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	<title>Comments on: If only this weren&#8217;t news</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 14 Feb 2012 12:48:12 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Suburban Panic! &#187; Archive &#187; Scumbag Psychics Have Nothing To Worry About</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/comment-page-1/#comment-140485</link>
		<dc:creator>Suburban Panic! &#187; Archive &#187; Scumbag Psychics Have Nothing To Worry About</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:16:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140485</guid>
		<description>[...] Astronomy links to the story of Lisa Miller, a San Francisco woman sentenced to two months in jail for using a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Astronomy links to the story of Lisa Miller, a San Francisco woman sentenced to two months in jail for using a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Keerax</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/comment-page-1/#comment-140428</link>
		<dc:creator>Keerax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 03:26:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140428</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see what the big deal is.

We all know money is the root of all evil and she was helping her remove it!
;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see what the big deal is.</p>
<p>We all know money is the root of all evil and she was helping her remove it!<br />
 <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Suburban Panic! &#187; Archive &#187; Impending Postage</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/comment-page-1/#comment-140289</link>
		<dc:creator>Suburban Panic! &#187; Archive &#187; Impending Postage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:55:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140289</guid>
		<description>[...] If I don&#8217;t get to it today, it&#8217;ll be ready tomorrow. In the meantime, go read this thread, so you&#8217;ll know what I&#8217;m on about.  addthis_url = [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] If I don&#8217;t get to it today, it&#8217;ll be ready tomorrow. In the meantime, go read this thread, so you&#8217;ll know what I&#8217;m on about.  addthis_url = [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Oskar Kennedy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/comment-page-1/#comment-140230</link>
		<dc:creator>Oskar Kennedy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 16:49:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140230</guid>
		<description>Sorry, PsyberDave, I missed &lt;a href=&quot;http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140020&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;your comment&lt;/a&gt;. You nailed it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, PsyberDave, I missed <a href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140020" rel="nofollow">your comment</a>. You nailed it.</p>
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		<title>By: Oskar Kennedy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/comment-page-1/#comment-140214</link>
		<dc:creator>Oskar Kennedy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140214</guid>
		<description>Spiv gets it exactly right. The court hasn&#039;t passed judgment on the truth or falsity of her predictions. She pleaded no contest for a lighter sentence, and so the court didn&#039;t have to determine whether she was &quot;really&quot; psychic or not. One suspects that she also plead out because she knew that couldn&#039;t convince a court that she had any actual predictive power, but that&#039;s just my speculation.

And to answer the first question, the difference is probably better lawyers, and also better client management. Browne and her ilk are famous enough that they can make a very comfortable living scamming a relatively small amount of money from lots and lots of suckers. If a few folks get wise to her chicanery, their individual losses won&#039;t be significant enough to warrant the expense of suing her. (I&#039;d love - LOVE - to see one of these creeps in the crosshairs of a class action suit, but that&#039;s a skeptical law student wet dream.)

By contrast, this cretin milked a single cow hard enough to put a significant hurt on her. Once the mark suspected fraud, her losses were large enough that it made economic sense to sue. If Ms. Miller had known when to stop working the pump, she might have gotten away with it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spiv gets it exactly right. The court hasn&#8217;t passed judgment on the truth or falsity of her predictions. She pleaded no contest for a lighter sentence, and so the court didn&#8217;t have to determine whether she was &#8220;really&#8221; psychic or not. One suspects that she also plead out because she knew that couldn&#8217;t convince a court that she had any actual predictive power, but that&#8217;s just my speculation.</p>
<p>And to answer the first question, the difference is probably better lawyers, and also better client management. Browne and her ilk are famous enough that they can make a very comfortable living scamming a relatively small amount of money from lots and lots of suckers. If a few folks get wise to her chicanery, their individual losses won&#8217;t be significant enough to warrant the expense of suing her. (I&#8217;d love &#8211; LOVE &#8211; to see one of these creeps in the crosshairs of a class action suit, but that&#8217;s a skeptical law student wet dream.)</p>
<p>By contrast, this cretin milked a single cow hard enough to put a significant hurt on her. Once the mark suspected fraud, her losses were large enough that it made economic sense to sue. If Ms. Miller had known when to stop working the pump, she might have gotten away with it.</p>
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		<title>By: Cheyenne</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/comment-page-1/#comment-140207</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheyenne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 15:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140207</guid>
		<description>I like the result of what occurred (fraudster doing time, some restitution to the victim), but I&#039;m truly a bit worried about the way we got there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_pretenses

You can apply this to anything. I&#039;ve never heard of another case like this and I have no idea of how this doesn&#039;t set a precedent for suing and locking up every other psychic in our country (which might not be so bad but come on...). Or how this doesn&#039;t open the floodgates to anybody that wants to make a claim of &quot;false pretense&quot; over virtually anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like the result of what occurred (fraudster doing time, some restitution to the victim), but I&#8217;m truly a bit worried about the way we got there.</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_pretenses" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_pretenses</a></p>
<p>You can apply this to anything. I&#8217;ve never heard of another case like this and I have no idea of how this doesn&#8217;t set a precedent for suing and locking up every other psychic in our country (which might not be so bad but come on&#8230;). Or how this doesn&#8217;t open the floodgates to anybody that wants to make a claim of &#8220;false pretense&#8221; over virtually anything.</p>
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		<title>By: Spiv</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/comment-page-1/#comment-140194</link>
		<dc:creator>Spiv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 14:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140194</guid>
		<description>Sorry fellas, this case was one because the girl plead no contest. If she had fought the case by saying that no, she honestly believed she had spirits in her and that she was helping the woman, but that this was an arduous task that required significant compensation for her talents, bla bla bla, then she likely would be cruising the streets in her fraudulent little corvette.

The burden is on the prosecution to prove that she did /not/ have the ability to complete the service she was selling.

Furthermore, people like Brown and Edward get even more leeway because their venues define them as a &quot;show,&quot; IE an act, like a magician, for entertainment purposes. Unfortunately most people are dumb enough to assume that&#039;s just legal-mumbo jumbo and that these criminals are still legit.

$5 to the first person to film themselves going to Brown&#039;s show and demanding she make a balloon animal for them. Then again, don&#039;t support that crook by going to her show.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry fellas, this case was one because the girl plead no contest. If she had fought the case by saying that no, she honestly believed she had spirits in her and that she was helping the woman, but that this was an arduous task that required significant compensation for her talents, bla bla bla, then she likely would be cruising the streets in her fraudulent little corvette.</p>
<p>The burden is on the prosecution to prove that she did /not/ have the ability to complete the service she was selling.</p>
<p>Furthermore, people like Brown and Edward get even more leeway because their venues define them as a &#8220;show,&#8221; IE an act, like a magician, for entertainment purposes. Unfortunately most people are dumb enough to assume that&#8217;s just legal-mumbo jumbo and that these criminals are still legit.</p>
<p>$5 to the first person to film themselves going to Brown&#8217;s show and demanding she make a balloon animal for them. Then again, don&#8217;t support that crook by going to her show.</p>
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		<title>By: Nigel Depledge</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/comment-page-1/#comment-140169</link>
		<dc:creator>Nigel Depledge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:18:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140169</guid>
		<description>I have a dream, that one day people will be adequately educated.  That one day, when people leave school to join society, they will possess at least a rudimentary critical faculty.  I have a dream that one day people will value education...

I also recently found out that a creationist cousin of mine just got a job teaching science.  Go figure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a dream, that one day people will be adequately educated.  That one day, when people leave school to join society, they will possess at least a rudimentary critical faculty.  I have a dream that one day people will value education&#8230;</p>
<p>I also recently found out that a creationist cousin of mine just got a job teaching science.  Go figure.</p>
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		<title>By: TheWalruss</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/comment-page-1/#comment-140150</link>
		<dc:creator>TheWalruss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:09:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140150</guid>
		<description>What a wacky family!

Imagine what the sons are like - maybe they&#039;re wizards?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a wacky family!</p>
<p>Imagine what the sons are like &#8211; maybe they&#8217;re wizards?</p>
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		<title>By: Law Mom</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/comment-page-1/#comment-140132</link>
		<dc:creator>Law Mom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 06:10:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140132</guid>
		<description>Disclaimer--I&#039;m not a criminal lawyer, nor do I practice in California (although I did go to law school there).  I practice primarily in real estate litigation, which often involves civil fraud.  There are some similarities.  A quick search leads us to California Penal Code sec. 484.  Subsection (a) provides, in part:

Every person who shall feloniously steal, take, carry,
lead, or drive away the personal property of another, or who shall
fraudulently appropriate property which has been entrusted to him or
her, or who shall knowingly and designedly, by any false or
fraudulent representation or pretense, defraud any other person of
money, labor or real or personal property, or who causes or procures
others to report falsely of his or her wealth or mercantile character
and by thus imposing upon any person, obtains credit and thereby
fraudulently gets or obtains possession of money, or property or
obtains the labor or service of another, is guilty of theft.

In other words, you can&#039;t take someone&#039;s stuff by lying to them.  I assume the elements are similar to civil fraud, in which you have to prove that the defendant made a misrepresentation of material fact with the intent to induce reliance, and that the victim did in fact rely on the representation.  There is a whole body of law on what is considered &quot;material.&quot;  Advertising, for example, can be fraudulent or just harmless &quot;puffery.&quot;

I can see a so-called psychic successfully arguing that she did not knowingly commit fraud because she sincerely believed what she said.  Again, I am not a criminal lawyer, so I could be wrong.  I use this defense in my civil cases to avoid punitive damages and other statutory penalties, but then I still have negligent misrepresentation to deal with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Disclaimer&#8211;I&#8217;m not a criminal lawyer, nor do I practice in California (although I did go to law school there).  I practice primarily in real estate litigation, which often involves civil fraud.  There are some similarities.  A quick search leads us to California Penal Code sec. 484.  Subsection (a) provides, in part:</p>
<p>Every person who shall feloniously steal, take, carry,<br />
lead, or drive away the personal property of another, or who shall<br />
fraudulently appropriate property which has been entrusted to him or<br />
her, or who shall knowingly and designedly, by any false or<br />
fraudulent representation or pretense, defraud any other person of<br />
money, labor or real or personal property, or who causes or procures<br />
others to report falsely of his or her wealth or mercantile character<br />
and by thus imposing upon any person, obtains credit and thereby<br />
fraudulently gets or obtains possession of money, or property or<br />
obtains the labor or service of another, is guilty of theft.</p>
<p>In other words, you can&#8217;t take someone&#8217;s stuff by lying to them.  I assume the elements are similar to civil fraud, in which you have to prove that the defendant made a misrepresentation of material fact with the intent to induce reliance, and that the victim did in fact rely on the representation.  There is a whole body of law on what is considered &#8220;material.&#8221;  Advertising, for example, can be fraudulent or just harmless &#8220;puffery.&#8221;</p>
<p>I can see a so-called psychic successfully arguing that she did not knowingly commit fraud because she sincerely believed what she said.  Again, I am not a criminal lawyer, so I could be wrong.  I use this defense in my civil cases to avoid punitive damages and other statutory penalties, but then I still have negligent misrepresentation to deal with.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/comment-page-1/#comment-140105</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 03:48:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140105</guid>
		<description>I see no problem with a slippery slope which slides to reality.  But I don&#039;t know that a) the case was won/lost on the basis that the woman didn&#039;t have her spirits cleansed and b) what the  &quot;theft by false pretense&quot; law actually states - without this knowledge I find it absurd to jump to any conclusion that this will set precedent and lead to such a slippery slope.  Moreover, any politician that noticed that such a precedent was leading to an &quot;unfavourable&quot; result, they would fight to change the law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see no problem with a slippery slope which slides to reality.  But I don&#8217;t know that a) the case was won/lost on the basis that the woman didn&#8217;t have her spirits cleansed and b) what the  &#8220;theft by false pretense&#8221; law actually states &#8211; without this knowledge I find it absurd to jump to any conclusion that this will set precedent and lead to such a slippery slope.  Moreover, any politician that noticed that such a precedent was leading to an &#8220;unfavourable&#8221; result, they would fight to change the law.</p>
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		<title>By: Bart Mitchell</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/comment-page-1/#comment-140089</link>
		<dc:creator>Bart Mitchell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 02:39:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140089</guid>
		<description>The &#039;slippery slope&#039;  is exactly what im interested in.  This case ended in a conviction.  It was based on the basic idea that the &#039;spirits&#039; were a fraud.  A clever prosecutor might be able to use this as a stepping stone to bigger fish.  Silvia next, then Popov like televangelists.   Played right, over the course of many years, this could end up as a Supreme Court case against the Pope. 

I don&#039;t see any slippery slope twards prosecuting honest people.  This kind of litigious action could only serve to put a chilling effect on the use of the supernatural as a business .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8216;slippery slope&#8217;  is exactly what im interested in.  This case ended in a conviction.  It was based on the basic idea that the &#8216;spirits&#8217; were a fraud.  A clever prosecutor might be able to use this as a stepping stone to bigger fish.  Silvia next, then Popov like televangelists.   Played right, over the course of many years, this could end up as a Supreme Court case against the Pope. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t see any slippery slope twards prosecuting honest people.  This kind of litigious action could only serve to put a chilling effect on the use of the supernatural as a business .</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Ansorge</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/comment-page-1/#comment-140085</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Ansorge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 02:33:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140085</guid>
		<description>Michael: 
Televangilists are using the placebo effect to implement their &quot;cures&quot;. What makes them frauds is that they KNOW that&#039;s what they&#039;re really doing however, the placebo effect only works if the recipient BELIEVES in the (religiously mandated) &quot;cure&quot; so I guess they&#039;re caught between a rock and,,,since they can&#039;t admit that&#039;s what they&#039;re doing &#039;cause it would eliminate the &quot;cure&quot;.

GAry 7</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael:<br />
Televangilists are using the placebo effect to implement their &#8220;cures&#8221;. What makes them frauds is that they KNOW that&#8217;s what they&#8217;re really doing however, the placebo effect only works if the recipient BELIEVES in the (religiously mandated) &#8220;cure&#8221; so I guess they&#8217;re caught between a rock and,,,since they can&#8217;t admit that&#8217;s what they&#8217;re doing &#8217;cause it would eliminate the &#8220;cure&#8221;.</p>
<p>GAry 7</p>
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		<title>By: Michael L</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/comment-page-1/#comment-140082</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 02:12:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140082</guid>
		<description>Phil, I would love it if you would also take on TV Evangelists that use the same tactics as these so-called &quot;Psychics&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil, I would love it if you would also take on TV Evangelists that use the same tactics as these so-called &#8220;Psychics&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Ansorge</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/comment-page-1/#comment-140070</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Ansorge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 01:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140070</guid>
		<description>What I wonder is how they(psychics) even find these money bearing twits(I guess that must be some kind of fruit tree).

Too bad the &quot;victim&quot; wasn&#039;t able to understand psychic power is BS. I guess it just goes to show: you don&#039;t have to be smart to be rich,,,

GAry 7</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I wonder is how they(psychics) even find these money bearing twits(I guess that must be some kind of fruit tree).</p>
<p>Too bad the &#8220;victim&#8221; wasn&#8217;t able to understand psychic power is BS. I guess it just goes to show: you don&#8217;t have to be smart to be rich,,,</p>
<p>GAry 7</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Sykes</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/comment-page-1/#comment-140049</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Sykes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 00:02:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140049</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s amazing to me is that the woman who was bilked actually put two and two together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s amazing to me is that the woman who was bilked actually put two and two together.</p>
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		<title>By: Fritriac</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/comment-page-1/#comment-140046</link>
		<dc:creator>Fritriac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 23:56:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140046</guid>
		<description>Bonus: The mugshot is Fark-worthy :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bonus: The mugshot is Fark-worthy <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Adrian Lopez</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/comment-page-1/#comment-140043</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian Lopez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 23:38:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140043</guid>
		<description>PS - I wonder whether the money she&#039;s been ordered to pay will ultimately come from new victims.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PS &#8211; I wonder whether the money she&#8217;s been ordered to pay will ultimately come from new victims.</p>
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		<title>By: Adrian Lopez</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/comment-page-1/#comment-140042</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrian Lopez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 23:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140042</guid>
		<description>What a shame it&#039;s only 60 days. At least she was also ordered to pay full restitution, though I think people like her should be forced to pay interest on top of whatever amount they take from their marks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a shame it&#8217;s only 60 days. At least she was also ordered to pay full restitution, though I think people like her should be forced to pay interest on top of whatever amount they take from their marks.</p>
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		<title>By: Frac</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/comment-page-1/#comment-140036</link>
		<dc:creator>Frac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 22:59:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140036</guid>
		<description>Pro: $108K + car, Con: Small chance of 2 months in jail

Great precedent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pro: $108K + car, Con: Small chance of 2 months in jail</p>
<p>Great precedent.</p>
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		<title>By: TurboFool</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/comment-page-1/#comment-140031</link>
		<dc:creator>TurboFool</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 22:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140031</guid>
		<description>The family that bilks together gets incarcerated together?

What a family of charlatans. Fantastic that they got caught. Maybe this is a turning point for truth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The family that bilks together gets incarcerated together?</p>
<p>What a family of charlatans. Fantastic that they got caught. Maybe this is a turning point for truth.</p>
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		<title>By: tdhowe</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/comment-page-1/#comment-140029</link>
		<dc:creator>tdhowe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 22:38:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140029</guid>
		<description>PsyberDave,  the difference is that most priests and preachers make no promises in return for the money.  Nor is there a consequence for not giving.  There are those who preach the &quot;prosperity gospel&quot; but they represent a very, very small portion of christians and are not by any means mainstream (although they are very vocal and visible).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PsyberDave,  the difference is that most priests and preachers make no promises in return for the money.  Nor is there a consequence for not giving.  There are those who preach the &#8220;prosperity gospel&#8221; but they represent a very, very small portion of christians and are not by any means mainstream (although they are very vocal and visible).</p>
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		<title>By: Cheyenne</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/comment-page-1/#comment-140026</link>
		<dc:creator>Cheyenne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 22:31:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140026</guid>
		<description>Damon- You&#039;re right, that is true. It wouldn&#039;t have to just be &quot;Jesus&quot; though. Church of Scientology? How many have they bilked out of their life savings? 

I don&#039;t get where the line is. It&#039;s all snarky and bad, no doubt, but &quot;theft by false pretense&quot; here is something that exists in somebody&#039;s head (like religion). It&#039;s not like she said &quot;give me $100K and in 3 days I&#039;ll give you a car&quot; and then bolts from the arrangement.

How does the court know she didn&#039;t &quot;take the demons away&quot;? Obviously, she didn&#039;t (painful thought exercise that is). But then how would the court draw the line on anything else like this? Could I go to a psychic, be told what my winning lotto numbers are for $20, and then sue them when I don&#039;t win?

I don&#039;t know, this just seems a little slippery to me legal wise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damon- You&#8217;re right, that is true. It wouldn&#8217;t have to just be &#8220;Jesus&#8221; though. Church of Scientology? How many have they bilked out of their life savings? </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t get where the line is. It&#8217;s all snarky and bad, no doubt, but &#8220;theft by false pretense&#8221; here is something that exists in somebody&#8217;s head (like religion). It&#8217;s not like she said &#8220;give me $100K and in 3 days I&#8217;ll give you a car&#8221; and then bolts from the arrangement.</p>
<p>How does the court know she didn&#8217;t &#8220;take the demons away&#8221;? Obviously, she didn&#8217;t (painful thought exercise that is). But then how would the court draw the line on anything else like this? Could I go to a psychic, be told what my winning lotto numbers are for $20, and then sue them when I don&#8217;t win?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know, this just seems a little slippery to me legal wise.</p>
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		<title>By: Damon B.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/comment-page-1/#comment-140021</link>
		<dc:creator>Damon B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 22:14:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140021</guid>
		<description>The FARK headline was classic:

&#039;Psychic cons woman out of $100K, forgets to add &quot;Jesus&quot; as part of her act, goes to jail&#039;

It&#039;s sad because it&#039;s true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The FARK headline was classic:</p>
<p>&#8216;Psychic cons woman out of $100K, forgets to add &#8220;Jesus&#8221; as part of her act, goes to jail&#8217;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s sad because it&#8217;s true.</p>
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		<title>By: PsyberDave</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/comment-page-1/#comment-140020</link>
		<dc:creator>PsyberDave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Dec 2008 22:13:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2008/12/10/if-only-this-werent-news/#comment-140020</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know how this woman is different than the &quot;psychics&quot; you cited.  How are those &quot;psychics&quot; different from priests and preachers who pass a plate around?  This group is clearly protected by the first amendment.  A lawyer weighing in on this would be appreciated.

I suspect it might have something to do with the amount of money obtained per person.  Sylvia makes millions from many thousands of people rather than getting all her money from one or a few.

I am sad that the woman in the story only got 2 months in jail.  However, I am of the mind that punishment should stop the behavior.  If 2 months gets her to stop bilking people, then so be it.  If it doesn&#039;t, she should go back to jail for longer and longer periods of time until she doesn&#039;t do it any more.  Maybe it needs to be something other than jail.  The point is, I&#039;d like to get her to stop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know how this woman is different than the &#8220;psychics&#8221; you cited.  How are those &#8220;psychics&#8221; different from priests and preachers who pass a plate around?  This group is clearly protected by the first amendment.  A lawyer weighing in on this would be appreciated.</p>
<p>I suspect it might have something to do with the amount of money obtained per person.  Sylvia makes millions from many thousands of people rather than getting all her money from one or a few.</p>
<p>I am sad that the woman in the story only got 2 months in jail.  However, I am of the mind that punishment should stop the behavior.  If 2 months gets her to stop bilking people, then so be it.  If it doesn&#8217;t, she should go back to jail for longer and longer periods of time until she doesn&#8217;t do it any more.  Maybe it needs to be something other than jail.  The point is, I&#8217;d like to get her to stop.</p>
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