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	<title>Comments on: Crumbling media</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/27/crumbling-media/</link>
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		<title>By: Quiet Desperation</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/27/crumbling-media/#comment-156803</link>
		<dc:creator>Quiet Desperation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Mar 2009 07:44:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/27/crumbling-media/#comment-156803</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;By defintion, that’s a partisan opinion.&lt;/i&gt;

The legislature passes a budget that runs counter to what any group of citizens you care to define opposes. That is a representative government FAIL by definition. It is not partisan.

&lt;i&gt;You seem to be arguing that media in California is bad because they aren’t rnning news pieces attacking the “criminal” legislature. But then, a news story loses legitimacy if it attacks its subjects.&lt;/i&gt;

See, I&#039;ve always felt that was rather naive and sadly idealized POV on the media. I want rabid news hounds out nipping at the heels of elected officials to keep them honest. Failing that, expose them to the point the resign in shame, or fake shame- either way is fine with me as long as they get the heck outta Sacramento or D.C.

Where are the Woodwards &amp; Bernsteins of the current generation? Where is the real investigative reporting that does not involve Paris Hilton or Octomom?

Did you ever read the Transmetropolitan graphic novels by Warren Ellis?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmetropolitan

The main character, Spider Jerusalem, fits my mold of the ideal journalist. Here&#039;s a quote from the character:

&quot;I want to see humans talking about human life personally. I want to see people who give a (bleep) about the world. I want... I want to see posessed journalists! YES! I want to see people like me rising up with hate, laying about them with fiery eyes and steaming genetalia--possessed by ancient volcano gods from the Polynesian islands, waving vast breasts and improbable p*nises at the secret chiefs of the world--naked glowing god-journalists browntrousering the naughty twenty-four hours a day, a new planet earth!&quot;

Now *THAT* would be journalism I could respect. :-) Heck, I&#039;d go back to college and become a journalist. Might still do it if I can retire from my current career early enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>By defintion, that’s a partisan opinion.</i></p>
<p>The legislature passes a budget that runs counter to what any group of citizens you care to define opposes. That is a representative government FAIL by definition. It is not partisan.</p>
<p><i>You seem to be arguing that media in California is bad because they aren’t rnning news pieces attacking the “criminal” legislature. But then, a news story loses legitimacy if it attacks its subjects.</i></p>
<p>See, I&#8217;ve always felt that was rather naive and sadly idealized POV on the media. I want rabid news hounds out nipping at the heels of elected officials to keep them honest. Failing that, expose them to the point the resign in shame, or fake shame- either way is fine with me as long as they get the heck outta Sacramento or D.C.</p>
<p>Where are the Woodwards &amp; Bernsteins of the current generation? Where is the real investigative reporting that does not involve Paris Hilton or Octomom?</p>
<p>Did you ever read the Transmetropolitan graphic novels by Warren Ellis?</p>
<p>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmetropolitan</p>
<p>The main character, Spider Jerusalem, fits my mold of the ideal journalist. Here&#8217;s a quote from the character:</p>
<p>&#8220;I want to see humans talking about human life personally. I want to see people who give a (bleep) about the world. I want&#8230; I want to see posessed journalists! YES! I want to see people like me rising up with hate, laying about them with fiery eyes and steaming genetalia&#8211;possessed by ancient volcano gods from the Polynesian islands, waving vast breasts and improbable p*nises at the secret chiefs of the world&#8211;naked glowing god-journalists browntrousering the naughty twenty-four hours a day, a new planet earth!&#8221;</p>
<p>Now *THAT* would be journalism I could respect. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' />  Heck, I&#8217;d go back to college and become a journalist. Might still do it if I can retire from my current career early enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Femmostroppo Reader - March 30, 2009 &#8212; Hoyden About Town</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/27/crumbling-media/#comment-156802</link>
		<dc:creator>Femmostroppo Reader - March 30, 2009 &#8212; Hoyden About Town</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Mar 2009 21:10:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/27/crumbling-media/#comment-156802</guid>
		<description>[...] Crumbling media [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Crumbling media [...] </p>
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		<title>By: justcorbly</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/27/crumbling-media/#comment-156801</link>
		<dc:creator>justcorbly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Mar 2009 11:16:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/27/crumbling-media/#comment-156801</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The California legislature is no longer a representative government, and is on the verge of becoming criminal in the eyes of many folks of many ideological persuasions. &lt;/i&gt;

By defintion, that&#039;s a partisan opinion. You seem to be arguing that media in California is bad because they aren&#039;t rnning news pieces attacking the &quot;criminal&quot; legislature.  But then, a news story loses legitimacy if it attacks its subjects.

&lt;i&gt;... just how far his profession has fallen...&lt;/i&gt;

Every pressure, every temptation and every bias that allegedly has afficted traditional media is equally at play in all of the new platforms trumpeted as replacing it.

&lt;i&gt;...Colbert... O&#039;Reilly... Stewart...&lt;/i&gt;

All comedians, although one is an unintentional fool. News exists on these shows only to set up the comic bits.  (O&#039;Reilly does the same thing as the others, except that he spins a rant rather than a joke.)  People who claim to get their news from these shows are fundamentally ill-informed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The California legislature is no longer a representative government, and is on the verge of becoming criminal in the eyes of many folks of many ideological persuasions. </i></p>
<p>By defintion, that&#8217;s a partisan opinion. You seem to be arguing that media in California is bad because they aren&#8217;t rnning news pieces attacking the &#8220;criminal&#8221; legislature.  But then, a news story loses legitimacy if it attacks its subjects.</p>
<p><i>&#8230; just how far his profession has fallen&#8230;</i></p>
<p>Every pressure, every temptation and every bias that allegedly has afficted traditional media is equally at play in all of the new platforms trumpeted as replacing it.</p>
<p><i>&#8230;Colbert&#8230; O&#8217;Reilly&#8230; Stewart&#8230;</i></p>
<p>All comedians, although one is an unintentional fool. News exists on these shows only to set up the comic bits.  (O&#8217;Reilly does the same thing as the others, except that he spins a rant rather than a joke.)  People who claim to get their news from these shows are fundamentally ill-informed.</p>
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		<title>By: Quiet_Desperation</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/27/crumbling-media/#comment-156800</link>
		<dc:creator>Quiet_Desperation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Mar 2009 07:42:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/27/crumbling-media/#comment-156800</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Case in point, my wife gets lots of emails from friends/family about “articles” they’ve read or online petitions. 9 times out of 10 they are blatantly false&lt;/i&gt;

Those make the rounds at my work every so often, and this is a place where more than half of the people have graduate degrees in technical and scientific fields. I&#039;m constantly responding with links to the relevant pages on snopes.com. It tends to be the urban myths that might somehow affect people personally, like the one about the gang initiation where they supposedly drive in a car at night without their headlights, and the initiate is supposed to shoot the driver of the first car that blinks their lights as a reminder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Case in point, my wife gets lots of emails from friends/family about “articles” they’ve read or online petitions. 9 times out of 10 they are blatantly false</i></p>
<p>Those make the rounds at my work every so often, and this is a place where more than half of the people have graduate degrees in technical and scientific fields. I&#8217;m constantly responding with links to the relevant pages on snopes.com. It tends to be the urban myths that might somehow affect people personally, like the one about the gang initiation where they supposedly drive in a car at night without their headlights, and the initiate is supposed to shoot the driver of the first car that blinks their lights as a reminder.</p>
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		<title>By: Quiet_Desperation</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/27/crumbling-media/#comment-156799</link>
		<dc:creator>Quiet_Desperation</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Mar 2009 07:33:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/27/crumbling-media/#comment-156799</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;justcorbly Says:That’s a partisan opinion, &lt;/i&gt;

Absolute 100% pure ignorant BULL. The last budget, full of regressive taxes for which there were MANY alternatives, was opposed by *every* group polled, no matter how you sliced the data. By race, by Party, by gender, by favorite color... it didn&#039;t matter- universally opposed. The California legislature is no longer a representative government, and is on the verge of becoming criminal in the eyes of many folks of many ideological persuasions. For frak&#039;s sake you played the exact &quot;marginalize the opposition&quot; card I described like a programmed little robot. You are what the political class refers to as a useful idiot. Get out of your unreality bubble and smell the truth.

&lt;i&gt;A Journalist Says: Journalism is an art, and it is a vital one to the success of our country. Journalists are the people who call out the government.&lt;/i&gt;

And when will that be happening, exactly? Your profession is swiftly falling below that of lawyers in terms of public opinion. I&#039;d trust a strung out junkie before I trusted most of the vermin who call pose as journalists these days. You guys botched Bush. You are botching Obama. The California state government is regularly fellated by local news media despite their Biblical proportion failures. Your words are empty and speak of a fantasy world that does not exist.

The Los Angeles Times, for example, isn&#039;t dying because of the Internet. It&#039;s dying because they print absolute nonsense on a daily basis.

There&#039;s a scene in a Tom Clancy book (I forget which one. He went way downhill after Debt Of Honor) that I thought made the point nicely. An old time journalist is teamed up with a new hotshot reporter. They are chasing some guy around trying to get a story. The guy finally turns to the reporters and says, &quot;Why should I trust you? You&#039;re journalists!&quot; And this hits the old time guy really hard. He realizes just how far his profession has fallen.

&lt;i&gt;And I live in a world where people get their “news” from places like Steven Colbert… NOT JOURNALISM.&lt;/i&gt;

Totally agreed here. I remember checking out Colbert to see what the buzz was, and after three episodes I was like, &quot;Is this all he does? A bad O&#039;Reilly parody? I don&#039;t like O&#039;Reilly, so why do I want to watch the same bad parody over and over?&quot; I can&#039;t stand John Stewert, either. Nothing to do with the politics. It&#039;s his constant mugging and overacting to the camera. It&#039;s tiresome after just a few minutes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>justcorbly Says:That’s a partisan opinion, </i></p>
<p>Absolute 100% pure ignorant BULL. The last budget, full of regressive taxes for which there were MANY alternatives, was opposed by *every* group polled, no matter how you sliced the data. By race, by Party, by gender, by favorite color&#8230; it didn&#8217;t matter- universally opposed. The California legislature is no longer a representative government, and is on the verge of becoming criminal in the eyes of many folks of many ideological persuasions. For frak&#8217;s sake you played the exact &#8220;marginalize the opposition&#8221; card I described like a programmed little robot. You are what the political class refers to as a useful idiot. Get out of your unreality bubble and smell the truth.</p>
<p><i>A Journalist Says: Journalism is an art, and it is a vital one to the success of our country. Journalists are the people who call out the government.</i></p>
<p>And when will that be happening, exactly? Your profession is swiftly falling below that of lawyers in terms of public opinion. I&#8217;d trust a strung out junkie before I trusted most of the vermin who call pose as journalists these days. You guys botched Bush. You are botching Obama. The California state government is regularly fellated by local news media despite their Biblical proportion failures. Your words are empty and speak of a fantasy world that does not exist.</p>
<p>The Los Angeles Times, for example, isn&#8217;t dying because of the Internet. It&#8217;s dying because they print absolute nonsense on a daily basis.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a scene in a Tom Clancy book (I forget which one. He went way downhill after Debt Of Honor) that I thought made the point nicely. An old time journalist is teamed up with a new hotshot reporter. They are chasing some guy around trying to get a story. The guy finally turns to the reporters and says, &#8220;Why should I trust you? You&#8217;re journalists!&#8221; And this hits the old time guy really hard. He realizes just how far his profession has fallen.</p>
<p><i>And I live in a world where people get their “news” from places like Steven Colbert… NOT JOURNALISM.</i></p>
<p>Totally agreed here. I remember checking out Colbert to see what the buzz was, and after three episodes I was like, &#8220;Is this all he does? A bad O&#8217;Reilly parody? I don&#8217;t like O&#8217;Reilly, so why do I want to watch the same bad parody over and over?&#8221; I can&#8217;t stand John Stewert, either. Nothing to do with the politics. It&#8217;s his constant mugging and overacting to the camera. It&#8217;s tiresome after just a few minutes.</p>
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		<title>By: A Journalist</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/27/crumbling-media/#comment-156798</link>
		<dc:creator>A Journalist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 29 Mar 2009 03:51:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/27/crumbling-media/#comment-156798</guid>
		<description>@ Charles Boyer:

Show me a blog which consistently posts honest, balanced, unbiased, and thoroughly researched posts that investigate serious topics.

And then show me any typical American who can tell the difference between editorializing and good journalism.

Also, it is a mistake to call journalism my profession--I am still a student journalist. And I live in a world where people get their &quot;news&quot; from places like Steven Colbert... NOT JOURNALISM. It is unfortunate that people with opinions are considered journalists these days. The solution is not to throw your hands up in the air and give up on the profession altogether; the solution is to stop the spread of ignorance and to help the public renew their faith in it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Charles Boyer:</p>
<p>Show me a blog which consistently posts honest, balanced, unbiased, and thoroughly researched posts that investigate serious topics.</p>
<p>And then show me any typical American who can tell the difference between editorializing and good journalism.</p>
<p>Also, it is a mistake to call journalism my profession&#8211;I am still a student journalist. And I live in a world where people get their &#8220;news&#8221; from places like Steven Colbert&#8230; NOT JOURNALISM. It is unfortunate that people with opinions are considered journalists these days. The solution is not to throw your hands up in the air and give up on the profession altogether; the solution is to stop the spread of ignorance and to help the public renew their faith in it.</p>
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		<title>By: justcorbly</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/27/crumbling-media/#comment-156797</link>
		<dc:creator>justcorbly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2009 22:25:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/27/crumbling-media/#comment-156797</guid>
		<description>Re:  Twitter and news --

Let&#039;s imagine what would happen if every real reporter started producing stories no more than 140 characters long.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re:  Twitter and news &#8211;</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s imagine what would happen if every real reporter started producing stories no more than 140 characters long.</p>
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		<title>By: Grego</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/27/crumbling-media/#comment-156796</link>
		<dc:creator>Grego</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2009 16:43:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/27/crumbling-media/#comment-156796</guid>
		<description>Caleb&#039;s got a great point there. While the immediacy (i.e. if not instant gratification)  of online news is alluring, it can also be its Achilles Heel.

Online &quot;news&quot; is sadly becoming a wasteland of half-baked truths &amp; rumors, mostly by virtue of the reality of news outlets (bloggers included) all racing each other to get there first. Little gets vetted or fact-checked. You can always discreetly retract it later. Thus quality of information suffers. Note how often the anti-vaxxers take advantage of this. Speed may be awesome (35 Tweets an hour, anyone?), but once poorly conceived bilge is out there, well, it&#039;s out there.

(Full disclosure - I do make my living connected to print media, although at the digital end of it. Doesn&#039;t make me delusional , tho.)

Some may sneer at the &quot;tree based&quot; media, but one fact remains:  by the very nature of its process, print has a far greater impetus to get things right. When you&#039;re printing a run of 2.3 million magazines, errors are a lot more difficult (not to say, expensive) to correct. You can&#039;t just edit in a strikethrough &amp; be done with it. The consequences of haste &amp; rash decisions are far more severe in print. This *could* just result in a lot more thought going into the finished product.

Doesn&#039;t always, mind you - but I&#039;d be willing to bet it helps.

In short, take a lesson from Wyile E. Coyote: While that new Acme™ Rocket Pack might seem like the greatest thing ever, just watch out for the edge of the cliff...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Caleb&#8217;s got a great point there. While the immediacy (i.e. if not instant gratification)  of online news is alluring, it can also be its Achilles Heel.</p>
<p>Online &#8220;news&#8221; is sadly becoming a wasteland of half-baked truths &amp; rumors, mostly by virtue of the reality of news outlets (bloggers included) all racing each other to get there first. Little gets vetted or fact-checked. You can always discreetly retract it later. Thus quality of information suffers. Note how often the anti-vaxxers take advantage of this. Speed may be awesome (35 Tweets an hour, anyone?), but once poorly conceived bilge is out there, well, it&#8217;s out there.</p>
<p>(Full disclosure &#8211; I do make my living connected to print media, although at the digital end of it. Doesn&#8217;t make me delusional , tho.)</p>
<p>Some may sneer at the &#8220;tree based&#8221; media, but one fact remains:  by the very nature of its process, print has a far greater impetus to get things right. When you&#8217;re printing a run of 2.3 million magazines, errors are a lot more difficult (not to say, expensive) to correct. You can&#8217;t just edit in a strikethrough &amp; be done with it. The consequences of haste &amp; rash decisions are far more severe in print. This *could* just result in a lot more thought going into the finished product.</p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t always, mind you &#8211; but I&#8217;d be willing to bet it helps.</p>
<p>In short, take a lesson from Wyile E. Coyote: While that new Acme™ Rocket Pack might seem like the greatest thing ever, just watch out for the edge of the cliff&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: MadScientist</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/27/crumbling-media/#comment-156795</link>
		<dc:creator>MadScientist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2009 06:17:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/27/crumbling-media/#comment-156795</guid>
		<description>Ho-hum.  There seems to be some sort of religious following of &#039;Nature&#039;.  I&#039;ve often complained about the non-reviewed articles that are often presented - like that one about 10 years or so ago where someone in India claimed to have a magic fuel plant.  He&#039;d put a few dried leaves into a test tube with water, boil the water, and he magically had so many milliliters of diesel oil.  Now I would expect even a Chem101 flunkee to immediately see that the mass of the fuel exceeds the mass of the leaves by about 1000% - I marvel at a diesel oil that is about 90% H2O and  about 10% complex sugar. So: beware what you read in Nature especially if it&#039;s not a reviewed article.  I laugh at the thought of Nature complaining about science journalism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ho-hum.  There seems to be some sort of religious following of &#8216;Nature&#8217;.  I&#8217;ve often complained about the non-reviewed articles that are often presented &#8211; like that one about 10 years or so ago where someone in India claimed to have a magic fuel plant.  He&#8217;d put a few dried leaves into a test tube with water, boil the water, and he magically had so many milliliters of diesel oil.  Now I would expect even a Chem101 flunkee to immediately see that the mass of the fuel exceeds the mass of the leaves by about 1000% &#8211; I marvel at a diesel oil that is about 90% H2O and  about 10% complex sugar. So: beware what you read in Nature especially if it&#8217;s not a reviewed article.  I laugh at the thought of Nature complaining about science journalism.</p>
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		<title>By: John Paradox</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/27/crumbling-media/#comment-156794</link>
		<dc:creator>John Paradox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2009 03:37:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/27/crumbling-media/#comment-156794</guid>
		<description>From MAX HEADROOM:

Edison Carter (Matt Frewer): When did News become Entertainment?

Murray, his &#039;editor&#039; (Jeffrey Tambor): When it was created?

STILL 20 minutes into the Future....

J/P=?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From MAX HEADROOM:</p>
<p>Edison Carter (Matt Frewer): When did News become Entertainment?</p>
<p>Murray, his &#8216;editor&#8217; (Jeffrey Tambor): When it was created?</p>
<p>STILL 20 minutes into the Future&#8230;.</p>
<p>J/P=?</p>
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