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	<title>Comments on: Orac and Steve Novella&#8217;s vaccination wonderfulness</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/10/orac-and-steve-novellas-vaccination-wonderfulness/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 09 Nov 2009 13:24:58 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Todd W.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/10/orac-and-steve-novellas-vaccination-wonderfulness/comment-page-1/#comment-147927</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 04:24:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/10/orac-and-steve-novellas-vaccination-wonderfulness/#comment-147927</guid>
		<description>@Chris

Thanks for the bit about aluminum.  I mentioned it because I recalled some anti-vaxers claiming that it was to blame.  Just another move of the goalposts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Chris</p>
<p>Thanks for the bit about aluminum.  I mentioned it because I recalled some anti-vaxers claiming that it was to blame.  Just another move of the goalposts.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/10/orac-and-steve-novellas-vaccination-wonderfulness/comment-page-1/#comment-147920</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 03:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/10/orac-and-steve-novellas-vaccination-wonderfulness/#comment-147920</guid>
		<description>Bo, the MMR comes as a dry powder that is mixed with sterile water and must be used before eight hours.  There are also very crucial environments that must be maintained to keep the vaccine safe.

Thimerosal has been removed from all pediatric vaccines.  The way they did that was make single use vials, which increased the cost of the vaccine.  

There has NEVER been any antifreeze in any vaccine (just in case Bo finds that on a random website).  That is just someone not knowing the difference in chemical names, like mixing up the terms &quot;methanol&quot; and &quot;ethanol.&quot;

Rene said &quot;Orac insists vaccines are safe while at the same time promoting scares about minute trace amounts of mercury and methylmercury,&quot;

Linky please?  Because I don&#039;t think I have ever seen that.  I have seen that there have been discussions noting the difference between &quot;ethyl&quot; and &quot;methyl&quot;.  

Todd, the MMR has also never contained aluminum.  It is in some other vaccines as a salt to help increase the immune response (so less vaccine needs to be used).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bo, the MMR comes as a dry powder that is mixed with sterile water and must be used before eight hours.  There are also very crucial environments that must be maintained to keep the vaccine safe.</p>
<p>Thimerosal has been removed from all pediatric vaccines.  The way they did that was make single use vials, which increased the cost of the vaccine.  </p>
<p>There has NEVER been any antifreeze in any vaccine (just in case Bo finds that on a random website).  That is just someone not knowing the difference in chemical names, like mixing up the terms &#8220;methanol&#8221; and &#8220;ethanol.&#8221;</p>
<p>Rene said &#8220;Orac insists vaccines are safe while at the same time promoting scares about minute trace amounts of mercury and methylmercury,&#8221;</p>
<p>Linky please?  Because I don&#8217;t think I have ever seen that.  I have seen that there have been discussions noting the difference between &#8220;ethyl&#8221; and &#8220;methyl&#8221;.  </p>
<p>Todd, the MMR has also never contained aluminum.  It is in some other vaccines as a salt to help increase the immune response (so less vaccine needs to be used).</p>
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		<title>By: Todd W.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/10/orac-and-steve-novellas-vaccination-wonderfulness/comment-page-1/#comment-147815</link>
		<dc:creator>Todd W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 19:16:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/10/orac-and-steve-novellas-vaccination-wonderfulness/#comment-147815</guid>
		<description>@Bo

&lt;blockquote&gt;Find a vaccine preservative that is not as toxic.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

What preservative is currently being used that is proven to be toxic?  If you mean thimerosal, it hasn&#039;t been in any of the common vaccines administered in the U.S. (flu vaccine being one exception) since about 2001-2002.  And even then, it was removed due in large part to public opinion, rather than any scientific validity...a &quot;better safe than sorry&quot; approach.  Furthermore, thimerosal has been used for many, many decades with no major direct injury in the vast majority of the population.  There may be some few people that have an allergy to it, but that is rare and, given proper medical supervision, is very unlikely to cause any significant harm.

So, in the U.S., MMR (never had a preservative), DTaP, varicella, Polio, Smallpox, HepB, etc., either contain zero preservatives or trace amounts at most.  The &quot;preservatives are toxic&quot; angle, therefore, is an empty argument.

I think the new baby of the anti-vaccine movement, since thimerosal has been ruled out with no change in autism numbers, in addition to the MMR (which has also been shown to be false) and a &quot;too aggressive schedule&quot; argument, is aluminum, since some vaccines contain that metal.  The schedule thing is relatively moot, since parents can opt to adjust the schedule as they and their doctors feel fit.  The aluminum thing, like thimerosal or MMR, is likely to be disproved, as well.

Heck, I expect that even when a cause (or causes) of autism spectrum disorders is found, there will still be people saying that vaccines are these awful things that are poisoning our children causing all kinds of problems.

Now, don&#039;t get me wrong.  I&#039;m not saying vaccines are 100% safe, but they&#039;re pretty darn close.  There will be some people that have bad reactions, but even some of these can be prevented by proper medical training of the doctors and nurses, thorough family history records, and possibly screening.  At any rate, the overall risks of abandoning vaccines are far greater than a proper vaccination program.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Bo</p>
<blockquote><p>Find a vaccine preservative that is not as toxic.</p></blockquote>
<p>What preservative is currently being used that is proven to be toxic?  If you mean thimerosal, it hasn&#8217;t been in any of the common vaccines administered in the U.S. (flu vaccine being one exception) since about 2001-2002.  And even then, it was removed due in large part to public opinion, rather than any scientific validity&#8230;a &#8220;better safe than sorry&#8221; approach.  Furthermore, thimerosal has been used for many, many decades with no major direct injury in the vast majority of the population.  There may be some few people that have an allergy to it, but that is rare and, given proper medical supervision, is very unlikely to cause any significant harm.</p>
<p>So, in the U.S., MMR (never had a preservative), DTaP, varicella, Polio, Smallpox, HepB, etc., either contain zero preservatives or trace amounts at most.  The &#8220;preservatives are toxic&#8221; angle, therefore, is an empty argument.</p>
<p>I think the new baby of the anti-vaccine movement, since thimerosal has been ruled out with no change in autism numbers, in addition to the MMR (which has also been shown to be false) and a &#8220;too aggressive schedule&#8221; argument, is aluminum, since some vaccines contain that metal.  The schedule thing is relatively moot, since parents can opt to adjust the schedule as they and their doctors feel fit.  The aluminum thing, like thimerosal or MMR, is likely to be disproved, as well.</p>
<p>Heck, I expect that even when a cause (or causes) of autism spectrum disorders is found, there will still be people saying that vaccines are these awful things that are poisoning our children causing all kinds of problems.</p>
<p>Now, don&#8217;t get me wrong.  I&#8217;m not saying vaccines are 100% safe, but they&#8217;re pretty darn close.  There will be some people that have bad reactions, but even some of these can be prevented by proper medical training of the doctors and nurses, thorough family history records, and possibly screening.  At any rate, the overall risks of abandoning vaccines are far greater than a proper vaccination program.</p>
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		<title>By: Rene</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/10/orac-and-steve-novellas-vaccination-wonderfulness/comment-page-1/#comment-147781</link>
		<dc:creator>Rene</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 17:44:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/10/orac-and-steve-novellas-vaccination-wonderfulness/#comment-147781</guid>
		<description>The problem with trying to take the lot at scienceblogs credibly is that they fail to consistently apply scientific reasoning.  Mixed messages and the sprinkling of woo in their own articles make it hard for scientists to take them seriously.  Environmental scares are promoted with regularity, which perhaps is a reflection of the media company funding them or their political bent. Orac insists vaccines are safe while at the same time promoting scares about minute trace amounts of mercury and methylmercury, leaving parents no better off in knowing what to think.  But the biggest reason they probably turn off a lot of people is a really nasty, condescending attitude towards the public that&#039;s not something I would ever want in a doctor caring for me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The problem with trying to take the lot at scienceblogs credibly is that they fail to consistently apply scientific reasoning.  Mixed messages and the sprinkling of woo in their own articles make it hard for scientists to take them seriously.  Environmental scares are promoted with regularity, which perhaps is a reflection of the media company funding them or their political bent. Orac insists vaccines are safe while at the same time promoting scares about minute trace amounts of mercury and methylmercury, leaving parents no better off in knowing what to think.  But the biggest reason they probably turn off a lot of people is a really nasty, condescending attitude towards the public that&#8217;s not something I would ever want in a doctor caring for me.</p>
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		<title>By: Lyr</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/10/orac-and-steve-novellas-vaccination-wonderfulness/comment-page-1/#comment-147728</link>
		<dc:creator>Lyr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:18:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/10/orac-and-steve-novellas-vaccination-wonderfulness/#comment-147728</guid>
		<description>http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/13/health/13auti.html?partner=rss&amp;emc=rss

I was very happy to see this story.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/13/health/13auti.html?partner=rss&#038;emc=rss" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/13/health/13auti.html?partner=rss&#038;emc=rss</a></p>
<p>I was very happy to see this story.</p>
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		<title>By: Bo</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/10/orac-and-steve-novellas-vaccination-wonderfulness/comment-page-1/#comment-147725</link>
		<dc:creator>Bo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:10:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/10/orac-and-steve-novellas-vaccination-wonderfulness/#comment-147725</guid>
		<description>Is there not a solution here that will quiet everyone? Find a vaccine preservative that is not as toxic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there not a solution here that will quiet everyone? Find a vaccine preservative that is not as toxic.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/10/orac-and-steve-novellas-vaccination-wonderfulness/comment-page-1/#comment-147582</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 23:48:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/01/10/orac-and-steve-novellas-vaccination-wonderfulness/#comment-147582</guid>
		<description>I cannot type... I found a death in 2003.  aargh</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I cannot type&#8230; I found a death in 2003.  aargh</p>
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