What’s dumber? Robbing a house, or getting caught because a ghost wouldn’t let you leave?
I’m guessing it’s that second part. Even dumber, when they found him he was suffering dehydration. Or maybe he was already on the brink of it when he robbed the house, which is why he thought it was haunted. Beats me.
Of course, we hear ghost stories all the time. As I (and lots of others, of course) have long been saying, there is no credible evidence of ghosts. None. Zip. Like with UFOs, if you want to convince me of this, I want real evidence. Not a blurry photo, or video of a spider crawling on a surveillance camera. Evidence.
Of course, it would also help if people like David Klinghoffer didn’t apologize for belief in the supernatural. His opinion piece in the L.A. Times has some good points, but is way too credulous of the possibility of the paranormal. He dismissed brain-related effects explaining the belief in paranormal as too much like "just-so stories", and being unfalsifiable. Mr Klinghoffer, if you read this: there have been tests that show this effect to occur. Magnetic effects to the temporal lobe can induce all sorts of paranormal-like feelings. While this is not a sufficient explanation, it certainly is far more than a just-so story.
Anyway, I know stories like the one about the goofball burglar will continue on forever. As a rational person, I know that we will never be an entirely rational species. My hope is that we can minimize our irrationality… especially when it comes to our voters, our politicians, our editors, our writers, and anyone else in positions of power or the ability to communicate.
Tip o’ the ectoplasmic residue to Massimo Pigliucci.
December 15th, 2008 at 12:01 pm
These stories persist because:
1.) They sell for some inexplicable reason.
2.) People (sheeple?) are under the misconception that science is too difficult.
3.) Somehow, science and reality have become “unglamorous”.
When I read works by Sagan (and even some Plait guy) I cannot help but feel that sense of wonder that I can only assume the “wooists” are looking for, and it just confuses me as to why they can’t also see/feel it…
We keep fighting the good fight I suppose.
December 15th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
I say robbing a house is dumber. If a ghost wouldn’t let you leave I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t.
December 15th, 2008 at 12:12 pm
Click on my name for the full story. The HuffPost only posted a summary of it.
December 15th, 2008 at 12:16 pm
@OIM
You’re assuming a few things to be fact, which have yet to be established:
1) That ghosts are real.
2) That ghosts can interact with the physical world.
3) That if they can interact with the physical world, they can do so with enough force to threaten/cause injury.
So, until the first point is shown to be true by some really good evidence (let alone all three), I’d say that getting caught because you think a ghost wouldn’t let you leave is dumber.
December 15th, 2008 at 12:19 pm
OT: Phil, is there going to be a Carl Sagan memorial blog-a-thon this year? The 12th anniversary of his death is coming up in a few days on December 20th. I’m not sure if you have participated in this event in years past. I checked out Joel Schlosberg’s blog:
http://joelschlosberg.blogspot.com
He is the guy who usually coordinates the event but I don’t see any posts for activities in 2008 so maybe they are not doing it anymore.
December 15th, 2008 at 12:20 pm
you’re right…no human being would stack books like this…
December 15th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
@Phil
FYI, something about that link to the Klinghoffer article keeps crashing my Internet Explorer (version 6). Not sure if it is just me, but I’ve tried opening the link a couple times, now.
December 15th, 2008 at 12:25 pm
A burglar broke into a house one night. He shined his flashlight around, looking for valuables, and when he picked up a CD player to place in his sack, a strange, disembodied voice echoed from the dark saying, “Jesus is watching you.”
He nearly jumped out of his skin, clicked his flashlight off and froze. When he heard nothing more after a bit, he shook his head, promised himself a vacation after the next big score, then clicked the flashlight on and began searching for more valuables.
Just as he pulled the stereo out so he could disconnect the wires, clear as a bell he heard, “Jesus is watching you.”
Freaked out, he shined his light around frantically, looking for the source of the voice. Finally, in the corner of the room, his flashlight beam came to rest on a parrot. “Did you say that?” he hissed at the parrot…
“Yep”, the parrot confessed, then squawked, “I’m just trying to warn you.”
The burglar relaxed, then enquired, “Warn me, huh? Who the hell are you?”
“Moses,” replied the bird.
“Moses?”, the burglar laughed, “What kind of people would name a bird Moses?”
“The same kind of people that would name a Rottweiler, Jesus.”
December 15th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
This is the exact plot to the ’80s Genesis song “Home By The Sea”. Are you sure nobody’s being punked?
Creeping up the blind side, shinning up the wall
Stealing thru the dark of night
Climbing thru a window, stepping to the floor
Checking to the left and the right
Picking up the pieces, putting them away
Something doesn’t feel quite right
Help me someone, let me out of here
Then out of the dark was suddenly heard
Welcome to the home by the sea
Coming out the woodwork, thru the open door
Pushing from above and below
Shadows but no substance, in the shape of men
Round and down and sideways they go
Adrift without direction, eyes that hold despair
Then as one they sigh and they moan
Help us someone, let us out of here
Living here so long undisturbed
Dreaming of the time we were free
So many years ago
Before the time when we first heard
Welcome to the home by the sea
Sit down sit down
Sit down sit down sit down
As we relive our lives in what we tell you
Images of sorrow, pictures of delight
Things that go to make up a life
Endless days of summer longer nights of gloom
Waiting for the morning light
Scenes of unimportance, photos in a frame
Things that go to make up a life
Help us someone, let us out of here
Cos living here so long undisturbed
Dreaming of the time we were free
So many years ago
Before the time when we first heard
Welcome to the home by the sea
Sit down sit down
Sit down sit down sit down sit down
As we relive out lives in what we tell you
Let us relive out lives in what we tell you
Sit down sit down sit down
Cos you wont get away
No with us you will stay
For the rest of your days – sit down
As we relive our lives in what we tell you
Let us relive our lives in what we tell you
December 15th, 2008 at 12:39 pm
I’d say the guy needed brains, since the house was also a grocery store. Only an idiot would starve and get dehydrated in, what I assume to be a well-stocked grocery store.
This ranks even higher on the stupidistan scale than the Welsh guy that called the police to report a UFO, that turned out to be the moon.
December 15th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
@Todd W.
I see what your problem is there… Internet Explorer
December 15th, 2008 at 12:47 pm
@Michael L
I know, I know. I have no choice for the browser, though.
December 15th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
OK so people that believe in ghosts are a bit whack, but we all know that Santa actually does exist
“The Science Behind Santa’s Magic” – World Wide Web .msnbc.msn.com/id/28238253/
Even Santa uses science!
December 15th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Todd W.:
It is you, Todd W…. Well, actually, it’s your computer. I have been using IE7 — the download is free; what are you waiting for, man? — since Nov. 2006, and I have no problem with that link.
Click on my name and the link will direct you to: How to reinstall or repair Internet Explorer in Windows XP.
December 15th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
@IVAN3MAN
Again, I have no choice in the matter of what browser is on this computer. Sadly.
December 15th, 2008 at 1:22 pm
@Cheyenne
I will counter your “theory” with this: World Wide Web .main.com/~anns/other/humor/physicsofsanta.html
December 15th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Well, he may not have gotten much of monetary value from the attempted robbery, but you can be pretty sure he’ll make a few bucks by selling the story to the tabloids. (Though by then it may be a female ghost holding him as her sex slave.
December 15th, 2008 at 1:28 pm
@ Todd W.,
Ah… so I presume, therefore, that you’re goofing off at work, then?
December 15th, 2008 at 1:30 pm
Well played Todd W. Well played.
My favorite was “The lead pair of reindeer will absorb 14.3 QUINTILLION joules of energy per SECOND, EACH! In short, hey will burst into flames almost instantaneously, exposing the reindeer behind them, and create a deafening sonic boom in their wake. The entire reindeer team will be vaporized within 4.26 thousanths of a second.”
December 15th, 2008 at 1:36 pm
Mentis Fugit, you beat me to it!
As we relive our lives in what we tell you
Let us relive our lives in what we tell you
That song is a big part of blogging for me.
December 15th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
IVAN3MAN, do you have something against people goofing off at work if they are reading BA?
It’s a mental reconstitution after having to deal with impenetrable bureaucracies. Yeah, that’s the ticket!
December 15th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
@IVAN3MAN
Who, me? Never. At least, not any more than you.
December 15th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
“The lead pair of reindeer will absorb 14.3 QUINTILLION joules of energy per SECOND, EACH!”
Obviously they forgot about Rudolph, whose genetically engineered and bionically enhanced nose glows due to the absorbtion of various forms of energy (kinetic or electromagnetic) and re-emits it as a pleasant red light. His nose would glow white normally, but that extra energy is used to manipulate Heim-Droscher space in order to essentially warp around the planet. Geez people let’s get with the program. And don’t even get me started on the elves
December 15th, 2008 at 2:05 pm
@Todd W.
No choice of browser..???
But, your computer wasn’t born that way! It made a choice to browse that way…
December 15th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
Larian LeQuella, I have nothing against people goofing off at work. In fact, according to Wikipedia (click on my name for the link), goofing off has its benefits: “Goofing off may be a form of creativity and experimentation, providing useful learning experiences and discoveries. It can also relive stress from working or studying too hard.”
December 15th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
@Cheyenne:
Well, you’re right, the lead reindeer will explode, but not for the reason you think:
*not suitable for small children and believers in flying reindeer*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Y0SzEwG2pE
December 15th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
Todd W., at the time of writing this, it’s 21:23 here in London, UK, so I’m surfing the Internet in my own free time.
December 15th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
@IVAN3MAN
I already said my story, and I’m stickin’ to it. It’s the truth, and if it isn’t, may a sky-being strike me down with lightning right nobzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzttt!
December 15th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
No don’t know anything about goofing off at work, not at all.
December 15th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
“My plan would have worked, too… if it wasn’t for those meddling ghosts!”
December 15th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Magnetic effects to the temporal lobe can induce all sorts of paranormal-like feelings.
Haven’t there been tests that show certain combinations of temperature, lighting and airflow can do similar things?
Goofing off may be a form of creativity and experimentation, providing useful learning experiences and discoveries. It can also relive stress from working or studying too hard.
It can also be a form of uselessly wasting time and energy. Which one do you think is most often true with humanity?
if you want to convince me of this, I want real evidence.
I generally agree, but what evidence could there be, really? I’ve had a few odd experiences in my life. I’d have nothing to give you offer than an anecdote. A picture or sound recording could be fake. What exactly do you have in mind as “evidence”?
December 15th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
Mentis Fugit beat me to it! It was the first thing I thought of.
J. D.
December 15th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Until we discover all there is to be discovered with science…there is justification in that .00001% of reasonable doubt
December 15th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
David Klinghoffer is also a fellow at the Discovery Institute, which explains his interest in giving credit to the paranormal.
December 15th, 2008 at 5:29 pm
Some more possibilities:
1. Sounds like one of those made up “news” stories.
2. They guy had one of those really bad migraines that last for a couple of days.
3. There was a bank next door and he hadn’t finished the tunnel before the householder got home.
Re goofing off on the intertoobs. Since I’ve been made redundant the last couple of months I’ve had less time to goof-off on the internet than when I had a job. Oh to be in full employment again so I can get in my full quota of BA comments in a timely fashion.
QD, made up evidence works too. Didn’t we go to war a few years ago on the basis of a bunch of made up evidence?
December 15th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
@Daniel:
“Until we discover all there is to be discovered with science…there is justification in that .00001% of reasonable doubt”
Um..I don’t think so. 1/10, 000, 000 of a doubt probably does not rise to the level of being ‘reasonable,’ and should not be taken as a license to believe in the preposterous. That’s just a new wrapping on the “you-can’t-prove-a-negative” argument. What that tiny bit of uncertainty does represent, IMHO, is the justification for being prepared to overturn long-held beliefs when presented with sufficient, contrary evidence.
As for our dehydrated supernatural kidnapping victim, I hope he got a thorough psychiatric exam when the cops took him to the hospital, because it sound like he hadn’t been taking his medication. If the psych exam is ‘normal,’–whatever that is–then I’m going to laugh myself silly at this numbskull. And swear that ghost onto the force.
December 15th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
@Jeff
When they discover everything about the universe…give me a call.
December 15th, 2008 at 6:31 pm
QD, made up evidence works too. Didn’t we go to war a few years ago on the basis of a bunch of made up evidence?
Er… I don’t think that was the point.
December 15th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
@Daniel,
You don’t walk around with an air tank do you? There is a small chance that the room you are in know will have all the gas molecules end up in the corner.
Ghosts are nothing more than wishful thinking, the power of suggestion and a run away imagination. I’ve been to some of the supposed most haunted places in the world (my wife likes the mystique surrounding the paranormal) and have felt and seen didly squat. Not even anyone in the group had any kind of experience. Do you think the ghosts know that there is a skeptic present and so do not show up?
December 15th, 2008 at 6:33 pm
know ->now, arhhhh
December 15th, 2008 at 6:47 pm
QD, yeah I know it wasn’t the point but I.. um… now I read it back I don’t know what the hell point I was trying to make either… excuse me… was that the phone…
December 15th, 2008 at 7:19 pm
Why is it so hard for a skeptic to say, “maybe?” There is a difference between being “way too credulous” and having an open mind.
When I read things like the possibility that dark matter is made of particles that are more wimpy than WIMPs, (http://www.physorg.com/news148316483.html) and that this might open up the potential for a “shadow world,” I wonder at the vehemence with which so many “skeptics” attack those with whom they disagree. To assume that the physical nature of the cosmos to which we are privy even approximates “reality” is, at best, short-sighted.
December 15th, 2008 at 7:26 pm
brokensun, we’re talking ghosts for which there is no evidence. None, nothing, nada, zip, niente, bupkiss. No theory or rational hypothesis for their existence. No science… no anything.
December 15th, 2008 at 7:48 pm
There’s also a difference between having an open mind and having a mind so open that your brains fall out…
December 15th, 2008 at 9:08 pm
@brokensun
Does that mean that we need to entertain the possibility that the moon is made of green cheese as well?
Interesting article, did you read the bit that said that the shadow world doesn’t interact with ours.
like Shane said, there is not one scrap of scientific evidence that supports the paranormal, no hypothesis, no theory, nothing.
December 15th, 2008 at 11:40 pm
Todd W., It’s 2009 and you’re still stuck in microsoft’s parsing wasteland? Far better browsers are built by Mozilla Firefox (the latest version is awesome) and Opera. Try either one and it’s likely you won’t go back to Explorer. I also happily recommend, to more advanced users, the new Google browser “Chrome”. In fact, with IE7 down to just 25% of the market (and Firefox at nearly 50%) with the rush to the other browsers, MS may not build browsers in the future.
http://www.opera.com
http://www.mozilla.org/download.html
http://www.google.com/chrome
The description in this story of “I’ve fallen and something held me down” is a common seizure description. Since the story says nothing about his medical condition before or after, it;s a case of not hearing the whole story. He may have had a life-threatening seizure/stroke incident which also led to his dehydration.
December 15th, 2008 at 11:44 pm
I’ve been to some of the supposed most haunted places in the world (my wife likes the mystique surrounding the paranormal) and have felt and seen didly squat.
Well, your hostile attitude chased them away.
December 15th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
Add: There are ways to get around browser choice problems
(We feel your pain.)
December 16th, 2008 at 3:09 am
re: “if you want to convince me”
Why should anyone care what you were convinced of?
December 16th, 2008 at 3:32 am
Yeah, I’m also thinking stroke here. Poor burglar just became old while burglaring houses. Those who live by the crowbar, get hospitalized by the crowbar.
December 16th, 2008 at 3:39 am
Well, the guy in the article said that the ‘ghost’ pushed him to the ground every time he tried to leave the house. That sounds more like some kind of dementia or pshycological problem than foolishness.
December 16th, 2008 at 6:06 am
@kebsis
When I first read this, the first thing that popped to mind was Fight Club.
As much as we might make fun of the guy for his interpretation of why he couldn’t leave, I seriously hope the guy gets some medical attention and is not suffering from any severe diseases or disorders.
December 16th, 2008 at 6:14 am
“Of course, we hear ghost stories all the time. As I (and lots of others, of course) have long been saying, there is no credible evidence of ghosts. None. Zip. Like with UFOs, if you want to convince me of this, I want real evidence. Not a blurry photo, or video of a spider crawling on a surveillance camera. Evidence. ”
Of course, programs like ‘Ghost Hunters’ attempt to show otherwise.
While I’m not duped by their methods (and the SAPS site I found really gave me some insight), unfortunately, other members of my family have; namely, my parents and siblings.
That, and ‘A Haunting’, are popular ghost shows with them. And across the country, I imagine.
Oh, for a place of reason!
December 16th, 2008 at 7:51 am
Cool! Electromagnetic stimulus of the temporal lobe inducing feelings of the paranormal(pair of normal what?). What a great way to protect your home from whack jobs,,,non-invasive but highly effective. In old fantasy books, that would be a sorcerers defensive/protective spell.
Wonder if I could patent that???
GAry 7
December 16th, 2008 at 8:08 am
@Gary
Good protection, but you would need to shield pretty much all electronics and credit cards in the house from the magnetic field.
December 16th, 2008 at 8:46 am
Brokensun said:
This really is quite an important question.
I think the key thing is that every unknown phenomenon has to sit within the context of all known phenomena. We are now in the position of having a pretty good grasp of how the universe works.
Therefore, something that violates known physics / chemistry / biology must have some extraordinary evidence in its favour for a sceptic to be convinced. Ghosts most certainly violate known physics and biology (Incorporeal entities? Something “insubstantial” pushing this guy to the floor?). Therefore, before I will accept that they exist, there must be some hard, independently-verifiable evidence to support their existence.
I’m not sure what you are trying to say here.
Dark matter is a hypothesis that attempts to explain the behaviour of visible matter in distant galaxies and galaxy clusters. It has some independent evidence to support its existence, but its nature is still largely mysterious.
However, to make any progress in understanding the universe, we must assume that what we are able to observe and measure does indeed bear some relation to reality. Therefore, until dark matter hypotheses are disproven, or until some better hypothesis is thought up, we assume that dark matter is real.
Progress could not happen if we did not make the assumption that what we observe is real. However, we do know that humans are fallible in many different ways, so any observation must be reproducible and independently verifiable for science to consider it as a real observation.
December 16th, 2008 at 10:38 am
I don’t know if you guys know about this, but carbon monoxide poisoning can also induce various halucinations that many have interpretted as hauntings. Look it up on the wikipedia for an interesting and documented story.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_monoxide_poisoning#Carbon_monoxide_poisoning_and_.22haunted_houses.22
December 16th, 2008 at 9:07 pm
If we’re not even looking for evidence or testing it but immediately discounting it instead, we can’t really say there is no evidence. C’mon, where’s your sense of adventure…in the name of science, commit a felony and break into that house, and record what happens. Let’s go with a sample size of 10 to start. Y’all can compare notes for your journal article while awaiting trial…or while being held hostage. Bring lots of water, just in case.
)
Incidentally, this weekend I’m heading out to the hospital to visit a schizophrenic friend who was just committed for the fourth time. He’s convinced of all sorts of things that we can’t see or measure. Anyone want to come with me and tell him and the other patients they’re dumb and need some brains? Just because we’re sceptics doesn’t mean we need to be insensitive. Sure this burglar might be doorknob stupid (he is a common thief, after all), but most likely there is also some underlying psychiatric condition.
December 18th, 2008 at 3:26 am
Daniel J. Andrews said:
Taking this at face value, it looks like you have a point.
How can we dismiss something as unsupported when we have not looked into it?
Well, I can tell you how: because it violates known (and evidentially-supported) physics, chemistry or biology. The claim of some disembodied force is contrary to a great deal of what we already know. In effect, this guy is claiming to have discovered some entirely new physics.
Such a claim demands support from a substantial amount of evidence. Since he makes the claim without any supporting evidence, we can justifiably dismiss it as nonsense / a mistake / crackpottery.
This is an important point, and I think it is one that too often gets overlooked. If anyone asserts an explanation for something that goes contrary to waht we already know about the universe, we should demand that they support their assertion with evidence. Lots of it.
December 18th, 2008 at 11:12 am
Is there a list somewhere that tells me what I can’t believe in.
That sure would save a lot of time.
December 18th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
What you have written is a common tactic among debunkers like yourself. Why not just go out in the field with some good common people of a scientific mind like Jason and company from “Ghost Hunters”…were really are not stupid and of a skeptic scientific mindset. Spend some time in the field. Then come back and explain to us what really is happening and why we are misinformed. I challnage you to go out with the Ghost Hunters and teach us what is happening. Otherwise with all your scientific knowledge your are a back seat driver in my book and an really nothing more than amateur about this subject…like me. Einstein was not a scientist when he formulated his Special Theory of Relativity.
So good science can come from many sources and dosn’t have to be from the top.
Jospeh Capp
UFO Media Matters
Non-Commercial Blog
December 18th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Weird, anomalous events do happen.
When I was 16, a friend and I heard two sustained operatic notes being sung outside, as if from a trained soprano. When we looked from the second-story window to the street below, we saw a human-shaped figure composed of what appeared to be a dense mist, followed by 8-12 spheres roughly 2 feet in diameter — also composed of the same misty substance. All were hovering about a foot above the ground and moving slowly down the street.
By the time we got outside for a closer look, they were gone.
I can’t prove this happened. All I can say is that this is what my friend and I saw and heard some 40 years ago. Believe me, all it takes to change from a purely scientific-materialistic worldview is a single experience like this.
December 19th, 2008 at 11:35 am
@Joseph Capp,
“Ghost Hunters” is a science fiction show made to look like real science. It is sheer entertainment, and nothing more. Why don’t YOU go out and gather real evidence of ghosts, then come back here and show it to us?
You said,
Good science (following the scientific method) can be done by anyone. That’s the whole point. If you and I can repeat it, its science.
December 19th, 2008 at 11:45 am
@Joseph Capp
An interesting article was just posted over at the JREF web site at www (dot) randi.org/site/index.php/swift-blog/348-gnome-hunters.html
It makes some interesting observations about shows like “Ghost Hunters” and is a good read.
December 19th, 2008 at 11:46 am
@yogibard,
That sounds exactly like something I saw about 20 years ago. Misty shapes floating in the air, crossing a road at eye-level. I was with friends. Some wanted to panic and run away.
Instead we looked further, and found out that someone had put laundry detergent in a large fountain 2 streets over. The suds coming out of the fountain were a good 15-20 feet high, and large chunks would break off and slowly float away.
I’ve also heard some really strange sounds at night, which turned out to be owls or other birds. I once heard what I swear was a child mumbling loudly in the dark. Turned out to be 2 stray cats having an argument.
My point is, human senses can play great tricks on a person, and eyewitness testimony has been scientifically tested over and over again with the same conclusion: its unreliable.
December 19th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
What a sad thing to be trapped in the world of the known; to rely on science the way a religious fundamentalist relies on his Bible. If science as we know it can’t explain it or “prove” it, it must not exist. Why? Because…it’s…it’s… SCIENCE! Let us all bow down at the altar of science, the ultimate judge of reality and fantasy. Sad, really. A perfectly good discipline corrupted by the arrogant to fulfill a need to feel above the easily duped rabble. “Oh, look at me! I am so smart, so rational. I use SCIENCE!”
Man made machines can’t fly! It is “scientifically impossible for machines to fly!”
The electric lamp? ” A “completely idiotic idea.” “On behalf of science … Edison’s experiments are a … fraud upon the public.”
Now I’m going back to watch television. Oh no, that’s right, I forgot. It is “absolute rubbish that television waves could produce a picture.” Ah, I’ll read a book I guess, in the dark, by gaslight since there is no electric light, being scientifically impossible and all.
December 19th, 2008 at 5:44 pm
Bernie M. said,
Its called reality. Welcome aboard!
“Science” doesn’t “say” anything. It is a method used by people to understand the world around us very specific ways. No real scientist has ever said, “That’s impossible.” What they say is, “With the information we have, that’s not likely.”
Lightbulbs and televisions exist because scientists said, “Based on our observations, THIS could happen…” After years of experimentation and repetition, we have computers smaller than your hand.
Based on the information we have, ghosts are figments of your imagination, like leprechauns and the Tooth Fairy. Now, if you happen to have some evidence that proves otherwise, please let us know.
December 21st, 2008 at 8:50 pm
Greg in Austin said,
“Its called reality. Welcome aboard! ”
It’s called reality as you choose to see it through your prism of “science.”
You make my point for me. You look to science as the be all and end all to explain the world around us. Science is reality and if science can’t measure it, then it’s dismissed as delusions, hallucinations, etc. because you can’t see beyond the known.
“No real scientist has ever said, “That’s impossible.”
Ha! That’s rich. Those quotes in my post are from prominent scientists of the day.
“What they say is, “With the information we have, that’s not likely.”
“With the information we have…” If only that was the stance in practice. But still, “information we have” is what I call it “science as we know it.” As the old adage goes, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
There are plenty of things where “we” had information but so-called science refused to accept it because it didn’t fit in their paradigm. You and folks like yourself refuse to believe that there might be things beyond what we know. You guys talk a good game about being open but you’re the most closed minded.
“Lightbulbs and televisions exist because scientists said, “Based on our observations, THIS could happen…”
Man, who’s living in fantasy land now? Professor Henry Morton, President of Stevens Technical College, described in the NY Times at the time as “well known for his “researches in physics…” was the guy who called Edison a fraud.
“Based on the information we have, ghosts are figments of your imagination, like leprechauns and the Tooth Fairy. Now, if you happen to have some evidence that proves otherwise, please let us know.”
Classic skeptic tactic. Throw all kinds of stuff into the mix to discredit one thing. There is plenty of evidence that something exists out there. Recordings, visual evidence etc. But the pseudo skeptic will dismiss this evidence with claims of “oh, it could be…” But they will present no case for proof for their position. And the majority of the time they haven’t even seen the evidence but feel free to weigh in on the subject. Why look at the evidence when you already know it’s impossible.
If you experienced it you’d know that it’s real and not a Flight of fancy, hallucination etc. In any case, did you consider that ghosts, ufos etc are beyond science as we know it?
Bottom line is this: You and those like you worship at the altar of science and deny that which doesn’t fit into science as we know it. But don’t get me wrong. I love science. I just hate it when people use it to prop up their belief system. You prove what I was saying in my post
I’m no woo guy and I am quite down to earth, but I am not so close minded to deny that there are plenty of things our there that we can’t explain. There is enough “andecdotal” evidence…. maybe not to conclusively prove it, but enough for me to entertain the thought that such things can exist and probably do. I have much more faith in humans than the pseudo skeptics and know enough that what we know may not be they be all and end all of the universe.
December 21st, 2008 at 9:30 pm
Bernie M. said,
Yes, I certainly did consider that. I investigated it, and my conclusion is, based on all the physical evidence, ghosts are a figment of imagination. Again, if you have real testable, repeatable scientific evidence of ghosts, please present it. I would be greatly interested in seeing it. Same for UFOs=aliens.
Maybe that’s fine for you, but its poor science. You can entertain the thought that flying pink elephants will fly out of your butt, but that won’t make it true.
December 21st, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Bernie M. also said,
On this we can agree. Delusions and hallucinations are real, and easily tested and repeated. Drug induced hallucinations, for example, are well documented and occur in hospitals every day.
Science is what makes your clock tick, your car move, and the computer you are using work. Why are you bashing it?
December 21st, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Bernie M. said,
Please give examples of things out there that you think cannot be explained.
December 21st, 2008 at 10:22 pm
“Einstein was not a scientist when he formulated his Special Theory of Relativity.”
Wow. Just wow.
So, um, when did Einstein finally get his Official Scientist ID card? And did it come with the decoder ring, too?
I hear all those scientists get pretty uppity when anyone who isn’t a card-carrying member starts coming up with theories and performing experiments and all.