Mars Science Lab gets a name

By Phil Plait | May 27, 2009 10:00 am

The Mars Science Laboratory

The Mars Science Laboratory is an ambitious probe going to Mars in 2011. It’s larger, more complex, and will do broader science than any other spacecraft ever sent to the Red Planet.

And now it has a name! NASA held a contest to find a name for MSL, and sixth grader Clara Ma’s essay convinced them to give it the name Curiosity:

Curiosity is an everlasting flame that burns in everyone’s mind. It makes me get out of bed in the morning and wonder what surprises life will throw at me that day. Curiosity is such a powerful force. Without it, we wouldn’t be who we are today. [...] Curiosity is the passion that drives us through our everyday lives. We have become explorers and scientists with our need to ask questions and to wonder. Sure, there are many risks and dangers, but despite that, we still continue to wonder and dream and create and hope. We have discovered so much about the world, but still so little. We will never know everything there is to know, but with our burning curiosity, we have learned so much.

Hmmm, sounds like Clara has a good career ahead of her as a science blogger.

I approve of this name (barring the fact that I cannot seem to type it correctly on my first attempt no matter how hard I try). While it may sound a little awkward at first, so did Spirit and Opportunity, and those names eventually settled in to fit the two rovers on Mars. Curiosity is a name that nestles in with the others, and of course does perfectly represent why we’re doing this in the first place.

It’s nice to know there are young folks out there with the same passion I had when I was their age. Passion and curiosity will be what propel us to the stars, and it will be people like Clara who take us there.

CATEGORIZED UNDER: Cool stuff, NASA, Space

Comments (80)

  1. Matt

    She’s the daughter of Stephen Colbert (kidding).

  2. Passion and curiosity will be what propel us to the stars

    So, a rocket will be named Passion, and it and the MSL will propel us to the stars? How can a rover propel us? It must have a hefty catapulting arm. That’s it. ;)

  3. Murff

    “Curiosity is an everlasting flame that burns in everyone’s mind.” Pretty good for a sixth grader! Someday she’ll probably walk on Mars :)

  4. I would like to propose “Curie” as its nickname in honor of Marie Curie.

  5. Mchl

    Aww… again Serenity didn’t make it… (wonder if they even read my proposal)

    Anyhow, Curiosity sounds fine to me. It has this Spirit of Opportunity in it.

    [edit]

    And I wholeheartedly approve of nicknaming it Mme Curie

  6. Nevy

    A very well-written piece for someone her age!

  7. Chris

    When I said this on the news, I thought WTF? Then I saw who wrote it and their age and now it makes sense.

  8. Winter Solstice Man

    How about honoring some of the lesser-known scientists who made both understanding the Red Planet and for this rover to get there possible?

    I for one am tired of this PC campaign with cutesy names for major important science missions. Jesus, I’m surprised she didn’t call it My Pretty Pony or Hanna Montana.

    Do I sound like a stick in the mud? Good!

    Maybe next time, astronomers of the past – but I doubt it.

  9. It`s a good thing there are no cats on Mars. We`d never hear the end of it if Curiosity ran over one..

  10. Ron Carlson

    This young lady writes better than many adults!

  11. scotth

    How cool would it be if either Spirit or Opportunity survive until Curiosity arrives?

    They are so far out of the warrantee period, who knows how long they might actually last.

  12. sophia8

    “Do I sound like a stick in the mud? Good!”
    Mind you don’t catch your ego in the door on the way out.

  13. Given the outrageous success of the previous hyperexpensive Mars lab (none at all), one would do better to christen the new best-intentioned failure “Heteroskedasticity” and expect NASA sterilization procedures prequalify it for further recursions.

    NASA is ET NIH. The intellectual fury of its employment sums to buried archives patiently awaiting decay. What are Charles Bolden’s qualifications to head NASA? He is innocent of science and untutored in administering anything larger than a tailgate party. He’s a thumb puppet put in charge of thumbs. Thumbs up!

  14. Adam

    Wow… I have hope for our future now. If some 6th graders can still imagine like that and envision a future fueled by curiosity, then I can hold out some hope. I only hope that the “system” doesn’t drill the curiosity and imagination out of her.

  15. Curiosity beat its competitor, The Cat, hands down! In fact, one could say it killed the competition. :-)

    *Runs away before the tomatos start flying.*

  16. WOW!!! I thought, ‘Huh?’, when I saw the name, but read her essay! This is wonderful!

    Just wondering if this rover has a new life detecting analyzer as part of its suite of experiments?

    @Adam: I just read an interesting post about the average age of NASA employees. During the Apollo years, 28. During the Shuttle Era, 42. You tell me if this is a sign of hope for future scientists and explorers???

  17. I’m sure she’s a nice kid. I like the essay & I like the name suggestion too.
    Don’t get me wrong.

    I don’t think she wrote it.

    I’ve got 2 daughters and have hung out with lots of 6th graders and I’ve yet to encounter one who can even remotely come close to writing that well.
    Let’s just say I’m skeptical, K?

  18. Winter Solstice Man

    Well, Sophia8, so not liking a hokey name for an important space mission is egotistical? Wow, ya learn something new every day.

    And PS, the name still sucks.

    On another note, I am surprised the anti-nuke forces aren’t flipping out over that big gray radioactive cylinder sticking out of MSL’s metallic butt.

  19. I like this name a lot; it’s the very essence of science. Kids say the darndest things! ;-)

  20. Winter Solstice Man, if she’d named it “My Pretty Pony” or some such, her essay wouldn’t have been the one chosen. Naming a mission after past scientists is fine too, but Curiosity isn’t “cutesy” – it epitomizes what science is all about and is a perfect choice for a mission that does science on a distant planet. Isn’t curiosity the entire reason we’re sending missions there in the first place?

    Richard Drumm, I don’t think skepticism is warranted here. I don’t know about your daughters and their 6th grade friends, but spend some time listening to them and looking at their work and you might be surprised. My daughter is in 6th grade, she’s a heavy writer, and she writes stuff like this all the time (maybe she gets her writing skills from her dad? I’d like to think so… ;-) Her friends do lots of very talented things – some are great writers, some are great at art, some are great on musical instruments. Never discount what “little” kids can do.

    Case in point: 11-year-old girl on the keyboards. Playing Rush’s “YYZ” – all of it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XsYuHbXZUk

    I’d call that “extraordinary”, but actually there are at least two kids in my daughter’s class who can play the piano just as well, so I don’t think it’s all that rare. One kid from my daughter’s school played Mozart in the most recent talent show, and not in “kid-like stop and start” style but very well, as good as most adults…and he was a 7-year-old second grader.

  21. OtherRob

    I don’t think she wrote it.

    I’m willing to bet she came up with the name and wrote down her thoughts as a first draft and then had her folks or a teacher help with the revision. Heck, I’m willing to bet that even Phil had an editor for DftS. ;)

  22. Honestly, I think NASA just thinks up a name and picks the essay that best fits their reasoning.

    Personally I would have named it The Inquisimobile.

  23. Charles Boyer

    “Gort” (the original, not the remake one) headed my list, followed by ” Marvin the Paranoid Android” (from the TV series.)

    “On another note, I am surprised the anti-nuke forces aren’t flipping out over that big gray radioactive cylinder sticking out of MSL’s metallic butt.”

    They have been, albeit quietly, for years.

  24. Hoonser

    Curiosity? Really? That’s an awful name.
    I’m sure somebody must have submitted an essay about Leif Ericson. When’s he gonna get his recognition from NASA?

  25. Savino

    So many brilliant minds in Nasa, and they cant came up with a good name!

    Curiosity, opportunity, tranquility…. such stupid names…

    Pheonix was a nice one, even spirit was better than those!

  26. I think the name will catch on eventually. It’ll be a good one.

    Wikipedia (I know I know but it seems legit) has a really cool page on what this mission is all about. This robot is absolutely loaded with goodies. It’s an advancement in basically every way (cameras, instrumentation, computers, etc) over Spirit and Opportunity.

    I think it also has the scariest but most amazing entry/descent plan ever thought up.

  27. @Hoonser- I am so with you on having one named after Leif!

    I still get antsy on Columbus day….

  28. gar

    She gets a trip to JPL for coming up with the winning name, I read. That’s great! I think I visited JPL when I was around that age. Hope she has an excellent time.

  29. Jules

    For those who don’t think she wrote this because of her age, I wonder if that is more a comment your close-mindedness when it comes to children’s abilities or a statement on your education system. My youngest is in grade 4 and could write that well if not better. (yes that is an anecdote and not science I am well aware, however…)

    Frankly, I think she did write it and she did a marvelous job of it. And so it is not a scientific name in the sense of its not Pythagoras. However, all great scientists are propelled by curiosity, so it fits.

  30. Trebuchet

    “Curiosity” is not bad but I have to admit I personally favor the Japanese approach of not applying a name until the spacecraft has at least reached orbit. Somehow might make you feel better if something goes wrong, I guess.

  31. Torbjörn Larsson, OM

    I thought evolution drove curiosity – turns out it’s an RTG!

    the outrageous success of the previous hyperexpensive Mars lab (none at all)

    Huh? As these things goes, Phoenix was AFAIU on the cheap and met tremendous success despite the occasional hick-up (say, sticky soil when wet). Ice, alkaline pH, energy sources (perchlorates) and even liquid water brines that extremophiles presumably can live in.

    The only thing I think it got wrong was its apparent inability to test for metabolic fossils such as light carbon fractionation in any organics. (As it seems it burned any and all organics with the unexpected oxidizer perchlorate in the TEGA as reported the other day, but that check is silent on any measurement of CO2 MS peak ratios. Of course, there probably was a hefty inorganic background.) I know, I know, “look for the water”, “go for the cheap”. But still a disappointment on ROI value.

    Curiosity will make up for that. (“The Tunable Laser Spectrometer (TLS) will perform precision measurements of oxygen and carbon isotope ratios in carbon dioxide (CO2) and methane (CH4) in the atmosphere of Mars in order to distinguish between a geochemical and a biological origin.” Wikipedia on MSL. ) Presumably the ExoMars will too. (At least it has a laser desorption module with a high precision ion trap MS. Wikipedia on ExoMars.)

  32. Charles Boyer

    double comment deleted.

  33. Charles Boyer

    “I’m sure somebody must have submitted an essay about Leif Ericson. When’s he gonna get his recognition from NASA?”

    Why not name it after the Pinzon brothers (Martin Alonso and Vicente) or Zhu Di, for that matter?

    Because Curiosity is non-controversial, easy-to-remember and is relatively unique from a historical perspective. Curiosity is designed to MAKE history so those criteria make decent sense.

    As was Eagle, the name of the Apollo 11 LEM.

    Or Friendship 7, the first American manned craft to orbit the Earth.

    NASA is not an honorarium society. It only needs to not offend anyone, which by reading from the comments in this thread, it apparently has because NASA didn’t meet some commentator’s idea of what to name the probe.

  34. @Cheyenne

    I am so with you on having one named after Leif!

    Wait…having something named after a human explorer? You feeling okay?

    (I kid.) :)

  35. Winter Solstice Man

    I agree with those who say that essay was probably “helped” a lot by her mommy and daddy. And let us be honest here, being an Asian female didn’t hurt her chances, either. If you think that is bull, you have never worked for the PR divisions of the government or higher education.

    I want to call the next space probe to Mars Jesus Christ, so that if something goes wrong the engineers can yell “Jesus Christ!” and nobody will know that anything is wrong.

    Or how about Happy Fluffy Bunny!

    Or Megan Fox, so when millions of guys Google that name they’ll get a lot of images of the space probe – just before they throw their coffee cups into the screen.

  36. Matt T

    The only problem is that all of the probes should be called Curiosity. Her reasoning is fine, I just don’t see why this one specifically is Curiosity but the others are something else.

    @ Romeo, Pundit et al
    Looking at it, Curiosity does look a bit like an alien cat…

    @ Solstice Man
    How about “Who”? (or Hu or similar). Get a “Who’s on first/Mars” routine going.

  37. Winter Solstice Man

    Abbott and Costello did once almost go to Mars, so that would be appropriate.

    More names: Moe, Larry, and Curly. Nyuk, nyuk.

    Groucho, Harpo, Chico, Zeppo….

  38. Wow, bashing a 6th grader, real nice. What’s next going to steal candy from a baby?

    Argue about the merits of the name, leave the kid out of it unless you want to make yourself look like a real ass.

  39. Mighty T

    “I agree with those who say that essay was probably “helped” a lot by her mommy and daddy. And let us be honest here, being an Asian female didn’t hurt her chances, either.”

    Not only have you gone out of your way to insult 6th grader, you’ve also managed to undermine her work – saying she was given special treatment – and been racist all at once. That’s a friggin’ trifecta you’ve worked up there, son.

    Yeah, I’m seriously calling you out on this sort of BS because I don’t think it has any place in these comments or any others for that matter. Other people present dissenting viewpoints and did it respectfully, you’re whining about special treatment because of her being an Asian.

    Bravo, big man, bravo.

  40. @ Uncle Al, #13

    Say what the hé?

    Have you read the guy’s bio?

    How could a test pilot slash astronaut be “innocent of science?”
    And how could the former Deputy Commander of the US Forces in Japan (that’s 33,000 troops BTW) be “untutored in administering anything larger than a tailgate party?”

    What’s your problem, dude? Jealous?

  41. fizzyb

    After reading some of the comments here, I’m ready to sign up for Mars colonization.

  42. To all those saying that they don’t think this 6th grader wrote it, bear in mind that the majority of general literature (newspapers, television, etc.) is written around the 5th-6th grade reading level. Now, this does not prove that she wrote it, but it always astounds me at how adults regularly underestimate kids.

  43. Jules

    @Todd W Maybe their issue is that they could never come up with anything nearly as well spoken or creative and are thus deflecting.

    I don’t know if it is something in the water these days, but it appears to me some of the comments are getting nastier for no reason in particular. It is like people are trying to find something to criticize (the use of the word skeptic on another blog) instead of debating the merits of the blog material itself. I am boggled by this. We are very privileged to be invited into these blogs and allowed to comment and it amazes me the number of people who abuse this privilege by being so nasty and finding the smallest detail to rip apart and insult. Boggled my brain is by this phenom.

    As another poster said, debate the merits of the name, do not beat up on a 11/12 year old who isn’t even here to defend herself!

  44. EJ

    @35 – WSM – you’re a racist pig.

    Leif Ericson fans, you already had Viking, so pipe down.

  45. USS Kevin

    I don’t care who did or chose the name Curiousity, I think it just sounds corny.

    My name for the Mars rover would be 42.

  46. Utakata

    Least it doesn’t sound like it was phrased in a George W. Bush war room this time.

  47. «bønez_brigade»

    Curiosity is a name that nestles in with the others,

    Nah, not so much. Methinks this new name will get applied more to the look of the rover, itself — like the Atlanta Olympic mascot Whatizit/Izzy (as a somewhat goofy-looking curiosity, that is) — by the media & public.

    and of course does perfectly represent why we’re doing this in the first place.

    Now, with that, I agree. However, I’ll just stick with calling it MSL.

  48. @fizzyb: I was thinking a Golgafrinchan B Ark would be a smarter option. ;)

  49. Brian

    The only criticism I have about the name Curiosity is that it could have been applied equally well to every single space probe we’ve ever launched, and probably many more in the future. Otherwise I think it’s a perfect name. While I like the names Spirit and Opportunity well enough, for a Mars probe Curiosity is both more honest and less pompous.

    Curiosity is one of humanity’s great saving graces. I think it’s great that we openly acknowledge that curiosity is reason enough for going to Mars.

  50. Scotty Evans

    I think there right, we need to name some stuff after real people, scientists and astronomers..

    maybe Cassini?? uh, no, thats on the way to Saturn….

    how about Hubble! he was an astronomer… oh, wait.. I think I heard something about a Telescope with a name like that in the news….

    and wasn’t there something we tossed out into space a while back called Galileo or something like that???

    Magellan??? wait, one sec… nope, he got sent to some place called Venus…

    I got it! Chandra… oh, wait? whats Elliptical Orbit?? seems there is Solar X-Ray observatory named Chandra in one of those.

    and I’m saving Enterprise and Serenity for the next shuttle fleet (if we ever get a new one)

  51. This is the best name for a rover, ever.

    One day, when it finds something cool, we can all say “Curiosity found it!”

  52. fizzyb

    @Celsius1414 – I have my towel, and I never panic. :)

  53. Winter Solstice Man

    Hey, Scotty – do a little homework and you will find a lot of astronomers who did a lot for our knowledge of Mars that deserve to have had their name on MSL and not that PC nonsense word.

  54. Torbjörn Larsson, OM

    @ Matt T:

    why this one

    “There can be only one.”

    @ EJ:

    you already had Viking

    What? I’m mostly one myself. [Word of advice: Keep your fair maidens away from me. And your gold.] So that can’t be unique.

  55. Curiosity is the perfect name for it. Fits right in with Spirit and Opportunity (which both seemed clunky at first, but did indeed settle in just fine.)

    Maybe a little more of this inspirational naming will encourage more interest in science by the general public.

  56. Brian

    BTW, did anyone else get a mental image of the engineers powering up Curiosity for its first self-test, and hearing the rover exclaim: “Who are you? What’s that? What is that? What’s that over there? Hey! That thing has numbers on it! …”

  57. Yikes! I’ve unwittingly ignited a firestorm!
    For that I’m sorry. I’ve been Mr. Grumpy Gills this last week due to losing a huge career opportunity.
    Again, I’m sure she’s a nice kid (ALL kids are nice kids), I like the essay (I’m envious as he double hockey sticks that I didn’t write it) & I like the name suggestion too.
    Girl’s got some serious chops.

  58. MathMike

    I just saw an interview with the girl on NASA TV. She was just as thoughtful when answering the questions. One downer, she’s lived her whole life in Kansas. I hope she can make it through school without having her curiosity crushed by some creatard.

  59. JB of Brisbane

    @Hoonser and all the Leif Ericson pundits -

    Do you mean Eric the Red’s son, or the guy who starred in “The High Chapparal”?

    As for my choice, being Australian I was going to suggest Bruce…

  60. MadScientist

    @JB: The problem with “Bruce” is that we’d have to name all future probes “Bruce” just to keep things clear. Besides, I’m sure Rules #1,3,5 and 7 would all be violated so “Bruce” just won’t do.

    @Todd W.: I agree; I’ve met some great kids. It’s sad that we seem to be expecting kids to be morons these days and that most kids shows are made for mindless parrots. It’s always good to see there are still intelligent kids out there.

    @Scotty #50: “Enterprise” is already taken – that was the test model for the space shuttles (renamed retrospectively in a competition). It was not a “flight model” though (never intended to be sent into space). So the best you can do is “Enterprise 2″ and somehow that just doesn’t sound so cool.

  61. EJ

    @54 Torbjörn Larsson,

    Eh forget it, I had a detailed rebuttal to the white supremacists on this thread, they find everything on the web and try to troll it, but seems they’ve gone away, anyhow enjoy your umlauts and your whiteness.

  62. Rowan Bulpit

    Aww, I thought the titles said “Mad Science Lab..”, and I was all ready to break out my best mad scientist laugh.

  63. Robert T.

    Curiosity is a good name. The probes need names that will carry the scientific inspiration to a higher level. As such, I think Inspiration would also be fitting as a name.

  64. @44 (& 61): EJ: And you’re calling names, so you’re not one inch better than the ones you’re criticizing. Perhaps even worse, because you also jump to conclusions: Where you see racism, all I see is cynicism. It’s almost like you’re indirectly pulling a Godwin here (click my name if you don’t know what I mean by “a Godwin”). Can you say self-righteous? What about double standards?

  65. I take it that all the brilliant essays promoting “white elephant” were politely laid aside.

  66. Robert T.

    @60 MadScientist:

    The name Enterprise has been taken? How about Gumption? :)

  67. The perfect name for a rover: Fido! Hehehe.

  68. Joe Meils

    I caught the video interview of Clara Ma, who submitted this winning essay, on the NASA channel. The usual bits about how and why she came to write it weren’t all that interesting. But when they got to a clip where she said that she often went outside to look up at the stars, and wished she could be there to see them up close… I just had to smile. One little girl has the fire within her!

  69. Peachy

    “[Curiosity] makes me get out of bed in the morning”

    Ah, the energy of youth. What makes me get out of bed in the morning is a very loud alarm clock eight inches from my head. And a full bladder.

    @ 60.MadScientist: “Enterprise 2″ would be a silly name. “Enterprise B” is much better.

  70. a lurker

    With a name like “Curiosity” that rover should be safe from budget cutters in Washington D.C. who would not want the death of curiosity blamed on them. ;-)

    Lets not hope that NASA does not accidentally blow the probe up.

  71. Cheyenne

    @EJ- “I had a detailed rebuttal to the white supremacists on this thread”. Do you still have it? I think that would be wonderful to read. Or did you maybe never have one and you’re a bit of an overreaching drama queen?

  72. bradley547

    I’m thinking the name is a bit cheesy. And what was wrong with MSL anyway?
    It makes sense to name it if there’s more than one, but since this is a single unit there’s really no need to differentiate it.

    On the other hand I think it’s awesomely cool that the people who build and control it can now say they work in the Curiosity Shop!

  73. USS Kevin

    Lunar Orbiter, Mars Observer, Mars Reconnaisance Orbiter, Lunar Reconnaisance Orbiter – that’s all the name those probes ever got and they do the job just fine.

    I will only be referring to the rover as the Mars Science Laboratory or MSL, not Curiousity. And before any PC types go nuts on me, this is NOT an attack on the person who named it, okay, only the name itself.

  74. Just keep it away from the cat.

    What’s wrong with MSL is that it’s a TLA that identifies not the object in question but rather its function. Suppose we want to put another Science Lab on Mars. Do we need to cook up another TLA based on a different function name for it? Do we just call it MSL-2?

    Imagine if NCC-1701 USS Enterprise had instead been named LREV(A) — Long Range Exploration Vessel (Armed) with some number or other tacked on, since it clearly wasn’t the first of its kind.

    Doesn’t have quite the same ring to it, does it?

    All the cool probes have names.

    Our probes had always had names before we started tacking TLAs on them. Does noone remember Mariner (x)? Pioneer (x)? Viking (x)? Voyager (x)?

    Curiosity is a fine name, and you kids can get off my lawn. Hooligans.

  75. Flying sardines

    @ # 56. Brian :

    BTW, did anyone else get a mental image of the engineers powering up Curiosity for its first self-test, and hearing the rover exclaim: “Who are you? What’s that? What is that? What’s that over there? Hey! That thing has numbers on it! …”

    I didn’t but I do now! ;-)

    LOL! :-D

    @ #76 JediBear :

    Do I remember ‘Voyager’ ? Do I ever! It changed my life and absolutely inspired me, esp.the 1989 Neptune fly-by! Yes, I do kind of prefer the old style names like ‘Mariner’, ‘Pioneer’, etc .. but ‘Curiousity’ is good too.. & it sure beats any bland acronymn like MSL in my view. :-)

  76. Grand Lunar

    The world needs more people like Clara.
    I hope she retains her appearent passion for space exploration. And I hope others in her generation will join in.

  77. Let me remind you, folks, of a little item from history. Back in 1930, a certain Mr. Tombaugh discovered a certain object, which for the next 76 years would be regarded as the ninth planet. During the debate on what to call it ( the discovering observatory had the right, in pre-IAU days ), the name Pluto was first suggested by one Venetia Burney, of Oxford, England – AGED 11. Her grandfather passed on her idea, with her valid reasons for it, to an Oxford professor of astronomy, who in turn passed it on to Lowell Observatory – and the rest is history.
    ( Sure, naming the planet Pluto was a fairly natural and logical extension of the existing nomenclature, and could have been thought of by anyone with a knowledge of Greek-Roman mythology – but the fact remains that Venetia thought of it first. )
    Therefore, why should we be so surprised, in the present day, that a 12-year-old is capable of thinking up a name for a space probe??? ( Yes, of course the name “Curiosity” COULD have been applied to any previous probe – but the simple fact is that it WASN’T. It’s only in the last few years that NASA has invited the public to suggest names. )
    Why does this fact have to lead to ridiculous sniping comments, such as “someone else wrote the essay for her”, “given special treatment because she’s Asian”, and such garbage? Perhaps those commenters are just jealous, because Clara is smarter than their own kids?
    To me, this girl represents a small ray of hope – a revelation that there ARE still children in the world who are not foul-mouthed juvenile delinquents, and who realise that there is more to life than playing stupid computer games, wearing the “right” trainers and owning the latest trendy model of mobile phone! And furthermore, there are still some who are actually capable of writing coherent English, instead of “text-ese” gibberish! ( Some of the teenage morons in my neighbourhood are barely capable of SPEAKING a coherent sentence, let alone WRITING one! )
    As for the “white supremacist” bigots; if it’s necessary to look to ethnic communities to FIND such a ray of hope, then perhaps that tells you something about your own dumbed-down culture, and the way your own kids are being brought up and “educated”…
    Incidentally, Venetia Phair, nee Burney, died just a couple of weeks ago, aged 90. I dread to think what she would have made of some of the aforementioned comments here.

  78. Heyy that thing looks so awsome now I want to go to marc

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