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	<title>Comments on: Oklahoma: Doomed</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/07/oklahoma-doomed/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/07/oklahoma-doomed/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:36:06 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Darth Robo</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/07/oklahoma-doomed/comment-page-3/#comment-149004</link>
		<dc:creator>Darth Robo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 01:06:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/07/oklahoma-doomed/#comment-149004</guid>
		<description>Bryan, in my science class at school I recall a teacher addressing the possibility of (a) God, and he used it as an example of how to determine what is science and what isn&#039;t.  From there, it didn&#039;t take very long for the students to grasp the concepts of falsifiability and the scientific method.  So from that point of view, I have no objection to IDCreationism brought up in a science class.  However, the creationists who are pushing for ID &quot;arguments&quot; in public school science classes do so because they want said &quot;arguments&quot; to be presented as if they have some kind of validity.  

They don&#039;t.  Given this, one must be careful as to how IDCreationism is presented in a science class, especially now as propaganda/pressure is being presented at/by certain school boards, students, parents to get their (non-scientific) &quot;view&quot; taught under the guise (read:  outright LIE) of &quot;academic freedom&quot;.  

And um, just curious, but what does the fact that the elements of our bodies are shared with stars have to do with morality?  Why shouldn&#039;t we bother ourselves with the lives of others?  Why shouldn&#039;t we have families, friends and form communities?  Why shouldn&#039;t we care?  That seems to be a rather sociopathic attitude to take.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bryan, in my science class at school I recall a teacher addressing the possibility of (a) God, and he used it as an example of how to determine what is science and what isn&#8217;t.  From there, it didn&#8217;t take very long for the students to grasp the concepts of falsifiability and the scientific method.  So from that point of view, I have no objection to IDCreationism brought up in a science class.  However, the creationists who are pushing for ID &#8220;arguments&#8221; in public school science classes do so because they want said &#8220;arguments&#8221; to be presented as if they have some kind of validity.  </p>
<p>They don&#8217;t.  Given this, one must be careful as to how IDCreationism is presented in a science class, especially now as propaganda/pressure is being presented at/by certain school boards, students, parents to get their (non-scientific) &#8220;view&#8221; taught under the guise (read:  outright LIE) of &#8220;academic freedom&#8221;.  </p>
<p>And um, just curious, but what does the fact that the elements of our bodies are shared with stars have to do with morality?  Why shouldn&#8217;t we bother ourselves with the lives of others?  Why shouldn&#8217;t we have families, friends and form communities?  Why shouldn&#8217;t we care?  That seems to be a rather sociopathic attitude to take.</p>
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		<title>By: Bryan</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/07/oklahoma-doomed/comment-page-3/#comment-148681</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 19:01:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/07/oklahoma-doomed/#comment-148681</guid>
		<description>G_d forbid that students talk about something in class that they talk about anyway. Any scientist who is threatened by answering questions about ID or creationism probably isn&#039;t even qualified to teach evolution correctly in the first place. Students don&#039;t learn in a vacuum. Just because you present evolution only in a classroom doesn&#039;t mean they will accept it. Just because you present ID or creationism doesn&#039;t mean they will believe that either. Why not discuss both have students hone their arguments and discuss. That is real learning.  There is a difference between education and indoctrination.  Besides why do you people even care? If we are nothing but stardust, there is no morality and you shouldn&#039;t bother yourself with the lives of others. The only one that matters is YOU.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>G_d forbid that students talk about something in class that they talk about anyway. Any scientist who is threatened by answering questions about ID or creationism probably isn&#8217;t even qualified to teach evolution correctly in the first place. Students don&#8217;t learn in a vacuum. Just because you present evolution only in a classroom doesn&#8217;t mean they will accept it. Just because you present ID or creationism doesn&#8217;t mean they will believe that either. Why not discuss both have students hone their arguments and discuss. That is real learning.  There is a difference between education and indoctrination.  Besides why do you people even care? If we are nothing but stardust, there is no morality and you shouldn&#8217;t bother yourself with the lives of others. The only one that matters is YOU.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/07/oklahoma-doomed/comment-page-3/#comment-146897</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 01:26:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/07/oklahoma-doomed/#comment-146897</guid>
		<description>Yeah, Phil, when are you gonna write a book that debunks creationism using astronomy. (Hint: We are stardust.) 

Oh, and if you wanna read evolution from a Christian&#039;s point of view, might I suggest Kenneth Miller&#039;s &lt;i&gt;Only A Theory&lt;/i&gt;. He highlights the failings of the creationists arguments and the lack of science, or coherence, from Intelligent Design. Oh, but he tears Behe a new one.

Just my 2 prutahs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, Phil, when are you gonna write a book that debunks creationism using astronomy. (Hint: We are stardust.) </p>
<p>Oh, and if you wanna read evolution from a Christian&#8217;s point of view, might I suggest Kenneth Miller&#8217;s <i>Only A Theory</i>. He highlights the failings of the creationists arguments and the lack of science, or coherence, from Intelligent Design. Oh, but he tears Behe a new one.</p>
<p>Just my 2 prutahs.</p>
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		<title>By: Ross</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/07/oklahoma-doomed/comment-page-3/#comment-146865</link>
		<dc:creator>Ross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 23:20:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/07/oklahoma-doomed/#comment-146865</guid>
		<description>This discussion reminds me of a science teacher I had who would always say things like, &quot;this is why I love science- because it isn&#039;t controlled by dogma and doctrine.  If it makes a mistake, it throws that out and looks for the correct answer&quot;.  Even at the time I understood it as his subtle way of saying, &quot;forget all that creationist BS, this is reality.&quot; 

He was a good teacher.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This discussion reminds me of a science teacher I had who would always say things like, &#8220;this is why I love science- because it isn&#8217;t controlled by dogma and doctrine.  If it makes a mistake, it throws that out and looks for the correct answer&#8221;.  Even at the time I understood it as his subtle way of saying, &#8220;forget all that creationist BS, this is reality.&#8221; </p>
<p>He was a good teacher.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffersonian</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/07/oklahoma-doomed/comment-page-3/#comment-146786</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffersonian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 19:16:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/07/oklahoma-doomed/#comment-146786</guid>
		<description>@Harold McTestes :
&quot;3. You like weak ass 3.2% beer instead of what the rest of the nation is allowed to purchase.&quot;

The science behind this: 3.2 beer being much weaker is a myth. 3.2 beer is measured by &lt;i&gt;weight&lt;/i&gt;. Under non-3.2 law, alcohol is measured by &lt;i&gt;volume&lt;/i&gt;. 3.2 beer is anywhere from 4.0 to 5.5 when measured by volume and is some cases is &lt;i&gt;identical&lt;/i&gt; to the beer sold in other states. For example, by weight, Samuel Adams is 3.2-3.8. Part of the confusion comes from the myth that other states have &quot;6 point&quot; beer (they don&#039;t), and that this means 6% versus 3.2% (not how it works). 3.2 laws make a certain portion of the public happy because they don&#039;t understand the math/science; but, in drinking the product, there&#039;s virtually no difference. It&#039;s like the myth that Guiness is stronger in Ireland. (It&#039;s not, but the 3rd way of measuring, via specific gravity, is another topic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Harold McTestes :<br />
&#8220;3. You like weak ass 3.2% beer instead of what the rest of the nation is allowed to purchase.&#8221;</p>
<p>The science behind this: 3.2 beer being much weaker is a myth. 3.2 beer is measured by <i>weight</i>. Under non-3.2 law, alcohol is measured by <i>volume</i>. 3.2 beer is anywhere from 4.0 to 5.5 when measured by volume and is some cases is <i>identical</i> to the beer sold in other states. For example, by weight, Samuel Adams is 3.2-3.8. Part of the confusion comes from the myth that other states have &#8220;6 point&#8221; beer (they don&#8217;t), and that this means 6% versus 3.2% (not how it works). 3.2 laws make a certain portion of the public happy because they don&#8217;t understand the math/science; but, in drinking the product, there&#8217;s virtually no difference. It&#8217;s like the myth that Guiness is stronger in Ireland. (It&#8217;s not, but the 3rd way of measuring, via specific gravity, is another topic.</p>
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		<title>By: DouglasG</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/07/oklahoma-doomed/comment-page-3/#comment-146735</link>
		<dc:creator>DouglasG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 16:23:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/07/oklahoma-doomed/#comment-146735</guid>
		<description>Oops... here is the photo.
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=179490&amp;l=9ace3&amp;id=1467686575</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops&#8230; here is the photo.<br />
<a href="http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=179490&#038;l=9ace3&#038;id=1467686575" rel="nofollow">http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=179490&#038;l=9ace3&#038;id=1467686575</a></p>
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		<title>By: DouglasG</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/07/oklahoma-doomed/comment-page-3/#comment-146734</link>
		<dc:creator>DouglasG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 16:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/07/oklahoma-doomed/#comment-146734</guid>
		<description>I know it has been a few days, but how about this?
&lt;IMG SRC=&quot;http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=179490&amp;l=9ace3&amp;id=1467686575&quot; ALT=&quot;Not Doomed&quot;&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know it has been a few days, but how about this?<br />
<img SRC="http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=179490&#038;l=9ace3&#038;id=1467686575" ALT="Not Doomed"/></p>
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