Comments on: Chiropocalypse, Book 2

By: GeoWonk.com » Blog Archive » Simon Singh no longer writing for The Guardian

Tue, 16 Mar 2010 19:09:33 +0000

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By: Jay Fox

Jay Fox — Sat, 06 Mar 2010 21:13:53 +0000

For me, chiropractic has been a godsend due to two different drunks taking aim at my cars while I was in them.

The cops do not seem to be interested in my ability to find impaired drivers.

For the kind of back pain that I occasionally suffer from, chiropractic offers nearly immediate relief for the price of a single visit. When I go to an MD for the same pain, if they do anything at all it is prescribe expensive drugs that do not perform as well as chiropractic. They must be taken continually to dull the pain, and when they run out, the pain is still there, along with any withdrawal symptoms.

Having said all that, I do not believe that chiro can prevent the flu or other disease by itself. To suggest otherwise is wishful thinking. But, here’s the thing. It has been shown that chronic pain can indeed suppress the immune system to the point that some ailments may then get a foothold. By managing pain or discomfort, one may improve their overall health condition. It’s pretty hard to maintain a positive attitude when it feels like someone stuck a shiv in your back. So chiropractic can, tangentially, improve overall health in some people.

Will it work for everyone? Probably not. My own observations suggest that the great majority of chiropractors are frauds in it for the money. Some actually do more harm than good. Finding one that listens to your complaint and provides appropriate treatment is a lot of trial and error, mostly error. Stay away from the ones making outrageous claims and sift through the rest. There are good ones out there. Another personal observation is that the good ones usually come from the MD side and are multidisciplinary. They know conventional medicine well and are quick to steer you to an MD if something is out of their purview. Those chiropractors know their limits and do not make outrageous claims.

By: JupiterIsBig

JupiterIsBig — Fri, 05 Mar 2010 02:37:39 +0000

#26 @Bababooey “I don’t understand the problem. I know several people that have gone to chiropractors after car accidents and seem to think the guy fixed them up.”
As I said it worked for me.
I have friends who are physiotherapists – their favourite saying is “That’ll get better in two weeks with treatment, but it might take about 14 days withoug treatment”.
IMHO Massage and attention are great for helping some sorts of pain. I don’t think it’s %100 placebo. I think it’s a combination of distraction, gentle manipulation, human attention (c.f. picking fleas) etc.

By: Liz Ditz

Liz Ditz — Fri, 05 Mar 2010 01:26:35 +0000

I wish there were a national US body similar to the UK’s Advertising Standards Authority, to go after the quacks of all flavors that advertise “cures” or “helps” for this, that and the other. Unfortunately, there really isn’t.

Some (not all) US chiropractors are using social media, such as Facebook and Twitter, to make such statements as:

Chiropractic has been shown to reduce ADD/ADHD symptoms n kids and adults.

No, it hasn’t, and no, it can’t.

By: Ginger Yellow

Ginger Yellow — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 13:06:09 +0000

I’m pretty sure the BCA’s lawyers took the case on a contingent fee basis.

By: TheBlackCat

TheBlackCat — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 01:33:11 +0000

The only reason I can think of for them to do so would be intense pressure from their members, and although their members are grumbly, I don’t believe they are demanding the case be dropped.

The one thing you are not taking into account are lawyer’s fees. Continuing with the case may end up costing them more then just dropping it depending on how much their lawyers are charging.

By: Tracy King

Tracy King — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 00:05:42 +0000

Regarding the question about whether the BCA can back out now or if it’s past the point of no return, the answer is: they can back out at any time, but if they do then they pay. And while there is a chance that they’ll win, it is sadly in their best interests to stick to their guns now it’s gone this far. Think of it like this: they back out, they have essentially lost the case and have to deal with all the bad PR that comes with backing down, plus paying around £100k in costs. In otherwords, they’d be paying for their own loss and bad PR. That is not a smart move in most cases. The alternative is to take the chance that they’ll win, thereby gaining good PR (see, we told you it works, etc), and not losing any money at all. If they lose, they pay anyway, but this way it isn’t a guaranteed loss.

Of course, the smart thing would have been not to sue. I believe the BCA is on the record as saying they never actually expected Simon to defend the suit.

In the process they have annoyed their own members, too. Winning is their only chance of saving themselves at this stage, I believe. So yeah, I’d be staggered if they simply dropped the case. The only reason I can think of for them to do so would be intense pressure from their members, and although their members are grumbly, I don’t believe they are demanding the case be dropped. Apart from anything, it’s highly likely that many don’t believe their colic treatments are bogus at all. They do advertise them on their websites, after all.

Note: I am not a lawyer.

By: Zeno

Zeno — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 23:51:48 +0000

Are you guys going to follow our lead? What’s the options for complaining against false claims in the US?

Have you seen the UK’s General Chiropractic Council’s report on the evidence that Martin mentioned in the Guardian Article? If not, read my blog post giving its conclusions.

I’m sure there will be a lot of bloggers and academics focussing on it over the coming weeks!

By: The Chemist

The Chemist — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 23:03:26 +0000

Disappointed, I thought the word you were looking for was schadenfreudilicious.

By: Left_Wing_Fox

Left_Wing_Fox — Wed, 03 Mar 2010 19:55:56 +0000

@24: The placebo effect is a little more than just that though. It’s the psychological effect of the expectation of treatment. Studies on the placebo effect have shown that different placebos can be more or less effective than other placebos, based on color, delivery, presentation, taste, etc.

To that end, I think it’s perfectly appropriate for doctors and drug companies to deliver the medicine in a way that maximizes the placebo effect for effective drugs or useful treatments. I agree that it’s a breech of ethics to prescribe a substance that relies solely on the placebo effect as a method of treatment.