It has been pointed out dozens of times to deaf ears, that corporations would make tons more money treating diseases, not preventing them.

Well of course. You’ve got the wrong conspiracy theory.

Try this one:

Yes, Big Pharma(TM) makes more money treating diseases than preventing them. Now, Big Pharma(TM) knows this very well. So who are they going to pay?

Right. Jenny McCarthy is a shill for Big Pharma(TM)!

“hmmm…advice from a mother who did “research” OR advice from an HMO doctor…

I’M SCREWED EITHER WAY”

PS Love the new edit feature. First time to test it, and it works great

He also posts on ScienceBasedMedicine, and he has a very good post today:
dub dub dub dot sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=516

Tha majority is from Big Pharma which wants every1 shot up.

Your evidence for this? “Big Pharma^TM” would stand to make significantly more money selling products that treat the diseases once people got them than they would from vaccines that prevent the diseases.

Parent’s word beats science. Parents are the 1 interacting with their kids daily.

Parents are also biased observers. Their observations are clouded by emotion and I’d wager that most do not have the skills to instate proper controls to rule out their own biases, not to mention the myriad of other variables that they probably aren’t even paying attention to, let alone being able to examine their kids’ genes. I’d also add that as a matter of ethics, scientists are not allowed to be on an IRB (Institutional Review Board) for their own studies, that using their own relatives on either the IRB or as subjects is questionable, that using the relatives of IRB members as study subjects is also a no-no. Why? Because it introduces elements of bias and conflicts of interest. The Geiers (maybe you’ve heard of them) are pretty notorious for such violations of study ethics.

Oh, but if parents’ words beat science, then I can find several parents in past threads here on BA who have autistic kids who either did not have their kid vaccinated (and yet they still got autism) as well as those whose kids were autistic before any vaccines. Lots of parents of autistic kids understand that vaccines do not cause autism.

It doesnt increase infection risk. If that were the case y even wait until age 2? Y not shoot em up right after they’re snatched from the womb?

First off, the risk of infection does increase. Full immunity is unlikely until all doses have been administered. The longer you draw out the process, the greater the risk of infection.

As for why not immunize them right out of the womb? For diseases like measles, the infants immune system is not developed enough to produce memory cells, so the vaccine would be useless for long-term immunity. Further, the infants gets some (not complete) protection through breast milk for short-term protection. The reason we give kids HepB shots right away is because the antibodies are not passed through the breast milk, so the child needs short-term protection, provided by the vaccine. Furthermore, if the mother is positive for HepB, she can pass the disease on to her child.

I hope that clears up why some vaccines are given right at birth, while others are not.

I bet u all parents wont mind coming 9x if that will make autism not a factor. O come on. If the millions on a daily basis antigens r more dangerous than those toxis needles we;d all live in bubbles.

WRONG. Again, Y shoot up kids with 3 viruses at once? Y risk it? There is all this negative reaction & affects to out children yet still the CDC & Big Pharma dont care bc they ‘re makin millions.

My point was to show that children are exposed to millions of antigens every day. Their immune system can tolerate quite a bit. And their systems (on average) can easily tolerate a few weakened measles virus, whereas the fully virulent wild virus would wreak havoc on their systems. The risk of encephalitis from MMR is 1 in a million. The risk of encephalitis from wild measles is 1 in 1,000. Risk of death from wild measles is 2 in 1,000.

That aside, take a look at the studies that Chris provided. There’s a lot there showing that MMR does not cause autism, despite what parents might believe. What it shows is that when controls are put in place to rule out other variables that parents don’t account for, there is no link.

You may also like to take a look over at skeptic.com and read Dr. Harriet Hall’s article about the vaccine-autism fallacy.

http://www.smh.com.au/national/parents-guilty-of-manslaughter-over-daughters-eczema-death-20090605-bxvx.html

Its a very difficult thing for a parent to face the unknown when it comes to the safety of their children. It is human nature to grasp desperately onto what you “want” to believe in. In the case of vaccination it would be so simple and convenient if we could just stop vaccinating and the whole autism thing would just vanish. It is so compelling a desire for a simple solution for the thousands of parents dealing with an autistic child that to have a celebrity hand you the answer on a silver platter is enough to likely create a kind of exhilarated hope that we might be on our way to the final answer and cure.

If science came forward with a treatment for autism this would go away overnight, in the absence of that we must continue to create a stark emotional “story” to sway those who have followed the route to a supposed easy solution. When Jenny McCarthy says heartless things about the soul leaving the eyes of her autistic child, she reaches deeply into the anguish of parents who have lost the precious intimacy of their child and who yet retain little if no hope of ever restoring it. Science offers more hope to these people if they could only see it.

If they could walk away from believing that their anguished child is “soulless” and instead respond to them as beings terribly trapped inside their own minds, there are therapies and solutions under research that are already helping and more on the way. Yet another consequence of the “vaccines cause autism” belief system is to reject autistic children as systemically and permanently damaged, and liberating responsibility from parents and others for pushing forward with a genuine solution. How much more money should be wasted proving over and over that vaccines are NOT the cause? We can prevent and cure this disease, I have faith in science, over time, to liberate families from this tragic condition.

In short, my son had seizures before he was a week old (he spent a week in the hospital, this was before both the HepB an Hib vaccines were available). He also ended up in the hospital after a seizure while suffering from a now vaccine preventable disease. He is twenty years old and still disabled.

Here is a list of book that lilkunta should read:

Fiction
“The Silent Boy” by Lois Lowry
“The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime” by Mark Haddon
“The Speed of Dark” by Elizabeth Moon (whose adult son is autistic, she has a blog which can be found by clicking on her website, which is her name with no spaces and www before it and com after it separated by dots).

Non-fiction:
“Unstrange Minds” by Roy Grinker (also has a website, “unstrange”… his high school daughter is autistic)
“No Time for Jello” by Berneen Bratt
“Anthropologist on Mars” by Oliver Sacks

And my sitting in moderation ether comment ends with:
The science has been done, the link between vaccines and autism does not exist. It is a dead link… “It’s not pinin’! ‘It’s passed on! This link is no more! It has ceased to be! It’s expired and gone to meet its maker! It’s a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! If you hadn’t nailed it to the perch it’d be pushing up the daisies! Its metabolic processes are now ‘istory! It’s off the twig! It’s kicked the bucket, it’s shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin’ choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-LINK!! ” (hat-tip to Monty Python and the dead parrot sketch)

There are other kinds of disability, and autism is mild compared to the one in a thousand who become deaf from mumps, or the one in a thousand who get measles who die! Are you in the silly group that thinks it is better to have a dead child than an autistic child? (if you are, become familiar with the folks at the Autistic Self Advocacy Network, including Ari Ne’eman). You might try reading this paper called Impact of Specific Medical Interventions on Reducing the Prevalence of Mental Retardation.

You trying to second guess Ms. McCarthy’s motivations (oh, and the quote is on the top this page, try reading it!). Don’t even try to tell me about seizures. My son had seizures when he was a newborn, less than a week after he was born (and no vaccines given), he also had seizures later when he was very sick with a now vaccine preventable disease. So don’t play the “oh, Jen’s boy had seizures… you don’t know what it is like!” card with me. It does not work, especially since my son is still disabled twenty year old who has other health issues that make him vulnerable to disease.

Here is the science about the MMR (I would suggest you read the biography of the man responsible for it, Maurice Hilleman — it would be good for a book report when you back to school next fall), your local librarian can help you get access to read them (some are fully online):

Lack of Association between Measles Virus Vaccine and Autism with Enteropathy:
A Case-Control Study. Hornig M et al. PLoS ONE 2008; 3(9):
e3140 doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0003140 *Subjects: 25 children with
autism and GI disturbances and 13 children with GI disturbances alone
(controls)

Measles Vaccination and Antibody Response in Autism Spectrum Disorders.
Baird G et al. Arch Dis Child 2008; 93(10):832-7. Subjects: 98
vaccinated children aged 10-12 years in the UK with autism spectrum
disorder (ASD); two control groups of similar age: 52 children with special
educational needs but no ASD and 90 children in the typically developing
group

MMR-Vaccine and Regression in Autism Spectrum Disorders: Negative
Results Presented from Japan. Uchiyama T et al. J Autism Dev Disord
2007; 37(2):210-7 *Subjects: 904 children with autism spectrum disorder
(Note: MMR was used in Japan only between 1989 and 1993.)

No Evidence of Persisting Measles Virus in Peripheral Blood Mononuclear
Cells from Children with Autism Spectrum Disorder. D’Souza Y et
al. Pediatrics 2006; 118(4):1664-75 *Subjects: 54 children with autism
spectrum disorder and 34 developmentally normal children

Immunizations and Autism: A Review of the Literature. Doja A, Roberts
W. Can J Neurol Sci. 2006; 33(4):341-6 *Literature review

Pervasive Developmental Disorders in Montreal, Quebec, Canada:
Prevalence and Links with Immunizations. Fombonne E et al. Pediatrics.
2006;118(1):e139-50 *Subjects: 27,749 children born from 1987 to
1998 attending 55 schools

Relationship between MMR Vaccine and Autism. Klein KC, Diehl EB.
Ann Pharmacother. 2004; 38(7-8):1297-300 *Literature review of 10
studies

Immunization Safety Review: Vaccines and Autism. Institute of Medicine.
The National Academies Press: 2004 (w w w . nap.edu/books/030909237X/
html) *Literature review

MMR Vaccination and Pervasive Developmental Disorders: A Case-
Control Study. Smeeth L et al. Lancet 2004; 364(9438):963-9 *Subjects:
1294 cases and 4469 controls

Age at First Measles-Mumps-Rubella Vaccination in Children with Autism
and School-Matched Control Subjects: A Population-Based Study
in Metropolitan Atlanta. DeStefano F et al. Pediatrics 2004; 113(2): 259-
66 *Subjects: 624 children with autism and 1,824 controls

Prevalence of Autism and Parentally Reported Triggers in a North East
London Population. Lingam R et al. Arch Dis Child 2003; 88(8):666-70
*Subjects: 567 children with autistic spectrum disorder

Neurologic Disorders after Measles-Mumps-Rubella Vaccination. Makela
A et al. Pediatrics 2002; 110:957-63 *Subjects: 535,544 children vaccinated
between November 1982 and June 1986 in Finland

A Population-Based Study of Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccination
and Autism. Madsen KM et al. N Engl J Med 2002; 347(19):1477-82
*Subjects: All 537,303 children born 1/91–12/98 in Denmark

Relation of Childhood Gastrointestinal Disorders to Autism: Nested
Case Control Study Using Data from the UK General Practice Research
Database. Black C et al. BMJ 2002; 325:419-21 *Subjects: 96 children
diagnosed with autism and 449 controls

Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccination and Bowel Problems or Developmental
Regression in Children with Autism: Population Study. Taylor
B et al. BMJ 2002; 324(7334):393-6 *Subjects: 278 children with
core autism and 195 with atypical autism

No Evidence for a New Variant of Measles-Mumps-Rubella-Induced
Autism. Fombonne E et al. Pediatrics 2001;108(4):E58 *Subjects: 262
autistic children (pre- and post-MMR samples)

Measles-Mumps-Rubella and Other Measles-Containing Vaccines Do
Not Increase the Risk for Inflammatory Bowel Disease: A Case-Control
Study from the Vaccine Safety Datalink Project. Davis RL et al. Arch Pediatr
Adolesc Med 2001;155(3):354-9 *Subjects: 155 persons with IBD
with up to 5 controls each

Time Trends in Autism and in MMR Immunization Coverage in California.
Dales L et al. JAMA 2001; 285(9):1183-5 *Subjects: Children
born in 1980-94 who were enrolled in California kindergartens (survey
samples of 600–1,900 children each year)

Mumps, Measles, and Rubella Vaccine and the Incidence of Autism Recorded
by General Practitioners: A Time Trend Analysis. Kaye JA et al.
BMJ 2001; 322:460-63 *Subjects: 305 children with autism

Further Evidence of the Absence of Measles Virus Genome Sequence in
Full Thickness Intestinal Specimens from Patients with Crohn’s Disease.
Afzal MA, et al. J Med Virol 2000; 62(3):377-82 *Subjects: Specimens
from patients with Crohn’s disease

Autism and Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccine: No Epidemiological
Evidence for a Causal Association. Taylor B et al. Lancet 1999;353
(9169):2026-9 *Subjects: 498 children with autism

Absence of Detectable Measles Virus Genome Sequence in Inflammatory
Bowel Disease Tissues and Peripheral Blood Lymphocytes. Afzal MA et
al. J Med Virol 1998; 55(3):243-9 *Subjects: 93 colonoscopic biopsies
and 31 peripheral blood lymphocyte preparations

No Evidence for Measles, Mumps, and Rubella Vaccine-Associated Inflammatory
Bowel Disease or Autism in a 14-year Prospective Study.
Peltola H et al. Lancet 1998; 351:1327-8 *Subjects: 3,000,000 doses of
MMR vaccine

Exposure to Measles in Utero and Crohn’s Disease: Danish Register
Study. Nielsen LL et al. BMJ 1998; 316(7126):196-7 *Subjects: 472
women with measles

Immunocytochemical Evidence of Listeria, Escherichia coli, and Streptococcus
Antigens in Crohn’s Disease. Liu Y et al. Gastroenterology
1995; 108(5):1396-1404 *Subjects: Intestines and mesenteric lymph
node specimens from 21 persons from families with a high frequency of
Crohn’s disease

….

You should get ahead by working on a summer reading program (for FSM’s sake, stay away from talk shows like Larry King, they will destroy your brain!). Some books that you should read include:

Fiction:
The Silent Boy by Lois Lowry
The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Nighttime by Mark Haddon
The Speed of Dark by Elizabeth Moon (who has a blog about autism, w w w . speedofdark-thebook.com/blog/ )

Non-fiction:
Unstrange Minds by Roy Grinker
No Time for Jello by Berneen Bratt
An Anthropologist on Mars by Oliver Sacks

And a bunch more here: w w w . neurodiversity.com/books_recommended.html

Oh, and a reminder: The science has been done, the link between vaccines and autism does not exist. It is a dead link… “It’s not pinin’! ‘It’s passed on! This link is no more! It has ceased to be! It’s expired and gone to meet its maker! It’s a stiff! Bereft of life, it rests in peace! If you hadn’t nailed it to the perch it’d be pushing up the daisies! Its metabolic processes are now ‘istory! It’s off the twig! It’s kicked the bucket, it’s shuffled off its mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin’ choir invisible!! THIS IS AN EX-LINK!! ” (hat-tip to Monty Python and the dead parrot sketch)

& Since 1971 autism has increased. Point 2 evidence, r u serious? WE R TALKING ABOUT AUTISM. THAT is the disability. [Unless u mean diability like paralysis or blindess or deafness].

I dont know y the toxins/virus in MMR r so worse but they r. Until kids start getting autism by just going out & breathing, THAT is y the MMR shots r worse than the bacteria in the air we breathe daily.

I belive Jen isnt anti vac bc on LKing she said she isnt. Your quote is from when (date?). She coulda done more research then changed her stance. 4 ex, she 1st didnt belive Evan was autistic; she said he was a crystal child & shee an indigo ma. Now she accepts that Evan is autistic. Thus @ 1 pt she may have been 100% anti all vacc, but now in the most recent interview I saw ( she was on LKL w her boyf JimCarery & Evan’s Dr ) Jen said she is for a diff scehdule of the shots 2 be given: she doesnt want kids shot w 12 diff things @ 1ce; she wants parents 2 be able 2 say ‘Dr my kids is sick so I want to postpone the shots bc her/his immune system isnt @ 100%’.

Also, Jen isnt claiming. When Evan got shot she said after it he wasnt the same.

I dont know y Jen is saying that Evan started seizing @ 2 when he was shot @ 1.5. Seizures rnt the sole part of autism. In the meantime, btwn 1.5yrs when he was shot & 2yrs when he started seizing Im sure there were other symptoms & behaviours.

I ‘m not basing anything off Wakefield. I belive the millions of parents whose kdi changed after the MMR shot.

Science does not depend on beliefs, but on data.

The MMR has been used in the USA since 1971. If you are an American under the age of 40 you may have had been vaccinated at least once with the MMR. Can you please point to the evidence that shows that millions of Americans have been disabled by the MMR in almost forty years?

Why would a small amount of attenuated virus in a vaccine be worse than the hundreds of viruses and bacteria you breathe in, eat and have other content with through out a typical day?

If you believe Ms. McCarthy is not against vaccines, can you explain to me why she is claiming a vaccine her child received at age 15 months, can cause seizures more than a year later (see quote in blog post at top of page).

The # is millionss. Do the research. Parent’s word beats science. Parents are the 1 interacting with their kids daily. If they say after their kids were shot up they changed, that is what I believe.

Did u read what I posted? If the CDC & Big Pharma really gave a damn, what they ahve to do is easy. Change the schedule & give the MMR shots seperately instead of all @ once. Then if autism diagnosises/incidences dont decrease I’ll join u all in bashing Jen.

I ‘m not basing anything off Wakefield. I belive the millions of parents whose kdi changed after the MMR shot.

No. Jen isnt against vaccines.

And even if that were not true, calling for them to be scheduled further apart does nothing to increase the safety of already safe vaccines. Rather, it puts kids at increased risk of infection, because it leaves them susceptible to infection for a greater period of time.
Not even , it is true. Seperata shots will then either show yes their is a lik or no there isnt. Y not try it? It doesnt increase infection risk. If that were the case y even wait until age 2? Y not shoot em up right after they’re snatched from the womb?

So they only need to come in 3-4 times instead of 9-12. Also keep in mind that kids are exposed to millions of antigens on a daily basis. The breathe them in, absorb them through their skin, swallow them. The vaccines represent a miniscule percentage of what they are exposed to each day.

I bet u all parents wont mind coming 9x if that will make autism not a factor. O come on. If the millions on a daily basis antigens r more dangerous than those toxis needles we;d all live in bubbles.

WRONG. Again, Y shoot up kids with 3 viruses at once? Y risk it? There is all this negative reaction & affects to out children yet still the CDC & Big Pharma dont care bc they ‘re makin millions.