Erie UFO sounds familiar to me

By Phil Plait | March 15, 2010 1:45 pm

A wave of reports is coming in from the town of Euclid, Ohio, from folks there who are seeing a mysterious light hovering over Lake Erie and Cleveland. The light, they say, is very bright, lasts for a couple of hours, stays near the horizon, changes colors, and keeps coming back to the same spot night after night.

Here’s an MSNBC report about it:

Could it be an alien visitor from another world?

No, I don’t think so. In fact, I think it is another world. Venus, to be specific.

A Fort Wayne, Indiana website has an interview with one of the witnesses on video, and includes some still shots. Everything in his description, including the photographs, makes me think he and the others are seeing Venus.

Right now, Venus can be seen in the west — the direction to Lake Erie and Cleveland as seen in Euclid — shining brightly just after sunset. It is so bright it can be seen while the sky is still light (I’ve seen Venus in the middle of the day). It appears to hover. Changing atmospheric conditions can affect its color, especially when it’s low to the horizon. It can be seen night after night, in the same spot in the sky.

Sound familiar?

I’m not saying what these people are seeing is in fact Venus, but it sure fits everything I’ve heard in the news reports (sometimes the witnesses describe multiple lights, but when looking to the horizon, especially over a big city, it’s not too unlikely to see planes flying around). In the MSNBC report they talked to the FAA, the military, and others (including a UFO guy from England), but never talked to an astronomer. Hmmph. And note that in these news articles, Venus is never mentioned! That’s mighty peculiar, given how spectacular it is in the west after sunset. It’s really hard to miss. A likely explanation is that it’s not mentioned because it is, in fact, the culprit here.

I’m getting a kick out of just how positive so many people are that this is a flying saucer of some kind. I wonder how many of these folks actually are familiar with the night sky, and would recognize Venus when they see it? That’s why I think very few astronomers (pro or amateur) report UFOs: astronomers tend to know what they’re looking at in the sky.

The next time you hear a report like this, don’t jump to the conclusion that some interplanetary object is making a close encounter… because it may very well be interplanetary, but the encounter may not be terribly close.

Tip o’ the probe to Patrick Kent.

Comments (134)

  1. fizzyb

    I saw this report the other day and couldn’t help but chuckle. Venus returns to the evening sky…and suddenly there are a multitude of “UFO” sightings. It’s continually frustrating to me just how little people know about the night sky. *sigh*

  2. “A likely explanation is that it’s not mentioned because it is, in fact, the culprit here.”

    Oh my, are you suggesting that the media would purposely ignore a plausible explanation? They must think their audience enjoys a good UFO story.

  3. Jason Palmer

    That’s funny. I didn’t realize Venus moves around in different directions in the sky. It must have the oddest planetary orbit around a star I’ve ever heard of.

  4. [smacks head] Oh for crying out loud.

    People will do anything for their fifteen minutes.

  5. jest

    I learned a LONG time ago to never take anything the media reports (re: space-related, and astronomy in general), as fact.

    There’s just so much hopefulness out there from people that they will spot that “first contact” with another race of beings… they need to stop holding their breath.

  6. MoonShark

    Ugh. I live in Cleveland. I work on the east side (not too far from Euclid) but live on the west side (near Lakewood). If I can see this to the west from home, then it’s clearly not “over Cleveland”.

    IIRC Venus is often seen near the horizon at dawn or dusk. Any other tips for spotting it? Phil says it’s “hard to miss”, and I’ve seen Jupiter and Saturn a few times so I know roughly what to expect, but I’d like to avoid any mistakes. Maybe I’ll see about borrowing a camera too.

  7. brad.

    get a hold of the radar TAPES? get hold of the original FILM footage? has Mr. UFO expert joined the 21st century yet? you’d think with all of his exposure to alien technology he’d be familiar with modern storage media.

  8. DisGRUNTled

    Maybe I should go out once these clouds clear away and film the same thing and send it into the news stations around here saying the “UFO” thats visiting Euclid is visiting Philly as well so then we can get that astronomer guy at the Franklin Institute to come on TV and squash this.

  9. Brian

    I’ve also noticed that planets and bright stars will often flicker through several colors. I’ve only seen this in the evening and in the winter, here in Florida. My guess is that the temperature gradient between the relatively warm surface air and the higher air masses makes for some interesting turbulence and refraction, and so you get the colors shimmering.

  10. Minos

    Maybe it was reflecting off some swamp gas.

  11. Timmy

    @Jason Palmer: The camera is not on a tripod and is zoomed in. That accounts for the appearance of movement. When the camera zooms out it is obviously not moving at all.

  12. David

    To quote a favorite blogger of mine…

    “The stupid… It burns.”

  13. Art

    Two words: “Death Star”.

  14. DennyMo

    “I’m getting a kick out of just how positive so many people are that this is a flying saucer of some kind.”

    It is *so* hilarious, the certitude with which so many people speak their ignorance. We had an event near Cincy a couple years ago where a daytime fireworks display set off a series of long-lived smoke rings. Hoo-boy, so many people were dad-gum certain it wasn’t fireworks, the police were hiding summin’, blablabla. Jeen-yusses!

  15. Thespis

    I saw it- knew it was a planet, but had to look up which one.

    And, as always, There’s an X-Files Quote for this occasion.

    MIB: Even the former leader of your United States of America, James Earl Carter, Jr.,
    thought he saw a UFO once, but it’s been proven he only saw the planet Venus.

    Roky: I’m a republican.

    MIB: Venus was at its peak brilliance last night. You probably thought you saw something
    up in the sky other than Venus, but I assure you, it was Venus.

    Roky: I know… what I saw.

    MIB: Your scientists have yet to discover how neural networks create self-consciousness, let
    alone how the human brain processes two-dimensional retinal images into the three-
    dimensional phenomenon known as perception, yet you somehow brazenly declare seeing is
    believing? Mr. Crikenson, your scientific illiteracy makes me shudder, and I wouldn’t
    flaunt your ignorance by telling anyone that you saw anything last night other than the
    planet Venus, because if you do, you’re a dead man.

    Roky: You… can’t threaten me.

    MIB: I just did.

    from 3×20 Jose Chung’s “From Outer Space”

  16. stevesliva

    That MIB was Jesse Ventura. This entire blog post should be read in a Jesse Ventura voice.

  17. Gary Ansorge

    I saw a flying saucer once,,,unfortunately, gravity sucked and the Frisbee fell to earth.

    I sincerely hope we DON’T meet real ETs before we’re able to protect ourselves. It would likely prove the undoing of our current power mongers, as in, “Low tech civilization meets Boogers from another star. Boogers win!”

    Why would anyone think a very high tech civilization(the Boogers) would be at all interested in the doings of a bunch of naked apes at the bottom of a deep gravity well when the (Boogers) have access to all kinds of free energy and material resources in space? What does a planet really have to offer an interstellar civilization that cannot be more easily supplied by comets, asteroids and small (meaning: low gravity) moons?

    If I ever detect a REAL flying saucer, I will do my best to find out who invented/built it so I can buy stock in their company because it’s most likely that “real” flying saucer will be human built.

    Gary 7

  18. drow

    maybe it’s ROCKET RACING!

  19. BJN

    Lake Eeeeeerie!

    Jebus, looks just like handheld telephoto video of Venus to me. I don’t suppose anyone with a good tripod and a decent optic can be bothered to debunk this idiocy?

  20. Lem

    Hmmm. Last time I lived in Cleveland, which was only for like 30 years or so, I could have sworn that the lake is *NORTH* of everything. I really don’t see how Venus could end up far enough north as viewed from a point at 42 North latitude to appear over the lake. I could certainly see how Venus might be seen over Cleveland from Euclid – as Cleveland is west and a bit south of Euclid – but I just don’t see how it could be viewed as appearing over the lake. It’s been a long time, so my recollections may be fuzzy, but I don’ recall ever seeing a sunset over the lake – even around the summer solstice. I just really can’t believe that the culprit is just venus. (I’m not saying it’s aliens or anything. It might be some other bright object – Just that I doubt Venus is the culprit here).

  21. bigjohn756

    Where are the northern Ohio amateur astronomers? They could put the kibosh on this immediately.

  22. Jason Palmer (#3): do a web search on “autokinesis”. And save the sarcasm for after you’ve done a little more research.

  23. Well, he is right that nothing we have on Earth looks like that. Technically, Venus is NOT on Earth ya know :)

    Highly zoomed, no tripod. Heck, I have taken pictures that look like some of his stills of the UFO (usually because I had a camera setting incorrect) when there was clearly no UFO anywhere in the vicinity.

    One of the more insane people I have encountered was at a star party. Venus was low in the sky, flickering and a very excited man wanted to show me the UFO. I told him it was Venus and offered to point my telescope at it. Venus was nearing inferior conjunction and getting to be a nice little crescent. He was NOT pleased. He started screaming at me that I was showing him the Moon and telling me to point my telescope at the UFO!

    Okay, using Google Earth to zoom in on Cleveland, the lake Erie shoreline runs northeast to southwest when you are east of downtown Cleveland (which is what is stated in one of the links). Given this orientation, it is quite plausible to see Venus over the lake if you are east of downtown.

  24. Natural eye movement will also make objects without a reference point appear to move in the distance. Heck, they even addressed this in the HBO series Generation Kill, when the guys called down an arty strike on lights in the desert thinking they were a tank column on the move 15 klicks away. But it was a town much farther off.
    When I’m satellite hunting I pick a bright star and then scan around it for movement, otherwise everything looks like it’s moving if I focus on it long enough.

  25. Before I read your text below the video, I thought, “Venus” and also wondered why they didn’t ask an astronomer. I also find it interesting that they spoke to Nick Pope, a former head (?) of the U.K.’s UFO investigation program in the Ministry of Defense (can’t recall the exact name of the program atm).

  26. Yep, sounds like yet another horse- what a pity, I’d love to pet a zebra.

    That said, I wonder if we’ll ever get to sick and tired of these things that we actually get cynical, miss the one visitor that pops by and not roll out the welcome mat.

    For all we know it’s already happened.

    [Cue eerie string quartet]

  27. Darth Curt

    They don’t ask astronomers because astronomers would say “It’s Venus. Move along now.” That’s just plain boring, and nobody likes watching boring news. That’s why we had Y2K and the summer of the shark. Sensationalized news is better than real news.

  28. Travis D

    A UFO over Lake Erie!?!

    Meh.

    Get back to me when they discover water in Lake Erie.

  29. Ok, I had to write into the news channel and tell them to check with a local Astronomer first, next time there is something ‘weird’ in the sky.

  30. Sanjase was on her way to pick up Billy Meier but overshot Switzerland and landed in Cleveland.

    Talk about shock.

    //multiple in-jokes

  31. You know, if more people didn’t just have cameras on their phones, but Google’s Sky Map as well, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

  32. Mike

    Moonshark, the best tip for finding Venus is to look west in the early evening (or east in the early morning when Venus happens to be up then) and find the brightest thing in the sky that isn’t the moon. No kidding! It is FAR brighter than any star or any other planet, and you’ll see it right through light pollution, cirrus clouds, or even daylight!

  33. Pete

    What little of the footage I saw from the web clip showed a bright light apparently drifting right, until it passed behind a building. Looked very unlike anything weird, but that bit might not have been Venus

    Reminds me of my fave UFO story, back in the late 70’s when Ben Bova was editor of OMNI, and was being interview on a local radio station when a westerly weather balloon generated lots of calls.

  34. Amelia

    I’m not saying it is a UFO, but how can that be Venus? You can clearly see it’s moving slowly in one direction and even passes through a cloud (no, i’m not talking about the jerky camera movements). Surely, it’s possible that it’s an aircraft?

  35. Scott

    If there are any amateur astronomers in the area with a telescope or binoculars; this is the perfect opportunity to set up and show all the people gathering what the “light” really is! Afterward, when Mars and Saturn rise, show them that. This is an excellent opportunity for amateur astronomers to show their mettle…

  36. ssurell

    This reminds me when I was up in the Wisconsin Dells. We use to sit by Lake Delton and start a campfire. All the peole that were in the area would come by. Early evening people were seeing a bright light in the west. A few said it’s UFO. I said no it is Venus. Again, is that a UFO?. NO! It’s Venus. It must be a UFO. At that point I gave up. People will believe what people WANT to believe.

  37. ND

    Deen,

    That sounds like an iphone app niche market. A UFO reporting app. The user points the iphone at the UFO and the instant they take a picture, it records the user’s GPS coordinations, time, and the direction towards the UFO. The app would also know where the Moon, Venus and other bright objects are and warn the user if they’re pointing at it.

  38. ND

    Pete,

    I don’t know what that person used to record the videos but if it was a camcorder with a high zoom feature, it may catch the movement of the sky. I believe camcorders these days can go to 30-50X. I don’t know if that’s high enough of a magnification to show it.

  39. Mike from Tribeca

    In the immortal words of Shocking Blue…

    Goddess on the mountain top
    Burning like a silver flame
    The summit of beauty and love
    And Venus was her name

    She’s got it
    Yeah, baby, she’s got it
    I’m your Venus, I’m your fire
    At your desire

  40. @ Pete & ND:

    One crucial bit of information is missing: was the photographer moving? One could easily make a distant object appear to drift behind a building – knowingly or not – if one were moving.

  41. Evil Merodach

    I saw this video the other day and the first thing I thought was that has to be Venus. Hint: it appears around 7:30Pm and lasts a couple of hours? All the descriptions I’ve heard mention only a single UFO and it appears around the same time each night? Even without knowing which direction they were looking I figured they had to be looking to the west.

    It’s disheartening to think that, in a major metropolitan area, no one considered the possibility that this “mysterious” light was our sister planet. I hope science education in this country hasn’t sunk that low.

    Then again it’s more likely that it’s the media that’s pushing the bogus UFO angle, but it’s equally sad to think the Fourth Estate has turned into such a joke.

  42. Space Cadet

    Hey, I been seein’ one of them things out here, too. Looks like maybe it’s out over Sebastopol, or maybe Bloomfield, or maybe all the way out over the ocean. And it’s been movin’ about, too. I seen it from home a couple nights ago and it was straight over that tree on the hill you can see from my porch. I saw it again from Jerry’s house down the street, and it was definitely to the left of that tree. I missed it last night cuz we was drinkin’.

  43. CB

    I looked up Euclid, OH on the map and there is certainly plenty of Lake Erie to the west of it, since the coastline as seen on the map slopes to the northeast at about a 45 degree angle. So everything over the lake isn’t north of Euclid.

  44. naw

    I just really love how he tries to save himself at the end of it.

    Maybe something like this can be turned into a good thing. All we need is someone to take a telescope (or two) out there and show people that it is just a planet. And if they don’t burn him at the stake, some of those people just may get that spark of interest in real science.

  45. dongisselbeck

    Just before the Trinity shot (according to Richard Rhodes) there was a similar incident with many prominent physicists involved wondering if they had an interloper. It stopped when an astronomer asked why they were trying to shoot down Venus.

  46. sophia8

    Todd W @25: Nick Pope was a middle-ranking civil servant in the Ministry of Defence – a desk jockey who handled reports of UFO sightings. He has no science training or expertise and investigated sightings by checking weather reports, asking the Air Force if they knew of anything in the sky at that time and so on. None of his online biographies mention any contact with astronomers.

  47. Minos

    Waaaiit… the UFO is familiar? Phil Plait is an alien, and the rest of the invasion force has arrived!

  48. Dave

    People………
    Way Late on this………..
    Its a Alienware’s Core i7-980x Area-51 Computer. Gigs Up Good Luck Next Time :)

  49. Laura

    Notice how nobody in Canada is seeing this? If there really was something flying over the lake, there would definitely be people reporting it from the northern shores as well.

  50. Jason Palmer

    @Phil Plait. You’re right, I’m sorry about the sarcasm. About the autokinesis, though, I’m pretty sure I saw in one of the videos, one of the lights moving behind a building.

  51. I couldn’t even watch the whole video. Too much bad footage of the planet Venus. Look, people, any photographer will tell you if you’re going to film, especially distant objects or at night, USE A TRIPOD. Heck, even bracing the camera on the porch railing is better than trying to free-hand it. And throw some proper optics in there while you’re at it. Your blue-light special 50-power digital zoom webcam that also takes still photos is no match for even a basic telescope.
    Class dismissed.

  52. Bruce

    What do you expect from MSNBC? Tomorrow they’ll have Keith Olbermann screaming about “THE WORST ALIENS IN THE WORLD!!!”

  53. jcm

    Poor Venus always being misidentified as a UFO.

  54. Grant M.

    Who IS this David Schuster doofuss? Has he never looked up into the night sky and seen bright stars and planets? What an embarrassment!

  55. Inertially Guided

    Once again, into the breech… The fascinating thing to me is that information on what is visible in the sky is available to EVERYONE (think “Heavens-Above.com” or any one of a dozen other great websites). It isn’t like back in the 1960s when Betty Hill mis-identified Jupiter and Saturn (in conjunction with the moon) as an alien spacecraft and started the whole “abduction” craze…THEN it took at little more digging in almanacs and magazines to find out what planets were visible. Today anyone can access easy-to-understand information–and (here is a radical idea) the members of the press who propagate this nonsense certainly SHOULD be fact-checking their stories!

    Back in the early 80s I was visiting relatives in Arizona and there were a rash of sightings of red, glowing objects that seemed to chase cars down the interstate–“every time we looked up this red thing was right there; it must’ve been following US!”. Care to guess which red planet was at opposition, and, further, how many newspapers or TV stations called Lowell or Kitt Peak Observatories for background? At the time I was pretty naive; I asked the director of Lowell why the astronomers kept quiet about such an obvious mis-identification of Mars, and he said “Why bother? They’re gonna believe what they want to believe.”

    I want to believe that–someday–we’ll get past all this, but I never have had that much of an imagination.

  56. Gonzo

    I saw this report and just laughed and laughed. David Shuster is a toolbag.

  57. Bren

    Are they serious??!! MSNBC should be ashamed! Bet we don’t see a report on the fact that they reported Venus as a UFO. The stupid really does burn!

  58. @ Jason Palmer:

    See comments above yours. It’s quite easy for an object in the sky to appear to move behind a building if the photographer is moving. Even shifting the camera by a few inches, when a zoom lens is at full zoom, would give you that effect. That, coupled with all the rest of the video which clearly looks exactly like the planet Venus when photographed at high magnification, plus the nightly appearance in the sky at the same time and exactly where Venus appears, would tend to weigh the likely solution into the “it’s Venus” category.

  59. ND

    kuhnigget,

    duh! of course. so simple. the observer moves.

  60. Keith Thompson

    Here’s a question that should be asked every time something like this shows up.

    People saw a light in the western sky. So if it was a UFO, where was Venus? We know Venus was visible. If there really had been a glowing alien spaceship, we’d getting reports of a UFO *near Venus*. How could the UFO possibly have been alone in the sky?

  61. I actually had this same thing happen to me once. On a sunday after the store I was working at closed, a bunch of my coworkers were outside buzzing about something. I walked up and asked them what was so interesting, and they said they saw a UFO. “It’s too bright to be a star,” they said, “and too still to be a plane.” I asked them where they saw it and they pointed it out to me “It’s right there! That bright light!”

    “Where? Behind Venus?”

    “Venus.”

    “Yes. That bright light is the planet Venus.”

    They were so disappointed, I almost felt guilty for being a bit of a dick about it.

  62. Phil, why don’t they call you? I’ve seen you in a news interview once, and your much cooler than that stiff neck from London.

  63. usagi

    Venus. Pheh.
    It’s clearly Eärendil traversing the heavens in his ship Vingilot with a Silmaril on his brow.

  64. RetroAngusR

    Easiest way to prove that this was Venus; find out where someone was standing. Find out what direction they were looking. Whip out a handy starcharting app of some kind, spool back to the time in question and see if Venus was up and in that direction. Ask them if they saw _two_ bright lights. Venus is so bright that if they didn’t see it – and if a UFO is moving around near a stationary point of light it would kind of stand out – then what they saw must have been Venus itself.

    I’m surprised ISS passes aren’t reported as UFO events more; since they got the final panels on it’s been astonishingly bright, but as the passes only last a few minutes I guess enough credulous people don’t look up at the right time…

  65. UmTutSut

    Ugh. Ugh. Ugh. It’s precisely this kind of nonsense that makes it very difficult for those of us who feel extraterrestrial craft POSSIBLY could be involved in SOME sightings to make science take UFO studies seriously.

  66. @sophia8

    Ah, yes. Thanks for the clarification.

  67. MoonShark

    @Lem (#20): Yes, the sun definitely sets over Lake Erie this time of year (as seen from the east side of Cleveland). Just the other day I was driving home along the shoreway (Route 2) toward a brilliant sun pillar! I also saw a bright and nearly-complete double-rainbow on the same drive a few weeks ago :D

    (for those unfamiliar, glance at a map; I was heading west toward Burke Lakefront Airport)

  68. Hmph. Well, so much for my theory that they’re seeing the lights from Detroit (or Toledo) taking a hop off of some thermal boundary layers over Lake Erie. That was the first thing I thought of when I saw this last week.

    I’ve seen some wild stuff in the sky – including, I think, the International Space Station glowing orange in the reflected light of the rising Full Moon (a pass that was not listed on Heavens-Above, because it wasn’t technically a “visible pass”). People who are really interested in UFOs should learn as much as they can about observational astonomy, atmospheric light effects, satellites, planets, meteors, how to read a sky map, and so on. (Heck, EVERYBODY should learn that stuff!)

  69. Troy

    I love how most posters in these comments always attempts to out expert everyone, no matter what the subject. If we could just box up the lot of you and move you into a position of power over the planet we’d have no woes at all.

    The stupid may burn, but the pomposity in here provides endless amusement.
    Keeps me smiling – thanks to all!

  70. ndt

    Troy, nobody here is claiming to be an expert. On the contrary, we are bemoaning the fact that a large segment of the general public seems to be lacking a basic grade school education in astronomy. You don’t need to be an expert to know what the freakin’ evening star is.

  71. Mike From Tribeca

    Would it be too much of a budget breaker to purchase a tripod? Or would the ensuing footage, sans swooshing and zig-zagging, be just too boring for prime time TV?

  72. Lars

    Reminds me of a local kook in the Bergen area of Norway who made a fuss about this “mysterious” light in the sky.

    “This is not Venus!!!11″ he proclaimed, and continued to scold Teh Government, the Scientists and everybody else for not having the will to scrutinize the matter.

    The most likable aspect of this newspaper article, to me, was the fact that the journalist actually bothered to ask a local astronomer, who dryly replied: “Correct; that is not Venus. It is Jupiter.”

  73. @ Troy:

    I love how people show up here, apparently ignorant of the fact this is a skeptic’s blog, and then act surprised that people are…wait for it…skeptical.

    It’s better to offer up rational theories to explain a phenomenon than to blindly say, It’s a flyin’ saucer!

    Keep me face palming! Thanks y’all!

  74. nevermindnathan

    Seems to me that one can look West from Euclid, OH and see out over Lake Eire. See for yourself:

    http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=&ie=UTF8&ll=41.273678,-81.109314&spn=1.886697,4.163818&z=9

    I can’t say for sure that what is on the grainy, shaky video is indeed Venus. However, given the time of day, direction of viewing, predictable pattern of sightings & duration of the sightings Venus is the overwhelming favorite. I could be proven wrong, but the evidence presented here is not enough. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

  75. I have never seen a UFO. I have stood right beside people who were seeing a UFO. The difference between us is simply knowledge of what we were lookin’ at.

  76. bouch

    Last week I had a similar experience. I went to walk my dog at about 9:30. I immediately saw what looked like two red and blue flashing lights low on the north-eastern horizon, with a white light between them. OK, I live near a small airport, so I figured it was plane. I soon realized that it wasn’t moving at all. It stayed stationary for 5 or 10 minutes. I just kept looking at it it, expecting it to move, and it didn’t. Finally, after 20 minutes, I realized that it was rising in the sky, and it wasn’t flashing as brightly any more. It was just a bright star (not a planet, those appear in the south-east this time of year) that the atmosphere was messing around with.

    I guess that point is that its really easy to mistake a star/planet for something that its not…

  77. ndt

    What gets me is that when I was much younger, I was fascinated with the idea of alien spacecraft visiting the earth. As part of this fascination, I wanted to learn everything about space and astronomy I could. So I learned about which planets are visible from earth and where they usually appear in the sky, along with the tricks the atmosphere can play with visible light. That someone could be a UFO buff and not be familiar with Venus just doesn’t make sense to me.

  78. L Q

    One thing to note is that Lake Erie’s shore in Euclid runs NE-SW, not E-W as some (like me as a kid) may think while driving down Lake Shore Blvd. So people looking “north” over the lake are actually looking kind of northwest.

    If you take this into account, looking “northwest” (45 degress left of perpendicular to the shore) is more like looking due west.

  79. Aerimus

    If it is Venus, then that is indeed sad. My 3 1/2 year old has already learned to spot it at night (although she does call it “Venus Star”, same as she does with Jupiter and Mars). The other day in the car, we were driving, and she saw Venus, saying “Daddy, Venus star is coming with us”, talking about how it looked like it was moving with the car. If my 3 year old can figure it out, what are these people’s excuse?

  80. Bunsen

    As a Clevelander who lives directly under the flight path of the Goodyear Blimp, I would like to say that the blimp was in town doing coverage for the Cavs games 7 out of the 10 days before this footage was submitted, which is good enough for the toothless yokels in Euclid. And it has a giant light-up screen made of 80,000 ultra-bright LEDs on it. Which blinks regularly. It’s pretty quiet, too.

    I’m not saying it IS the Goodyear blimp, just that it’s in the right place in the sky, at the right hight, directly over the Quicken Loans Arena, is the right size, and meets all the necessary requirements for being the object in the video. And has a giant blinking LED sign that can be seen clearly from miles and miles away.

    And that people from Euclid are all too inbred to move 500 feet to one side and check for parallax.

  81. ND

    /me slaps own forehead. A blimp! Of course, that could work too!

  82. Mork from Ork

    This is definitely Venus, a blimp or some other natural celestial object.

    However, I still wonder about the Phoenix lights. Somehow I have a hard time believing those were military flares… I’m not saying they were Greys or Alien craft, but I have yet to hear a plausible explanation for what they could have been.

  83. ndt

    Aerimus, you know how you encourage your child to be curious, ask questions, and take joy in learning new things? That’s not actually the norm.

  84. Bunsen @ 81. That’s just ridiculous. Preposterous. Laughable. Inconceivable.

    The Quicken Loans Arena?!? I mean, seriously…

  85. L Q

    On a side note, I live in Euclid. Bunsen got the wrong stereotype. As a suburb that borders Cleveland, the current Euclid negative stereotype is “ghetto”. You’re thinking of Lake/Geauga county.

  86. Mork, I have watched the video of the Phoenix lights and watched the military training with flares at the Yuma Proving Grounds. It sure looked like what I saw in the video. If it looks like a duck, well, you know the rest.

    Unfortunately, I didn’t have a video camera at the time…I could have started a whole new UFO conspiracy!

  87. L Q

    After watching the local news video of the guy who took the video, it comes over the horizon from the WSW.

  88. paul

    Eugene Erlich, has stated that the object has moved and hovered and that it has appeared
    in front of some clouds. This would rule out Venus. It doesn’t explain what it is, but it does rule out Venus.

  89. It’s Nibiru. She’s a-comin’ for us.

    Say yer prayers.

  90. Bunsen

    @86: L Q – I’m sorry, I guess my stereotypes for you East Clevelanders are all outdated now. I’ll get to work on that. Sometimes I don’t even remember that my neighborhood is no longer Polish. The hipsters took it over, the bastards.

    But at least they’d know what the Spirit of Goodyear looks like.

  91. L Q

    Considering I live probably a few miles from where the video was taken, I decided to check out the sky tonight. Nothing interesting. Some planes, stars. Then again, I know very little of astronomy, maybe wrong time of night to see Venus.

    It was cool seeing the stars, though, considering we see the sun 3 almost times a year: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZzgAjjuqZM

  92. @ Paul:

    This would be the same Eugene Erlickh who said:

    “I couldn’t say what it is, I’m not an astronomer,” said Erlikh. “I have absolutely no expertise in this field, but I can guarantee you that it is not human!”

    …while offering up nothing to back up this statement other than a shaky video that looks exactly like the planet Venus when zoomed in on with a cheap camera?

    Yes, I’m sure that’s the same guy. But he is right…it’s not human.

  93. Pradipta

    The first thing I thought of when I saw the same news somewhere else was “Venus!”. And now I came across Bad Astronomy searching for something else. It should be Venus!! Well, I remember one time there was a big television event in Indian News Channels about a UFO that was indeed Venus!

    People are crazy (no offense, in a very funny way)! ;)

  94. Robert

    @paul: Venus is bright enough to be seen through thin clouds, so could easily appear to be in front of them. Apparent movement in the sky is normal: Ever stood beside a building and felt that the building was moving? Or seen the moon moving through the clouds?
    And of course, none of these reports mention Venus, which would have been unmistakable. Case closed.

  95. 83. Mork from Ork Says: “Somehow I have a hard time believing those were military flares… I’m not saying they were Greys or Alien craft, but I have yet to hear a plausible explanation for what they could have been.”

    What’s not plausible about military flares? They are burning magnesium-Teflon and brighter than the sun (they can cause retinal damage if viewed too closely without eye protection).

    If you take all of directions that the eye witnesses said they saw them and triangulate from the witnesses’ locations, the lines all converge over the military base where the exercises were going on. That’s good enough for me.

    – Jack

  96. UmTutSut

    Jack Hagerty says: “If you take all of directions that the eye witnesses said they saw them and triangulate from the witnesses’ locations, the lines all converge over the military base where the exercises were going on.”

    Entirely possible, of course. But IIRC, some witnessness also reported much closer encounters, e.g., a large, solid-looking mass that flew relatively low over them. Those reports, if true, aren’t consistent with the flare explanation.

  97. paul

    @Robert, your field investigation badge and any other ivestigative privileges are here by
    revoked, on the basis of closing cases based on ill informed prognosises.

    You can’t close a case. Based on what? Venus, through clouds are never going to be mistaken for a ufo. You’d have to be a person with no, NO, discerment.
    To close a case based on your “assumptions” are ridiculous.

    I see your case closed and raise my case open! This could be anything, but Venus.
    That’s my stance and I’m sticking to it. You’re really going out on a limb swamp gas people.
    Get over yourself. OMG, Venus is the absolute last explaination.

    If it was VENUS, it would’ve come out the first night. You people have no discerment, at all.
    There’s no way on Earth this got this much attention and no one in that area couldn’t tell Venus from some other anomaly, please. Get away from Fox news, they are sucking all rational thought from your brains!

  98. I am an amateur astronomer and also Co-Director of the Cleveland Ufology Project. Last night we had people on the lakefront from Euclid to Lorain. We will be reporting our determination of what we saw shortly. I can say that our determination is NOT that it is Venus. Please note that this doesn’t necessarily mean it’s out of this world!
    Remember that most astronomers refuse to believe that UFOs (read ET spacecraft) exist so their explanations are always going to be something mundane. Also amateur astronomers don’t investigate UFOs typically. They just look at the star charts and point to the nearest bright star, planet or meteor shower. The local objective UFO investigators are the best place to start with any sighting.

  99. Jeff

    I taught astronomy 30 years and I’m convinced all UFOs are terrestrial objects or stars/planets. Students often have vague statements about “what was that object I saw last night?”. People who don’t know what they’re looking at can be fooled easily. When I was a kid, riding a bike at night, I’d see the moon “following” me, until in college I learned about parallax and refraction. People are easily fooled.

    George Noory, stop spreading that UFO and end of world nonsense on your show!!!

  100. Venus, through clouds are never going to be mistaken for a ufo.

    They is mistaken.

  101. Buzz Parsec

    Uh, Kuhnigget, he isn’t talking about “Venus”, the planet, but “Venus”, the plural of “Venu”, a model of flying saucer from a small planet near Betelgeuse (most likely the “Venu 2000″, the most popular model with the triple photon blasters and the moon roof). So the plural verb is correct…

  102. Heh heh…my bad!

    At least it wasn’t one of those prognosises!

  103. paul

    @bUZZ, really, that’s the best you have? Nice attempt at humor.

    I guess when the best theory for orbs that appear in the sky 12 nights in a row, is Venus, then I guess you turn to lame humor. When that doesn’t work go for grammatical errors.

    It’s great to watch the heard gravitate towards that one great theory. Twenty years ago it would have been swamp gas. It’s ok to be skeptical, but to cling on to the first theory that they throw at you and stick to that one theory, isn’t very well thought out, or practical.

    Even more ridiculous, it to dismiss all other theories.

  104. Hey!!!! What about MY attempt at humor! Fair is fair.

    I guess when the best theory for orbs that appear in the sky 12 nights in a row, is Venus, then I guess you turn to lame humor

    Guess what? Venus appeared 12 nights in a row! (And will continue to do so, climbing higher and higher each night.)

    And guess what? That video? It looks exactly like Venus taken through a hand-held video camera zoomed all the way in! It shows the same chroma effects, the same atmospheric distortion, the same brightness and position as…wait for it…VENUS!

    Now, please submit the evidence you have for “all other theories,” because, you see, it’s not ridiculous to dismiss them if there is no evidence for them.

    And BTW, 20 years ago, Venus was still the theory of choice. “Swamp gas?” Geez, that went out of favor in the 50s!

  105. One evening last week, as I left work, I saw a bright light above the western horizon. I wondered at the time whether it was a distant airplane or Venus, but couldn’t see it when I got home. (Too many trees and buildings blocking the horizon.) Last night I was out earlier (Daylight Saving Time will do that to you) and tried to spot Venus as early as possible, then watched it set and brighten until it reached almost exactly the spot I remembered seeing that mystery light last week.

    I don’t understand what, in a world full of airplanes, helicopters and the occasional blimp, not to mention a world where we see stars and planets every night, makes people jump past the mundane explanations and latch immediately onto alien spacecraft.

  106. Jeff

    Kelson: “I don’t understand what, in a world full of airplanes, helicopters and the occasional blimp, not to mention a world where we see stars and planets every night, makes people jump past the mundane explanations and latch immediately onto alien spacecraft.”

    you’re right. It’s ridiculous, and I can’t believe a guy as smart as Stan Friedman has spent his whole life researching this nonsense. And guys like George Noory don’t help becuase they popularize this trash to a wide audience

  107. paul

    @ kuhnigget, there’s a difference between lame attempts at humor and blatant ball busting.
    Going off on some tangent about mock space vehicles and busting someone on grammatical errors, is a big difference. No merits for you.

    As far as I can see, there is no clear evidence. None. It’s all speculative. Saying it’s Venus, is speculative, period. Saying it’s a vehicle from another planet or dimension, is also speculative.

    If Venus is most commonly mistaken for a ufo, then I would think that would be the first theory to rule out. I’m sure MUFON , and any other person with even average discerment, would have ruled out planes and helicopters first, stars and planets second.
    This should’ve been ruled out on the first night, First considered, then ruled out, if in fact,
    There was any merit to the theroy of it being a planet or star.

    I’m sure after twelve nights, Venus, Jupiter, stars, airplanes and helicopters would be ruled out. I’m sure there’s someone in that area thats is smart enough to first rule out the obvious.

  108. MUFON! HA! I win! I get a brownie every time some UFO nut brings up MUFON!

    As far as I can see, there is no clear evidence. None. It’s all speculative. Saying it’s Venus, is speculative, period. Saying it’s a vehicle from another planet or dimension, is also speculative.

    Hmm… let’s remove our myopia-matic goggles for a second.

    Evidence #1: object appeared in sky exactly where Venus is located

    Evidence #2: object appears in video looking exactly like Venus

    Evidence #2: observers did not note Venus in their reports. Tough to overlook a magnitude 3.9 object in the sky…unless you are mistaking it for something else.

    So, yeah. Speculation. But speculation backed up by solid evidence. Now…where’s your evidence for anything else?

    I’m sure there’s someone in that area thats is smart enough to first rule out the obvious.

    They have. That’s the point.

    Next!

  109. paul

    @ kuhnigget,

    Evidence #1: object appeared in sky exactly where Venus is located.
    You are throwing that term “exactly” around way too loosely.

    It’s more like: around the general direction of, not “exactly”.
    Evidence#1: tossed and deemed speculative.

    In Evidence#2A:, (I’m guessing A., Since you used Evidence#2, twice)
    Evidence#2A: tossed, based on insufficient data, speculation and more assumption.
    Throwing the word, “exactly” with no “exact” data to back it up, is again, speculative.

    How does a light in a video moving around, look exactly like Venus? It looks exactly like a light moving around, period. Please strike the word ,Venus and exactly, for being based on
    Speculation.

    Observers can’t be trusted, either way. You should know that.
    This time you’re claiming a lack of observing the obvious, not acknowledging the possibility
    that it was ruled out, based on a possible process of elimination.

    Evidence#2b: tossed, based on insufficient data, speculation and more assumption.

    “So, yeah. Speculation. But speculation backed up by solid evidence. Now…where’s your evidence for anything else?”

    No, it’s speculation backed by more speculation. I have no evidence. I clearly stated, any theory, at this point, is speculative.

    So, your last statement is: They have. That’s the point.

    Next!
    If they have ruled out the obvious and the obvious is Venus, then you have conceded.
    I’ll refrain from a pompous, “Next”.

  110. Oh, dear. Here we go again.

    The UFO nuts have no evidence, so they start playing word games.

    Fine, Paul. I’ll play.

    Evidence #1: object appeared in sky exactly where Venus is located.
    You are throwing that term “exactly” around way too loosely.
    It’s more like: around the general direction of, not “exactly”.
    Evidence#1: tossed and deemed speculative.

    No. Sorry, but that is incorrect. The objects in question were said to appear exactly where Venus is located. The fact you don’t know where Venus is located is your problem, not mine.

    Evidence reinstated.

    How does a light in a video moving around, look exactly like Venus? It looks exactly like a light moving around, period. Please strike the word ,Venus and exactly, for being based on
    Speculation.

    Because some of us, Paul, use these things called telescopes, and binoculars, and cameras, and…wait for it…know what Venus looks like! Furthermore, there is no evidence the object in the video was moving around, whereas it is plainly obvious the video camera was moving around. The two do not equate to the same thing.

    Evidence reinstated.

    This time you’re claiming a lack of observing the obvious, not acknowledging the possibility
    that it was ruled out, based on a possible process of elimination.

    The observers themselves did not mention the most obvious object in that part of the sky. They made no mention of “ruling it out.” That’s your speculation, not mine.

    Again, please back up your speculation with evidence. I’ll wait.

    I have no evidence

    Well, we agree on that one.

    And until you find some evidence, I won’t refrain from another “pompous,” NEXT!!!

  111. Mark Hansen

    paul, have you ever seen Venus (or any other object) through a telescope mounted on a light-weight tripod that gets bumped? It does move about exactly the same way as this purported UFO. As soon as our intrepid cameraman zooms out, which minimises the effects of cameraman-induced motion, the light steadies. Again, this is exactly the same as what happens when people stop bumping the b****y tripod. Had our intrepid cameraman used a tripod, the UFO would have been remarkably steady.

    Here’s a little experiment you may want to consider trying out in the interests of dealing with this scientifically. Get a digital camera that can take video (not sure how many do, but I don’t think there’s many that don’t). Find Venus or, failing that, Sirius as both are similar enough in appearance for the purposes of the experiment. Film Venus without zooming in or using a tripod. You’ll notice it stays relatively still. While still filming, zoom in to your camera’s maximum. Watch as Venus jumps all over the place. It’s covered further up this thread but all that motion is from you.

  112. ND

    I woke up very early one morning and saw Venus in the East. It was so bright I mistook it to be a supernova for a few seconds.

    Here’s the thing about this report of the UFO. If the object was to the W, and Venus is in the W, then there would be two bright objects (Venus and the reported object). This is an assumption given the brightness that Venus can achieve.

  113. paul

    No. Sorry, but that is incorrect. The objects in question were said to appear exactly where Venus is located. The fact you don’t know where Venus is located is your problem, not mine.

    Evidence reinstated.

    First, you say “objects”. That one statement would rule out Venus. Here you admit to multiple objects. Even if that is a typo, you say “were said to” said to by whom? You can’t even name a person. So anonymous people are your evidence? Evidence to said “exact” locations. This is your idea of “Evidence”?

    Evidence not reinstated.

    Here’s “EXACTLY” how the skies looked on the 15th of March:
    http://i308.photobucket.com/albums/kk347/sublimy99/Ohiofo.jpg

    Because some of us, Paul, use these things called telescopes, and binoculars, and cameras, and…wait for it…know what Venus looks like! Furthermore, there is no evidence the object in the video was moving around, whereas it is plainly obvious the video camera was moving around. The two do not equate to the same thing.

    The object was not presented through telescopes or binoculars, so knowing what Venus looks like through them, is moot. You say cameras, but you don’t say “moving video camera’s”.
    I know you’ll claim these are semantics, but it’s relevant. The camera’s moving, blurring and distorting the object, thus, rendering it, undefinable!! How does undefinable, translate to
    “exactly”, seriously?

    I submit a picture of the skies on one of the nights.
    That constitutes, at least, some evidence. Balls in your court.

  114. paul

    First, claiming Im a “ufo nut” follows your illogical , jumping to conclusions.
    So far, I’ve stated my clear objections to jumping to the conclusion that it is an alien space craft. As of yet, it is still unidentified.

    kuhnigget says: No. Sorry, but that is incorrect. The objects in question were said to appear exactly where Venus is located. The fact you don’t know where Venus is located is your problem, not mine.

    You state: ” the objects” why are you referring to multiple objects? You also state: “were said to” by whom? your witness is unamed and anonymous, this is evidence? On what night?
    So far, there are 12 nights. The 15th was a full overcast. That can be proven. If you are referring to Eugene Eurlich, he’s not reliable, at least this is what was insinuated by you.

    So, either your witness is Eugene Eurlich, and not reliable, according to you.
    Or your witness is anonymous, which is very unreliable. The burden of proof is yours.
    You’re making a claim that it is Venus. I’m making a claim it is unidentified, as of yet.
    So, me not knowing where Venus is, is not an issue.

    Evidence not reinstated.

    Telescopes, and binoculars, were not named as means of obtaining or presenting the evidence at hand.
    So how they look through these means is moot. Now, you did admit the camera was moving, thus rendering the object, blurred and out of focus. Also rendering the object, unidentified. Leaving all attemps at identification, speculative. Not fact, nor evidence.

    There’s no way to say that a blurred video of a light/orb, which is distorted and a shaky
    camera, pointed in a direction, (obtained by an anonymous source) “exactly” where V

  115. Mark Hansen

    paul, what would convince you that it is Venus?

  116. ND

    paul,

    Is that photo pointing in the direction the object in the video was seen? There are no references for us to tell where that was taken and where it was pointing to and the real time it was taken.

    Edit: Well given the sliver of red just over the horizon and that it’s quite red in one section of the sliver, it’s most likely West during sunset. However the photo appears to be cropped (it’s vertically narrow).

  117. Sighhhh….

    Paul, you can save yourself a lot of time by referring to pretty much any other UFO-related post in the good doctor’s blog.

    I’ll condense for you:

    Skeptical types report non-skeptical/gullible/uninformed types mistaking natural phenomenon for “something else.” UFO nut responds, claiming skeptical types are arrogant/pompous/closed-minded because they see no evidence for any out of the ordinary phenomenon. Skeptical types counter, suggesting if UFO nut has any evidence for extraordinary suggestion, please present it. UFO nut responds with “argument” based upon semantic nonsense and word games. Skeptical types ask again for extraordinary evidence. UFO nut starts making ad hominem attacks, while simultaneously claiming skeptical types are claiming things they aren’t actually claiming. Skeptical types continue to ask for evidence that rules out simple explanation. UFO nut a) offers up something claiming it’s evidence, and also ignores the idea that some people just might have experience with things such as telescopes, cameras, etc. and are quite familiar with the appearance of astronomical objects in same. Skeptical type points out the simple problems and/or fallacies inherent in UFO nut’s “evidence.” UFO nut counters by saying he isn’t really a UFO nut, rather he is just trying to show skeptical types how to be “open minded.” UFO nut then continues to offer up no evidence, irrelevant evidence, or vitriol to counter the skeptical types. Skeptical types don’t budge, and ask why all of UFO nut’s evidence comes from fellow UFO nuts if he is, in fact, not a UFO nut himself (hint: google is an amazing search engine). UFO nuts responds with more, and longer semantic arguments, denials, ad hominens, and claims that skeptical types are closed minded. UFO nut further claims that “the truth” will never be uncovered by skeptical types, and that it is the UFO nuts of the world/universe that will ultimately prevail. UFO nut then vows to go away, because obviously he is wasting his time here. Skeptical types doubt this, because…the UFO nuts always come back.

    Still here? Okay, we’ll do it the hard way.

    First, you say “objects”. That one statement would rule out Venus. Here you admit to multiple objects. Even if that is a typo, you say “were said to” said to by whom? You can’t even name a person. So anonymous people are your evidence? Evidence to said “exact” locations. This is your idea of “Evidence”?

    See above, re: semantics.

    Then, go read the good doctor’s post and follow the links therein. The sources in the video are not anonymous. And they are quite clear about the direction they were looking when they saw the unidentified light.

    Here’s “EXACTLY” how the skies looked on the 15th of March:
    [link snipped to avoid moderation delay]

    That’s nice. The reports linked to above date from March 9th and earlier. Hint: open dictionary, look up “relevant”.

    The object was not presented through telescopes or binoculars, so knowing what Venus looks like through them, is moot. You say cameras, but you don’t say “moving video camera’s”.

    I didn’t say Schmidt Cassegrain reflector, either. “Moving video camera” is not a camera? Eh?

    Paul, cameras use lenses. Whether they are still cameras or video cameras, it doesn’t matter. The laws of optics are the same. And what Venus looks like through ANY zoom lens, i.e. what an extremely magnified image of Venus looks like through any zoom lens, is entirely moot, because if you were familiar with what it looked like, you’d recognize it in those videos being presented as an “unknown” phenomenon. Specifically, and as mentioned in several earlier posts you must have missed, there are chromatic shifts…rainbow colors, constantly shifting, caused by the bright light refracting through the earth’s atmosphere; there are variations in intensity, again, caused by shifting densities of air; and there is the sense of movement… exacerbated when the camera is being held in the hand. These are facts, Paul. That you are unfamiliar with them does not mean others are not.

    The camera’s moving, blurring and distorting the object, thus, rendering it, undefinable!!

    Utterly wrong, Paul.

    Some of us spend a great deal of time looking at objects in the sky. We recognize images of those objects when we see them. Again, that you do not recognize them doesn’t change the fact that many others do. Sorry. That’s just that.

    Now, can we just jump to the part where you claim I’m close-minded and vow to go away because you’re wasting your time?

  118. Geo

    @Mark Hansen

    Mark, anyone is going to say it is Venus…if you waterboard them long enough!

  119. paul

    @Mark Hansen, it would take real evidence, not speculation.
    @ kuhnigget, you googled what? Who gave you the information? That was wrong on so many levels. It says my email address would not be published.

    So how did you get it? I guess everything about this site is a lie.
    Either you run this site, or the person that does, gave you the information.

    Either way, I didn’t jump to any conclusions based on speculation.
    All you have is still speculative. How is pointing that out , nonsense.
    You can go on and on with your tirade, the bottom line, your so called
    evidence, is pure speculation. It’s not conclusive.

    I am going to leave. I didn’t waste my time. I made my point.
    I won’t call you close-minded. You fully exposed your arrogance.
    Mail (will not be exposed) unless we don’t agree with you, then we’ll give out
    to anyone who is argueing against you.

    Nice!

    Hey, at least I’m not you. I can walk away with that! Sneak!
    Don’t bother to retort, I got the last word and I’m good with that.

  120. Don’t bother to retort, I got the last word and I’m good with that.

    Quoting Tweety Bird: “He don’t know me verry well, do he?”

    Okay, Paul, so in addition to reference materials on basic optics, basic astronomy, and basic logic, oh, and maybe a dictionary, pick up a guide to how the internet works.

    Here is a hint: images posted to Flickr are not anonymous. Here’s another hint: posting an image with a copyright that lists someone’s name is not a good way to hide that person’s name.

    But as to your email address: HUH? I haven’t a clue what your email address is, nor do I care. I’m sure, however, if I did care I could probably find it pretty damn quick.

    Now, nighty night! Don’t let the alien bed bugs bite.

  121. ND

    “Don’t bother to retort, I got the last word and I’m good with that.”

    Wow! That’s a good one. Never seen someone so fall apart on this forum like paul.

  122. Well, it was all that spyin’ n’ stuff I was doin’ through teh intertube.

  123. Wow, just in time! I launched a new version of Bing Maps where you can zoom in on the map and select the World Wide Telescope map plugin and see the heavens over that particular area. SO go ahead and find the UFO where venus should be! err, i mean, Find Venus where Venus is! http://bing.com/maps – click try the new bing maps and enjoy!

  124. Mark Hansen

    OK, paul, if you are still here, what in your opinion would constitute real evidence? Reproducibility? I gave you an example of how to achieve that earlier.

    Here’s how easy it is to become a close-minded denialist. I can say that Christopher Colombus never existed. I didn’t see him, no-one alive today has seen him, and references to him in old documents are just the Spaniards way of saying they knew all along that America was there for the plundering. What real evidence do you have that he ever existed?

    @Geo. I didn’t realise I sounded like O’Brien :) BTW 2 + 2 = ?

  125. Mark Hansen

    kuhnigget, you are teh ebil gummint spook!!1!!11!!!eleventy!

  126. @ Mark Hansen:

    Um, hang on a sec while I track down your IP address…uh…okay…just don’t go anywhere for the next few minutes, ok? Heh. Heh. That noise? Oh nothing…just a passing helicopter. Have some tinfoil…

    @ useBing:

    AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH. EVIL MICROSOFT PROMOTERS!!!!!!!!!

  127. Geo

    @Mark Hansen

    Technically 2+2=22 or as we like to say 4.

  128. Mark Hansen

    Geo, that was a 1984 joke. 2+2 does equal 4, but if the Party says, it also equals 5, 3, or any number that it needs to be, all at the same time. Hence the O’Brien reference.

  129. Robert Powell

    It’s unfortunate that true investigational work is not done on these type of cases before everyone starts to froth at the mouth. It wasn’t an alien spacecraft as claimed by people that are biased towards aliens in UFOs. But just as true, it wasn’t the planet Venus as claimed by people who are so close minded that they too, jump to conclusions.

    It is not science to assume an unknown light in the sky is an alien visitor just as it is not science for someone to decide an unknown light in the sky is Venus without the facts. Both of these sides lack scientific thought and open mindedness.

    The actual object that was seen most often, as determined by a MUFON field investigator, was jet aircraft coming into Cleveland International Airport.

  130. dick

    Typical skeptic making up excuses.
    Does “Venus” explain the lights over Lake Erie back in 1988?
    The ones that the US Coast Guard watched move around in the sky for hours and break off into several other lights?
    Maybe you’ve never heard of that one.
    Were the Phoenix lights swamp gas too?
    It’s easy to write these things off as people being idiots and not knowing what Venus looks like even though it’s the brightest thing in the sky other than the sun.
    The fact that some people reading this article take it as the answer shows how weak minded people really are.

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