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	<title>Comments on: Randi speaks&#8230; about Sagan</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/27/randi-speaks-about-sagan/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
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		<title>By: Rogue Medic</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/27/randi-speaks-about-sagan/comment-page-1/#comment-159325</link>
		<dc:creator>Rogue Medic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2009 01:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/27/randi-speaks-about-sagan/#comment-159325</guid>
		<description>Sorry, copied from &lt;i&gt;The Demon-Haunted World&lt;/i&gt;, by Carl Sagan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, copied from <i>The Demon-Haunted World</i>, by Carl Sagan.</p>
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		<title>By: Rogue Medic</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/27/randi-speaks-about-sagan/comment-page-1/#comment-159323</link>
		<dc:creator>Rogue Medic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2009 01:07:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/27/randi-speaks-about-sagan/#comment-159323</guid>
		<description>@Jeff and others commenting on the Iraq oil well fires,

Four paragraphs copied from &lt;The Demon-Haunted World&lt;/i&gt;. Pages 256-257. The most relevant part is the second half of the third paragraph, but the context is useful.

&lt;i&gt;Being human, scientists also sometimes engage in observational selection: they like to remember those cases where they&#039;ve been right and forget when they&#039;ve been wrong. But in many instances, what is &quot;wrong&quot; is partly right, or stimulates others to find out what&#039;s right. One of the most productive astrophysicists of our time has been Fred Hoyle, responsible for monumental contributions to our understanding of the evolution of stars, the synthesis of the chemical elements, cosmology, and much else. Sometimes he&#039;s succeeded by being right before anyone else even understood that there was something that needed explaining. Sometimes he&#039;s succeeded by being wrong--by being so provocative, by suggesting such outrageous alternatives that the observers and experimentalists feel obliged to check it out. The impassioned and concerted effort to &quot;prove Fred wrong&quot; has sometimes failed and sometimes succeeded. In almost every case, it has pushed forward the frontiers of knowledge. Even Hoyle at his most outrageous--for example, proposing that the influenza and HIV viruses are dropped down on Earth from comets, and that interstellar dust grains are bacteria--has led to significant advances in knowledge (although turning up nothing to support those particular notions).&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;i&gt;It might be useful for scientists now and again to list some of their mistakes. It might play an instructive role in illuminating and demythologizing the process of science and in enlightening younger scientists. Even Johannes Kepler, Isaac Newton, Charles Darwin, Gregor Mendel, and Albert Einstein made serious mistakes. But the scientific enterprise arranges things so that teamwork prevails: What one of us, even the most brilliant among us, misses, another of us, even someone much less celebrated and capable, may detect and rectify.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;i&gt;For myself, I&#039;ve tended in past books to recount some of the occasions when I&#039;ve been right. Let me mention a few of the cases where I&#039;ve been wrong: At a time when no spacecraft had been to Venus, I thought at first that the atmospheric pressure was several times that on Earth, rather than many tens of times. I thought the clouds of Venus were made mostly of water, when they turn out to be only 25 percent water. I thought there might be plate tectonics on Mars, when close-up spacecraft observations now show hardly a hint of plate tectonics. I thought the highish infrared temperatures of Titan might be due to a sizable greenhouse effect there; instead, it turns out, it is caused by a stratospheric temperature inversion. Just before Iraq torched the Kuwaiti oil wells in January 1991, I warned that so much smoke might get so high as to disrupt agriculture in much of South Asia; as events transpired, it &lt;b&gt;was&lt;/b&gt; pitch black at noon and the temperatures dropped 4 - 6 degrees C over the Persian Gulf, but not much smoke reached stratospheric altitudes and Asia was spared. I did not sufficiently stress the uncertainty of the calculations.&lt;/i&gt;

&lt;i&gt;Different scientists have different speculative styles, some being much more cautious than others. As long as new ideas are testable and scientists are not overly dogmatic, no harm is done; indeed considerable progress can be made. In the first four instances I&#039;ve just mentioned where I was wrong, I was trying to understand a distant world from a few clues in the absence of thorough spacecraft investigations. In the natural course of planetary exploration more data come in, and we find an army of old ideas plowed down by an armamentarium of new facts.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jeff and others commenting on the Iraq oil well fires,</p>
<p>Four paragraphs copied from
<the Demon-Haunted World</i>. Pages 256-257. The most relevant part is the second half of the third paragraph, but the context is useful.</p>
<p><i>Being human, scientists also sometimes engage in observational selection: they like to remember those cases where they&#8217;ve been right and forget when they&#8217;ve been wrong. But in many instances, what is &#8220;wrong&#8221; is partly right, or stimulates others to find out what&#8217;s right. One of the most productive astrophysicists of our time has been Fred Hoyle, responsible for monumental contributions to our understanding of the evolution of stars, the synthesis of the chemical elements, cosmology, and much else. Sometimes he&#8217;s succeeded by being right before anyone else even understood that there was something that needed explaining. Sometimes he&#8217;s succeeded by being wrong&#8211;by being so provocative, by suggesting such outrageous alternatives that the observers and experimentalists feel obliged to check it out. The impassioned and concerted effort to &#8220;prove Fred wrong&#8221; has sometimes failed and sometimes succeeded. In almost every case, it has pushed forward the frontiers of knowledge. Even Hoyle at his most outrageous&#8211;for example, proposing that the influenza and HIV viruses are dropped down on Earth from comets, and that interstellar dust grains are bacteria&#8211;has led to significant advances in knowledge (although turning up nothing to support those particular notions).</i></p>
<p><i>It might be useful for scientists now and again to list some of their mistakes. It might play an instructive role in illuminating and demythologizing the process of science and in enlightening younger scientists. Even Johannes Kepler, Isaac Newton, Charles Darwin, Gregor Mendel, and Albert Einstein made serious mistakes. But the scientific enterprise arranges things so that teamwork prevails: What one of us, even the most brilliant among us, misses, another of us, even someone much less celebrated and capable, may detect and rectify.</i></p>
<p><i>For myself, I&#8217;ve tended in past books to recount some of the occasions when I&#8217;ve been right. Let me mention a few of the cases where I&#8217;ve been wrong: At a time when no spacecraft had been to Venus, I thought at first that the atmospheric pressure was several times that on Earth, rather than many tens of times. I thought the clouds of Venus were made mostly of water, when they turn out to be only 25 percent water. I thought there might be plate tectonics on Mars, when close-up spacecraft observations now show hardly a hint of plate tectonics. I thought the highish infrared temperatures of Titan might be due to a sizable greenhouse effect there; instead, it turns out, it is caused by a stratospheric temperature inversion. Just before Iraq torched the Kuwaiti oil wells in January 1991, I warned that so much smoke might get so high as to disrupt agriculture in much of South Asia; as events transpired, it <b>was</b> pitch black at noon and the temperatures dropped 4 &#8211; 6 degrees C over the Persian Gulf, but not much smoke reached stratospheric altitudes and Asia was spared. I did not sufficiently stress the uncertainty of the calculations.</i></p>
<p><i>Different scientists have different speculative styles, some being much more cautious than others. As long as new ideas are testable and scientists are not overly dogmatic, no harm is done; indeed considerable progress can be made. In the first four instances I&#8217;ve just mentioned where I was wrong, I was trying to understand a distant world from a few clues in the absence of thorough spacecraft investigations. In the natural course of planetary exploration more data come in, and we find an army of old ideas plowed down by an armamentarium of new facts.</i></the>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/27/randi-speaks-about-sagan/comment-page-1/#comment-159273</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 22:09:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/27/randi-speaks-about-sagan/#comment-159273</guid>
		<description>An uncle bought me a copy of Cosmos when it was first published. Carl Sagan inspired critical thinking in an eight year old fundamentalist baptist private school. (got my ass whipped for it by the principal, no less!) I still have that book, warped and  dogeared, the pages stiff and the spine brittle after over a quarter century. It was confiscated, twice; once by that grade school principal, once by a science teacher at another christian private high school. I stole it back, without inhibition or remorse. (Sagan didn&#039;t teach me that, I learned that in school) It may be the only possession I treasure sentimentally. I didn&#039;t follow into science, but my life changed significantly as a direct result of Carl Sagan&#039;s life and work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An uncle bought me a copy of Cosmos when it was first published. Carl Sagan inspired critical thinking in an eight year old fundamentalist baptist private school. (got my ass whipped for it by the principal, no less!) I still have that book, warped and  dogeared, the pages stiff and the spine brittle after over a quarter century. It was confiscated, twice; once by that grade school principal, once by a science teacher at another christian private high school. I stole it back, without inhibition or remorse. (Sagan didn&#8217;t teach me that, I learned that in school) It may be the only possession I treasure sentimentally. I didn&#8217;t follow into science, but my life changed significantly as a direct result of Carl Sagan&#8217;s life and work.</p>
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		<title>By: Liz A.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/27/randi-speaks-about-sagan/comment-page-1/#comment-159230</link>
		<dc:creator>Liz A.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 18:49:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/27/randi-speaks-about-sagan/#comment-159230</guid>
		<description>Like a lot of you here, I&#039;ve Sagan to thank for jump-starting my interest in science. I read his &quot;Demon-Haunted World&quot; and &quot;Cosmos&quot; in my freshman year of college, and those two books inspired me to try out the &#039;majors-only&#039; biology course rather than the general education one that I normally would have taken as a linguistics major. 

Four years later, and I&#039;m typing this in a hotel room in a city across the country from my hometown, relaxing after  having just finished my interviews for a Ph.D. in neuroscience. If not for his works, I would undoubtedly not be here; he has literally changed my life. Say what you will about his personality or his scientific ability, but do not say that he has not contributed to science. I know there are many others my age who went into science after they first discovered Sagan.

Still, I wish I would have met him or seen him, or even known about him before he died. He passed away when I was barely out of elementary school.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like a lot of you here, I&#8217;ve Sagan to thank for jump-starting my interest in science. I read his &#8220;Demon-Haunted World&#8221; and &#8220;Cosmos&#8221; in my freshman year of college, and those two books inspired me to try out the &#8216;majors-only&#8217; biology course rather than the general education one that I normally would have taken as a linguistics major. </p>
<p>Four years later, and I&#8217;m typing this in a hotel room in a city across the country from my hometown, relaxing after  having just finished my interviews for a Ph.D. in neuroscience. If not for his works, I would undoubtedly not be here; he has literally changed my life. Say what you will about his personality or his scientific ability, but do not say that he has not contributed to science. I know there are many others my age who went into science after they first discovered Sagan.</p>
<p>Still, I wish I would have met him or seen him, or even known about him before he died. He passed away when I was barely out of elementary school.</p>
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		<title>By: Naomi</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/27/randi-speaks-about-sagan/comment-page-1/#comment-159177</link>
		<dc:creator>Naomi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 13:40:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/27/randi-speaks-about-sagan/#comment-159177</guid>
		<description>Fantastic video! I&#039;m a latecomer - I only saw Cosmos at the beginning of last year, and started reading his books around then - but Sagan has still been one of the most influential figures in my life. It&#039;s because of him that I finally decided to turn my lifelong fascination with science in to a career, and that I&#039;m now at uni doing a Bachelor of Science (majoring in geology, hoping to get in to planetary science). So yeah, definitely a very strong influence, and a true inspiration. The world is poorer without him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fantastic video! I&#8217;m a latecomer &#8211; I only saw Cosmos at the beginning of last year, and started reading his books around then &#8211; but Sagan has still been one of the most influential figures in my life. It&#8217;s because of him that I finally decided to turn my lifelong fascination with science in to a career, and that I&#8217;m now at uni doing a Bachelor of Science (majoring in geology, hoping to get in to planetary science). So yeah, definitely a very strong influence, and a true inspiration. The world is poorer without him.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Drumm The Astronomy Bum</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/27/randi-speaks-about-sagan/comment-page-1/#comment-159131</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Drumm The Astronomy Bum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 05:22:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/27/randi-speaks-about-sagan/#comment-159131</guid>
		<description>I played that very same Carl Sagan speech that Randi quotes today to 2 of my astronomy club members in my truck. It&#039;s on the Point Of Inquiry podcast episode that lists Ann Druyan as the interviewee and is dated 9/15/06. Audio was a little hissy, but the content was superb!

The &quot;combustible mix of ignorance &amp; power&quot; part was absolutely prescient. It describes George W. Bush to a T! 

Carl gets to say &quot;I told you so!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I played that very same Carl Sagan speech that Randi quotes today to 2 of my astronomy club members in my truck. It&#8217;s on the Point Of Inquiry podcast episode that lists Ann Druyan as the interviewee and is dated 9/15/06. Audio was a little hissy, but the content was superb!</p>
<p>The &#8220;combustible mix of ignorance &#038; power&#8221; part was absolutely prescient. It describes George W. Bush to a T! </p>
<p>Carl gets to say &#8220;I told you so!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: TPO</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/27/randi-speaks-about-sagan/comment-page-1/#comment-159051</link>
		<dc:creator>TPO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 01:35:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/02/27/randi-speaks-about-sagan/#comment-159051</guid>
		<description>My response to this blog: &lt;a href=&quot;http://theperplexedobserver.blogspot.com/2009/02/ideas-that-will-never-grow-old-randi-on.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ideas That Will Never Grow Old: Randi on Sagan&lt;/a&gt;

Thanks for the video Phil...(Your blog rules)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My response to this blog: <a href="http://theperplexedobserver.blogspot.com/2009/02/ideas-that-will-never-grow-old-randi-on.html" rel="nofollow">Ideas That Will Never Grow Old: Randi on Sagan</a></p>
<p>Thanks for the video Phil&#8230;(Your blog rules)</p>
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