Comments on: Andrew Wakefield, martyr

By: VooDoo History » Skepticality - The Official Podcast of Skeptic Magazine and the Skeptics Society

Tue, 31 May 2011 22:06:12 +0000

[...] the Conspiracy Theory in Shaping Modern History The British doctor Andrew Wakefield triggered the MMR vaccine "scare". California is currently facing a whooping cough outbreak. Mr. Aaronovitch is a fan of Skeptics in [...]

By: ColonelFazackerley

ColonelFazackerley — Thu, 03 Jun 2010 12:06:52 +0000

Like Goldacre, I say Melanie Phillips, the daily mail “journalist” bears more responsibility than Wakefield himself. The mail has a less skeptical readership than the lancet.

By: Autism/Vaccine Doctor Andrew Wakefield Gets the Boot

Autism/Vaccine Doctor Andrew Wakefield Gets the Boot — Fri, 28 May 2010 07:02:54 +0000

[...] Dr. Wakefield has been kicked out of the medical profession in the UK, but it’s already too late. He’s already set up shop in Texas. [...]

By: JMW

JMW — Wed, 26 May 2010 14:24:48 +0000

@1 Chip: Nothing more than a cheap plastic martyr at best

Hm. Does he glow in the dark?

On a more serious note, check out http://darryl-cunningham.blogspot.com/2010/05/facts-in-case-of-dr-andrew-wakefield.html

By: Leon

Leon — Tue, 25 May 2010 19:41:34 +0000

Thanks for fighting the good fight as ever, Phil. Your actions help protect my kids as well.

By: Mike Mullen

Mike Mullen — Tue, 25 May 2010 18:54:32 +0000

77. CafeenMan Says:

“Second, I work in mental health and a large percentage of children who get diagnosed are diagnosed because the doctor doesn’t want to get into it with the parent.

So many kids today are on psychotropics it makes me sick to think about it.

Autism is so over-diagnosed it’s criminal. 9 of 10 kids who get brought to my facility (mental health crisis unit) *should* be diagnosed with bad parenting. Instead they get a mental health diagnosis to please the parent or the insurance company but has no merit.”

This seems to be a trend, parents can’t accept that they are just bad at raising children, or that their kid is a brat, there has to be a ‘diagnosis’.

By: Mike Mullen

Mike Mullen — Tue, 25 May 2010 18:44:48 +0000

It’s astonishing how many of those claiming a link between MMR and autism described that near instantaneous effect, and yet when its pointed out that a decline in MMR uptake was not matched by a decline in autism rates suddenly they start claiming it can take years to show up, and not see the obvious flaw in that argument. Sad fact is that the anti-vax crowd have long since left the realm of reason for their own fantasyland where mere evidence cannot touch them,

By: DigitalAxis

DigitalAxis — Tue, 25 May 2010 17:13:40 +0000

@ 56. Lisa May

She doesn’t respond to reasoned arguments? Then give her emotional arguments. Warn her of the horrors that might befall her children if they DON’T get their shots, and that it WILL be her fault.

By: sarah

sarah — Tue, 25 May 2010 15:25:58 +0000

I took my daughter to the doctor THREE times before they found she had pertussis (whooping cough). They didn’t believe there was anything wrong until I videotaped her coughing with my cell phone. And she has had her vaccines. It would have been worse without them. I have barely slept for two weeks because there has been so much coughing. Going without vaccines is just crazy.

By: Calli Arcale

Calli Arcale — Tue, 25 May 2010 13:42:45 +0000

Mary @ 65:
Awesome post. All o fit. Thank you for everything you have done. My mother is moving into the same field (was a foreign language teacher, but as there isn’t as much call for French or Russian anymore, she’s gotten K-12 special ed qualifications now) and will be facing much the same thing.

Fact– there is a problem. Fact– this is not about you–the parent.

That is so true. I remember the epiphany I had about a month after my eldest was born. It was a strange feeling; for nine months, it had all been about me. I had medical professionals practically doting on me, especially during the last month, as we went overdue and I needed to be checked more frequently and get prostaglandin treatments to try to get things started (before we finally gave up and induced at 12 days post, which turned into a c-section, which of course means a longer hospital stay and even more doting by the medical staff). When I took her in for her one-week well-baby check, it was all about her. Well, the doctor did check my scar and ask me questions about my well-being, but at the time, in the post-birth hormones and not having been through this before, I was thrown for a loop. Suddenly, it wasn’t about me anymore! What’s up with that? It took a few weeks before it finally all sank in. I should have known right away, of course, but the heart takes longer than the head (so to speak). Intellectually, I knew it was all about the baby, but I’d gotten so used to being doted upon that it felt very strange when that was gone. Part of me had gotten the idea that it was about *me*, which is very wrong indeed.

I didn’ t have that problem with my youngest. I knew what it was to be a parent by that time, of course, and already knew that her well-baby visits were all about her, and that that was okay and exactly as it should be.

So I think that’s very common. Some parents will come to the realization earlier than others; some perhaps never will. I don’t know what the answer to that is. I do know that a lot of my eldest’s special ed staff and the after-school daycare staff seem disproportionately grateful to us for being involved and helpful. I think they are more used to parents who are either disinterested or who think they know everything.

By: CafeenMan

CafeenMan — Tue, 25 May 2010 13:37:10 +0000

35. TechyDad Says:

First, your response was excellent.

Second, I work in mental health and a large percentage of children who get diagnosed are diagnosed because the doctor doesn’t want to get into it with the parent.

So many kids today are on psychotropics it makes me sick to think about it.

By: flip

flip — Tue, 25 May 2010 12:16:57 +0000

Rats, I keep trying to post something and it’s getting held up. No urls, nothing…

EDIT: Typical. This goes through, but my comment doesn’t!

By: Lawrence

Lawrence — Tue, 25 May 2010 10:36:47 +0000

Of course, people totally forget Third World vaccination programs – where hundreds of thousands of children are saved every year from something as simple as diahrea.

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again – people forget how horrible it was for families to lose two or three children before the age of five to a variety of now-vaccinated against diseases. Of course, medical technology has improved to the point where we now can save a significant number of those children now, but it also means that more children get afflicted with all of the various bad side-effects from things like measles (blindness) and mumps (sterility).

By: Michel

Michel — Tue, 25 May 2010 10:16:53 +0000

How many kids have died since 1998 due to not vaxxing?
If it´s a nice big number he might be prosecuted for genocide.

By: Messier Tidy Upper

Messier Tidy Upper — Tue, 25 May 2010 10:09:42 +0000

@67. jcm Says:

There’s a poll to crash: Do you think vaccines are related to autism?

Done .

Results so far :

No. There is no scientific evidence the two things are related.
16,226 votes, 82%

Yes. So many more cases, so many more vaccinations – it can’t just be coincidence.
3,209 votes, 16.2%

I’m not sure. There needs to be more research.

344 votes, 1.7%

@ 69. Svlad Cjelli Says:

“Funny” thing is that some of the things these people say would be monstrous even if they were right. Would they really rather see their own children dead than autistic?

That reads especially nice (NOT!) if you actually have autism or aspergers – as I do.

By: Jamie

Jamie — Tue, 25 May 2010 10:00:55 +0000

I’ve seen them say it before, and I’ll see them say it again.

It doesn’t matter how much evidence is presented, how thorough it is, how many hundreds-of-thousands of children participated. Nothing will convince the antivax crowd otherwise, thanks to the deceit and lies promoted by the despicable writers at AofA, and their ilk.

I am continually amazed at the hypocrisy of the antivax brigade. If a study is funded by a Government, this somehow makes it corrupt, but the fact that Wakefield’s study was funded by half a million pounds of secret money into his wife’s bank account is irrelevant? The fact he patented a single measles vaccine then publicly promoted parents change to just that, is not a conflict of interest?

Welcome to the alternate reality that is “Antivaxland”. A reality where eradicated diseases are making a comeback, and children are suffering and dying because of it. Welcome to Andrew Wakefield’s World.

By: Svlad Cjelli

Svlad Cjelli — Tue, 25 May 2010 07:55:40 +0000

“Funny” thing is that some of the things these people say would be monstruous even if they were right. Would they really rather see their own children dead than autistic?

By: dave from manchester England

dave from manchester England — Tue, 25 May 2010 07:24:07 +0000

One thing that truck me very strongly when I heard Dr^H^H Wakefield being interviewed on the BBC ‘Today’ radio programme was his insistence that his SOLE responsibility, as a physician, was to his patient. He did not accept that he had ANY responsibility at all to the greater community in terms of herd immunity. He went so far as to say that if he had been interested in such a thing he would have become a Public Health Official rather than a Physician.

He also chose to blame the observed increase in mumps, measles and rubella on the Public Health Service’s decision to withdraw the individual shots in favour of the triple vaccine rather than on his own unproven theories.

He appears to have learned nothing from having his work repudiated, his licence withdrawn and his exposure as an out and out charlatan.

By: jcm

jcm — Tue, 25 May 2010 06:31:11 +0000

There's a poll to crash: Do you think vaccines are related to autism?

By: Dean

Dean — Tue, 25 May 2010 06:09:01 +0000

Lisa May, your “friend” is off the deep end. Good luck to your “friend”…

Mary… A very interesting read, and thank you for sharing it. No doubt the AV folks will launch into full Denial Mode… Once they line up their “friends”….

By: Mary

Mary — Tue, 25 May 2010 05:10:21 +0000

Having a child with a problem can be very difficult. I am now retired, but my teaching carreer was spent working with children with all types of disadvantages—physical, emotional, behavioural, and communicational. Part of my job necessitated helping parents work through the grieving process. ( That statement probably requires some explaining.)
When parents are expecting a baby, they are also expecting that their baby will be ‘perfect’. So often we hear a pregnant woman say, “As long as my baby is healthy”? By that, she really means physically attractive, emotionally stable, intellectually average (or probably above average), and popular on his/her way to becoming a responsible, independent adult. When it is determined that their child will probably not meet all the regular developmental milestones—that life for and with their child will take a different, sometimes difficult path, parents go through the grieving process–grieving the loss of the perfect child. Some parents move through the steps quickly. Others get stuck in certain stages. One mother had many reasons why her daughter was having trouble in school—hearing problems, allergies, this, that, and everything else. It took many months for her to finally come in, sit down and, through her tears, say what she was never before able to say out loud. “My daughter has Downs Syndrome.” Once out of denial, she moved along quickly to acceptance and used her strength of character to help her child and other parents. Acceptance is easier for conditions for which there are defined causes and treatments. (The exception are ones that are caused by maternal neglect like drug and alcohol use during pregnancy. Then guilt enters the picture.) As the cause for autism is not so clearly defined, sometimes parents get ‘stuck’ trying to assess blame for their children’s difficulties. Those clinging to the vaccine-autism link do so out of emotion, not intelligence. Somehow, they believe they are championing their child’s cause and helping other parents from making the same ‘mistake’. This gives them some perceived control and sense of purpose. Unfortunately, the energy they are wasting doing this is energy not available to supporting their child. Being blinded by their anger, fear, and sometimes jealousy of other parents, they can step outside reality and ignore scientific information. It is a hard world to draw them from. Fortunately, most parents do genuinely love their children and I could use that. Some did not like to hear that using their energy to play the blame game was counter productive. My responsibility was to set in place whatever was needed to ensure their child experiences success in school and reaches his/her full potential. Not using their energy to the same end was negligent. There comes a point where it doesn’t matter why their child has a problem. Fact– there is a problem. Fact– this is not about you–the parent. (It seems pretty evident that Jenny McCarthy’s antics are not about her son; but about her–look at me, see what I did, see how I can be your spokesperson, see how I really know better than others, see me make money, etc.)
I suspect some of these anti vax people are stuck in the anger, bargaining phases of the grieving process. While other parents are bragging about their children’s accomplishments, they get their feeling of importance by being part of the effort to proclaim the ‘truth’ about vaccines.
That most certainly does not include all the anti vax proponants, but I do think it does explain some. Nonetheless, hopefully, there is some part of their brain that can realize they are neglecting and endangering the very ones they profess to be loving and supporting.

By: Tinkr.net » links for 2010-05-24

Tinkr.net » links for 2010-05-24 — Tue, 25 May 2010 05:07:38 +0000

[...] Andrew Wakefield, martyr (Bad Astronomy) [...]

By: Las penas del Agente Smith » Cómo ser un negacionista

Las penas del Agente Smith » Cómo ser un negacionista — Tue, 25 May 2010 05:04:03 +0000

[...] evolución, de los peligros del tabaco o de los beneficios de las vacunas (a propósito de lo cual: bonita colleja, señor Wakefield) están ahí en mayo o menor medida, y con más o menos fuerza según el momento histórico (las [...]

By: JupiterIsBig

JupiterIsBig — Tue, 25 May 2010 04:56:22 +0000

#42. @Realisticmom
“Hundreds of years from now historians will look back at this period in our history and say “People in rich countries sure were gullible to propaganda – to the point where they were killing themselves off!””
Unfortunately Realisticmom, I think they will add the rider “It’s a pity we still haven’t overcome it …”

The difference between most of us and the Anti-Vax mob, is if we are shown to be wrong – that there is a link, we will actually admit it it. Given the amount of epidemiological research which shows No link between Vax and Autism, it’s highly unlikely that we will need to.

Unfortunately Channel 7 in Australia had Wakefield on the morning news – they did follow him with a Doctor, but, please help us FSM !

By: Grant M.

Grant M. — Tue, 25 May 2010 04:47:38 +0000

The MMR vaccine has been around for decades. Did an upswing in autism cases occur at the same time? Of course, that wouldn’t prove causality, but if there wasn’t any coincidental increase in autism cases, it would certainly suggest that vaccines didn’t cause autism.

And even if there is a coincidental increase in autism, it could be that doctors are just getting better at diagnosis.