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	<title>Comments on: Kablam! Satellite collision math, and a correction</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/12/kablam-satellite-collision-math-and-a-correction/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/12/kablam-satellite-collision-math-and-a-correction/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 23 Nov 2009 22:32:03 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/12/kablam-satellite-collision-math-and-a-correction/comment-page-2/#comment-164668</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Mar 2009 21:08:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/12/kablam-satellite-collision-math-and-a-correction/#comment-164668</guid>
		<description>What I want to know is about SOCRATES, the collision detection system 
on Kelso&#039;s website.  SOCRATES = Satellite Orbital Conjunction Reports Assessing Threatening Encounters in Space.  Right after the collision, I looked there for a model run using the actual orbital parameter
and didn&#039;t find anything.  

Has anyone run any of the several collision detection programs using the best orbital data and seen
if this could have been detected beforehand?  The links on Kelso&#039;s site pointed to STK, 
who made all the cool animations that we saw on the news the next few days, but there was
a conspicuous absence of any mention of their prediction software.
If it predicted it, that&#039;s news and if it didn&#039;t, thats news, too

http://www.celestrak.com/SOCRATES</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I want to know is about SOCRATES, the collision detection system<br />
on Kelso&#8217;s website.  SOCRATES = Satellite Orbital Conjunction Reports Assessing Threatening Encounters in Space.  Right after the collision, I looked there for a model run using the actual orbital parameter<br />
and didn&#8217;t find anything.  </p>
<p>Has anyone run any of the several collision detection programs using the best orbital data and seen<br />
if this could have been detected beforehand?  The links on Kelso&#8217;s site pointed to STK,<br />
who made all the cool animations that we saw on the news the next few days, but there was<br />
a conspicuous absence of any mention of their prediction software.<br />
If it predicted it, that&#8217;s news and if it didn&#8217;t, thats news, too</p>
<p><a href="http://www.celestrak.com/SOCRATES" rel="nofollow">http://www.celestrak.com/SOCRATES</a></p>
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		<title>By: tussock</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/12/kablam-satellite-collision-math-and-a-correction/comment-page-2/#comment-161931</link>
		<dc:creator>tussock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 14:04:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/12/kablam-satellite-collision-math-and-a-correction/#comment-161931</guid>
		<description>Units? Late comment?

8.3 MWh (megawatt-hours), or about how much electric power an average western house uses in a year.

But yes, SI please (or kilo, mega, giga, tera, or peta SI, as people know from their computer&#039;s Bytes), unless you&#039;re using c=1 and such to simplify relativistic calculations.

If your readers really don&#039;t know it, teach them. 30 GJ works just fine, and is no harder to understand than any other very large number we will never experience.

Tons of TNT equivalence is a bit misleading even for nukes, better IMO to reference that one tonne of TNT releases 4.2 GJ for comparison (1 short ton = 3.8 GJ), or that the Hiroshima nuke was around 120 PJ, or that the dinosaur killer might have been 400 ZJ as you need larger numbers.


Hmm. Two larger cars hitting at 100 degrees at fast highway speed would potentially release 1 MJ, so these satellites had thirty thousand times that impact energy, and were carrying nearly 100 times the momentum.

How much energy does it take to vaporise satellites? 1600 kg of aluminium takes 21.7 MJ to melt and boil from 0K, so if there&#039;s much sizable debris left we can say almost all of the energy (99.5%+) was not lost to the collision and they just clipped each other. That loss of energy would at most slow the resulting parts by 20 m/s at those speeds, or knock at most 0.5% off their average orbital height (1% at the south pole, down to 680 km altitude).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Units? Late comment?</p>
<p>8.3 MWh (megawatt-hours), or about how much electric power an average western house uses in a year.</p>
<p>But yes, SI please (or kilo, mega, giga, tera, or peta SI, as people know from their computer&#8217;s Bytes), unless you&#8217;re using c=1 and such to simplify relativistic calculations.</p>
<p>If your readers really don&#8217;t know it, teach them. 30 GJ works just fine, and is no harder to understand than any other very large number we will never experience.</p>
<p>Tons of TNT equivalence is a bit misleading even for nukes, better IMO to reference that one tonne of TNT releases 4.2 GJ for comparison (1 short ton = 3.8 GJ), or that the Hiroshima nuke was around 120 PJ, or that the dinosaur killer might have been 400 ZJ as you need larger numbers.</p>
<p>Hmm. Two larger cars hitting at 100 degrees at fast highway speed would potentially release 1 MJ, so these satellites had thirty thousand times that impact energy, and were carrying nearly 100 times the momentum.</p>
<p>How much energy does it take to vaporise satellites? 1600 kg of aluminium takes 21.7 MJ to melt and boil from 0K, so if there&#8217;s much sizable debris left we can say almost all of the energy (99.5%+) was not lost to the collision and they just clipped each other. That loss of energy would at most slow the resulting parts by 20 m/s at those speeds, or knock at most 0.5% off their average orbital height (1% at the south pole, down to 680 km altitude).</p>
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		<title>By: Fry</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/12/kablam-satellite-collision-math-and-a-correction/comment-page-2/#comment-158453</link>
		<dc:creator>Fry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 20:55:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/12/kablam-satellite-collision-math-and-a-correction/#comment-158453</guid>
		<description>So this explains those clanking sounds that occur right after Leela takes off!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So this explains those clanking sounds that occur right after Leela takes off!</p>
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		<title>By: Let&#8217;s move the world. &#171; Manujarch&#8217;s Weblog</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/12/kablam-satellite-collision-math-and-a-correction/comment-page-2/#comment-157714</link>
		<dc:creator>Let&#8217;s move the world. &#171; Manujarch&#8217;s Weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 05:19:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/12/kablam-satellite-collision-math-and-a-correction/#comment-157714</guid>
		<description>[...] Kablam! Satellite collision math, and a correction (blogs.discovermagazine.com)   Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Moving the world.Large Hadron Collider restart delayed till September [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Kablam! Satellite collision math, and a correction (blogs.discovermagazine.com)   Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Moving the world.Large Hadron Collider restart delayed till September [...]</p>
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		<title>By: dumb ass</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/12/kablam-satellite-collision-math-and-a-correction/comment-page-2/#comment-157707</link>
		<dc:creator>dumb ass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Feb 2009 04:02:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/12/kablam-satellite-collision-math-and-a-correction/#comment-157707</guid>
		<description>The energy of the collision is not that relevant.  The number of new satellites or space junk in orbit is however.  The new orbits of this space junk pose a serious potential for additional collisons. How long until we lose another satellite. The collision created aproximately 5% more space junk than previously existed.  Can anyone calculate the when the next collision will occur.  The time frame between future collisions should decrease at an exponential rate.  How long until there are no more working satellites and only space junk?

For &quot;sicence goddess&quot;  There is a possibility that one or more of the current satellites in orbit carry a Plutonium or Uranium power source.  Let see how that interacts with the atmosphere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The energy of the collision is not that relevant.  The number of new satellites or space junk in orbit is however.  The new orbits of this space junk pose a serious potential for additional collisons. How long until we lose another satellite. The collision created aproximately 5% more space junk than previously existed.  Can anyone calculate the when the next collision will occur.  The time frame between future collisions should decrease at an exponential rate.  How long until there are no more working satellites and only space junk?</p>
<p>For &#8220;sicence goddess&#8221;  There is a possibility that one or more of the current satellites in orbit carry a Plutonium or Uranium power source.  Let see how that interacts with the atmosphere.</p>
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		<title>By: Winchell Chung</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/12/kablam-satellite-collision-math-and-a-correction/comment-page-2/#comment-156740</link>
		<dc:creator>Winchell Chung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:50:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/12/kablam-satellite-collision-math-and-a-correction/#comment-156740</guid>
		<description>Gerwen, you can find even more perspective on the relative joules of various explosions with my painfully accumulated Boom Table:

http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3x.html#boom</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gerwen, you can find even more perspective on the relative joules of various explosions with my painfully accumulated Boom Table:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3x.html#boom" rel="nofollow">http://www.projectrho.com/rocket/rocket3x.html#boom</a></p>
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		<title>By: Emily</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/12/kablam-satellite-collision-math-and-a-correction/comment-page-2/#comment-156730</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/12/kablam-satellite-collision-math-and-a-correction/#comment-156730</guid>
		<description>What’s all this I keep hearing about wanting to use Jules for these complicated satellite collision calculations?  

Doesn’t everyone know that he was a science fiction author back in the late 19th century??? What would he know about orbital velocities?  He was mostly interested in balloons and submarines, and long walks under ground.

Wells had a much better handle on things flying through space, but even he probably could not have calculated the energy released by the satellite collision, even with the help of Jules.

But, on the other hand, I completely agree that urges should not be discussed in polite company.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What’s all this I keep hearing about wanting to use Jules for these complicated satellite collision calculations?  </p>
<p>Doesn’t everyone know that he was a science fiction author back in the late 19th century??? What would he know about orbital velocities?  He was mostly interested in balloons and submarines, and long walks under ground.</p>
<p>Wells had a much better handle on things flying through space, but even he probably could not have calculated the energy released by the satellite collision, even with the help of Jules.</p>
<p>But, on the other hand, I completely agree that urges should not be discussed in polite company.</p>
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