truthspeaker
Don’t let the door hit you on the ass when you leave the country.
I voted for the person who I thought would do the better job. Race didn’t enter into it. Fortunately a vast majority of my generation is colorblind, and not racist and bigoted.
For Phil and everyone else who is level-headed at this time:
The first thing that came into my head when it was announced Obama had sewn up the office was – ironically – the words of Gerald Ford, who said “our long national nightmare is over.”
It’s a brand new day. But as I am always the skeptic, I have to hope that we won’t be disappointed in the long run. Not with the choice of the man for the office, but that we will be let down by executive and legislative inaction and the “usual” petty politics.
November 5th, 2008 at 6:38 am
@Todd
Really? Its news to you? Then you obviously haven’t been paying attention. How many of the people that had tears in their eyes can provide any reason to elect Obama other than:
“Its about time someone that looks like me became President.”
or
“Who would have thought a black man would be President during my lifetime.”
or
“He is going to provide hope and change for America.”
Of course I can’t provide hard data that shows he was elected based on an emotional response to his skin color. Nor can you provide data that says he was elected by people because of his principles, policies, and stances.
November 5th, 2008 at 6:40 am
…well it would’ve been way cooler if this truly was the sunrise at your home this morning and not a FAKE.
November 5th, 2008 at 6:40 am
I must admit I’m not as ecstatic as some, but I’m relieved that we won’t have to deal with a McCain-Palin presidency. Either way, this is a great example of why Phil is made of awesome.
November 5th, 2008 at 6:42 am
I don’t vote for Obama because he was half-black. I voted for him because his opponent was dangerously unstable, and his opponent’s party has done its best over the last 8 years to loot the treasury and destroy our constitution.
November 5th, 2008 at 6:43 am
@Kevin,
How come your skepticism does not include Obama? You say, “But as I am always the skeptic, I have to hope that we won’t be disappointed in the long run. Not with the choice of the man for the office, but that we will be let down by executive and legislative inaction and the “usual” petty politics.”
How come, “Not with the choice of the man for office…”?
You don’t seem to be open to the idea that this guy might completely blow it. That isn’t skepticism. You have made up your mind before any opportunity to oberve what will happen.
November 5th, 2008 at 6:44 am
Wait – what does the sun have to do with astronomy?
November 5th, 2008 at 6:45 am
@Kevin,
One more thing…
“Don’t let the door hit you on the ass when you leave the country.”
Every time someone on the political right uses that phrase we are called hateful and unamerican.
Funny how things become OK when one side wins.
November 5th, 2008 at 6:46 am
Yup. That’s right folks. The black man had the easy path. You heard it here first. Totally agrees with history and the facts of the matter. Nothing to do with the other party screwing up for 8 years, the other veep canidate being an idiot, or the other canidate coming off like a senile old man.
But Phil said it right. The sun rose, inspite of the hopes of so many others to the contrary. Unless of course they all got raptured up to heaven. But the chances of that are…slim?
November 5th, 2008 at 6:48 am
Well, don´t take me wrong but, the american press screaming around that how amazing is a black man as the US president, just proves to me that the USA is still very racist.
November 5th, 2008 at 6:49 am
@RJ,
I never said it was easy. I said the basis upon which many people made their decision was the wrong one.
By the way, I am an atheist and a Libertarian. So you can save all of the religious rhetoric for someone it applies to.
November 5th, 2008 at 6:49 am
TruthSpeaker (right…) wrote:
“Every time someone on the political right uses that phrase we are called hateful and unamerican.
Funny how things become OK when one side wins.”
It’s called sarcasm… get a clue
November 5th, 2008 at 6:50 am
@Savino,
Thank you. If the color of his skin is not an issue, why is it the only thing people are talking about? I have yet to hear anyone cheer about his economic policies or hear how he is going to serve the country.
November 5th, 2008 at 6:51 am
@scottb
So when people on the left use the phrase it is sarcasm and we should laugh it off. When people on the right use it, it is evil and we shouldn’t say such things.
Nice set of principles.
November 5th, 2008 at 6:54 am
speaker:
sarcasm, irony, whatever…
Is it possible that you are confusing people’s -reaction- to the results (”I never thought I’d see this”) vs. their -reason- for voting for Obama?
November 5th, 2008 at 6:56 am
@TruthSpeaker
Ah, I see. You are conflating emotional responses to his victory with your opinion of how people must have voted for him. You also appear to be taking a single media issue (race) and assuming that that is the only reason Obama could possibly have been elected, since if he had any mettle, then the media would not be covering it. You seem to be of the mind that he has absolutely no qualities whatsoever that would have won him the election, other than his skin color. Got it.
Well, seeing as I made no claims, it is not on me to provide the data, though I did give you at least one data point that his principles, policies and stances were a deciding factor for at least one vote (mine), and Kevin gave you another data point. You made a claim: Obama was elected because of his skin color. The onus is on you to support that claim with valid data.
Thus far, there are two data points showing votes for him that had nothing to do with his skin color, and no data points that his skin color was the sole deciding factor.
November 5th, 2008 at 6:56 am
@scottb,
Thank you for a reasonable question.
I don’t think so, because we heard the exact same stuff leading up to the election.
People kept saying, “He will bring hope and change to America,” but never talked about anything substantive.
People said, “How amazing is that we have a black man running for President.”
Througout the entire campaign we heard emotional reasons given for electing Obama.
November 5th, 2008 at 6:57 am
@”TruthSpeaker”
Your racism is both offensive and anachronistic. Please get into a 12-step program.
Many of us voted for the team that is intelligent, engaged, thoughtful, “believes” in science, is correct on the issues, stands a chance at preventing a runaway right-wing Supreme Court, etc.
I suppose in your hate-addled world, science Nobel Laureates must be particularly prone to emotionalism, since they overwhelmingly endorsed Obama.
But I welcome you to spend more time here at BadAstronomy and similar sites. Turn off FoxNews for a while. There may be hope for you yet.
And for America at large, the long national nightmare is coming to a close.
November 5th, 2008 at 6:59 am
Go home troll. Yes, the skin color may have had an effect with some, but looking at real data (CNN Exit polls), something that it is blindingly obvious you have not looked at, race making a difference was one of the bottom most issues, and even THAT only went 60/40 for Obama. Also, there is the fact that there exists a rather large element of racism AGAINST Obama, mostly in the southern states. I lived in Louisiana until about 3 years ago, when I moved here. Racism is still an issue, yes, but there are far more racist whites than racist blacks, simply because of the math; there are more whites than blacks in this country.
This man was elected because the incumbent party has laughed heartily for 8 years while screwing up the country through peeling away our rights, screwing up our economy and going against the very essence of the party’s long time non-interventionist standings. Republican presidents were usually elected to END wars, this republican started two. While he is far from perfect, he is hands down better than his opponent in almost every issue (education, economy, etc) facing our country.
Wake up and smell the mess you’re shoveling.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:02 am
@Dean Bird,
“Your racism is both offensive and anachronistic. Please get into a 12-step program.”
I was wondering how long it would take someone to fall back on this line of thinking. No better way to try to win an argument in contemporary America than label someone a racist. I never said that he, or any black person, shouldn’t be president because they are black. I said it is wrong to elect someone because they are black.
“Many of us voted for the team that is intelligent, engaged, thoughtful, “believes” in science, is correct on the issues, stands a chance at preventing a runaway right-wing Supreme Court, etc.”
I argue that most people that voted for Obama did not put as much thought into it as you. As evidence I off the media coverage of those that did vote for him, but did so out of emotion.
“I suppose in your hate-addled world, science Nobel Laureates must be particularly prone to emotionalism, since they overwhelmingly endorsed Obama.”
The fact that intelligent people supported Obama has nothing to do with the wrongness of the fact that most others supported him for no valid reason.
“But I welcome you to spend more time here at BadAstronomy and similar sites. Turn off FoxNews for a while. There may be hope for you yet.”
I read BA every day. I do not watch Fox News. I am curious, what would be your suggestion for an unbiased news source?
November 5th, 2008 at 7:03 am
TruthSpeaker, you’re only providing anecdotal evidence – which is not evidence at all. Your memory may be selective (in fact, if you are human, it is selective) and you likely haven’t seen *all* statements in the media but only a few.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:06 am
@TruthSpeaker:
I really don´t believe that most of the people voted him because the color of his skin, but I do believe many people vote because of this. Sure, why not? And it´s not wrong. You can expect more religious people voting for McCain than Obama…
But I really think that a 130 million people running to vote just because the color of a skin? No, I really can believe that the american people can be THAT stupid.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:06 am
speaker:
While I have no doubt that some people voted for him strictly based on ethnicity, jumping to the conclusion that’s how he got elected doesn’t seem very reasonable. How many people to you think voted -against- him based on the color of his skin or his supposed religion (muslim)? More than voted for him? Less? The same?
Your hypothesis doesn’t seem to have a lot of support except amongst the people that voted against him for his color. Are you projecting?
November 5th, 2008 at 7:07 am
@TruthSpeaker
His skin color is a big media issue because, well, we’ve never had anyone seriously in the running, before, who was not white. His stance on issues, from a media perspective, are not as newsworthy. They don’t rile people up or touch an emotional chord in the same way that his skin color or heritage do. It may come as a shock to you, but the media is biased and (gasp!) occasionally underreports on the important matters!
PP also touched on your own selection bias. You are of the mind that his skin color was the overwhelmingly deciding factor in his election. It is not inconceivable that you are ignoring possible media coverage of people who talked more about his principles and policies than about his race.
I notice that your argument is changing slightly. First it was an unequivocal “He was elected because of his skin color” argument. Now, it’s “Most of his supporters did so because of his skin color.”
November 5th, 2008 at 7:09 am
“I argue that most people that voted for Obama did not put as much thought into it as you. As evidence I off the media coverage of those that did vote for him, but did so out of emotion.”
Stop moving goal posts, you said because of the color of his skin, now you say because of emotion. Pick one.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:09 am
speaker wrote: “The fact that intelligent people supported Obama has nothing to do with the wrongness of the fact that most others supported him for no valid reason.”
This is the point. Where’s your evidence? If you have nothing but anecdotes, you have no evidence – only an opinion.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:12 am
@Everyone
Of course I am relying on anecdotal evidence. Nothing else is available unless I missed that peer reviewed, double blind study showing that Obama supporters made their choice based on an educated understanding of the issues.
I don’t think my argument is changing. My stance is:
Obama was elected based on his skin color because most of the people that voted for him did so because of his skin color.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:15 am
The Republicans ran a dedicated anti-science ignoramus against an expert on constitutional law, but somehow, somehow, the people that voted for the black dude are emotional and racist, but the people who voted for the white dude are objective and rational. Got it. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:15 am
@TruthSpeaker
Okay, so do you admit that your claim that at least 51% of the people that voted for Obama did so solely because of his skin color is just an opinion and not fact?
November 5th, 2008 at 7:17 am
@llewelly,
I never said that the people who voted for the white dude are objective and rational.
Nice try though.
I cast my vote for Bob Barr (who happens to be white), because I believe in the Libertarian philosophy.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:19 am
@Todd,
Of course it is opinion, just like everything everyone says unless they have hard data to back it up.
It is not an opinion that the Earth revolves around the sun. It is an observable, testable fact.
It is an opinion that people voted for Obama becasue of (insert your reason here.)
November 5th, 2008 at 7:21 am
TruthSpeaker is trolling, folks.
It IS a new day in America. I woke up today with a sense of relief and comfort knowing that change is fast approaching.
Bye bye, GOP.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:21 am
@TruthSpeaker
Okay. Just wanted to clear that up, because your initial post came off sounding like you were trying to make a statement of fact.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:24 am
@Harold,
Trolling? I read BA every day. I own both of the BA’s books. I am a regular financial contributer to the JREF. I am active in my local skeptics society.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:25 am
@TruthSpeaker,
So your supposition is that Jesse Jackson would be president elect now if he ran? Or Mike Tyson or Oprah Winfrey?
November 5th, 2008 at 7:27 am
Truthspeaker:
You claim that Obama was elected based on the color of his skin, because some people shown/quoted in the news appear to be acting as if that was the reason they voted for him.
I’m curious, however, how many people voted for McCain because of the color of his skin?
It works both ways, you know. (And, for the record, the color of the candidates’ skins did not enter into my decision making process.)
November 5th, 2008 at 7:27 am
@Truthspeaker,
Your rhetoric makes you sound like you would be right at home at your local Klan meeting too. Of course this is only my opinion.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:31 am
TruthSpeaker –
There… fixed that for you.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:33 am
To my American friends,
Thank you for electing Barack Obama as your next president. The world has had a vested intrest in the election turning out in his favour, and we’re ready to heal our splintered relationship after 8 years of uniliateralism.
But beware:
Although it truly was a historic moment in America, demonstrating that racism of the older generation was defeated by the younger generation which has learned from the a)mistakes of their parents b)gross inaction from the all-talk, no-bite 60’s generation, you need to not polish all your laurels just yet.
The book of bigotry in America was not closed last night. At best, a singular chapter on racism in America has been completed, only to open to the next ugly chapter. Voters in Arkansas, Arizona, California, and Florida have demonstrated the hatred and bigotry of the new nigger in America: the homosexual. Antiquated religious dogma, backed by millions of dollars to spread blatent lied designed to appeal to people’s lower-natures (fear, anger, and more fear) have truly stained what should otherwise be a great day for America. On the one hand, the United States has lived up to its creed, and the other hand delivers a stranglehold on basic human rights for another group of people.
I have no doubt that this irrational fear and hatred of homosexuality will one day pass, and that silly, antiquated notions of marriage and parenthood will fall by the wayside to join it’s fallen (or falling) brethren: racism, religious persecution, genocide, and lynching. In the end, these kinds of bigotry always loose. But bigotry was not defeated last night. Not by a long shot.
Still, it was a fantastic victory in the right direction. Hopefully, the example set by Obama and his supporters will spread, and the bigotry and hatred demostrated by those states will one day reverse the decisions made last night, and this can be done by increasing the secular push in the government. North Carolina demonstrated to religious zealots like Elizabeth Dole can’t get away with acting like being “godless” is a smear. So the rest of the country: keep secularizing your government, and the ‘promised land’ of Martin Luther King Jr. will be just around the next corner.
Cheers.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:33 am
And yet you are still capable of such abject insular ignorance.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:40 am
@TruthSpeaker
Bush: $56,000,000,000,000 debt, 2 unnecessary wars, almost a million dead Iraqis and Afghans, the rest of the World pissed off and wanting to kill America, unemployment, no medical insurance (which every country in Europe has), mortgage crisis, federal funds for religion/abstinence/creationism etc. etc.
Clinton: $127,000,000 surplus, America respected by most of the World, economic boom, and the closest thing to World Peace (admittedly flawed) in nearly a century.
And you’re still babbling about skin color?
November 5th, 2008 at 7:44 am
IF the poll results reported on CNN last night are correct (That is a big “if”, I know), voting for Obama was about the same whether race was an important factor to the voter or not. Of course, there may be bias in the implementation or interpretation of the poll, dishonesty on the part of those polled, etc., but at least we have some attention to a more rigorous methodology than anecdotal evidence and opinion.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:47 am
I voted for Obama because I considered the alternatives, not because of his racial makeup.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:53 am
I should also add that I am among those who were SCARED TO DEATH that Palin would somehow become president…
…and we all know why that couldn’t be allowed to happen.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:53 am
Why Did McCain Lose? (In Order)
1) Because a 72 year old man picked a VP who knew nothing of national politics and took away the experience issue.
2) Because when McCain wanted the chance to lead his party and the country on the bailout issue, he dropped the ball.
3) Because the Republican party has moved too far to the right.
4) Because there is little difference between tax and spend of the Dems (if it comes to that) and borrow and spend of the Reps.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:56 am
Is D’Arcy Norman a colleague of yours Dr Plait? Great photo, and I just had to clicky it.
Well, looks like, despite the protestations of many fundamentalist viewpoints, the world didn’t end today. I guess the next moving target for them is Jan 20th? After that, who knows.
November 5th, 2008 at 7:58 am
T.S.:
Your analyses is faulty. If you think people only vote their visceral inputs, you are making the exact same mistake the Repubs made when they mounted their attack against Barack. When I heard him speak for the first time(about nine months ago) my first thought was “Dang! The Democrats have finally fielded a winner,,,”. That insight came from one fact: The man is highly intelligent and compassionate! THAT’S what I voted for, intelligence and compassion.
If you LISTENED to his closing speech last night, it would be obvious to you he has a very fine understanding of the work that will be required to bring this nation back on track, to unify these disparate tribes into a functioning whole and re-establish our ideals.
I should note, I am a fat, hairy, OLD white guy. You might say I voted for the half that is white. In the darkness that has been dominant in our political system these last eight years, black is invisible,,,
Gary 7
November 5th, 2008 at 8:04 am
People are entitled to show a little emotion about Obama’s election. It is a historic moment. Black people only got fully enfranchised in the 60s. Lynchings were still happening during Obama’s life time. Much has changed in 40 years and that is worth celebrating.
Of course if Hillary had gone this far Truthspeaker would say a woman was elected because of her sex.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:12 am
to all:
This one time I am going to resist my usual urge to jump on posts by people like “truthsayer.”
Please, let us this morning ignore the trolls. They’ve already come out in force on this and other websites, spinning the election results, trying pathetically to explain away their failure by denigrating the opponent’s victory.
There will be enough of that b.s. in the months ahead…a hint of what’s to come in the next four years. For now, leave them be, wallowing in their ignorance, pathetically weaving excuses, pointing fingers at everyone except their own.
I’m not the biggest fan of president-elect Obama, but this election honestly gave me hope. And not the prepackaged Hope™ that’s been a slogan for the past year, but a genuine belief that maybe the American populace is not completely overtaken by dunderheads. For once in 18+ years, I can honestly say I’m proud to be an American.
Way to go, majority!
November 5th, 2008 at 8:16 am
The good thing about the U.S.A. is that viewpoints like Truthspeaker’s (a contradiction in terms, given his/her viewpoint and use of anecdotal evidence and fear-m0ngering projection) are protected by the First Amendment. It means that you get to say whatever you want, think whatever you want. Doesn’t make whatever you think and say correct… it also covers your right to make a fool of yourself in public.
Now, the truly great people take responsibility for making fools of themselves in public by getting educated before they make silly comments again.
So, Truthspeaker, while I thank you for speaking your mind here, it’s clear that you are most certainly wrong-headed. I do salute your courage in doing putting voice to your fears for all of us to examine and point out where your thinking is based on error.
Count me as another who voted for Obama not because of the color of his skin but due to the content of his character and the audacity of the hope he brings to ALL Americans — even the ones who continue to espouse wrong-headed opinion as “fact.”
And my reaction to the fact that he’s black? Emotional, sure, because his skin color shouldn’t have mattered. It’s a big step toward admitting what geneticists already know about us — we’re all brothers and sisters under the skin.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:20 am
o_0 As if all of McCain’s 55 million votes had nothing to do with Obama’s skin color. Please. 0_o
Personally, I noted Obama’s skin color, and I’m glad for the opportunity to make a symbolic gesture towards ending racism. (just because it’s symbolic doesn’t mean it isn’t important.) But that is a minor consideration compared to the issues – happily, Obama was ALSO the superior choice based on the issues.
TruthSpeaker’s hypothesis is counter-evidenced by the utter failure of Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, Carol Mosely Braun, and Alan Keyes (all of whom have run for the nomination of a major party) to even win their primary, because most voters don’t decide based on race. At most, race is a tiebreaking factor, to be used only to decide between two equally-qualified candidates (hint: McCain did not have nearly the qualifications that Obama had).
Don’t worry, we’ll turn that around soon. By 2016 I expect at least 5 more states to legalize gay marriage, and for there to be federal legalization before the end of my lifetime.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:21 am
Libertarian, so yes, you do accept a least one religion.
You are also an incredible racist. I don’t hesitate for one moment to say that. Not because you don’t like Obama. I know a few decent and right honorable people who do, including myself about a month ago when I was on the verge of voting for a third party candidate for president.
No. You are a racist because you want to take a vast demographic and impose a general character and attitude on them. You claim to know their internal thought processes, and discount the number of people not in that group who felt the same way. You express a confidence in the inferiority of their thought processes, and you have absolutely no valid data to inform these perceptions. That is the very definition of bigotry.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:23 am
So no death from the skies this morning? Yay!
November 5th, 2008 at 8:30 am
I am a white middle aged man who voted for Obama and it had nothing to do with his color. It was because after 8 years of of deceit, incompetence and irrationality from a political party that has fractured and polarized this country I saw “a person” who has remarkable intelligence and thoughtfulness and a brilliant ability to bring people together for the common good.
We needed someone like Obama to inspire most of us to come together and work together. If you listen carefully to his speeches he is saying that WE must be the change that We want. It’s not just his sole responsibility to deliver change, it’s ours also.
After the nightmare of the last eight years it feels very good to have hope again.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:31 am
@TruthSpeaker
Obama was elected because he was the best candidate for change, which is what the people of this country have expressed is important to them. The fact that this candidate happened to be black made this a very proud moment for the blacks of this country. THAT’s why they were crying – because he was chosen by the people because he was the best choice and he happened to be black.
Your logic that people crying because of the pride they feel is the reason he was elected does not make any sense at all. Just think about it.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:37 am
TruthSpeaker:
You are certainly correct when you say that some people voted for Obama because of his skin color. But that’s also true for McCain. And people who voted for McCain because of Obama’s skin, and vice versa.
But you cannot say he was elected because of the color of his skin. That’s baseless. I would say the collapse of the economy and McCain’s incompetency in that area was a far bigger factor. I might even make the case that with all the racism stirred up by McCain and Palin (and their surrogates), Obama won despite his skin color. I also suspect McCain’s relentless negative campaigning, Palin’s clear incompetency, and eight years of incredible government mismanagement, lies, and Constitutional destruction may have had something to do with it.
And your claim that he said nothing of substance is clearly incorrect. If you search this very blog for Obama’s name, you will see many instances where he very clearly laid down what he wants to do about science, space exploration, energy reliance, and technology. At the debates, he was quite straightforward about his tax plan, what he wants to do about the economic crisis, and his foreign policy ideas. He has had details and specifics available to anyone who wanted to find out.
His campaign was heavy on the rhetoric of hope, of change. But that doesn’t mean his actual platform lacked substance. Don’t blame what you didn’t see (or don’t remember) on what’s not there.
And finally, of course, you can feel however you feel about the election. But as skeptics, we have to rely on the evidence. Let’s give this new man, this new Administration, the chance they deserve and let them present us with the evidence for change, progress, and getting this country back in the right direction. And when they do, I’ll keep my eye on them. You can rely on it.
But for right now, my heart is filled with hope, and my head is filled with the ideas his campaign has promised. I titled this post "A new day", and I mean it. But it’s a new day for all of us, and we all have to pitch in and do our part. There’s a lot to do.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:37 am
Okay, no one seems to have noticed this (or I haven’t noticed the thread as much as I should have), but to “TruthSpeaker” and every other bigoted pundit (yes, you ARE being bigoted) who claims that Obama won because because of his skin color, I have one question for you:
If you, as you claim, truly believe that voters supported Obama because he’s black, then why don’t you come out and admit that you voted against him for the same reason?
This is your false-dichotomy, and if you want to remain consistent, then own up.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:45 am
@ Trollspeaker…
…if it where based on the colour of his skin, Obama could not of won. Since black is still the minorty in the US melting pot; hense, he would of got the minority of votes.
Either way though, thanks pissing black clouds on our sunrise. Hope your happy now.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:45 am
@Truthspeaker:
“It is a sad day for the United States Of America.”
Obama won in spite of his skin color, not because of it. If you don’t realize this you weren’t paying attention to the entire election. The irony in your scapegoating your disappointments on his skin color and pronouncing that is why he won is not lost.
Besides, save for classifying this under the category of politics, nothing in Phil’s post has anything to do with the election results. Methinks thou dost protest too much.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:45 am
Hihihihihi
Truthspeaker has a knack for “truthiness” it seems!
Man, what a troll you are – really amazing.
I had called it for Obama months ago, when I realized the GOP didn’t really want to win this election. “Let someone else clean up the mess,” you know? And the US 2-party system doesn’t give any third party a chance, so I could never peg my hopes on the Greens or the Socialists.
Then I heard Obama speak – tears sprang in my eyes because of his intelligence and eloquence, and because he actually said things like “universal health care”, “transparency”, and “accountability”.
A tax plan that is actually progressive so that real wealth among Americans increases, instead of just that of oil barons, CEO’s, and their buddies.
And the power to attract an audience and get them to listen the same way JFK and Martin Luther King Jr did way back when strong men with powerful ideas could change the world.
This morning I looked at the news, and tears sprang in my eyes the second time this year. Not because he’s black, or because I was surprised he won against all odds, but because he won in what is practically a landslide, supporting a Senate with *almost* 60 Democratic seats, and because it’s the beginning of a long road of healing and rebuilding.
And I’m not even a US citizen, and I live on another continent.
This is a great day, and the world rejoices.
Why don’t you join us?
Surely you agree that McCain/Palin would be a far greater disaster (in your opinion) than Obama/Biden? Then why so sour?
Please put your disappointments and prejudices behind, and greet the future with open arms. Maybe the next term will be the one where libertarians make their mark. For now – take pleasure at this step towards the end of the old and the beginning of the new.
Think about it – Obama represents Change in a way that no other candidate has in the last 3 or 4 decades – at least! When change happens, you have the power to influence it – usually the coefficient of dynamic friction is much smaller than that of static friction – this is also true in politics. Take the opportunity to do something great instead of trying to trample on other peoples’ happiness.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:45 am
@’truth’speaker
speak truth or shut up. get over it.
GOBAMA!
November 5th, 2008 at 8:46 am
And we now return to our regularly scheduled Bad Astronomy.
We rejoin the broadcast, already in progress.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:46 am
@IVAN3MAN
Nice pic.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:47 am
I forgot to mention this (forgeting to mention things is what I’m known for):
The Republicans are now reaping what they have sown when they merged, for purely political (not policy) reasons, fiscal conservativism with social conservativism. Last night that unholy union was torn asunder when social conservatives realized that they needed a big government to enforce their archaic religious traditions, but the American people were sick of the discourse which equates fiscal responsibility with morality.
There is now a huge power-vacuum in the Republican party, and hopefully the party brass will stop trying to court the religious vote, and get back to what conservatives orginally did best: be responsible with a dollar (Nixon, yes Nixon, was the last good fiscally-conservative President), and leave morality up to the indivudual.
Let the republican canibalism begin!
November 5th, 2008 at 8:47 am
Let’s consider a few facts:
1) Minority voters are called minorities for just that reason — they’re a minority. Since it requires a majority of the votes to elect a president, it is logically impossible for minority voters to be solely, or even primarily, responsible for a the results of any election.
2) The history of racism in this country suggests that a large number of voters will vote against Barack Obama due to his race.
3) Basic psychology will tell you that humans, as a species, show stronger emotional response to people who resemble us more closely, which strongly suggests that the majority voters — i.e., whites — will be disinclined to vote for a non-white even if they do not hold racist beliefs.
If the three facts above are considered honestly and fairly, the only logical conclusion is that Barack Obama was not elected because of his race, but rather in spite of it.
Let’s look at some further factors that might have impacted the election to see why he was able to do that.
4) The youth of this country voted in greater numbers than ever before. For the same reasons noted in point 3, above, young voters are unlikely to vote for an old man (McCain) over someone who looks comparatively young.
Further, Obama’s “change” rhetoric directly plays on the majority of the country’s dissatisfaction with President Bush and his regime.
5) Basic psychology, once again, shows us that human beings, as a species, do not make decisions for logical reasons. Without fail, all humans — no matter how logical they believe themselves to be — make their decisions based on emotion and then use logical arguments to justify it later.
6) Recent polls show approximately 75% of Americans disapprove of President Bush. In this political climate, one could argue that the Republicans effectively shot themselves in the foot by selecting a candidate best known for echoing President Bush’s policies.
7) Barack Obama has become known as extremely charismatic and a great orator. These skills allow him to effectively stir intense emotional responses in his audiences.
9) Democrats were elected across the board, not just for the presidency.
When you consider all the factors weighing against the Republicans in this election, it’s not unreasonable to project that the Democratic candidate could have been an aardvark wearing a bad toupee, and still have won the race.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:48 am
…oops, I meant to say TrollSpeaker. Forgot to captalise the “S.” My apologies for getting it wrong the first time.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:48 am
IVAN3MAN, is there a face in those pieces of toast? Did you make that toast yourself? I swear I see jebus weeping in them!
November 5th, 2008 at 8:50 am
Oh Ivan3Man, how I love your little photo tables.
Oooh! Oooh! I’ve got one!*
An important aside, while I’m happy Obama won the election, I don’t fundamentally think McCain is a bad person, and I do have some respect for him.
Palin on the other hand…
November 5th, 2008 at 8:50 am
@Larian LeQuella
Really? I see a scorched smiley face.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:52 am
I didn’t end up voting for Obama (I actually wanted to, and probably would have, if the Dems didn’t control the Congress at the levels they have) but I am going to support him. He’s my President, I’m an American (despite all the trolls that always want to divide us into the Dem vs Repub camps), and I’m very proud of the fact that we got through this election the way we did. What a country.
And honestly, we are a great role model for all the other nations on this planet. They were all watching this election. It’s just another reason for the youth in Iran (or anywhere else) to look to their Mullah’s and say “um, why the heck are we not allowed to vote like that?”.
Now to the McCain bashers- he’s a war hero and really decent guy. He’s done more for this country than many others. If you listened to his concession speech I think you would better be able to appreciate his humility and love of country. He completely supported Obama in his concession. That stands in great contrast to the vitriol that has been spewing on the blogs and other websites for the last few months.
Well, whatever, my guy didn’t win, congrats to Obama supporters, and I’m on the team now.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:54 am
Two things:
Folks, stop calling TruthSpeaker a troll. I don’t think he is. He’s speaking his mind. A troll posts just to stir up trouble. That may be part of why TS is posting, but I think it’s more about him speaking out about his disappointment. I disagree strongly with his premise, as I made clear above, but that doesn’t make him a troll.
And those of you telling him to shut up: that’s not your right, that’s not your place, and that’s not my idea of free discourse. I have rules on this blog, but he has not violated them. In fact, some of you telling him to be quiet are violating my "don’t be a jerk" rule.
Criminy. I have a post alluding to hope, to change, and to a very bright future of the United States pulling itself out of this deep, deep hole we’re in. I know there’s a lot of lingering resentment; I feel it too. But to TruthSpeaker and everyone else, can we please, for this one moment at least, enjoy that moment?
November 5th, 2008 at 9:00 am
@Some Canadian Skeptic:
Well put. Hopefully this will put the the Republican party back on track.
And as to why Obama won – I think it had to do with this election actually being a referendum against Bush and the Republicans and not about the other guy’s race.
Dale
November 5th, 2008 at 9:00 am
I am so happy this morning. I feel so relieved. I am really proud of President Elect Obama. Good for him!
However, on a less happy note it looks like our mutual friend Hal Bidlack did not fare well against his opponent. Maybe next time, Hal.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:01 am
I woke up this morning and there was the Sun rising in the East. It still would have risen if McCain was elected or if Bob Barr was elected. In the big scheme of things it does not really matter who is President because in 4 or 8 years we will have a new one. What we need to work on is changing the partisan politics. Congress needs to work to fix the problems the political process has created. I hope Pelosi and Reid will do this, but I’m not holding my breath.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:06 am
You know, I bet that when J.F.K. was elected back in 1960 there were a lot of Catholics who would have said that they never believed that a Catholic would be elected president in their lifetimes, but that didn’t mean that they voted for him only because they were Catholic.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:08 am
Hopefully this will put the the Republican party back on track.
I hope so. This is not the party I joined many 22 years ago.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:11 am
Congradulation to you guys on the Obama win. I didn’t vote for him mostly on his tax “plan”.
We’ll see how this presidency goes.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:12 am
Truthspeaker said:
Because the mainstream media want soundbites, not substance. What you have done is observe that the TV reports are all about Obama’s skin colour and you have conflated this with the sum total of reasons why people voted for him.
I am sure that some voters voted for him for the reason you state – in the same way that some voters always vote for the guy whose looks they best like.
I am also sure that some voters voted for Obama because the Republican Bush administration screwed over science and took the country to a war that has rather dubious justification and no end in sight.
I am also sure that some voters voted for Obama because Palin is an ignorant, inarticulate, possibly-closet-creationist, quite-possibly-incompetent buffoon.
I am also sure that some voters voted for Obama because they believed in his policies, and felt that he most closely represented them.
And so on.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:12 am
President-elect Obama has promised to offset the costs of his many new entitlement programs with unspecified cuts in other government programs.
Expect NASA to be on the chopping block.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:13 am
But I have to Ask this.
What has President-Elect done during his time in the Senate?
November 5th, 2008 at 9:21 am
@Mark- He hasn’t done anything in Congress quite frankly (Illinois house or as a Senator- he doesn’t have a single important legislative initiative headed by him). Nor does he have any executive experience at all. He hasn’t led anything except a masterful Presidential campaign (which is impressive). But he is going to be the new President of the most powerful nation on the planet. So I think we had all better come together and try to get this country moving again. The economy stinks, the electorate has voted, and we’re going to try a new path. I really hope it works.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:23 am
@MarkH
If you go to the Senate web site, you can look up every senator and see how they have voted, what bills they have introduced and so on.
Click on my name for the link.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:26 am
That might have sounded a bit dismissive of President Obama. I should re-tune that a bit.
I’m very worried about his lack of experience. But one thing with the Presidency is that it’s not a one man job. A huge part of the job is surrounding yourself with competent advisors, cabinet members, etc. I think he’s going to do a very good job with that (well, except for Rahm as Chief of Staff- memo to Obama- picking a former male ballet dancer is probably not the most macho of moves).
In terms of what he can do to heal race relations in this country- epic advancement.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:29 am
Phil:
I for one am really diggin’ it!
Squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
OK, I’m better now.
This morning I bought 3 books for door prizes at my club’s monthly meetings. Canya guess which ones?
Yup, 2 “Death From the Skies” and a “Bad Astronomy” for good measure.
Oh yeah!
Rich in Charlottesville
November 5th, 2008 at 9:30 am
@ Todd W.
Thanks! I picked that picture because it summed up my thoughts exactly. There’s a similar picture at the “Index card of truth” thread; in case you haven’t seen it, click on my name for the link.
@ Larian LeQuella
No, I did not make the toast myself, but I’m going to now for my late afternoon tea break. I’ll let you know if Jebus appears in them.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:31 am
@Todd- That is a good site. An official Senate website. It shows Barack as “Not Voting” about 75% of the time. And no introduction of a single important piece of legislation. I hope he’s a better President than a Senator (and I think he will be).
November 5th, 2008 at 9:33 am
I voted for Obama because he has run a brilliant campaign with organization and use of technology that speak volumes about his talent and intelligence. I voted for Obama because he’s articulate, he consistently calls for unity and inclusion, his politics compared to the opposition, his choice of VP over the opposition, his articulate and impressive spouse, and his youth. The fact that he’s also of mixed race and the message of hope and empowerment that his election sends to the world is just wonderful icing on the cake.
It’s hard to imagine that a man who ran the best presidential campaign in history would turn out to be a poor manager of this country. I’m sure he’ll have his failings just as every president has. He certainly inherits a colossal mess that will be very difficult to correct. But his election gives me great optimism not only for his success as president, but in this country’s willingness to participate in moving the country in a better direction.
It’s a brilliant morning!
November 5th, 2008 at 9:33 am
…yet, certain peeps are spoiling that moment, Phil with grossly unfounded cynicism. I suppose you can claim TS as sincere…but my gut reaction tends to lean on trolling until evidence proves to me otherwise. I’ve seen this kinda thing too many times before not to conclude that.
Either way, I’m enjoying the new sunrise.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:37 am
Phil, I’m going to have to disagree with you about TruthSeeker not being a troll. Yes, he may just be speaking his mind, but he has the second comment on a post in which the comments will obviously be pro Obama, and he makes his comments in a trollish fashion bringing up race being a deciding factor with nothing but anecdotal evidence on a skeptical blog.
Essentially, the posts are formed as if he is just looking for a fight. But I agree, it’s a day to at least be hopeful for this country, even though the day is bittersweet.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:45 am
@Cheyenne
Keep in mind that a lot of those “Not Voting” ones were recent and during his campaign for President. Not that that excuses him, but I can understand that rather than voting on bills he hasn’t had time to read he abstained from voting. Take a look at the dates associated with the measures up for a vote. It’s only from about April or so of last year (when the campaigns were really starting to get going) that his “Not Voting” ratio goes up.
I took a look at McCain’s Senate web site, but he doesn’t have a voting record link.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:47 am
@Cheyenne
Project Vote Smart has McCain’s voting record, as well as Obama’s. Click my name for the link, then search for either senator.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:51 am
trolls or toadies, I thought you were going to come together now the election is over.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:53 am
@Todd- Yes of course I understand that and it makes perfect sense for the dates he was campaigning. But he wasn’t campaigning for President two years ago, and he certainly wasn’t when he was in the Illinois senate- and yet he has the record for the most abstained votes during those time periods.
But I really shouldn’t have even brought that up. It’s history and I’m all for moving on. Incredible election (but I’m glad it’s finally over).
November 5th, 2008 at 9:53 am
I have faith that we’ve made the right choice as a nation. Elected a man who is thoughtful, intelligent, surrounds himself with experts & rationally and calmly looks at an issue before making a decision.
That is a heck of a lot better than the snap judgements we’ve seen made in the last eight years.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:56 am
@Truthspeaker:
Obama won because he inspired Americans of all creeds and and color to vote for him. Your candidate didn’t.
Indeed some people voted for Obama because he was black, but others voted for him in spite of it. Many voters may have just voted on the issues. How else to you explain his success in Virginia and and North Carolina? Last I checked those states don’t poll for a lot of guilt-ridden whites willing to chance the presidency on a black man simply because they felt sorry for his race.
In my view McCain lost because:
1. He ran a lousy campaign. Too many lies (some of them contradictory) about his opponent, and really bad strategy overall.
2. He named Sarah Palin as his VP. She may have charged up the “values” voters, but she alienates nearly everyone else. And her shenanigans in Alaska certainly give lie to her “reformer” label.
3. His response to the economic crisis was both erratic, and showed he couldn’t lead his own party, even after 26 years in the senate. Remember how the Republicans bailed on the first vote for the bailout McCain supposedly help broker?
If Obama had committed all those mistakes I doubt he would gotten even 30% of the national vote. McCain still managed to get 47%. That sir is evidence for racism.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:01 am
I’d say that Obama’s skin colour was a complete wash. Yes, virtually all Blacks voted for him. But then again, my parents live in Oklahoma right now, and my dad was stunned by the number of co-workers (including fellow engineers and deep-south scientists) who literally, literally said, “I ain’t voting for no Black man!”
Rather I suspect that the major reason for Obama’s victory was anti-Bush backlash. People are really starting to hate that guy, and that helped Obama a great deal. If not for that, I think that Clinton would have won the Democratic nomination, and we’d have had another squeaker of an election between her and McCain. Then NEXT time Obama would have won the nomination, or maybe the time after (when he is old and used up:P, like most presidents).
November 5th, 2008 at 10:05 am
As an addendum:
I’m Canadian, but I lived in the US for a while. I always figured that the US and Canada were pretty much the same in most ways, except for some minor, unimportant cultural differences. But the sheer amount of racism in the US is STAGGERING. I was taken aback, because I’d never experienced anything like it before. And I, frankly, have spent all my time in Canada living in ultra-conservative Hicksville (Alberta and Saskatchewan). So I thought that SURELY the US wouldn’t be any worse than it is here. But it is. A lot worse.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:11 am
I’m not afraid to admit it. I voted for Obama because he is half white. If he had only been a quarter white, the decision would have been much tougher.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:13 am
Yes, we
candid!November 5th, 2008 at 10:15 am
The problem is that some folks (republicans) are just crying that obama was elected just cuz he’s a black man.
What would they have said if McCain was elected and democrats were crying “He was elected cuz you’re all a bunch of racists”? They would have snuffed at democrats.
This is ridiculous. It’s not about race. He IS the first “african-american” guy to be president. But that’s just a statistic. It just shows that at least the majority of america moved past races, and that’s awesome. I hope no one voted for his skin color only. Race doesn’t exist. He’s a human and that’s all that matters!
I hope all the folks that voted for him just voted for him cuz he was just the smartest choice.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:22 am
Interestingly I thought Truthspeaker had a sort of perverse and cocky courage in putting his /her/its ideas out there in the face of what is obviously a critical audience on a day when we’ve all been asked to put aside partisan differences and pull together to make ourselves the best we can. That courage doesn’t make his suppositions correct, based as they are on anecdotal evidence at best… but I do defend the right to say what he/she/it said.
I’d be more in admiration of his/her/its courage if If he/she/it had told us his/her/its real name…
November 5th, 2008 at 10:25 am
I admit it. I am biased. I have a thing for smart people. Even in high school, when the other girls were drooling over the captain of the football team, I dated the goofy kid who would go to Harvard, and I married a Stanford grad. I see in Obama a calm intelligence, a work ethic, and a genuine desire to fix our broken country. I’m not too concerned with his “experience.” I mean, what other job can really prepare you to be President of the United States? Prime Minister of Great Britain maybe? It comes down to intelligence and the willingness to consider advice from experts. That’s what Obama has. That is why I voted for him. His race is an interesting footnote, nothing more.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:28 am
I’d be more in admiration of his/her/its courage if If he/she/it had told us his/her/its real name….
His name is Joe Six Pack…or the plumber. I’m always getting those two confused.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:44 am
TruthSpeaker, did you get your information from Wing Nut Daily? They linked to the National Review. Hopefully this will get through, I left off the beginning, through the // to keep it from being considered a link:
corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZjZiYjA5ZmM3MTgzMjkwYzUzNmM3NDIzYjY0ODFlYTI=
Their first story was about how Hamas congratulated Obama on his victory. Remember how whiny right wing media was during the Clinton years? Judging from the boos that McCain got during his concession speech I have a feeling it’s going to be a lot worse. Let’s hope that he will be allowed to do his job and not have constant harassment about trivialities that lead to the government wasting millions of tax payer dollars just to the children that make up the Republican party can throw their tantrums.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:49 am
That’s not a sunrise.
This is a sunrise.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:53 am
Yes, virtually all Blacks voted for him.
African Americans tend to favor Democrats anyway, whether black, white, gray, whatever. I haven’t seen yet (doubtless I will soon enough) if there was a significant jump this time.
November 5th, 2008 at 10:53 am
@ all & Dr. BA:
“Truthsayer” has posted similar if not exact comments on other sites, including AOL forums, the Washington Times, Politics West, Newser, and Topix, amongst others.
I’m sorry to be so cynical, Dr. BA, but that’s troll behavior.
Now I’ll go crawl back under my own bridge for the rest of the morning.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:03 am
I’m also curious about something else. I’m wondering who the new junior Senator from Illinois will be. Definitely a Democrat since our governor is a Democrat, and the new person’s term will end in 2010. At first I thought that it would be Rahm Emanuel, but it sounds like he may be the White House chief of staff.
(Sorry if this is a bit too “All politics is local” for the Web…)
November 5th, 2008 at 11:14 am
@Truthsayer the other party fracked up nothing more than that.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:37 am
Be careful what you wish for. With no checks and balances liberalism could be a nasty animal indeed. It has happened before.
November 5th, 2008 at 11:46 am
@Truthspeaker:
While it is a historic moment in thee sense that Obama is black, he is also the best man for the job. McCain is an old man slipping into senility. His running mate displays all the intelligence of a potato, and you say THIS is a sad day for America?
Get a life, and move to a country you would be happy in… maybe a true theocracy… Iran?
November 5th, 2008 at 11:47 am
I meant Truthsayer…
November 5th, 2008 at 11:49 am
@Mena – Probably Jesse Jackson Jr. In Illinois it’s machine politics, and the kid has the inside track from his daddy.
November 5th, 2008 at 12:00 pm
@ dziban303
I checked the source code, and it appears that the problem you had in posting your picture was that you neglected to add the “.jpg” suffix to your image source at “picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/oOD9e-68SUazFehWTirQuQ”. Also, you need to re-size your image/picture to 500 pixels or less, which is the limit here.
BTW, nice sunrise picture.
November 5th, 2008 at 12:14 pm
[...] think it’s pretty cool that one of my sunrise photos got picked up by the Discover Magazine blog as part of their 2008 US Election blogging. Wonder if they realized the sunrise was over Calgary, [...]
November 5th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
@kuhnigget
I have never posted on any of the other forums you mentioned. I am using the screen name “TruthSpeaker” which is different from “TruthSayer.”
You can think me a troll and call me a racist all you want (by the way, did I ever mention my own race?). I stand by my arguments. I will post more later when my work day ends.
November 5th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
it’s time to roll up our sleeves and get to work.
Of course *some* of us have already been doing that.
November 5th, 2008 at 12:29 pm
@ Truthsayer: While I am with you on your grief for this nation today about who was elected, I disagree that Obama was elected because of the color of his skin. This was simply a Democratic year with the state of the economy (how Democrats in Congress weren’t equally punished for that mess I’ll never understand) and the general opinion of President Bush. McCain did the best job he could have given the circumstances, but he really needed to pull of a miracle and he just couldn’t deliver given the disparity in fundraising.
That being said, I am not happy with this result like many of the people here. For example, the public financing of presidential elections is dead thanks to Obama. No candidate in their right mind would choose that when they know there are big bucks to go after as Obama has demonstrated. It is a bit ironic that such a Democratic issue, public financing, was killed by the actions of a Democrat.
Second, the larger majorities in Congress for the Democrats will mean that there won’t be as much stopping Obama from ramming his agenda through. The one thing I can take solace with is that the Democratic party is just as split as the Republicans find themselves. The Democratic party, when you look at the people elected to the house, has shifted markedly to the right, in order to go after conservatives who were unhappy with the Republican brand. So Obama may have to stick to the things that he and McCain agreed on, like climate change policy and some parts of the energy plan. So while everyone is celebrating, keep in mind that probably for the first year, Obama’s presidency may not look all that different from what a McCain presidency would have.
What happens beyond that will depend on who wins the tug-of-war. If Obama tries to pull Congress more to the left, expect a Democratic massacre in 2010. If the Blue-Dogs in Congress succeed in keeping Obama to the middle, I think Obama has a good shot at a second term.
November 5th, 2008 at 12:34 pm
The irony of Prop 8’s victory is that it seems to have been pushed over the top by the minority voters who came out for Obama.
Hopefully this will put the the Republican party back on track.
We’ll see. I think a 60:40 split in the Senate might have helped that along a bit, but it didn’t happen. I lost a $20 bet there.
However I won $150 in various bets that Obama would get over 330 electoral votes. In fact, my prediction was only one state off. Two bets were here at work, so today was a good day. I will be buying Fallout 3 with the proceeds later.
You people really need to respect my mojo more.
November 5th, 2008 at 1:04 pm
QD, I fear you are right about the reason prop 8 was passed. Minority rights are great, as long as it’s my minority, right?
On another note, I thought McCain gave a great concession speech (and not just because he conceded), I thought he was generous and, ironically, statesmanlike. Too bad he felt he couldn’t be himself throughout the campaign.
November 5th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
@Pieter Kok
I only caught a snippet of McCain’s speech, but what I heard sounded a lot more like the pre-Presidential race McCain than what we’ve heard recently.
November 5th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
Ahh, morning in America.
Reminds me of a great leader and gentleman who long ago ran two positive campaigns, held to his beliefs, and ultimately stood on top of the Berlin wall to make a simple, unassailable demand.
I wish Obama well with his turn.
November 5th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Truthseeker I can’t believe how unskeptical and ignorant you are. It is appalling and horrifying that you are racist against communities across America by visciously attacking Obama with your antiscience hate by claiming that ‘race’ which science has PROVEN has NO effect on ANYTHING except SKIN COLOR could be a factor in this election.
November 5th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
McCain’s concession speech was dignified and eloquent. It was the earlier McCain of 8 years ago. Perhaps his campaign managers got the better of him this time or he himself lost his way or his personal wartime experiences as a prisoner deflected the inclusiveness a national leader needs and slightly opened the door to irrational choices (Palen for one). Nevertheless, his offer to work with Obama was to me the real McCain.
Ironically some people have asked rhetorically, “Why couldn’t the Al Gore of 2000 have been more like the articulate, Nobel Prize winning Al Gore of today?” Intelligent people change and grow.
Obama can be a truly great US President and he will bring a lot of good people from both sides into his administration. Something both Lincoln and FDR did.
November 5th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
1.) If you are someone who voted for Obama because you looked at the issues, compared the candidates, and came to a decision you have my thanks. This is the way Americans should choose their candidate. My comments have not been directed at you. I believe, sadly, that you are in the minority of Obama supporters. Is my evidence anecdotal? Yes, but it is the best I have. I stand by my statement that a signigicant enough portion of Obama’s votes were cast based on emotion and not thought.
2.) I am aware of the failings of Bush. I am no fan of his, nor McCain. To bring up these two in response to my initial post is pointless. If BA makes a post about Palin’s antiscience stance, and people respond by criticizing Obama he calls them out on it and tells them to stay on topic. I will do the same thing.
3.) While I hate to do it, I guess I will defend the racism charge. I am no racist. Many of my coworkers are black as is my boss (and she’s a woman to boot). I am proud and happy to work under her because she has shown herself to be a capable leader and very qualified for her job. I do not believe she was put in place because of the color of her skin. She is actively working as my mentor as I work my up through the ranks of our organization and I am glad to have her help. I would happily vote for a black man, an Asian woman, or any other combination one can think of. I choose whom to support based on their policies, beliefs, and principles.
4.) Believe it or not, my issue is not with the fact that Obama was elected. I am taking issue with what I believe to be the motive behind a significant (significant enough to get him elected) number of his supporters.
5.) Many people have said things to the effect of, “Well how many people voted for McCain because he is white?” I don’t know, but anyone that votes for anyone because of the color of their skin is an idiot. There is a video floating around the internet showing McCain supporters shouting down a group of Obama supporters. When pressed for details the McCain supporters say things like, “I would never vote for a black man.” I find their beliefs and statements equally stupid as those that vote for someone because they are black.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:04 pm
@everyone calling TruthSpeaker racist
Although I do not agree with any of the statements he has made regarding Obama’s election, I do agree that his comments have not come off sounding racist to me. He has not characterized a group of people based on their skin color and declared them inferior because of that color. He has stated that the majority of people (no specific race identified) who supported Obama and voted for him did so because of Obama’s color. It is other commenters who have been mentioning specific racial groups.
@TruthSpeaker
You have maintained your stance that the majority of those who voted for Obama did so from an emotional standpoint and did so because of his skin color, rather than on any of his policies or other aspect of the man. You have based this opinion on anecdotal evidence (emotional responses to Obama’s election that the media has chosen to focus on). Of the examples you have provided, none of them have explicitly said “I voted for him because he is black.”
Those who have argued against you have presented the CNN exit polls as evidence that for those ho voted for (or against) Obama, race was not a factor or was only a minor consideration. We don’t know the methodology of the poll or what measures were taken to reduce error; people that respoded may have downplayed race as a factor in an effort to sound more PC. That said, though, what is your response to that poll?
Also, of the people who responded here saying they voted for Obama, none have said that they voted for him because he is black. Does that have any impact on your position?
Did some people vote for Obama out of some emotional response? Undoubtedly (fear of McCain/Palin, distaste for Bush, dislike of the current Republican party, hope that Obama can make a difference, etc.). Was that emotional response unanimously related to Obama’s skin color? Possible, but unlikely. Of those who voted for Obama because he is black, were their numbers crucial to his victory? It doesn’t seem like it.
The skeptical, reasoned position would stop short of a definite “He won because he is black.” If, as you claim, you are truly a skeptic, then you will find solid evidence to support your stance or, barring the availability of solid facts, allow for the possibility that there may be another explanation.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
My country elected a black man president…yes, that makes me very, very proud to be an American. It is a bonus that they elected him largely because of the failed policies of the Republicans…something people like “Truthspeaker” (there’s irony writ large) would like to gloss over.
On the other hand, my own state passed a bigoted, anti-gay proposition that makes me deeply ashamed to be a Californian.
Can’t have everything, I guess.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Yay!!
Like most of the rest of the world I am looking forward to seeing the US taken in a new direction. To anyone who still feels bitter about the result – be thankful that you have a democratic process, there are many around the world who don’t – imagine that.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
People need to stop seeing Barack Obama as a black man, and just see him as a man. When that happens, that will be the real victory.
November 5th, 2008 at 5:11 pm
@ Truthspeaker:
My apologies if those other posts I listed were not you. The language is oddly similar, so forgive my apparently incorrect conclusion. And for the record, at no time did I call you racist, merely a troll. By the way, racism is not dependent upon a person’s own race, so your background is moot.
Also for the record, at no time have I seen you post any data to back up your claims, to wit:
“The fact that intelligent people supported Obama has nothing to do with the wrongness of the fact that most others supported him for no valid reason.”
If this is just your opinion, as you later suggest, you may wish to express it without using loaded words such as “fact.”
Just a helpful suggestion for future clarity.
November 5th, 2008 at 6:01 pm
Well I am of the opinion that most people voted for Obama not because of his skin color, but because of his charisma (the ‘hope and change’ message that Truthseeker mentioned) and out of resentment towards the past eight years of Republican dominance. I did; the policies he has let us in on so far have not been brilliant, but are at least level-headed, which is more than I can say for McCains, therefore I supported Obama instead. And charisma is, I think, often underestimated. It’s a valuable trait to have if you are intent on being a diplomat, and it will be a nice change of pace to have some in the oval office after eight years with Bush.
That said, I believe I am in the same boat as TruthSeeker in that I do not think the majority of voters voted for Obama in support of any particular policies of his. I don’t, however, think that that is something particular to him, and in fact the same could be said about anyone running for office.
November 5th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
TruthSpeaker said:
5.) Many people have said things to the effect of, “Well how many people voted for McCain because he is white?” I don’t know, but anyone that votes for anyone because of the color of their skin is an idiot.
I am in perfect agreement with you and to me, that very point should put an end to this “argument”. The “debate” is pointless because we probably would have gone the same route/discourse should McCain have won (”Republicans won ’cause of white racists refusing to vote for a colored person, that tipped the scale”).
Note that in my view of democracy, nobody is to criticise anybody’s reason to vote, that is private. You’ll never get rid of the “color-influenced vote”, on either side. You just have to accept those votes, and condemn racism in all aspects of life (not just politics).
November 5th, 2008 at 6:23 pm
…to refine my statement:
When racism disappears, with everybody understanding it is reprehensible, color-influenced votes will disappear by themselves.
Obviously we are not there yet, but hopefully having the first African-American president now will help set the table such that we do not have these kind of arguments 20 years from now. I am thinking it can only help reduce racism, unless Obama really messes up and exacerbates things.
And yes, I am an idealist.
November 5th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
The Devil: “People need to stop seeing Barack Obama as a black man, and just see him as a man. When that happens, that will be the real victory.”
That’s the next step; the first step is that the man was elected at all. Progress doesn’t come all at once.
November 5th, 2008 at 8:09 pm
With that sunrise, Phil, what we need is a couple of giant griddles for some pancakes and bacon (Canadian bacon, of course), some Quebec maple syrup and a few giant pots of coffee and hot water for the tea drinkers.
Let’s enjoy the warmth of the sun’s rays on our faces, eat a collective meal, and be happy that there wasn’t DEATH FROM THE SKIES last night.
It’s a great day to be alive, folks, and today is very different from yesterday, for a myriad of reasons. Regardless of ideologies or dogmas, we all live together on this little blue dot out in a corner of immense, dark, and frigid space. For a non-descript planet whirling around a completely average star, we sure are a complex bunch.
November 6th, 2008 at 1:23 am
QD, I fear you are right about the reason prop 8 was passed. Minority rights are great, as long as it’s my minority, right?
Welcome to the essential tribal nature of humanity. It has all sorts of modern trappings and rationalizations using our painstakingly evolved capacity for intelligence, but underneath it all is the biological wiring resulting from tribal war and the benefits it brought back in the hazy dawn of human sentience.
I mean,forget race and religion. Look how rabid people can get over things like XBox360 versus PS3.
Sheesh!
November 6th, 2008 at 3:07 am
Look how rabid people can get over things like XBox360 versus PS3.
Mac and PC?
November 6th, 2008 at 3:44 am
@”TruthSpeaker”
Why the racism charge?
“Yesterday, a man was elected President of the United States because of the color of his skin.”
Broad, sweeping generalization about race with no evidence to support it. If not racism, it’s prejudice for certain.
“If I had gone to any one of the rallys/parties that broke out – the ones where black people were in tears – and asked some tough questions, I would have been met with a blank stare.”
Obama voters = emotional blacks incapable of raising logical support for their vote. Oh yes, again with the baseless generalization. That sounds like racism to me.
“People saw a black man on the ticket and let their emotions take over. Votes were cast based on the amount of melanin an individual has in his skin.”
OK. That explains McCain voters, but…
“I never thought I would live to see the day where a black man is President.” How many times have we heard and seen that statement in the last 12 hours?
That sentiment doesn’t arise from a vacuum. People who have studied US history understand the origins.
I celebrated Obama’s victory in a ballroom crowded with fellow supporters. They were from many races: true American polychromatic. Didn’t see that at McCain’s concession.
And attaching emotion to a moment of historical significance is nothing to be apologized for. Nor does it render the event somehow “wrong.” Why did people weep on July 20, 1969? And were those tears an indictment of the US space program, exposing it for the irrational boondoggle it must have been? Not at all.
(And that’s my real name up at the top of the post; no anonymity invoked. Thanks for spelling it correctly should you care to address me.)
November 6th, 2008 at 3:52 am
Law Mom said:
LOL!
Have you seen our current Prime Minister?
November 6th, 2008 at 3:53 am
Besides, Great Britain is a geographical feature. The political nation is the United Kingdom.
November 6th, 2008 at 6:17 am
As I said:
“Remember, remember the 5th of November!” (V for Vendetta)
Let’s see what the day brought the world. Let’s hope that the hope in Obama is not in vain!
November 6th, 2008 at 9:35 am
Voting for a Magna Cum Laude graduate against an established good old boy network is hardly a nod to racism. It IS a statement of hope for a more thoughtful future.
It’s often been said that for any individual from a disenfranchised minority to succeed in the white culture, they have to work twice as hard and be twice as smart as their competition.
That’s why I voted for Obama,,,
GAry 7
November 6th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
@Some Canadian Skeptic
“Voters in Arkansas, Arizona, California, and Florida have demonstrated the hatred and bigotry of the new nigger in America: the homosexual. Antiquated religious dogma, backed by millions of dollars to spread blatent lied designed to appeal to people’s lower-natures (fear, anger, and more fear) have truly stained what should otherwise be a great day for America…
Still, it was a fantastic victory in the right direction. Hopefully, the example set by Obama and his supporters will spread, and the bigotry and hatred demostrated by those states will one day reverse the decisions made last night”
Hmmm, interesting. Here’s an excerpt from this year’s Vice Presidential debate:
“IFILL: Let’s try to avoid nuance, Senator. Do you support gay marriage?
BIDEN: No. Barack Obama nor I support redefining from a civil side what constitutes marriage. We do not support that. That is basically the decision to be able to be able to be left to faiths and people who practice their faiths the determination what you call it.”
It seems to me that the Obama administration supports the results of what happened in Arizona, Arkansas, California, and Florida.
November 7th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
***4.) Believe it or not, my issue is not with the fact that Obama was elected. I am taking issue with what I believe to be the motive behind a significant (significant enough to get him elected) number of his supporters.***
But leaders are always voted in on the basis of lies. No one ever debates the real issues, because the swing voters are too stupid to understande them. Anyone who *thinks* about things will stick with a Party for life unless the situation changes radicaly.
January 20th, 2009 at 7:00 am
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