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	<title>Comments on: Are We Alone: LHC doomed from the future?</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/10/26/are-we-alone-lhc-doomed-from-the-future/</link>
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		<title>By: Alex Vorobiev</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/10/26/are-we-alone-lhc-doomed-from-the-future/#comment-202256</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Vorobiev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 16:43:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=6642#comment-202256</guid>
		<description>The idea of the universe&#039;s attempting to prevent any scientific advances potentially leading to the universe&#039;s destruction is not new. There is a brilliant old Russian/Soviet science fiction novel which was called (in its English translation) Definitely Maybe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitely_Maybe_(novel)) by Arkady and Boris Strugatsky on precisely this subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea of the universe&#8217;s attempting to prevent any scientific advances potentially leading to the universe&#8217;s destruction is not new. There is a brilliant old Russian/Soviet science fiction novel which was called (in its English translation) Definitely Maybe (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitely_Maybe_(novel)" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitely_Maybe_(novel)</a>) by Arkady and Boris Strugatsky on precisely this subject.</p>
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		<title>By: PeteC</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/10/26/are-we-alone-lhc-doomed-from-the-future/#comment-202255</link>
		<dc:creator>PeteC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 04:20:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=6642#comment-202255</guid>
		<description>As Gary (54) says, collisions of this magnitude happen all the time, including in our upper atmosphere.

So the universe/future people/ The Doctor/ Pixies will have to be doing something about all of those. That should be noticeable, shouldn&#039;t it? Uncounted millions of odd events all conspiring to stop these collisions happening? What would the universe do? How does it stop a high-powered particle impacting on a nickel-iron asteroid somewhere out in space?

Plus, and I know this is woo-woo as hell, it just feels... &quot;wrong&quot;. When we say things like &quot;nature abhors a vacuum&quot; we don&#039;t actually mean that it hates it and actively intervenes in some fashion to get rid of it. We just mean that the nature of particle movements in gasses by natural processes expands that gas to fill the available space. Nothing in any of our experience has been &quot;hated&quot; by the universe. The most unstable trans-uranic elements decay immediately using perfectly normal radioactive processes - the machinery to create them doesn&#039;t mysteriously break.

In this way, I think that if nature &quot;hated&quot; the Higgs Boson, then it simply won&#039;t be possible to create it. Nature &quot;hates&quot; me flapping my arms, flying up to the top of the atmosphere, then pushing really hard so I fly FTL to Arcturus. Natural laws thus just don&#039;t allow me to do it. If the Higgs Boson is contrary to natural law, then there is no Higgs Boson.

Finally, a bit of common sense here. The F-22 program, the Nimrod program, the computerisation of UK medical records and the Space Shuttle program all came in way, way after their original deadlines and way, way over their original budgets. Does this mean that some mysterious force from the future was interfering with these too? No, of course not. It simply means that huge projects - especially those on the edge of technological ability and scientific knowledge - are *hard* and often run into problems that optimistic planners didn&#039;t envisage. Really, if it hadn&#039;t been the LHC but a magnet in a new monorail train that had failed pushing the project back a year, would anyone be talking about a mysterious mechanism from the future intervening due to its fear or hatred of light public transport?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Gary (54) says, collisions of this magnitude happen all the time, including in our upper atmosphere.</p>
<p>So the universe/future people/ The Doctor/ Pixies will have to be doing something about all of those. That should be noticeable, shouldn&#8217;t it? Uncounted millions of odd events all conspiring to stop these collisions happening? What would the universe do? How does it stop a high-powered particle impacting on a nickel-iron asteroid somewhere out in space?</p>
<p>Plus, and I know this is woo-woo as hell, it just feels&#8230; &#8220;wrong&#8221;. When we say things like &#8220;nature abhors a vacuum&#8221; we don&#8217;t actually mean that it hates it and actively intervenes in some fashion to get rid of it. We just mean that the nature of particle movements in gasses by natural processes expands that gas to fill the available space. Nothing in any of our experience has been &#8220;hated&#8221; by the universe. The most unstable trans-uranic elements decay immediately using perfectly normal radioactive processes &#8211; the machinery to create them doesn&#8217;t mysteriously break.</p>
<p>In this way, I think that if nature &#8220;hated&#8221; the Higgs Boson, then it simply won&#8217;t be possible to create it. Nature &#8220;hates&#8221; me flapping my arms, flying up to the top of the atmosphere, then pushing really hard so I fly FTL to Arcturus. Natural laws thus just don&#8217;t allow me to do it. If the Higgs Boson is contrary to natural law, then there is no Higgs Boson.</p>
<p>Finally, a bit of common sense here. The F-22 program, the Nimrod program, the computerisation of UK medical records and the Space Shuttle program all came in way, way after their original deadlines and way, way over their original budgets. Does this mean that some mysterious force from the future was interfering with these too? No, of course not. It simply means that huge projects &#8211; especially those on the edge of technological ability and scientific knowledge &#8211; are *hard* and often run into problems that optimistic planners didn&#8217;t envisage. Really, if it hadn&#8217;t been the LHC but a magnet in a new monorail train that had failed pushing the project back a year, would anyone be talking about a mysterious mechanism from the future intervening due to its fear or hatred of light public transport?</p>
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		<title>By: M31</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/10/26/are-we-alone-lhc-doomed-from-the-future/#comment-202254</link>
		<dc:creator>M31</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 02:47:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=6642#comment-202254</guid>
		<description>You know, I&#039;m also pretty sure that the invaders from the future have this kind of Cassandra-craziness ray-emitting thingy, so that anyone who knows about them is thought of as a crackpot and never taken seriously.

What a great way to cover your time-traveling tracks.

Nah, that&#039;s crazy.  Never mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, I&#8217;m also pretty sure that the invaders from the future have this kind of Cassandra-craziness ray-emitting thingy, so that anyone who knows about them is thought of as a crackpot and never taken seriously.</p>
<p>What a great way to cover your time-traveling tracks.</p>
<p>Nah, that&#8217;s crazy.  Never mind.</p>
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		<title>By: M31</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/10/26/are-we-alone-lhc-doomed-from-the-future/#comment-202253</link>
		<dc:creator>M31</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 02:45:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=6642#comment-202253</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m pretty sure that the LHC will make the sun swell up into a huge red giant star which will swallow the Earth.  I&#039;m also pretty sure that it will only take about 5 billion years to happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure that the LHC will make the sun swell up into a huge red giant star which will swallow the Earth.  I&#8217;m also pretty sure that it will only take about 5 billion years to happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Owen</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/10/26/are-we-alone-lhc-doomed-from-the-future/#comment-202252</link>
		<dc:creator>Owen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 00:50:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=6642#comment-202252</guid>
		<description>This is scary. Not because of the threat of impending doom, but because of the threat of impending Hollywood. I can practically see the script being written now... and the crappy-movie fan in me loves it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is scary. Not because of the threat of impending doom, but because of the threat of impending Hollywood. I can practically see the script being written now&#8230; and the crappy-movie fan in me loves it.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Ansorge</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/10/26/are-we-alone-lhc-doomed-from-the-future/#comment-202251</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Ansorge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=6642#comment-202251</guid>
		<description>54. Ken

I don&#039;t know about those critters but as has been pointed out several times before in these LHC discussions, we get hit at least once a year by high energy cosmic rays with 10^21 electron volt energies,or, in other words a BILLION times more energy than the LHC could generate and cosmic rays of the energy of the LHC probably every second. So far, we&#039;re still here,,,

GAry 7</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>54. Ken</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know about those critters but as has been pointed out several times before in these LHC discussions, we get hit at least once a year by high energy cosmic rays with 10^21 electron volt energies,or, in other words a BILLION times more energy than the LHC could generate and cosmic rays of the energy of the LHC probably every second. So far, we&#8217;re still here,,,</p>
<p>GAry 7</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/10/26/are-we-alone-lhc-doomed-from-the-future/#comment-202250</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 18:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=6642#comment-202250</guid>
		<description>Just how do the energy densities of the LHC compare to, oh, a supernova?  Or the coalescence of a couple of neutron stars, or of galaxy-center black holes?  Unless the LHC is somehow hitting the universe harder than those sorts of events, I don&#039;t really think it will break the cosmos.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just how do the energy densities of the LHC compare to, oh, a supernova?  Or the coalescence of a couple of neutron stars, or of galaxy-center black holes?  Unless the LHC is somehow hitting the universe harder than those sorts of events, I don&#8217;t really think it will break the cosmos.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/10/26/are-we-alone-lhc-doomed-from-the-future/#comment-202249</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=6642#comment-202249</guid>
		<description>Hearing this talk in the latest Are We Alone? was a nice surprise. =)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hearing this talk in the latest Are We Alone? was a nice surprise. =)</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Ansorge</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/10/26/are-we-alone-lhc-doomed-from-the-future/#comment-202248</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Ansorge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:25:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=6642#comment-202248</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s see, we have about 200 billion stars in the Milky Way and about 200 billion or so galaxies in the observable universe and in all that space/time, we&#039;re the FIRST species to build a universe destroying LHC???

Does the word hubris ring a bell?

There is only one version of time travel I know of that can actually work: a great big telescope. Unfortunately, we can&#039;t get ahead of the wave front from our earth to see where we&#039;ve come from, so we really need to make contact with another civilization 100,000 lights years away who can tell us what we were doing,,,100,000 years ago. Of course, that communication would take 200,000 years.

Oh well. Never mind.

Gary 7</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s see, we have about 200 billion stars in the Milky Way and about 200 billion or so galaxies in the observable universe and in all that space/time, we&#8217;re the FIRST species to build a universe destroying LHC???</p>
<p>Does the word hubris ring a bell?</p>
<p>There is only one version of time travel I know of that can actually work: a great big telescope. Unfortunately, we can&#8217;t get ahead of the wave front from our earth to see where we&#8217;ve come from, so we really need to make contact with another civilization 100,000 lights years away who can tell us what we were doing,,,100,000 years ago. Of course, that communication would take 200,000 years.</p>
<p>Oh well. Never mind.</p>
<p>Gary 7</p>
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		<title>By: ND</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/10/26/are-we-alone-lhc-doomed-from-the-future/#comment-202247</link>
		<dc:creator>ND</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:13:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=6642#comment-202247</guid>
		<description>Well, there was that guy a few years ago that made a ton of money and when arrested for insider trading he claimed to have been from the future. Seriously. This was reported somewhere but I can&#039;t find it now. Note: I&#039;m not claiming the time-travel aspect is real. Just a fun note.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, there was that guy a few years ago that made a ton of money and when arrested for insider trading he claimed to have been from the future. Seriously. This was reported somewhere but I can&#8217;t find it now. Note: I&#8217;m not claiming the time-travel aspect is real. Just a fun note.</p>
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