Comments on: Scale the solar system

By: Laurel Kornfeld

Laurel Kornfeld — Thu, 17 Feb 2011 06:25:22 +0000

@Richard Drumm No one should “move on” from a bad decision, and I certainly never will. How about the IAU “move on” by admitting they goofed on this one? Pluto is not an iceball; it is estimated to be 75 percent rock. An eccentric orbit does not preclude it from being considered a planet, as many giant exoplanets we have discovered have orbits far more eccentric than Pluto. And you don’t need to tell your fourth graders to memorize the planets. Memorization is not important; understanding the different types of planets and their characteristics is. We don’t shorten the Periodic Table of the Elements to make it easier to memorize. We don’t say Jupiter can have only four moons because no one can memorize 63.

And KC, I am an astronomer working to get the ridiculous IAU demotion overturned. I may soon qualify to join the IAU. I have just as much right to a voice on this as Mike Brown.

By: The Meming of Life » There is too much. Let me sum up. Parenting Beyond Belief on secular parenting and other natural wonders

Wed, 02 Dec 2009 14:51:21 +0000

[...] 7. So is this (thanks Phil!) [...]

By: Putting things in perspective. « Communion Of Dreams

Putting things in perspective. « Communion Of Dreams — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:37:13 +0000

[...] giving thanks, and the question of my perspective from this vantage point in life, is what made this post from the Bad Astronomer pop out in my reading this morning. It’s about a scale model of the solar system hosted on [...]

By: lcdlover

lcdlover — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:05:28 +0000

Does anyone know Boston? It is said that if one stands on the top of the hi-rise MIT building in Cambridge (the one with the big sphere on top) and hold up a grapefruit, that grapefruit would represent the earth, and at the exact proportional size and distance, the sun would be the gold dome of the Massachusetts State House on beacon hill. This image is especially striking because both are clearly visible as one transits the Longfellow or Mass Av bridges.

By: IMForeman

IMForeman — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 05:56:33 +0000

Inverse,

I love Celestia. It’s one of my great Time consumers. I fire that program up and half a day can go by before I find the wherewithal to shut it down. It really gives a fantastic perspective on the enormity of what surrounds us. I even used it to look at some of the orbital issues that may have been in play in the Doctor Who episode The Waters of Mars.

The only problem I have with it is that whilst it shows the motions of objects within the solar system, it does not show stellar or galactic motion.

By: gopher65

gopher65 — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 00:35:23 +0000

@EmaNymton #33:

The reason why the IAU’s decision was stupid has nothing to do with Pluto itself. I don’t care what it is called. They could classify it as a comet for all I care.

The problem with their definition of planet is that if we find a gas giant the size of Jupiter way out in the Oort cloud, it would *not be considered a planet* ((even if it is shown that it formed close in around Sol like the other plants and got booted out to that distant orbit (not sure how you could show that, but let’s just say)).

Whether or not an object can “clear its neighbourhood” depends on two things: how big the object is, and the size of the region covered by its orbit. If the orbit is too large, not even Jupiter (or the super-gas giants discovered in other systems) can clear it out in a reasonable amount of time (ie, the lifetime of the universe:P). Thus, under this *ridiculous* new definition, Jupiter wouldn’t be a plant if it had a larger orbit. And Mercury could have a positively tiny orbit (tiny in the grand scheme of things anyway) and not be considered a plant.

In short, this definition is fraking lame. It was voted up not based on the merits of the definition (it has no merits whatsoever), but based on ideology. And that’s just sickening.

By: KC

KC — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 23:48:37 +0000

>If anyone is a Pluto troll it’s Mike Brown

Surely you jest – Laurel is the A Number 1 Pluto troll. She comments on every single article even remotely related to Pluto!

By: Lugosi

Lugosi — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 22:58:36 +0000

There’s a science teacher in Loudon county, Virginia, who’s looking to do a countywide “to scale” layout of the solar system. The article is from last spring, and I’m not sure whatever became of the idea. Pretty cool, though, if he manages to pull it off.
http://loudounextra.washingtonpost.com/news/2009/may/22/cosmos-cut-size/

By: mike burkhart

mike burkhart — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:11:38 +0000

this site was interesting but some think the solor system ends at the orat cloud were comets form and its 2 light years away form the sun

By: CllockworkRobot

CllockworkRobot — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 20:10:03 +0000

if i print this out how many black ink cartrages am i going to need?

By: Richard Drumm The Astronomy Bum

Richard Drumm The Astronomy Bum — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:20:07 +0000

@ Jack Hagerty:
You’re welcome! I’ve had that site bookmarked for a few years now. Very useful! That link will give you the hard data you need for your design. Easy peasy!

@ Laurel & The Hitchhiker:
It’s time you moved on from this topic. Pluto is a snowball in a weird orbit. It cares not what we call it. Like I tell the kids at the Observatory, we could call it a chicken if we wanted.
4th graders everywhere will be glad they don’t have to memorize 100 planets for some test.

Even so, it would be fun for us BAblogees to come up with the mnemonic to supplant the “My Very Earnest Mother Just Served Us Nachos” that we now have. I have a list of some of the KBOs but not their distances… Anybody out there have a link?

Quaoar could be quail, Varuna could be vegetables, and so on…
Oh, Makemake just MUST be mahi-mahi! Yum!

@ #5 FC:
It would be a ball of neutrons. Neutron star stuff. Very dense. Very cool, too!

As I used the scroll bar’s arrow “key” to scroll through the graphic I used the timer in my iPod and found that it took 13 seconds to scroll from the Sun to the Earth. Since this would take 8 minutes at lightspeed, this means that scrollspeed is 37 times lightspeed! (8 X 60/13)Even then, it takes approximately FOREVER to get to ol’ Pluto! I tried dragging the scroll thingie to find the other planets and failed to find Neptune. It must zip by so fast it’s not even displayed. Wow.

By: dd

dd — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 16:34:32 +0000

That’s cool. It’s very hard to find, say, Saturn scrolling on the screen in this super-resized down model. So, think about the ability of scientists that send spacecrafts that go from Earth to Saturn and beyond in the real Solar System. And they get to the right place with an approximation of few kilometers… That’s amazing…

By: Dennis

Dennis — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 15:16:04 +0000

31. MobyD Says:
By the way, it says on the site that one pixel equals one thousand kilometers.

Where did you see that? Because I don’t.

By: StuartB

StuartB — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:46:44 +0000

@DrFlimmer: there’s a similar scaled solar system on a mile of cycle path between York and Selby, which comes complete with signposts at each planet giving the distances to the next and previous:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stuartadrianbrown/3398628960/

By: Kristin C

Kristin C — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 11:44:33 +0000

Fabulous! The physics institute here did that scale model every year on our campus as a centre attraction for the Astrofestival at the University of Oslo Campus. The Sun was the size of an orange and the planets were strewn out as little led lights on sticks, and then we guided groups of schoolchildren around (as well as adults).

(Unfortunately, the Astrofestival didn’t get enough money support to continue beyond 2008, a giant shame for the International Year of Astronomy. It will however ressurect as a one-time festival in 2011 when the University celebrates its 200 year anniversary.)

By: Jack Hagerty

Jack Hagerty — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 09:23:12 +0000

21. Richard Drumm The Astronomy Bum Says: “Here’s another site to give you all a sense of how empty space is: http://www.exploratorium.edu/ronh/solar_system/”

Thank you for that! We have a local city park, located on the rural edge of Livermore, that has roughly linear main trail that’s just over 3.5 miles long. I’ve always thought that it would be the perfect place for a 1:1,000,000,000 scale model of the solar system. The sun would be about 52″ (1.3m) in diameter, an impressive enough size for when you get to the planets (Earth is just over 1/2 inch (1.3 cm)). With the sun at one trail head, Pluto would be at the other end, an hour or more walk away.

- Jack

By: Recycle, Reuse and Reduce - A Quiz For Families Who Want to Recycle Cans | Green Solutions for You!

Wed, 25 Nov 2009 06:03:30 +0000

[...] Scale the solar system | Bad Astronomy | Discover Magazine [...]

By: The Hitchhiker

The Hitchhiker — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 06:02:31 +0000

If anyone is a Pluto troll it’s Mike Brown who obsessively refers to himself as Plutokiller and rants on and on about how his fantasies of bombing Pluto. This guy is nothing but a troublemaker in the astronomy community. Then he tries to soften his image by shamelessly using his kid as a pawn, always talking about Lilah this and Lilah that. I was undecided too until I started reading about this nut.

By: Autumn

Autumn — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 04:48:32 +0000

Mike Marsh says “And I thought it was a long way down the road to the chemist’s”

Yes, I have to say it, “That’s just peanuts to space.”
Thank you Douglas Adams

By: James B

James B — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 04:42:04 +0000

rereading through all these comments, its quite heart-warming for someone concerned with science education to see so many stories of recreations readers have done. Power to the people!

By: Tervuren

Tervuren — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 04:35:20 +0000

I am a Special Education teacher. One of my favorite activities for teaching the Solar System is called “Earth as a Peppercorn” . We glue common objects that simulate the relative sizes of planets to popsicle sticks, using a volleyball for the sun; and then pace out the distances and stab the sticks in the ground. We usually run out of playground before we place Saturn (a hazelnut). It is a fun craft and whole body activity for students.

By: Vern

Vern — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 03:36:34 +0000

With all that nothing out there I’m just happy we have something to perch on at all.

By: James B

James B — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 03:34:02 +0000

A little point of confusion, Phillip in #7 answers an “Either/Or” question with “Yes”, would he mind clarifying the point? the difference between a big ball of atoms and a big ball of neutrons is so huge, I’m not sure which is the correct interpretation of the analogy. I’m only a lay person to science, but I understand enough to know the massive difference between these two scenarios and would like to be furnished with the correct interpretation, since its an interesting analogy.

Also, for the scrolling site, holding down scroll while the screen seems to stay a static black doesn’t really give you any idea of the distance you’re scrolling. Some kind of scale or reference point for the scrolling I think would really enhance the appreciation of distance. Maybe a scale along the bottom giving distance in kilometres, or light seconds/minutes?

I really like the idea, scales on a solar system/galactic level as well as an atomic level are so removed from human experience, aides like this are extremely useful, not to mention downright fascinating!

By: EmaNymton

EmaNymton — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 03:02:42 +0000

Hey. A cameo by Pluto-troll Laurel Kornfeld! Everyone who wants to know anything about the Pluto thing needs to read what she has to say. That’s what took me from being not sure about the whole thing to being quite sure that the decision was correct.

By: Space Cadet

Space Cadet — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 02:30:26 +0000

I helped my daughter build a solar system model many years ago. We were constrained by the distance from the teacher’s desk to the nearest busy road, and by the stipulation, imposed by my middle-infielder daughter, that the sun be a softball, but we taped various objects, decorated if size allowed, on a couple of kids’ desks and a bookshelf, some posts in the buildings and light poles in the parking lot until Pluto, the point snipped off a pin, was taped to the traffic signal at the afore mentioned busy road. It wasn’t exactly scale, but for a bunch of second graders, I think it worked pretty well. And it was fun.