They don’t. Given this, one must be careful as to how IDCreationism is presented in a science class, especially now as propaganda/pressure is being presented at/by certain school boards, students, parents to get their (non-scientific) “view” taught under the guise (read: outright LIE) of “academic freedom”.

And um, just curious, but what does the fact that the elements of our bodies are shared with stars have to do with morality? Why shouldn’t we bother ourselves with the lives of others? Why shouldn’t we have families, friends and form communities? Why shouldn’t we care? That seems to be a rather sociopathic attitude to take.

Oh, and if you wanna read evolution from a Christian’s point of view, might I suggest Kenneth Miller’s Only A Theory. He highlights the failings of the creationists arguments and the lack of science, or coherence, from Intelligent Design. Oh, but he tears Behe a new one.

Just my 2 prutahs.

He was a good teacher.

The science behind this: 3.2 beer being much weaker is a myth. 3.2 beer is measured by weight. Under non-3.2 law, alcohol is measured by volume. 3.2 beer is anywhere from 4.0 to 5.5 when measured by volume and is some cases is identical to the beer sold in other states. For example, by weight, Samuel Adams is 3.2-3.8. Part of the confusion comes from the myth that other states have “6 point” beer (they don’t), and that this means 6% versus 3.2% (not how it works). 3.2 laws make a certain portion of the public happy because they don’t understand the math/science; but, in drinking the product, there’s virtually no difference. It’s like the myth that Guiness is stronger in Ireland. (It’s not, but the 3rd way of measuring, via specific gravity, is another topic.

Try to accept people how they are. Teach them what you know. But don’t judge them harshly if they don’t get it.

In other words, don’t get upset when you fail to teach your science/religious points of view.

Just my 2 cents.

“But how do you demarcate when life began? One cell? An amoeba? A virus? A bacterium? When does Evolution take over from the other branch of study?”

I don’t know if the question of when life began is actually answerable to biology, any more than geophysicists can say when the first raindrop fell. We know life is here, and based on our observations, we can make predictions and take a guess as to HOW it started, but we cannot say with certain WHEN or WHERE. The Earth has changed a bit in 4 billion years.

But the modern theory of evolution is the best answer to what we can see and touch and measure and predict and test and repeat. If someone has better evidence that says otherwise, I’d be willing to listen. “Because God did it,” is not valid evidence.

December 27, 2008Kern’s Krew Collection of Peeping Toms By James Nimmo The Kern Krew is a sad collection of some very sick puppies who relish the pain of others in order to exorcise the demons that inhabit their own little bit of skull space.

They’ve never matured to an adult level of acceptance of sexual or religious privacy. Kern’s Krew is a collection of Peeping Toms, looking for what arouses them, be it sacred or secular.

(OKLAHOMA CITY) At the website of Oklahomans for Excellence in Science Education (OESE, http://www.oklascience.org ) there is a professional analysis of the latest resurrection of Rep. Sally Kern’s bill that would allow for the recitation of bible verses as “facts” and “evidence” in math and science classes in Oklahoma schools with the teachers forced to accept such balderdash as legitimate answers.

Though this bill was vetoed by Governor Henry last year, the subject of religious IN-tolerance is dear to Rep. Sally Kern as she worries it like a dog with its favorite bone.

According to the analysis, with other states that have passed these spawned bills the result has been expensive legal situations and confusion in the classrooms resulting in the lowering of educational standards.

Introduced by religiously repellent people like the Kern Krew these divisive bills turn public schools into Sunday schools five days a week and restate already existing laws and court precedents. It would seem the purpose of the bills is to provide for the invention of another drum for the Kern Krew to beat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqXMRzkq37g

I think it points to where the IDists and creationist want the discussion to go. (I’ll give you a hing: no academic freedom for evolution.)

Sure, they sugarcoat it & hide their ultimate agenda behind smokescreens – but at the end of the day, they reject the entire science behind what we now understand as the underpinnings of evolutionary theory (now much different from what Darwin orginially proposed).

In a perfect world, we certainly could have intelligent discussions about ID, but today, given the goals of its architects, there simply isn’t anything to discuss.

Truth will out, afterall.

Let’s hope! Peace on ya!

kuhnigget:

It’s so hard to disagree with you because we are on the same team and believe the same things. I just find, in my own life with people I disagree with (and there are a lot of them), that it is far more productive and interesting to listen and have them listen to you and you each can leave that conversation with whatever you would like to think, and even better you each might have learned something.

But you are talking to an IB student and critical thinking was a requirement of my education and fortunately that will forever be a part of who I am.

I think I’ve made the points I wanted to so I won’t be responding any further. I just think that the evidence is clear and I’m not afraid of the discussion. Truth will out, afterall.

I was taught (basic) evolutionary biology in grade school, and so were my children. I have a BA in Anthropology, and my 11-year-old now knows more about the human evolutionary tree than I do (mind you, a lot has been discovered since I graduated).

Knowing the quality of teachers in some school districts, and that a disturbing proportion of them are creationists, I don’t trust them to discuss the matter productively.

Who teaches evolutionary biology in grade school?

Mr. Lytton, Summitview Elementary School, Yakima, Washington. And at the end of the lesson he appended, quote, “I personally think it’s a bunch of baloney.” Unquote.

Being respectful of others’ views is important. You don’t have to agree with them. I think that scientists and teachers can meet the challenge in a respectful manner and state why we know we are right and the basis for that view. However, it does take acknowledging that some people just won’t buy it and while that is unfortunate, it’s also okay.

I respectfully disagree on two counts:

1) Not all views are worthy of respect. People who want their religious mythology accepted as science and taught as such belong in that class. That is what these people want. They try to couch their religion is sciency sounding language, but as the Dover decision showed, that is a sham. They want religion, their religion, taught in science class.

2) Reality gets in the way. The people who wage these sorts of campaigns will not sit idly by while their God is denied by heathen science teachers. It doesn’t matter what your intentions are or how respectful you think you’re being. If you try and teach a class full of kids in the U.S. that the Bible is not the word of God, you will not be a teacher for long.

I hate to say it, but there are going to be a whole lot of people out there growing up with some severe misconceptions about science. I just hope the rest of the population can make up for them.

I agree with you. I think it is really unfortunate and that stance has certainly contributed to the world that we live in today.

The hardest part for me and the reason that I have participated so heavily in this conversation is that I think that science has taken similar offense to the creationists positions. Phil himself calls them “antiscience jokers”. I’m not saying he’s wrong, just that it’s not all that helpful for the dialogue.

I’m not trying to be Susie Peacemaker here, but I don’t necessarily see the evil of the ID/creationists. I just think they are incorrect. I don’t like the influence that they have over children they encounter, but the only way to fix that is to discuss it. IMHO

Actually I didn’t know that. But how do you demarcate when life began? One cell? An amoeba? A virus? A bacterium? When does Evolution take over from the other branch of study?

OK so that answer won’t work for Greg. Neither will this one – there is no way I’m going to go to the Discovery Institutes homepage to see whatever examples they are using today are (don’t they constantly change them as more are ruled out? If I was actually a teacher I would check on it). I remember they used to bring up things like Lobster eyes and there was something about fossils in 1 place being in the wrong strata. Last I heard Evolution can deal with most of these – but is it fair to say that they might be able to bring up a few examples that are worth at least talking about?

How life arose initially as just one small example?

Well, the easy answer to that question when creationists bring it up is, the Theory of Evolution deals with how life changes once it exists. It does not examine how life began; that’s a different branch of study.

I agree that a good number of science teachers would be able to approach the issue in a respectful manner, but the problem is that a good number of people who believe that the Bible is the inerrant word of God tend to take any questioning of those beliefs as a personal affront, no matter how respectful the teacher might be. Not everyone of faith will react this way, but there will be pockets of such responses.

When people get defensive about personal issues, they also have a tendency to read things into statements that aren’t even there. For example, if the teacher says simply that “The scientific evidence and the written accounts in the Bible don’t match up,” the die-hard believer may interpret that as “The Bible is wrong and, if you believe the Bible, you’re wrong too.” They may possibly even hear “idiot” or some other personal attack in there, as well.

Other examples I’m not that familiar with since I’m not The World’s Greatest Teacher just yet so I haven’t really bothered to look into it much.

Molly- My class taught evolutionary biology (well, fairly intro level really) in grade school. Sixth grade. I remember it well.

And a bit off the point but I agree with Leon Lederman that we teach science backwards (biology, chemistry, physics- it should go the other way).

I respectfully disagree. Who teaches evolutionary biology in grade school? I think we are talking about middle school and high school student who would be taught the contrast between differing theories with a focus on the scientific method and why factual evidence provides such a strong arugument.

I just don’t think that this “us against them” attitude is effective. I could only hope that the past eight years has taught us that.

Being respectful of others’ views is important. You don’t have to agree with them. I think that scientists and teachers can meet the challenge in a respectful manner and state why we know we are right and the basis for that view. However, it does take acknowledging that some people just won’t buy it and while that is unfortunate, it’s also okay.