When you have an ex-Minister of Defense who believes with all his heart in UFOs, and a Minister of State for Science who seems really fuzzy on what evolution is and whether it’s real, I guess it’s no surprise that a Canadian newspaper would give astronomy and astrology equal footing.
But it’s awfully embarrassing.
My friend J. Randy Atwood was interviewed by The Star to discuss the vernal equinox last week. What he didn’t know is that they would intersperse his clear reality-based answers with those of an astrologer, who says things like this word salad:
Somebody who’s born at 0 degrees Aries – that’s a particularly strong Aries person … William Shatner, Captain Kirk, has kind of the ultimate Aries energy in a way: going forth, boldly going where no one has gone before, pioneering, being in command, leading intuitively. This is Aries.
Pssst! Hey, astrologer: Captain Kirk is a character in a made-up show. He isn’t real, just like astrology. But thanks for playing.
I don’t know what offends me more: what he’s doing to science, or what he’s doing to Trek.
But that’s nothing compared to the ookiness I feel from a newspaper even giving the time of day to an astrologer, let alone elevating one to the level of expert with an actual scientist.
The Star: feh on you. Feh.
Remember:
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Tip o’ the toque to BABloggee Barry Shanko.
March 22nd, 2009 at 4:32 pm
How dare you Phil! Captain James T. Kirk is much MUCH more real than astrology.
March 22nd, 2009 at 4:37 pm
Yes we astrologers it is not ine our Prime Ministers’ wife took adbive from one.
Yes I dislike them and dislike being called one.
March 22nd, 2009 at 4:37 pm
Gak! Why do they even bother interviewing a scientist if they’re going to include such drivel?
Is that supposed to be balanced reporting?
Double gak and barf,,,
GAry 7
March 22nd, 2009 at 4:45 pm
My people have studied the historical documents and Captain Kirk is indeed real and a great leader. Down with Sarris!
March 22nd, 2009 at 4:45 pm
Embarassing.. disgusting. :-/
March 22nd, 2009 at 4:50 pm
WTF?! Geocosmic experience – is that what you get after a bite of the ‘shrooms of Earth?!
I think it is safe to either strike “professional” from association with astrologer or make it more precise like in “professional scam artist”.
March 22nd, 2009 at 4:50 pm
Apparently, the stars determine the personality of an individual character you’ll play, ignoring your real self and several other, slightly less famous, characters. How can you deny astrology when it has such precision?
March 22nd, 2009 at 4:52 pm
Blah for us. Not surprising, but too bad.
March 22nd, 2009 at 4:54 pm
As a Canadian, the only redeeming factor is that most of us (those of us not in Toronto anyway) wish Toronto was part of the US.
March 22nd, 2009 at 5:10 pm
What’s even worse, the Minister of State for Science and Technology is a medical quack (e.g. a chiropractor). This is really sad since I assume that medical research in Canada falls under this clowns’ jurisdiction.
March 22nd, 2009 at 5:21 pm
@ Torbjörn Larsson:
From the National Council on Geocosmic Research’s website:
No comment.
March 22nd, 2009 at 5:24 pm
March 22nd, 2009 at 5:27 pm
Forgot I’d scanned these, last year. These are from BC, Canada’s most read newspaper — the Vancouver Province. An astrologer predicted (on the front page!) that Barack Obama would win the presidency — ONE day before the election! Wowee. She also somehow got an article on page 3, which you can “enjoy” by clicking the second link.
http://i43.tinypic.com/2s6ppn5.jpg
http://i41.tinypic.com/fvwgew.jpg
See you all at the 2010 Winter Olympics! If you know, a trip to Vancouver is “in the stars” for you.
March 22nd, 2009 at 5:41 pm
And this is why the Toronto Star is a rag.
March 22nd, 2009 at 5:53 pm
I’m a Star subscriber and wrote a nasty comment on this article online. Not surprisingly, they censored it online. Perhaps it was my threat to cancel my subscription.
I’m thinking it may be time to go ahead and do it.
March 22nd, 2009 at 5:54 pm
FAIL!
March 22nd, 2009 at 5:58 pm
I think the idea was to try drumming up some attention for the story. Just checking out the Star web page and it took some searching even to find where that story was (I had to move to the Science and Technology page). Which lets you know how much priority it has with the editors.
March 22nd, 2009 at 6:00 pm
EPIC FAIL, Lawrence. That was EPIC.
March 22nd, 2009 at 6:14 pm
There were quite a few harsh letter aimed at the Star for this trash. It’s quite disheartening to say the least. I wonder if belief in astrology is based on stupidity, or ignorance?
March 22nd, 2009 at 6:17 pm
@Jeremy L
Toronto’s not part of the US? I though it was the capital of the great state of Canada… Wait… What’s that you say about Canada?
March 22nd, 2009 at 6:50 pm
As a Canadian, I’d just like to add that nobody likes Toronto up here. Even Torontonians…
March 22nd, 2009 at 6:57 pm
First Toronto thinks that it represents all of Canada, and now Phil Plait does too. Contrary to your beliefs, Phil, Toronto is not Canada. Contrary to what Toronto thinks, it is not the centre of Canada AND the universe.
One interview in one crappy magazine in one Canadian city does not a country make.
March 22nd, 2009 at 6:58 pm
@José:
How original.
March 22nd, 2009 at 7:24 pm
Hey, it’s an opinion piece, not a news column. I’d like to say ‘get over it’, that there are more pressing concerns than the sensationalistic opinion of one trashy columnist at the Toronto Star.
But then I noticed in the list of contributing columnists that there is a grand total of TWO who write on the subject of Science, compared with 24 for ‘Entertainment’, 38 for ‘Living’ and 15 for ‘Sports’. This is the bigger tragedy, don’t you think?
March 22nd, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Minister for science *fuzzy* about evolution? you’re too kind BA. Their minister for science is 100% anti-evolution. Look at it this way: he’s a creationist. There are many brands of creationist (old earth, young earth, etc) but the one thing they all have in common is that they are anti-evolution. Sure some claim they *do* believe in ‘evolution’ but you see their version of evolution is kooky as can be and nothing like the scientific version of evolution.
March 22nd, 2009 at 7:37 pm
@JeremyL: No way dude, you keep Toronto. My dear friend from Indiana wishes Toronto were part of the USA though; she loves it and gets annoyed when I just say “blah, I’ve seen better”.
March 22nd, 2009 at 7:43 pm
I’m thinking it may be time to go ahead and do it.
I wish there was a way to favorite the comments of others, hint hint BA, query the hive overmind.
March 22nd, 2009 at 8:33 pm
At least we still have Jack Bauer, but can you please PLEASE take Celine Dion off our hands?
March 22nd, 2009 at 8:44 pm
[...] You can read more about it on the Bad Astronomy Blog, here. [...]
March 22nd, 2009 at 8:54 pm
@Craig
Well, at least as original as a Canadian complaining about Toronto.
March 22nd, 2009 at 9:08 pm
Kiefer is a secret agent to bring socialized medicine to the states, just furthering his grandfathers efforts.
(For people who do not know Kiefers’ mother shirley Douglas daughter of Tommy Douglas who worked hard for universal healthcare.)
March 22nd, 2009 at 9:11 pm
Oh a quick joke about Toronto.
Imagine two brothers. One is hard drinking womaniser, the other is an accountant. Montreal is the hard drinking womaniser and the other is Toronto.
March 22nd, 2009 at 10:34 pm
[i]I guess it’s no surprise that a Canadian newspaper would give astronomy and astrology equal footing.[/i]
Really? Why is it no surprise? That’s quite the generalization, Phil.
And frankly, I completely disagree 100%. I think a LOT of people all around the world struggle with seeing the difference between astronomy and astrology.
As a Canadian, and someone who has been paying attention to the REAL stars (not the made-up stuff in astrology), I make it an almost daily goal to make sure everyone around me is somehow aware of the skies. And it’s working. Just not with the media.
March 22nd, 2009 at 11:31 pm
@ Jest :
“I think a LOT of people all around the world struggle with seeing the difference between astronomy and astrology.”
That is both sadly true & truly sad.
March 22nd, 2009 at 11:55 pm
I think a LOT of people all around the world struggle with seeing the difference between astronomy and astrology
@jest: Hmmm, and why do you think that might be? Couldn’t have anything to do with, say, the media conflating and/or juxtaposing the two, could it?
March 23rd, 2009 at 12:01 am
Also, that’s why I think what Phil does here is so important. Exposing this buffonery for what it is, and getting louder about it, might be the only recourse we have. If nothing else, perhaps we can shame these charlatans and their media coddlers into honing up to their dishonesty and ignorance.
March 23rd, 2009 at 12:02 am
I’m an idiot, honing=owning (or something). Goodness, I need to slow down now.
March 23rd, 2009 at 12:09 am
I don’t know what offends me more: what he’s doing to science, or what he’s doing to Trek.
Well I know! Science is like Spock: Cool and logical with no ego to bruise, but what he does to Trek is BLASPHEMY!
March 23rd, 2009 at 1:00 am
Most people don’t know the difference between astronomy and astrology. It’s not because of stories like this one. It’s because they don’t care, plain and simple. If they wanted to know, they would. It just isn’t important enough to them for them to bother to remember the information about the subject that they are exposed to.
March 23rd, 2009 at 2:21 am
The problem is that astronomy tends to be a bit more cold and impersonal than astrology.
While I have on a number of occasions been able to use “Hey, wanna see the comet?” or “Let’s take a look at the lunar eclipse!” as an enducement to take a young lady outside to look at the night sky, it’s a lot easier to do a natal chart and have a long discussion about the other’s personality, and more opportunities ensue therefrom.
March 23rd, 2009 at 3:15 am
I saw an excellent article recently that does an excellent job of showing how astrology is BS. It doesn’t attack the ridiculous superstition as such, only demonstrates that the calculations done by astrology * can’t * be accurate because astrologers have not changed their charts in over 2,000 years.
They completely skip one constellation that the sun passes through – and all the other “birth signs” are given invalid dates as a result. Interesting stuff:
http://www.livescience.com/strangenews/your-astronomical-sign.html
March 23rd, 2009 at 5:09 am
Most people would love to have a palm reading and an astrologer tell an interesting fact than tracking down a supernova in some remote alien galaxy. We need to admit that Astronomy is not as popular as Astrology. For a common man, Astrology will always score and win over Astronomy. Cheers to Astrology, it has made life interesting……..!! Long Live Astronomy….!!
March 23rd, 2009 at 5:54 am
“Deepak Says:
March 23rd, 2009 at 5:09 am
Most people would love to have a palm reading and an astrologer tell an interesting fact than tracking down a supernova in some remote alien galaxy.”
Lucky for me I’m not “most people” then.
I’d be holding back laughter if someone gave me a “palm reading”, while supernovas are not only interesting, but real, too.
March 23rd, 2009 at 6:15 am
If they wanted to know, they would.
I disagree. Misinformation is one of the primary reasons people are ill-informed.
March 23rd, 2009 at 7:07 am
Just as a point of interest, a newspaper copy desk person of my acquaintance regaled us with tales of how they had to make up the astrology column when the “real” one didn’t come in on time and they needed something for deadline. Nobody ever noticed… or complained. But, if they didn’t run a column, the paper would get swamped with whiny complainers who couldn’t live without their daily dose of unreality.
March 23rd, 2009 at 7:10 am
@ccpetersen: LMAO, I worked as a newspaper editor. It was true at that publication too. In fact, newspapers usually purchase that crap from a syndicated source. Making it up can save money. People go off their rocker if you take it away though. Ack! Teh Stupid! It burns!
March 23rd, 2009 at 9:24 am
aw nuts. Now that the stupid-magnet is out of office in the states it seems stupidity is dispersing northwards again. Knew we should have built a fence while it was still contained.
March 23rd, 2009 at 9:29 am
I have many astronomy students who frequently entitle their research papers “Astrology” class. They are clueless, my response, you’ve been in class 10 weeks and still don’t know its proper name.
But no doubt, the MSM contributes to this. After all, some of us grew up with the Flintstones where Fred works on a brontosaur, has a pet Dino which looks like a dino but yips like a dog, have saber toothed tigers around, etc. Talk about mixing up your Mesozoic era with Pleistocene epoch! Remember, the movie where Raquel Welch was the cave lady and the cave man fight the dinosaur for her! What drivel.
March 23rd, 2009 at 10:52 am
@ Jeff, re: Flintstones and “1 Million Years B.C.”
There is a rather broad gap that separates fact from fiction. Astronomy students who title their assignments “astrology” are one thing (stupid). People enjoying clearly identified fictional entertainment is entirely another.
I grew up watching that “drivel,” too, yet I know science from hokum.
With all due respect, if, after 10 weeks your students still confuse astrology with astronomy, perhaps there’s something lacking in the curriculum or its presentation?
March 23rd, 2009 at 11:54 am
Jeff,
I’d dock them points for the “astrology” title. Kuhnigget, you haven’t been teaching lately, have you? Some of these kids couldn’t learn no matter how good the teacher is.
No point in being insulting to Jeff.
March 23rd, 2009 at 12:17 pm
Now just a minute, I simply must protest. The Flintstones were absolutely not drivel! For Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin, the Flintstones obviously trumped Darwin or anything you’d see on PBS.
March 23rd, 2009 at 12:28 pm
@kuhnigget: not everyone gets it. I’ve had people say to me, “Man, it must have been terrifying to live back then, with those dinosaurs running around!” and then express genuine surprise when I inform them that no, people and dinosaurs did NOT coexist. These weren’t creationist folk, either. Just people with pretty much no interest in science who had never paid enough attention to know better.
March 23rd, 2009 at 12:43 pm
@ Jeff & CC & Jo:
Well, my mom was a teacher for 25 years, so I know a little of what I speak, but yeah, point taken I guess. No insult intended.
I do hope Jeff does as cc hope’s and docks the little morons points. No use perpetuating the ignorance.
March 23rd, 2009 at 12:46 pm
You’re drawing connections that are tenuous at best.
<>
This ia Paul Hellyer, who was last a minister over 40 years ago, and who has not been an MP for 35 years. He’s an elderly man now, and his views on UFO’s were only mentioned a few years ago. I don’t think believing with “all his heart” is particularly accurate, and his situation deserves more pity than censure, in my opinion.
The evolution-related opinions of the minister are distressing. However, it’s often missed that as a minister of state, his actual power is quite limited. Comments that hell “gut scientific research” or anything close to it are just silly. He couldn’t even if he tried.
The Star? Thrash away. Someone there has a weakness for astrology in particular. I’ve written a few letters to the editor or to the public editor (aka ombudsman) over the last few years, and got the response that they’re not endorsing astrology, but it is popular.
I almost wonder more about the individual who allowed his science-based comments to be published alongside the astrology swill. What was he thinking?
March 23rd, 2009 at 1:39 pm
@Jeff
There is no drivel about Raquel Welch in her prime
March 23rd, 2009 at 1:59 pm
I wonder if you guys saw this garbage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tuna2w2pgnM
March 23rd, 2009 at 2:19 pm
@ Jeff:
Oh, but one thing…no more dissing Lord Harryhausen’s movies, kay?
March 23rd, 2009 at 3:05 pm
I’d like to point out that the astrology idiot was trying to illustrate a personality type by referencing a well known fictional character. He was neither saying Kirk is real, nor what he saying the character was actually “born” at the right time to be an Aries.
Astrology is stupid enough to stand on it’s own.
March 23rd, 2009 at 4:47 pm
jest
The Toronto Star is a Toronto newspaper not a Canadian newspaper.
__________
The Canadian Association for Astrological Educators offers courses? In what? BTW exam day is May 30.
March 23rd, 2009 at 7:52 pm
As a Canadian who is proud of my country where religion plays NO part in government, I am embarrased to read this. Please don’t judge Canadians by this ridiculous statement. I apologize.
March 24th, 2009 at 7:00 am
“Canada slips further into goofiness.”
That’s not a science-based assertion. Ergo…”More evidence that even smart Americans can’t think.”
March 24th, 2009 at 7:44 am
The Toronto Star is the number one newspaper in Canada by circulation.
Not really relevant to anything but of some interest: it is also the only major newspaper in Canada with a liberal editorial bias. All the others have conservative biases to varying degrees.
Just useful to remember sometimes that idiocy and anti-science freely crosses political boundaries.
March 24th, 2009 at 11:56 am
Folks, its clearly a joke. Why is everyone so touchy lately?
March 25th, 2009 at 4:12 pm
Jeremy L: “As a Canadian, the only redeeming factor is that most of us (those of us not in Toronto anyway) wish Toronto was part of the US.”
Jeremy L, most of us would appreciate it if you stopped speaking for most of us.