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	<title>Comments on: International Women&#039;s Day</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/09/international-womens-day/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/09/international-womens-day/</link>
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		<title>By: Katherine Boyd</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/09/international-womens-day/#comment-151292</link>
		<dc:creator>Katherine Boyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Mar 2012 01:05:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/09/international-womens-day/#comment-151292</guid>
		<description>Thank You! BTW: Are there ANY female-friendly constellation stories? The female figures in the greek constellations are currently depicted as vain, jealous, chained up, objects of rape, incest (Hindu skylore), or at fault for causing masculine characters to dissapoint the gods. BORING. I even search other and ancient cultures. Do you think that all skygazing cultures throughout history devalued/objectified women, or could it be that only misogynists have since interpreted/recorded the skylore?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank You! BTW: Are there ANY female-friendly constellation stories? The female figures in the greek constellations are currently depicted as vain, jealous, chained up, objects of rape, incest (Hindu skylore), or at fault for causing masculine characters to dissapoint the gods. BORING. I even search other and ancient cultures. Do you think that all skygazing cultures throughout history devalued/objectified women, or could it be that only misogynists have since interpreted/recorded the skylore?</p>
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		<title>By: biomedgirl</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/09/international-womens-day/#comment-151291</link>
		<dc:creator>biomedgirl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Nov 2010 11:53:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/09/international-womens-day/#comment-151291</guid>
		<description>Thanks for saying this, Phil! As an undergrad applying to PhD programs, I&#039;ve sometimes wondered if I&#039;m going to experience discrimination (I&#039;m a Hispanic female). Fortunately, I think that there are a LOT of women in the biomedical sciences, so I might be safer than a woman going into, say, the physical sciences. But what do I know :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for saying this, Phil! As an undergrad applying to PhD programs, I&#8217;ve sometimes wondered if I&#8217;m going to experience discrimination (I&#8217;m a Hispanic female). Fortunately, I think that there are a LOT of women in the biomedical sciences, so I might be safer than a woman going into, say, the physical sciences. But what do I know <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Darin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/09/international-womens-day/#comment-151290</link>
		<dc:creator>Darin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Mar 2010 21:02:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/09/international-womens-day/#comment-151290</guid>
		<description>9cube Says:
[..]Sorry, girls, but if you want to go raise several (or even one) children, you probably won’t be able to have a high-powered career at the same time. The sociological research I have read supports this, although I’d be interested in research which does not. [..]

I actually have a real world example that I&#039;ll share in a moment, where evidently you can have your cake and eat it too.

In general, I fully agree it should be the most qualified person for the job, and regretfully this is not always the case. I also concede that in the past (and currently in some professions) that it does tend to be male dominated and women often hit &#039;glass ceilings&#039; in those vocations. Ironically, I recently read an article about a male nurse trying to succeed in a career that is made up predominantly of women - and what he describes is a bias and unfair treatment of him performing that same role as his female coworkers (by those coworkers or female management). An interesting dichotomy to think about.

I&#039;ve also noted a couple of other items that, as a male, now seem unfair to me as a gender. One example would be the large contracting firm that I work for participates in &quot;International Women&#039;s Day&quot;. During this time any woman in the firm can take the entire day (paid no less) to attend various seminars and sessions on womens topics. And I am happy they are allowed to do that. I on the other hand would appreciate something similar that I could attend, and be paid to do it as well.

The next example is an actual scenario that is occuring with a friend of mine in a large law firm in DC, and actually proves that in some vocations you evidently can have children and a high power job. In his firm a woman who has a child gets 4 months paid maternity leave. That&#039;s right, 4 full months. And then the following months they can ramp back in at 50%, then 75%, prior to returning full time. His law firm does this because of retention - too many women were leaving the firm when having children. The main reason for doing so isn&#039;t because of their unique or better qualifications, but because their clients want to be seen as doing business with a firm with a &#039;good&#039; ethnic / gender balance.

Honestly, for me it&#039;s not about gender, it is about equality. And equal means equal in both directions for the defintion to truly apply (IMHO). To right a wrong, bettering the position of one gender should not penalize the other in the process (regardless of which it is)....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>9cube Says:<br />
[..]Sorry, girls, but if you want to go raise several (or even one) children, you probably won’t be able to have a high-powered career at the same time. The sociological research I have read supports this, although I’d be interested in research which does not. [..]</p>
<p>I actually have a real world example that I&#8217;ll share in a moment, where evidently you can have your cake and eat it too.</p>
<p>In general, I fully agree it should be the most qualified person for the job, and regretfully this is not always the case. I also concede that in the past (and currently in some professions) that it does tend to be male dominated and women often hit &#8216;glass ceilings&#8217; in those vocations. Ironically, I recently read an article about a male nurse trying to succeed in a career that is made up predominantly of women &#8211; and what he describes is a bias and unfair treatment of him performing that same role as his female coworkers (by those coworkers or female management). An interesting dichotomy to think about.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve also noted a couple of other items that, as a male, now seem unfair to me as a gender. One example would be the large contracting firm that I work for participates in &#8220;International Women&#8217;s Day&#8221;. During this time any woman in the firm can take the entire day (paid no less) to attend various seminars and sessions on womens topics. And I am happy they are allowed to do that. I on the other hand would appreciate something similar that I could attend, and be paid to do it as well.</p>
<p>The next example is an actual scenario that is occuring with a friend of mine in a large law firm in DC, and actually proves that in some vocations you evidently can have children and a high power job. In his firm a woman who has a child gets 4 months paid maternity leave. That&#8217;s right, 4 full months. And then the following months they can ramp back in at 50%, then 75%, prior to returning full time. His law firm does this because of retention &#8211; too many women were leaving the firm when having children. The main reason for doing so isn&#8217;t because of their unique or better qualifications, but because their clients want to be seen as doing business with a firm with a &#8216;good&#8217; ethnic / gender balance.</p>
<p>Honestly, for me it&#8217;s not about gender, it is about equality. And equal means equal in both directions for the defintion to truly apply (IMHO). To right a wrong, bettering the position of one gender should not penalize the other in the process (regardless of which it is)&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Meeting for women physics undergrads &#124; Bad Astronomy &#124; Discover Magazine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/09/international-womens-day/#comment-151289</link>
		<dc:creator>Meeting for women physics undergrads &#124; Bad Astronomy &#124; Discover Magazine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Aug 2009 18:10:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/09/international-womens-day/#comment-151289</guid>
		<description>[...] of women in the sciences, so something that fosters their enthusiasm and encourages young women is something I like [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of women in the sciences, so something that fosters their enthusiasm and encourages young women is something I like [...] </p>
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		<title>By: List Hot Astronomers - Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/09/international-womens-day/#comment-151288</link>
		<dc:creator>List Hot Astronomers - Bad Astronomy and Universe Today Forum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 18:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/09/international-womens-day/#comment-151288</guid>
		<description>[...] of able astronomers. I found it. It turned out to be a list of female astronomers, for the topic of International Women</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of able astronomers. I found it. It turned out to be a list of female astronomers, for the topic of International Women</p>
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		<title>By: darth_borehd</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/09/international-womens-day/#comment-151287</link>
		<dc:creator>darth_borehd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/09/international-womens-day/#comment-151287</guid>
		<description>There is a difference between being [i]right[/i] and being [i]equal[/i].  Some cultures treat woman horribly.  But some other cultures might say American culture does the same thing, from their point of view.  Like Einstein&#039;s Theory of Relativity, Moral Relativism is dependent on your frame of reference.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a difference between being [i]right[/i] and being [i]equal[/i].  Some cultures treat woman horribly.  But some other cultures might say American culture does the same thing, from their point of view.  Like Einstein&#8217;s Theory of Relativity, Moral Relativism is dependent on your frame of reference.</p>
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		<title>By: Peregrine</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/09/international-womens-day/#comment-151286</link>
		<dc:creator>Peregrine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 19:10:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/09/international-womens-day/#comment-151286</guid>
		<description>Well said Phil.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well said Phil.</p>
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		<title>By: Sundance</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/09/international-womens-day/#comment-151285</link>
		<dc:creator>Sundance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 18:20:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/09/international-womens-day/#comment-151285</guid>
		<description>Jim:&quot;Institutionalized sexism is a very easy answer, but I think it’s just too easy. Until we make changes to that Long and Lonely Road that leads to a science career, I think were going to lose a lot of women and minorities.&quot;

I think you&#039;ve hit the nail on the head here, in more ways than one. I&#039;m sure there are other factors involved, but simply the fact that the path to an academic career involves a period of semi-nomadic existence must discourage a lot of people, especially if they feel a biological clock ticking. Add to that the fact that postdocs are often treated as junior researchers, incapable of pursuing their own ideas, and forced to work on a faculty-member&#039;s pet project until they achieve tenure themselves (at which point they can enforce their pet projects on the next generation of  postdocs), and the academic career path doesn&#039;t look so wonderful.

I can&#039;t help feeling that this deals a double-blow to the progress of science. Large numbers of innovative young people (including women and minorities) are discouraged from pursuing a research career, reducing the diversity of ideas being studied. And those young people who make it through the system often can&#039;t do the work they want until they are in their mid-late 30s, and are no longer the young, innovative people science needs. It&#039;s no surprise that Einstein did his most ground-breaking work while employed in a patent office rather than a university.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim:&#8221;Institutionalized sexism is a very easy answer, but I think it’s just too easy. Until we make changes to that Long and Lonely Road that leads to a science career, I think were going to lose a lot of women and minorities.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think you&#8217;ve hit the nail on the head here, in more ways than one. I&#8217;m sure there are other factors involved, but simply the fact that the path to an academic career involves a period of semi-nomadic existence must discourage a lot of people, especially if they feel a biological clock ticking. Add to that the fact that postdocs are often treated as junior researchers, incapable of pursuing their own ideas, and forced to work on a faculty-member&#8217;s pet project until they achieve tenure themselves (at which point they can enforce their pet projects on the next generation of  postdocs), and the academic career path doesn&#8217;t look so wonderful.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t help feeling that this deals a double-blow to the progress of science. Large numbers of innovative young people (including women and minorities) are discouraged from pursuing a research career, reducing the diversity of ideas being studied. And those young people who make it through the system often can&#8217;t do the work they want until they are in their mid-late 30s, and are no longer the young, innovative people science needs. It&#8217;s no surprise that Einstein did his most ground-breaking work while employed in a patent office rather than a university.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/09/international-womens-day/#comment-151284</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 15:16:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/09/international-womens-day/#comment-151284</guid>
		<description>&quot;Meanwhile, the men in my program were having children without any issues because their wives were at home and in other jobs that gave them that freedom.&quot;

Well yeah, except for the fact that they were too busy working (and society pretty much demands that they be too busy working) to actually spend time with their kids.  They very likely miss their kids&#039; first smiles, first steps, first words.  But other than that, no issues whatsoever.  Nope.

Yeesh.

The lousy job market kept my wife at home with our son for three years while I took class overloads.  I envied her every day as I drove away from the house.

JIM</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Meanwhile, the men in my program were having children without any issues because their wives were at home and in other jobs that gave them that freedom.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well yeah, except for the fact that they were too busy working (and society pretty much demands that they be too busy working) to actually spend time with their kids.  They very likely miss their kids&#8217; first smiles, first steps, first words.  But other than that, no issues whatsoever.  Nope.</p>
<p>Yeesh.</p>
<p>The lousy job market kept my wife at home with our son for three years while I took class overloads.  I envied her every day as I drove away from the house.</p>
<p>JIM</p>
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		<title>By: Daffy</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/09/international-womens-day/#comment-151283</link>
		<dc:creator>Daffy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 13:10:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/09/international-womens-day/#comment-151283</guid>
		<description>Off topic, but, JasonB, when you use Rush Limbaugh&#039;s inane tactic of refusing to use the word &quot;Democratic&quot; when using the adjective form of &quot;Democrat,&quot; you make yourself look ignorant, no matter what your views on a subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Off topic, but, JasonB, when you use Rush Limbaugh&#8217;s inane tactic of refusing to use the word &#8220;Democratic&#8221; when using the adjective form of &#8220;Democrat,&#8221; you make yourself look ignorant, no matter what your views on a subject.</p>
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