I wish I had thought of this: Cracked.com has a list of "7 (Stupid) People Who Sued the Scientific Method". It’s actually a pretty good list — suitably snarky, of course — and fun to read. Well, fun if you’re not actually involved with any of the suits. Their first choice is antiscience goofball Walter Wagner who sued CERN to stop the LHC because he thought it would create a black hole and destroy the Earth. Presumably that includes Hawaii, which is where he filed suit, even though CERN is a European facility, and the US involvement in building the LHC was pretty much done by the time he filed charges.
They also include the time in 1897 when Indiana politicians considered redefining π. That’s a stretch as far as suing science goes, but it’s noteworthy enough to include. There’s also homeopathy, astrology, "alternative" medicine… read and enjoy. And remember, it’s fun to read it on a web page, but this stuff is real. Their #2 pick involves friend of skepticism (and TAM 6 speaker) Ben Goldacre, who is a pretty funny guy, but I bet he wasn’t laughing through most of his encounter with a guy who said vitamins cure AIDS.
And let’s not forget Simon Singh, who’s being sued by chiropracters who claim they can cure asthma, but in reality they can’t cure anything. Worse, thy lure people away from getting real treatment. And, worst of all, sometimes they kill people, too. And that’s not funny at all.
December 26th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Thanks for that link. All of your reminders notwithstanding, that page was very funny.
December 26th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
I read that whole article out loud to my husband. That was really funny. I have to laugh at it, because otherwise I just might cry in fear of the human race.
December 26th, 2008 at 4:30 pm
I guess I could understand Pi if it applied to the logging industry or other undustries where you pay for something based on volume or surface area (all engineering and architecture aside) It is like in the days sof the cubit, you went to the tallest merchant to get the best deal. Of course setting a trade standard of 3.14 would be sufficent for most non technical purposes.
December 26th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
To anyone reading the Ben Goldacre entry and tearing their hair out with disbelief: Goldacre has a blog (http://www.badscience.net/) about similar (mostly medical) misrepresentations of science. He also has a book out (called Bad Science) that I highly recommend reading.
December 26th, 2008 at 5:07 pm
I saw this on Digg earlier today and had a feeling either Phil or PZ would pick up on it.
I especially like the ‘What a Victory Would Imply’ comments on each item. I want my Apple(TM) white painted iRock!
December 26th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
Haven’t heard anything from Walter Wagner (and his equally whacky sidekick/sycophant JTankers) in a while. For a while, you couldn’t go to a science site without reading JTanker’s obnoxious cut and paste.
I’m glad Wagner finally got the dubious recognition he deserved. He fits the definition of “crank” to a T.
December 26th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
Chiropracters should be banned altogether. People become chiropracters as soon as they find out the Astrology and Witch Doctor courses are full.
December 26th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Hey guys!
As a manual PT I get alot of business fixing chiropractic “patients”; usually by stabilizing what has been manipulated to the hilt. I also give patients the tools they need to keep out of trouble. A reputation is made by fixing large numbers of folks quickly rather than having patients on caseload for extended periods!
I can’t fix organic conditions with spinal alignment.
December 26th, 2008 at 6:22 pm
It’s probably apocryphal, but wasn’t there a story about someone in the U.S. government introducing a bill into Congress that would officially lower the boiling point of water? This was during the 1970s oil crisis, supposedly, and the intent was to make everyone boil water at a lower temperature to reduce the amount of energy used.
Most likely too good to be true.
December 26th, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Daniel,
Chiropractors can’t cure disease, but they can relieve back pain that conventional medicine can’t. Banning them would ruin a lot of lives, including my own.
Let’s avoid blanket statements, shall we?
December 26th, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Daffy, dead wrong, sorry. Anything that a Chiropractor does that actually works is nothing more than physical therapy; the rest is hogwash.
December 26th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
The “pi” bill isn’t described well in the very-funny article … it was about a method of squaring the circle – a bit of math quackery – that got extremely confused about pi’s value. The wikipedia article is quite good:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_pi_bill
December 26th, 2008 at 8:49 pm
@Richard Wolford
No.
I don’t know anything about most of the chiropractic techniques or the claims about curing asthma, flu, etc. That’s 19th century bull. All I know about is 21st century. The Activator Methods technique fixed my elbow and left shoulder blade problems. Ultrasound, heat, and pressure that the PT’s used couldn’t do it. The only other option would have been elective surgery by an orthopedic surgeon. Both problems were from severe falls on ice.
Like any mechanical system, your car included – front end alignment is perhaps the best example, parts get out of kilter, and it does become necessaty to put the parts back in place. PT’s sometimes can’t do it. One side of my elbow was clearly disjointed, the same as a frame strut on your car would be after a minor accident. I consulted the best PT’s and osteopaths in Buffalo, and they couldn’t help. The situation was the same with my shoulder blade. The Activator instrument and methodology actually did work better than I was hoping. Activator makes no claims about the chiro claims that do very seriously need to be smacked down hard as bloody hell.
I’m not affiliated in any way whatsoever with any part of the medical field (chiro especially), including health insurance. I have no investments or possible financial gain in commenting on this. My intent here is to pass along something I’ve learned the hard way through a lot of physical pain.
December 26th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
I, for one, vote for the value of pi be rounded off to the nearest hundreds.
December 26th, 2008 at 9:21 pm
I LOVE cracked. Of course, lots of their stuff should be taken with a grain of salt (a grain of salt the size of Canada, no less), but darn that website is FUNNY.
The Pi guy… Is awesome. Hey dudes! I can’t remember what Pi is. LET’S CHANGE REALITY!
December 26th, 2008 at 10:37 pm
For the record, the whole story behind the Indiana bill regarding pi was pretty complicated and does, to some extent, mitigate the stupidity of the state legislature. I wouldn’t trust myself to remember the details in full, but what the guy who proposed the bill really was asking was for basically recognition and, in return, the state of Indiana (think: schools) got to use his discoveries. The fact that he thought he could square the circle may not be as crazy as it would be now, since at the time Lindemann had only proven Pi to be transcendental around 20 years prior.
If you’re curious about the story (and it is somewhat interesting), I know Underwood Dudley has written about it in at least one of his books.
December 26th, 2008 at 10:43 pm
Hm… Well, geometry would be simpler if Pi were equal to 3. And no doubt teaching introductory biology would be much simpler if evolution were thrown out and “goddidit” were substituted. We could even simplify medicine by substituting the much simpler homeopathy.
Indeed, why have psychiatry when you can simply cast out demons ?
Oh, right… none of that stuff actually works!
December 26th, 2008 at 10:45 pm
Good story on tonight’s edition of “This American Life” about how an anti-vaxxer caused an outbreak of measles in San Diego.
Those folks (along with the Intelligent Designers) are my current favorite idiots.
Anyway, the woman whose child got measles gave it to 11 other kids plus a lot of other children were quarantined for three weeks and that in turn gave their parents fits trying to figure out how to manage work schedules, etc.
Of course, the anti-vaxxers reign undeterred by the facts of science or the wisdom of doctors. THEY know best. But when their kid gets the measles, they of course take them to a hospital, which had to bend over backwards to accommodate a child with such a virulent disease. I hope they charged those parents blind and I hope that their insurance company gave them a go-to-hell on their claim. If they are so smart and know more than anyone else, they should be willing to take care of that too.
Wonder what they will say when one of their precious snowflakes actually dies from a disease they refused to have them immunized for?
December 27th, 2008 at 1:06 am
Two cases that should be there but weren’t the Dover creationist one where Creatinonist tried to get a ruling on whether ID is science … (Surprise its not!
)
… & the Apollo 8 athiest one by that crazy athiest lady (yeah, sadly we[‘ve got ‘em too) who tried to sue the Apollo 8 astronauts – Jim Lovell, Borman & Anders for reading from the book of ‘Genesis’ claiming it violated church-state division ..
Okay I’d have rather they read something else but sheesh of all the non-issues to fight ..
Yeah I know that’s not strictly science but space exploration which is “rocket science” which is ..close enough in my book.
December 27th, 2008 at 4:21 am
Just because the general public might be impressed by a lot of arrogant intellectuals mouthing off about how smart they are does not change the FACT that CERN is an experiment and the outcome is not predictable.
Well it is as far as I am concerned (my name is supplied). Complete and utter destruction by fire from one of a vast array of unknowns not factored into the equations. Scientists are arrogant and people are stupid, too stupid to recognize a group of insane people are hell bent on destroying their world.
December 27th, 2008 at 4:32 am
I’ve just finished Ben Goldacre’s ‘Bad Science’ and it is both funny and terrifying depiction how science is badly misrepresented and distorted by the mass media and big pharma. Very highly recommended, along with ‘Bad Astronomy’ of course!
December 27th, 2008 at 6:07 am
Joker, except that Dover was ‘our side’ suing to defend against the IDiots and ID/Creationism in the science class .
December 27th, 2008 at 7:35 am
Ben Goldacre? The guy who supposedly represents “good” science?
WHAT a farce. He won a “good science journalism” award for an article defending the MMR vaccine from its critics – the award, a cash prize, was, I’ve read, later traced to originate from
SmithGlaxoKline, manufacturer of (surprise!!!) MMR vaccines.
Goldacre regularly spouts, in my opinion, misinformation, distortions, omitted facts and outright inuendo against Homeopathy. For a good refutation of some of his comments, search for the blog of “laughingmysocksoff”.
There is indeed plenty of bad science out there but using that fact to block valid research by real scientists in a field of medicine which MIGHT prove to threaten the profits of big pharma, that is just plain bad journalism.
Last time I looked, the experiments of M. Ennis demonstrating biological activity stimulated by high dilution solutions with no atoms left of the stimulant were still being verified by St. Laudy, and the “Amazing” Randi had become “ill” a while ago and was unavailable to continue negotiations with Dr. Vithoulkas, a world famous Homeopath who was left holding the bag after spending months setting up
a challenge experiment at an Athens hospital.
December 27th, 2008 at 8:40 am
And speaking of illogic and such, here’s a little exercise in skeptical thinking as applied to outrageous advertisin claims: when I clicked on this blog this morning, the ad at the top said “How to lose 25 pounds of belly fat in 3 weeks” with a link to a Google Ad (and, yes I know Phil has limited control over the ads — that’s not what I’m concerned about), and a second blurb that says “As seen on CBS News, Rachel Ray” and it includes the ABC logo.
So, a clearly thinking person of ANY weight should deconstruct this message as follows:
“Overweight? click on this ad to learn about stuff that will help you lose an outrageously high (and unhealthy) amount of wseight in a very short period of time. Why? It has been endorsed by major tv news organizations and a cook. ”
All this before you can even click on the ad that will you to a blog that is purportedly written by a woman who claims to have tested many diet products and can now act as an expert on them for you.
So, I looked over her pages and she’s shilling for a number of products and procedures that are questionable at best and downright dangerous at worst, and claims to have lost an average of 4.2 pounds a week using these things.
This is a pretty high rate of loss to achieve (unless you’re ill (or starving yourself)) — and most reputable diets do NOT guarantee that you’ll maintain that sort of loss over the long term, even coupled with exercise. So, right off the bat, I’m skeptical — mostly because fad weight loss diets and pill and procedure fads are sort of a sore point with me (having seen way too many people fail on them).
So, then I turn my attention to how these are noted to have been “seen on CBS, ABC, and Rachel Ray.” I don’t think I need to comment much on what passes for “in depth journalism” these days, but I can only imagine what the “news” coverage was on whatever it is this woman’s selling.
As for an endorsement on Rachel Ray: if you don’t watch her, her show is often responsible for some of the most fat-laden recipes I’ve ever seen. Some of her recipes are quite good, but others are just heart attack on a plate. I didn’t find where on her show or web page this woman’s blog and diet advise were mentioned… but if it’s there, it does seem to be a sort of two-headed hydra of a message: eat this fatty stuff and then do what this woman says to lose all the fat from the weight you’ll gain.
Yea, I know that’s a lot of thinking to do early in the morning, and as an overweight person myself, I can certainly understand the allure of such mixed-up messaging… all the more reason to deconstruct the messages one is “fed” about diet, weight loss, official “news” organizations, and people making a buck off of other people’s concerns.
December 27th, 2008 at 8:44 am
Oh goody. Now the nutters are suing a philosophical methodology. What’s next? Suing lions because they’re heartless, meat eating , killing machines??? Maybe Robert Heinlien had a point about societies working hard to make survival easy and when that happens, the nutters come out of the woods, screaming for their share,,,
Bah! Humbug!!!
Knurl:
I don’t know about your particular problem, but after slinging a rock across the lake, I had a rotator cup problem in my right shoulder that went on for 2.5 years. No amount of PT could heal it,,,then I started taking testosterone supplements and within less than a month the pain had diminished 90%. W/in another month it was completely healed. Note that a deficiency of systemic androgens
slows healing, especially of tendons and ligaments. Injuries to tendons, etc, typically take longer to heal than a broken bone, because their blood supply is much more limited.
How unfortunate that the nasty medical industry requires a prescription for these drugs,,,(snark),,,
It would be so much easier if we could just blow $ 25.00 for a magical healer to lay their mysterious hands upon us,,,,
,,,what? It doesn’t work? Oh well, never mind,,,
Gary 7
December 27th, 2008 at 9:01 am
ccpetersen:
HAving had to deal with the usual mediocre medical practitioner advising me to “loose weight”(w/out specifying what KIND of weight and never doing a floatation determination of actual body mass index)
I think I can fairly say they’re as confused as the rest of us about why some folks bodies stubbornly refuse to toe the line. Recent research seems to be showing a much higher survival correlation with physical conditioning that with total body fat levels,ie, we can be fat, just as long as we can also DO STUFF, like walk a few miles, or play 52 pick up with trucks,,,
Gary 7
December 27th, 2008 at 9:09 am
“or play 52 pick up with trucks”
I’m just going to assume that expression means something different in your neighborhood than it means in mine….
December 27th, 2008 at 9:46 am
[...] an opposition debate. In short an unfair and improper bias exists in the debate. First of the top seven criticisms of the year by the scientific community is the legal challenge by Wagner and Sancho against CERN. In quantum [...]
December 27th, 2008 at 10:15 am
Suing somebody there is gravity makes no difference when you fall down.
December 27th, 2008 at 11:35 am
excellent list, especially the “what a victory would imply” part. I’m starting to think Lawyers really are going to be the end of modern civilization.
oh and @ James Panozzi:
“outright innuendo”? do you even know what those two words mean, or do you just like oxymorons?
December 27th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
Gary,
I’m not going to get into the whole “what doctors do and don’t know” about dieting thing here; that wasn’t where I was going with that discussion — and I agree that fitness is a moving target for a definition these days. I was more into the whole “think before you believe the outrageous claims made by people who want to sell you diet stuff” thing.
Part of being a rational and skeptical thinker also means that you get to be rational and skeptical about things that cost you money…
December 27th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
You should have called this post, “7 examples of awesome snark against anti-science idiots”
December 27th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
kuhnigget: Ah yes, the old Fruedian Slip,,,I meant 52 CARD pickup with trucks,,,in order to do what you implied, I would need a Grayhound bus,,,
ccpetersen: The only “magic” cure for excess weight I know of is,,,starvation,,,works like a champ,,,until the famine ends,,,
Until we develop the knowledge and techniques to precisly modulate hormonal and neurological interactions, I guess we’re stuck with doing things the old fashioned way, you know, the way evolution impelled us,,,by exercising.
Dad gummed obnoxious evolution,,,it obviously never heard of happy couch potatoes.
Gary 7
December 27th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
[...] 7 (Stupid) People Who Sued the Scientific Method — Hat tip to Bad Astronomy Blog [...]
December 27th, 2008 at 11:34 pm
Gary, I hear ya… then again, i started a diet and exercise regimen about a month and a half ago and have stuck to it pretty doggedly and now I can’t imagine NOT doing my 1-2 miles a day on the track and eating low-fat food… so, it can be gotten used to. And, I’m not really starving myself… just eating more healthily…
I do know that there’s NO magic bullet for weight loss, just as there is no royal road to geometry…
December 27th, 2008 at 11:54 pm
[...] suing about polar bears being endangered. I’m not going to reveal the number 1. And PhilPlait adds 1 more, the current Simon Singh [...]
December 28th, 2008 at 5:41 am
Hmm … Maybe there’s something to Shakespeares line saying :
“Kill all the lawyers!”
A funny list of weird and sometimes plain dumb cases – mostly anyway.
OTOH I can’t help wishing that legal action had prevented, say the A-Bomb ever coming into existence … to name one example.
Seems sometimes science’s job is to come up with more and more horrible ways of killing more people ..
(Eg. depleted uranmium shells, landmines, aerial bombardment, specialised stronger-sharper swords, seige towers, napalm, H-Bombs, neutron bombs, trebuchets, grenades, ad nauseam ..)
While the law & politics is there to protect us from these scientific inventions.
(Eg. SALT treaty, anti-landmine treaty, United Nations -hasn’t that worked well – not!, anti-nuclear weapons treaty,anti-biological & chemical weapons treaty, ad nauseam ..)
Moreover, if something threatens to destroy the *entire* planet like say hypothetically the LHC or maybe one of its successor atom-smashers (Yeah I know we keep hearing that it won’t & yes, odds are 99.999 % likely that it won’t too – but some folks still fear it will ..) then why should legal action to prevent it be restricted to only one nation?
If some mad experiment thingy (not specifically saying the LHC just in general) hypothetically threatens to kill everyone on Earth .. Then I reckon anyone, anywhere – in fact *every*body , *everywhere*, ought tobe able to take whatever action is needed (pref. non-violent but) incl. legal action to stop the mad experiment.
Coz Planet Earth is kinda in *all* our jurisdictions!
Yes, science is fantastic and, yes, we all benefit from it – but I would also have to say it is a double-edged sword witha downside too and needs careful handling as well.
So while these cases are dumb examples of suing science & worth laughing at – legal action against certain types of science is perhaps justifiable under some circumstances.
December 28th, 2008 at 5:46 am
@Gary Ansorge
“ccpetersen : The only “magic” cure for excess weight I know of is,,,starvation,,,works like a champ,,,until the famine ends,,,”
Amputation? The more weight you want to lose the more body parts you lop off? Kinda drastic cure though!
December 28th, 2008 at 6:53 am
Luke 11:45 Then answered one of the lawyers, and said unto him, Master, thus saying thou reproachest us also.
Luke 11:46 And he said, Woe unto you also, ye lawyers! for ye lade men with burdens grievous to be borne, and ye yourselves touch not the burdens with one of your fingers.
Luke 11:47 Woe unto you! for ye build the sepulchres of the prophets, and your fathers killed them.
December 28th, 2008 at 8:28 am
Groucho Marx Bros. At the Circus 40:15: I have an agreement with the houseflies. The flies don’t practice law and I don’ t walk on the ceiling.
December 29th, 2008 at 8:46 am
@Knurl
At least one scientist says that the “Activator Method” is bunk.
http://www.chirobase.org/06DD/activator.html