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	<title>Comments on: Jindal dooms Louisiana</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/14/jindal-dooms-louisiana/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/14/jindal-dooms-louisiana/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
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		<title>By: Republican party *still* shilling antiscience? &#124; Bad Astronomy &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/14/jindal-dooms-louisiana/comment-page-6/#comment-158412</link>
		<dc:creator>Republican party *still* shilling antiscience? &#124; Bad Astronomy &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 19:19:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/14/jindal-dooms-louisiana/#comment-158412</guid>
		<description>[...] to the President&#8217;s speech yesterday. Yes, that Bobby Jindal: amateur exorcist, creationist, doomer-of-Louisiana. He is obviously making a run for 2012, though how well advised that is might [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to the President&#8217;s speech yesterday. Yes, that Bobby Jindal: amateur exorcist, creationist, doomer-of-Louisiana. He is obviously making a run for 2012, though how well advised that is might [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Nigel Depledge</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/14/jindal-dooms-louisiana/comment-page-6/#comment-158290</link>
		<dc:creator>Nigel Depledge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 12:15:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/14/jindal-dooms-louisiana/#comment-158290</guid>
		<description>Yes, indeed, science is self-correcting.

This is something that none of the antiscience supporters seem to get.

Sometimes I wish the public were better educated, not just about the achievements of science, but about critical thought in general . . .

Then, the public would be less open to manipulation by charlatans such as Jenny McCarthy or Michael Behe . . .

Then, a more rational populace might not vote into power such idealogues as Jindal . . .

And good education would not be placed in such profound jeopardy.

Erm . . .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, indeed, science is self-correcting.</p>
<p>This is something that none of the antiscience supporters seem to get.</p>
<p>Sometimes I wish the public were better educated, not just about the achievements of science, but about critical thought in general . . .</p>
<p>Then, the public would be less open to manipulation by charlatans such as Jenny McCarthy or Michael Behe . . .</p>
<p>Then, a more rational populace might not vote into power such idealogues as Jindal . . .</p>
<p>And good education would not be placed in such profound jeopardy.</p>
<p>Erm . . .</p>
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		<title>By: Rogue Medic</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/14/jindal-dooms-louisiana/comment-page-6/#comment-158283</link>
		<dc:creator>Rogue Medic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 11:17:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/14/jindal-dooms-louisiana/#comment-158283</guid>
		<description>@Nigel Depledge,

There are still papers published in &quot;real&quot; science journals, that should not pass peer review. So science is not immune from this. 

On the other hand, the nice thing about real science is that other scientists will attempt to replicate research. if they run into problems, that attracts more skeptical attention to the original research - a slightly different response from what happened with Sokal. While there would be some &lt;i&gt;traditionalists&lt;/i&gt;, who would defend the peer reviewers who were duped, there would be plenty of scientists critical of their ability to be duped. If the data do not make sense, in the way that Sokal&#039;s vocabulary did not make sense, why would any competent peer review panel consent to publication?

&lt;i&gt;Real&lt;/i&gt; science is not perfect, but &lt;i&gt;real&lt;/i&gt; science is self-correcting. Mistakes can be made, but the result is progress. 

I would advocate for the same approach to anti-science groups, such as Creationists, but they already parody themselves so well. The anti-vaccinationists seem to have immunized themselves to parody of their scientific methods by playing sacrificial roulette with their children. To gamble with the life of one&#039;s own child like that puts these kooks far beyond the reach of any rational approach. It would take a Scientologist, or Kim Jong-il, or some similar out-of-mind person, to reach them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Nigel Depledge,</p>
<p>There are still papers published in &#8220;real&#8221; science journals, that should not pass peer review. So science is not immune from this. </p>
<p>On the other hand, the nice thing about real science is that other scientists will attempt to replicate research. if they run into problems, that attracts more skeptical attention to the original research &#8211; a slightly different response from what happened with Sokal. While there would be some <i>traditionalists</i>, who would defend the peer reviewers who were duped, there would be plenty of scientists critical of their ability to be duped. If the data do not make sense, in the way that Sokal&#8217;s vocabulary did not make sense, why would any competent peer review panel consent to publication?</p>
<p><i>Real</i> science is not perfect, but <i>real</i> science is self-correcting. Mistakes can be made, but the result is progress. </p>
<p>I would advocate for the same approach to anti-science groups, such as Creationists, but they already parody themselves so well. The anti-vaccinationists seem to have immunized themselves to parody of their scientific methods by playing sacrificial roulette with their children. To gamble with the life of one&#8217;s own child like that puts these kooks far beyond the reach of any rational approach. It would take a Scientologist, or Kim Jong-il, or some similar out-of-mind person, to reach them.</p>
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		<title>By: Nigel Depledge</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/14/jindal-dooms-louisiana/comment-page-6/#comment-158077</link>
		<dc:creator>Nigel Depledge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 12:29:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/14/jindal-dooms-louisiana/#comment-158077</guid>
		<description>@ Rogue Medic

Ah, yes, leaving Social Text with &lt;i&gt;masses&lt;/i&gt; of egg on face...
:-)

And leaving us &quot;real&quot; scientists with a warm fuzzy glow, safe in the knowledge that social &quot;science&quot; couldn&#039;t tell science from garbage. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Rogue Medic</p>
<p>Ah, yes, leaving Social Text with <i>masses</i> of egg on face&#8230;<br />
 <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>And leaving us &#8220;real&#8221; scientists with a warm fuzzy glow, safe in the knowledge that social &#8220;science&#8221; couldn&#8217;t tell science from garbage. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Rogue Medic</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/14/jindal-dooms-louisiana/comment-page-6/#comment-157928</link>
		<dc:creator>Rogue Medic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 18:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/14/jindal-dooms-louisiana/#comment-157928</guid>
		<description>@Nigel Depledge,

Yes. &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_Hoax&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Sokal affair&lt;/a&gt; (also Sokal&#039;s hoax) was a hoax by physicist Alan Sokal perpetrated on the editorial staff and readership of the postmodern cultural studies journal &lt;i&gt;Social Text&lt;/i&gt; (published by Duke University Press). In 1996, Sokal, a professor of physics at New York University, submitted a paper for publication in &lt;i&gt;Social Text&lt;/i&gt;, as an experiment to see if a journal in that field would, in Sokal&#039;s words: &quot;publish an article liberally salted with nonsense if (a) it sounded good and (b) it flattered the editors&#039; ideological preconceptions..&quot; 

A wonderful way of pointing out that the Emperor is not only naked, but ugly (or is that butt ugly?). :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Nigel Depledge,</p>
<p>Yes. &#8220;<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sokal_Hoax" rel="nofollow">The Sokal affair</a> (also Sokal&#8217;s hoax) was a hoax by physicist Alan Sokal perpetrated on the editorial staff and readership of the postmodern cultural studies journal <i>Social Text</i> (published by Duke University Press). In 1996, Sokal, a professor of physics at New York University, submitted a paper for publication in <i>Social Text</i>, as an experiment to see if a journal in that field would, in Sokal&#8217;s words: &#8220;publish an article liberally salted with nonsense if (a) it sounded good and (b) it flattered the editors&#8217; ideological preconceptions..&#8221; </p>
<p>A wonderful way of pointing out that the Emperor is not only naked, but ugly (or is that butt ugly?). <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Nigel Depledge</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/14/jindal-dooms-louisiana/comment-page-6/#comment-157895</link>
		<dc:creator>Nigel Depledge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 10:14:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/14/jindal-dooms-louisiana/#comment-157895</guid>
		<description>@Rogue Medic,

Wasn&#039;t Alan Sokal the person who got a paper published in a sociology journal by just stitching loads of complicated words into sentences that sounded like technical English but didn&#039;t actually mean anything?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Rogue Medic,</p>
<p>Wasn&#8217;t Alan Sokal the person who got a paper published in a sociology journal by just stitching loads of complicated words into sentences that sounded like technical English but didn&#8217;t actually mean anything?</p>
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		<title>By: Rogue Medic</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/14/jindal-dooms-louisiana/comment-page-6/#comment-157492</link>
		<dc:creator>Rogue Medic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 18:37:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/14/jindal-dooms-louisiana/#comment-157492</guid>
		<description>@Nigel Depledge,

&lt;i&gt;William Dembski in particular would have students believe that science is all about using complicated language that gives the impression of thoughts so deep as to be impenetrable to the layperson, which is wrong.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fashionable_Nonsense&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Fashionable Nonsense: Postmodern Intellectuals&#039; Abuse of Science&lt;/a&gt;,  by Alan Sokal and Jean Bricmont, addresses this particular issue. One of the distinctions &lt;i&gt;between&lt;/i&gt; science and sophistry is that the language of science is used to improve communication, not to confuse communication.

&lt;i&gt;Within the humanities, the response to the book was bitterly divided. Some were delighted, some enraged; reaction was polarized between impassioned supporters and equally impassioned opponents of Sokal.[2] Critics of Sokal and Bricmont charge that they lack understanding of the writing they were criticizing. &lt;b&gt;Responses from the scientific community were far more blunt and supportive.&lt;/b&gt;&lt;/i&gt; 

&lt;b&gt;Blunt and supportive.&lt;/b&gt;  :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Nigel Depledge,</p>
<p><i>William Dembski in particular would have students believe that science is all about using complicated language that gives the impression of thoughts so deep as to be impenetrable to the layperson, which is wrong.</i></p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fashionable_Nonsense" rel="nofollow">Fashionable Nonsense: Postmodern Intellectuals&#8217; Abuse of Science</a>,  by Alan Sokal and Jean Bricmont, addresses this particular issue. One of the distinctions <i>between</i> science and sophistry is that the language of science is used to improve communication, not to confuse communication.</p>
<p><i>Within the humanities, the response to the book was bitterly divided. Some were delighted, some enraged; reaction was polarized between impassioned supporters and equally impassioned opponents of Sokal.[2] Critics of Sokal and Bricmont charge that they lack understanding of the writing they were criticizing. <b>Responses from the scientific community were far more blunt and supportive.</b></i> </p>
<p><b>Blunt and supportive.</b>  <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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