Phil…if you’re still reading, I see A Photon in the Darkness has linked to you regarding one of your posts on vaccines, referring specifically to a post by a commenter who had trouble with basic math. Worth reading.

http://photoninthedarkness.com/?p=187

Yes, but that’s not the case everywhere, and Phil has pointed this out on his blog, and related epidemics. Once, he mentioned that he wasn’t sure if it was a good idea to have mandatory vaccinations, citing his libertarian bent. He has since remained silent on the issue.

Imagine that bloggers criticised the guilty, but stopped short of any sort of mandatory state-controlled action which would put a stop to their crimes

In most states, kids going to public school are required to be vaccinated.

Phillip if you think this blog appeases anti-vaxxers I shudder to think what would constitute an attack.

Suppose it were another topic which damages people—poison in food, sexual abuse of children, whatever. Imagine that bloggers criticised the guilty, but stopped short of any sort of mandatory state-controlled action which would put a stop to their crimes. How believable would that be?

And Todd’s antiantivax flurf page.

Thanks for posting that. A friend of mine was asking about vaccines the other day, and I feel like I know enough to be of help, but he and his wife have other well-intentioned friends telling him about possible autism links, and the dangers of mercury. One of these other friends tried to say that herd immunity is not real. Any info I can get to help this couple know to keep their kids safe I appreciate.

“But I am constantly amazed at the disrespect and outright hostility to those who hold religious beliefs on this site. It appalls me. For a group espousing an open minded view of the world, you seem to be rather closed minded when religious belief is involved… Disrespect for others isn’t going to win over any people to your view.”

Then, later, you said,

“My spiritual beliefs have zero bearing on my ability to understand and support scientific thinking… But showing disrespect for people isn’t going to win them over to your way of thinking.”

Who here has shown any disrespect to yours or anyone else’s religion? You are the first person to bring up religion on this topic. If your religion has no bearing on the topic of vaccines, why did you bring it up in the first place?

Now, on to the topic….

It’s sad but not in the least bit surprising that outbreaks are happening. It was inevitable. Of course, it will not sway anti-vaccinationists. It will, however, be persuasive for the many on the fence. It’s just tragic that children have to suffer in order to persuade people that for this, the risk of *not* vaccinating is higher than the risk of vaccinating.

Technically, I brought up religion. And it wasn’t just a jab at religion. There are certain religions that prohibit the use of vaccines and modern medical technologies that puts not only their child at risk, but other children as well. That is lunacy.

@18 Tetsubo

As I’ve said, I don’t disrespect the person, I just don’t agree with their beliefs, which is not disrespect. Most of my friends, in some way or another, are religious. Saying their belief is stupid is the same as saying Jenny McCarthy’s (former) belief about vaccinations is stupid, it’s not disrespecting the person, just the position they extoll.

I think many here might be a bit gun-shy from religious folks who feel it is their duty to impose their religious beliefs on the world (lest they “go to hell” or something). For example, the people who keep insisting that “Intelligent Design” needs to be taught alongside Evolution in order to “teach the controversy.” (Translation: We need to push Creationism in the schools and push out Evolution.) Saying you follow a religion, unfortunately, makes people jump to the conclusion that you want to impose that religion on others.

Personally, I do follow a religion (Judaism) but don’t feel the need to push my religious beliefs on others. I’ll talk about them if asked or if I feel it is relevant to the discussion, but I’d never be so arrogant as to try to force someone else to follow it. I certainly wouldn’t try to force my religious beliefs into a science class. I think part of that outlook is the result of encountering too many people who think that my following Judaism means they have an opportunity to “save” me by making me “accept Jesus.” (Most recent one was in a Walmart elevator!)

Well, in QM, Zeus CAN be in both states simultaneously,,,until we open the box and look. Funny how every time we do that, the field collapses and Zeus disappears. I wonder why reality is so damn stubborn as to insist Zeus doesn’t exist? Dad gummed liberal reality,,,

Gary 7

34. Tetsubo Says:
April 12th, 2010 at 7:00 am
@19 T_U_T: I suggest a reality where Zeus and science coexist without conflict.

That means there are two different explanations for the existence of lightning. How can there not be conflict?

18. Tetsubo Says:
April 11th, 2010 at 2:11 pm
@ 12 Allen : Whether you scrutinize my faith or not is immaterial to me. It will have no effect on what I believe. What we are discussing is vaccinations however.

Then why did you bring up religion?

And I don’t lose my keys because I put them in the same place every time.

Phillip if you think this blog appeases anti-vaxxers I shudder to think what would constitute an attack.

Fixed that for you!

* That’s the polite substitution for the stronger descriptive word I’m not allowed to use here.

@ 29. Ramon D Says:

Jonas Salk would never have imagined this controversy happening in a million years…..

In a million years it probably won’t – by then they’ll have died off & the descendents of sane folks will be around instead.

The tragedy is the inadvertant innocent casualties the wingnuts will take with them. If we could only guarantee that just the anti-vaxxers suffer the illnesses they help …

@ 27. dragonet2:

She’s about as deep as a mud puddle as far as I can tell…

The depth of puddles can vary considerably – I’d say Oprah’s “as deep as a lipstick mark on a mirror” instead!

@ 19. T_U_T Says:

So, the idea that zeus either exists or not, is false ? So he a kind of both exists and not?

Actually, that’s a tricky one – the idea of Zeus and many mythical and artistic impressions of him do exist but the actual god does not. So yeah, Zeus both exists and doesn’t depending on how strictly you define the word “exist” & esp. whether you say ideas or myths can be said to exist or whether existence is purely a physical, tangible thing external to people’s minds.

Although I’m being overly pedantic here & yes I get – & agree with – your point.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/glance/1038613/nasa-celebrates-hubbles-anniversary

I suspect she believes what she is told by ‘friends’ like ms McCarthy and wont dispute them because that might cause her friend not to like her.

That’s my take on it. She’s about as deep as a mud puddle as far as I can tell…