The whole global warming movement is a con. None of the things they say will help will actually have any impact and if global warming folks were intellectually HONEST, they would admit that our energy is better spent redesigning our communities to survive what is coming, in securing our food supply and in NOT meddling with stupid ideas that cost bazillions of dollars and, like the iron in the ocean, actually HURT.

What I have seen of Penn and Teller has not been as you describe. I don’t watch much TV. I have seen their magic show in person and did not see anything like that behavior.

Maybe not exactly but they are pretty close…

Libertarian means respecting personal freedoms and economic freedoms. How does right wing in the extreme respect personal freedoms? It would be just as accurate to say that extreme left wing is pretty close, except for the little part of economic freedoms.

Is it the label of politics that offends you. I see nothing but a criticism of bad politics. Politics that attempts to contradict science, but fails.

@ Rogue,
PP regularly injects politics into his posts. Ask anyone who has been here a while. He’ll even tell you he does.
And I do not consider commenting on the Bible as political. Funny that you would.

The first page had 3 comments on some politicians pretending that science is not real. All because of their misinterpretation of the Bible. And you wrote that you do not consider this political.

The rest is commenting on NASA (2 comments), censorship of science (2 comments), and the post on Independence Day. OK you got me on the Independence Day post. No, that was posted after your comment.

These are posts on science that happen to involve politics. If you do not see the difference, that is not my fault. Perhaps you think that the fault is in your stars.

Whine away. Would you like a tissue?

Any system which is mostly bull is entirely useless.

You mention the effect of the Moon and seasons. People are much better off learning about these things absent the help of ‘mostly bull’ astrology.

I saw the preview last week and made a point of watching.

Penn and Teller are pretty good, but I’d not start worshipping them because of their show.

Magicians are great debunkers. Look at Houdini. They know how easily people can be fooled, and how a lot of people can take advantage of said ease.

Now, as for the libertarian stuff. Yeah, they’re overtly libertarian, but so am I. Penn has said it before – their show is an evangelical show. They’re telling the truth as they see it (albeit with the crack research team they have). Now, if your politics don’t line up with theirs, well, too bad. It’s their show and they can say what they want. The truth as they see it.

@Stevor #45

Penn and Teller are like strong coffee. I happen to like strong coffee.

@StevoR, We should not mock or offend the anti-science mob? Oh my. I have been so, so bad. I have mocked many morons. Whether the mocked morons have been offended, I do not know. Few have been kind enough to provide feedback. I’ll just have to work on my prudishness.

Nice alliteration.

I don’t say the anti-sciencers should never be mocked – & I’ll mock them quite often myself – but there are such a thing as reasonable balance and sublety too. Mocking can be done cleverly and in a way that makes you laugh or it can be done with a sledgehammer and just make folks wince.

Maybe its a matter of personal taste or style but, speaking personally, I don’t find P&T funny but rather way over the top, immature and even outright cruel.

I wouldn’t censor them or you from voicing their / your opinions but I find their style counter-productively, off-puttingly, bullying and I also disagree with much of what they say. Which, I think, is often is more driving their own political agenda rather doing any real skeptical stuff.

As for Penn and Teller, I have not seen much of their stuff.

So .. uh ..you are not a big fan of them either then?

FYI : They’ve done a number of really tasteless & OTT episodes viciously attacking, for instance the Dalai Lama and Mother Teresa in a very biased, cherry-picking and outright mean way. They’ve also done some very pro-guns and anti-environment plus anti-animal rights shows. Now I’m not a huge environmentalist or animal rights person ( a bit of one tho’ I guess) but their attacks on some of the people who are have really turned me right off them. P& T in those eps and others come across as very intolerant, bullying, arrogant and nasty individuals. In My Humble Opinion Naturally.

(Not that the Dalai Lama and Mother Teresa are perfect or beyond reproach but c’mon there are ways and ways of criticising and the approach that P&T took was just vicious, cringe-worthy and unfair.)

There does seem to be some confusion about which politics they are expressing. One criticism is that they are Libertarian, while you suggest that they are right-wing in the extreme. Maybe they do not spend enough time spelling out their political positions, since right-wing in the extreme and Libertarian are not the same thing.

Maybe not exactly but they are pretty close…

IMHON again.

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/category/politics/

Read.

One question I’ve always had about this whole concept of a “skeptical movement” is if people are just saying “pro-science movement”. If it truly is about skepticism then why can’t a skeptical mindset extend into politics? why shouldn’t P&T make arguments for their political views? The thing about politics, however, is that there are no peer reviewed, international, authorities that can judge a solid consensus of politics. You might disagree with their politics but that doesn’t mean they’re any less skeptical. Good science doesn’t make good politics. I don’t believe that the world would be better run by scientists. Politics often comes down to management, compromise and decisions that may take science into account but ultimately are judgments that are beyond the scope of science.

From the sound of many of the comments here it seems as though people want P&T to just be Nova.

The series has slid even further down with the gratuitous use of nudity & obscenities (Oh, wait – They told me how I should feel about those things earlier…) whenever they can’t fill their show with actual, um, content.

When the show first debuted, I thought that it would be great for skepticism. However, it’s actually a libertarian show disguised as a skeptical show. Someone should tell P&T that there’s a huge difference between libertarianism & skepticism because the two don’t mix as well as they think.

They brought me and many of my loved ones to look at things more skeptically. If it weren’t for them, I wouldn’t have even known Phil Plait existed, honestly! They started me down the path of skepticism and looking at things rationally. I dismissed evolution before and accepted silly things, like ghosts and, 9/11 and lunar conspiracy theories! To say they do no help in the skeptic community is irrational and ignorant. Their show is a great way to help younger people, such as myself, to become interested in skepticism. I may not agree with all of their libertarian view points, but that is really for the viewer to decide.
BTW Phil, nice girth on that telescope! I heard it is the width of the mirrors that matter.

We love novelty, and we love attention. Note to aspiring astrologists: tell the subject they aren’t who they appear to be. Note to photographers: select the photo that looks least like the customer: that’s the one they’ll prefer.

We should not mock or offend the anti-science mob?

Oh my. I have been so, so bad. I have mocked many morons. Whether the mocked morons have been offended, I do not know. Few have been kind enough to provide feedback. I’ll just have to work on my prudishness.

As for Penn and Teller, I have not seen much of their stuff. There does seem to be some confusion about which politics they are expressing. One criticism is that they are Libertarian, while you suggest that they are right-wing in the extreme. Maybe they do not spend enough time spelling out their political positions, since right-wing in the extreme and Libertarian are not the same thing.

@Rogue Medic -You realize that their “politics” bleeds rather heavily into their “skepticism,” prompting them to declare things like global warming “antiscientific scaremongering” and the like? And frankly, even when they’re right, I don’t think they’re doing the skeptical community any favors. Their two primary means of “convincing” the audience are yelling at people and mocking people, constructive arguments and supported claims are EXTREMELY few and far between.

I second that.

I find Penn & Teller are often very off-putting and unfunny going out of their way to mock and offend rather than actually argue reasonably. Their political views do seem to unduly affect them & they are right-wing in the extreme.

PS. Did I inadvertantly use an unsayable “bad word” in my first Horror-scopes post (# 35) on this thread? It’s one that we consider very mild & use all the time in Oz but I gather is frowned upon a whole lot more over in the US.

My apologies if I’ve offended and breached the rules & could the moderator please delete only the “rude word” (which isnt that rude anyway) and not the whole post? I’d do it myself but I’m out of editing time and only just remembered how hypocritically prudish some Americans and parts of American culture can be… Sigh.

HORROR-SCOPES :

Aries : Today will be your last day before you are either machine-gunned to death, run over by a truck or eaten alive by bedbugs. Make it a good one.

Aquarius : LOOK OUT!!! LOOK OUT! LOOK OUT! Bugger I just foresaw I will be too late, you’re dead, no need to write anymore .

Pisces : Feeling something’s fishy and rotten smelling? Yes that‘s a harbinger of your imminent demise. Still got to be better than this current incarnation of yours with the only star sign that’s wet, smelly & alcoholic.

Gemini : You or your twin &/or other half will die a particularly nasty, drawn out and agonising death today. My condolences either way.

Leo : Avoid zoo’s, avoid safari parks in Africa and elsewhere, avoid poachers & you’ll be okay. Maybe. If you’re lucky. And quiet. And don’t eat the wrong wildebeest.

Cancer? : Yep. Sorry.

Sad-git-hairy-ass : Enough said.

Libra : Women beware of your tampons today. Men beware of your women! Also avoid scales whether fish, reptilian or measuring- they’ll be bad news for you all month, indeed all your life.

Scorpio : Today you will die in your sleep in the early morning. In fact, you’ll die before you ever get to read this, so why am I bothering to write it?

Virgo? : No, you’re not. Unless you’re very young in which case maybe you are. Anyway, its none of my business. Watch out for Richard Branson as he thinks he owns you. Avoid eating fortune cookies this week and even more so avoid misfortune cookies.

Taurus : Red is not your colour. Beware of matadors or anyone Spanish or non-vegetarian. Avoid china shops, Pamplona & the stock exchange.

Capricorn : Beware the ides of march, the first of the month, the last of the month, the sixteenth, thirteenth , second, third, fourth, fifth, seventh, eighth , tenth, seventeenth, nineteenth and indeed any day of the month with either an ‘e’, ‘a’, or any consonant at all in it.

****
NB. The 13th star sign Ophiuchus (serpent bearer) not included. Seeing as astrological lore holds that Ophuichans are sceptical, logical thinkers who don’t believe in superstitious mumbo-jumbo that’s just as well really.

PS. Yeah I know the “bulls hate red” thing is a myth that got busted by the mythbusters, anyway .. Astrology = Taurine excrement? Nice one BA – & very true.

Perhaps you should read post number 30 a bit more objectively. It does not appear to say what you seem to think it says.

As I asked earlier, please provide some examples of political posts. You made the claim. You need to back it up.

But do consider that the seasons and moon have a large influence in our life.

Any animal born in winter (including us) shows character changes from those born in summer, I know from experience my wife has mood swings synchronised to the moon, etc.

Don’t dismis the lot because some followers go a tad overboard.

Cheers,

Theo