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	<title>Comments on: It&#8217;s a new day&#8230; for Chandrayaan-1</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/11/05/its-a-new-day-for-chadrayaan-1/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/11/05/its-a-new-day-for-chadrayaan-1/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
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		<title>By: American Voyager</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/11/05/its-a-new-day-for-chadrayaan-1/comment-page-1/#comment-132344</link>
		<dc:creator>American Voyager</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 21:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/11/05/its-a-new-day-for-chadrayaan-1/#comment-132344</guid>
		<description>One little thing to add to Jack&#039;s post above.  It is my understanding that Apollo 12&#039;s S-IVb returned to Earth orbit via the Earth-Moon L2 point and left the same way.  They also expect it to come back in the next few decades again.  Apparently those points, especially L1 &amp; L2, are not only stable, but act as portals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One little thing to add to Jack&#8217;s post above.  It is my understanding that Apollo 12&#8217;s S-IVb returned to Earth orbit via the Earth-Moon L2 point and left the same way.  They also expect it to come back in the next few decades again.  Apparently those points, especially L1 &#038; L2, are not only stable, but act as portals.</p>
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		<title>By: IVAN3MAN</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/11/05/its-a-new-day-for-chadrayaan-1/comment-page-1/#comment-132314</link>
		<dc:creator>IVAN3MAN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 18:37:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/11/05/its-a-new-day-for-chadrayaan-1/#comment-132314</guid>
		<description>AJ:

&lt;blockquote&gt;[...] It’s a pity that good science requires large amounts of money in today’s world, and we have to direct lots of our money to social causes. [...]&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yeah, like over US$1,500,000,000 on the recent US President Election 2008 campaign!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AJ:</p>
<blockquote><p>[...] It’s a pity that good science requires large amounts of money in today’s world, and we have to direct lots of our money to social causes. [...]</p></blockquote>
<p>Yeah, like over US$1,500,000,000 on the recent US President Election 2008 campaign!</p>
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		<title>By: Jagadeesh Venugopal</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/11/05/its-a-new-day-for-chadrayaan-1/comment-page-1/#comment-132299</link>
		<dc:creator>Jagadeesh Venugopal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 17:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/11/05/its-a-new-day-for-chadrayaan-1/#comment-132299</guid>
		<description>I think that the Indians did not attempt a direct moon shot but rather this loopy route because the PSLV booster could not lift more than about 1500 or so kilograms. With this weight limitation, there is only so much fuel you can have on board the satellite. Keep in mind that the PSLV booster was initially meant to put satellites into sun synchronous or low earth orbits. 

Now India could have gotten there a lot quicker with the GSLV booster, which is capable of lifting around 2000 kilograms, but the vehicle is not yet as reliable as the PSLV. For one thing it depends on a Russian engine for one stage. For another, at least two of the four launches have had problems with underperformance (the first and the fourth). Additionally the third launch was a total failure, but that could have been due to a manufacturing and not a design defect. 

The noteworthy aspect of this mission (assuming it is successful) is not that India orbited a satellite around the moon, but it is that they did it on a very small budget, by repurposing existing and proven rocket components. In a sense, the Indian Space Research Organization is to rocketry as Tata Motors is to inexpensive cars. If they manage to get the larger GSLV booster working reliably and at low cost, they will be in a position to supply both satellites and launch services as some sort of a package deal to interested parties.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that the Indians did not attempt a direct moon shot but rather this loopy route because the PSLV booster could not lift more than about 1500 or so kilograms. With this weight limitation, there is only so much fuel you can have on board the satellite. Keep in mind that the PSLV booster was initially meant to put satellites into sun synchronous or low earth orbits. </p>
<p>Now India could have gotten there a lot quicker with the GSLV booster, which is capable of lifting around 2000 kilograms, but the vehicle is not yet as reliable as the PSLV. For one thing it depends on a Russian engine for one stage. For another, at least two of the four launches have had problems with underperformance (the first and the fourth). Additionally the third launch was a total failure, but that could have been due to a manufacturing and not a design defect. </p>
<p>The noteworthy aspect of this mission (assuming it is successful) is not that India orbited a satellite around the moon, but it is that they did it on a very small budget, by repurposing existing and proven rocket components. In a sense, the Indian Space Research Organization is to rocketry as Tata Motors is to inexpensive cars. If they manage to get the larger GSLV booster working reliably and at low cost, they will be in a position to supply both satellites and launch services as some sort of a package deal to interested parties.</p>
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		<title>By: Nigel Depledge</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/11/05/its-a-new-day-for-chadrayaan-1/comment-page-1/#comment-132205</link>
		<dc:creator>Nigel Depledge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 12:12:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/11/05/its-a-new-day-for-chadrayaan-1/#comment-132205</guid>
		<description>American Voyager said:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Wow! Do you know how refreshing it is to see a mission launched to the Moon again? Our neighbor is fascinating and we have virtually ignored it because some deam it “boring”. No way! Not only is it not boring, but it’s CLOSE! Arriving at your destination only 17 days after launch??? What a treat in this day and age when the average wait time from launch to data return is measured in YEARS. Go India go!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The Apollo missions did this in 3 days, but they first had to heft a helluva lot more propellant into orbit.  Hence, in part, the requisite size of the Saturn V.  (The rest of the need for such a powerful rocket was the sheer size of the LEM and the CSM - IIRC, a fully-loaded LEM was about 9 tons for Apollos 11, 12, 13 and 14, and about 12 tons for Apollos 15, 16 and 17).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>American Voyager said:</p>
<blockquote><p>Wow! Do you know how refreshing it is to see a mission launched to the Moon again? Our neighbor is fascinating and we have virtually ignored it because some deam it “boring”. No way! Not only is it not boring, but it’s CLOSE! Arriving at your destination only 17 days after launch??? What a treat in this day and age when the average wait time from launch to data return is measured in YEARS. Go India go!</p></blockquote>
<p>The Apollo missions did this in 3 days, but they first had to heft a helluva lot more propellant into orbit.  Hence, in part, the requisite size of the Saturn V.  (The rest of the need for such a powerful rocket was the sheer size of the LEM and the CSM &#8211; IIRC, a fully-loaded LEM was about 9 tons for Apollos 11, 12, 13 and 14, and about 12 tons for Apollos 15, 16 and 17).</p>
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		<title>By: AJ</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/11/05/its-a-new-day-for-chadrayaan-1/comment-page-1/#comment-132188</link>
		<dc:creator>AJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 10:37:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/11/05/its-a-new-day-for-chadrayaan-1/#comment-132188</guid>
		<description>Larian LeQuella,

You are indeed being a nasty human being. Good scientific research has no barriers. It just requires a dream, hard work and intelligence. I&#039;m sure my country has enough, if not more of those. It&#039;s a pity that good science requires large amounts of money in today&#039;s world, and we have to direct lots of our money to social causes.  I&#039;m sure you would have heard that the entire mission costed about as much as a Large Jet Liner. Let&#039;s all celebrate the achievement both for the county and for science!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Larian LeQuella,</p>
<p>You are indeed being a nasty human being. Good scientific research has no barriers. It just requires a dream, hard work and intelligence. I&#8217;m sure my country has enough, if not more of those. It&#8217;s a pity that good science requires large amounts of money in today&#8217;s world, and we have to direct lots of our money to social causes.  I&#8217;m sure you would have heard that the entire mission costed about as much as a Large Jet Liner. Let&#8217;s all celebrate the achievement both for the county and for science!</p>
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		<title>By: Steve A</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/11/05/its-a-new-day-for-chadrayaan-1/comment-page-1/#comment-132170</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 09:05:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/11/05/its-a-new-day-for-chadrayaan-1/#comment-132170</guid>
		<description>So, the ISRO was initially going to do this in one shot, but decided to change to five orbital burns in order to make sure they successfully got it into lunar orbit.  This method is a lot less risky and since this was their first mission of this type, they decided to play it safe.

The information from this mission will be more public.  NASA has two instruments on board, several others are from foreign countries, and NASA is also providing communications assistance.  In exchange for this, the information will be shared.  India, as well as Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan and South Korea, have signed a lunar science agreement with the US, all part of its plan to go back to the Moon.  This is a lot more international than the days of Apollo.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, the ISRO was initially going to do this in one shot, but decided to change to five orbital burns in order to make sure they successfully got it into lunar orbit.  This method is a lot less risky and since this was their first mission of this type, they decided to play it safe.</p>
<p>The information from this mission will be more public.  NASA has two instruments on board, several others are from foreign countries, and NASA is also providing communications assistance.  In exchange for this, the information will be shared.  India, as well as Britain, Canada, France, Germany, Italy, Japan and South Korea, have signed a lunar science agreement with the US, all part of its plan to go back to the Moon.  This is a lot more international than the days of Apollo.</p>
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		<title>By: Gordan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/11/05/its-a-new-day-for-chadrayaan-1/comment-page-1/#comment-132166</link>
		<dc:creator>Gordan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Nov 2008 08:40:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/11/05/its-a-new-day-for-chadrayaan-1/#comment-132166</guid>
		<description>Jack: The S-IVB that returned to Earth vicinity briefly is from Apollo 12. Wikipedia excerpt:

&quot;The S-IVB was originally intended to be put into a solar orbit by venting the remaining propellant. However, an extra long burn of the ullage motors meant that venting the remaining propellant in the tank of the S-IVB did not give the rocket stage enough energy to escape the Earth-Moon system and instead the stage ended up in a semi-stable orbit around the Earth after passing by the Moon in November 18, 1969. It finally entered into solar orbit 1971, but returned to Earth orbit (briefly) 31 years later. It was discovered by amateur astronomer Bill Yeung and he gave it the temporary designation J002E3 before it was determined to be an artificial object.&quot;

It&#039;s kind of neat they were able to spectroscopically detect titanium-oxide which made up the paint used on the Saturn V and conclude it&#039;s not an asteroid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack: The S-IVB that returned to Earth vicinity briefly is from Apollo 12. Wikipedia excerpt:</p>
<p>&#8220;The S-IVB was originally intended to be put into a solar orbit by venting the remaining propellant. However, an extra long burn of the ullage motors meant that venting the remaining propellant in the tank of the S-IVB did not give the rocket stage enough energy to escape the Earth-Moon system and instead the stage ended up in a semi-stable orbit around the Earth after passing by the Moon in November 18, 1969. It finally entered into solar orbit 1971, but returned to Earth orbit (briefly) 31 years later. It was discovered by amateur astronomer Bill Yeung and he gave it the temporary designation J002E3 before it was determined to be an artificial object.&#8221;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s kind of neat they were able to spectroscopically detect titanium-oxide which made up the paint used on the Saturn V and conclude it&#8217;s not an asteroid.</p>
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