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	<title>Comments on: A delicately violent celestial shell game</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 00:20:50 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: jeremy greenwood</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-353192</link>
		<dc:creator>jeremy greenwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Jan 2011 08:13:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=25363#comment-353192</guid>
		<description>Pink spidery thing in the middle... Thank you for the feedback. Sorry I&#039;m late to respond - forgot my email address.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pink spidery thing in the middle&#8230; Thank you for the feedback. Sorry I&#8217;m late to respond &#8211; forgot my email address.</p>
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		<title>By: Claire C Smith</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-351082</link>
		<dc:creator>Claire C Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Jan 2011 06:21:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=25363#comment-351082</guid>
		<description>Prefer physics to astronomy but this is superb. Not seen this before. Iagine that the study of this is in its infancy. You wouldn&#039;t be doing a lot of geology in it I&#039;ll assume.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Prefer physics to astronomy but this is superb. Not seen this before. Iagine that the study of this is in its infancy. You wouldn&#8217;t be doing a lot of geology in it I&#8217;ll assume.</p>
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		<title>By: Messier Tidy Upper</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-346810</link>
		<dc:creator>Messier Tidy Upper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Dec 2010 11:08:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=25363#comment-346810</guid>
		<description>@25.   Jon Hanford  : Thanks. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@25.   Jon Hanford  : Thanks. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Matt B.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-346369</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2010 20:28:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=25363#comment-346369</guid>
		<description>@16. Ibid. &lt;i&gt;2010: The Year We Make Contact&lt;/i&gt; does it right. A ring whose axis is on the line of sight is easily perceived as a sphere when done like that.

If anything the Death Star&#039;s ring should have been equatorial, since that&#039;s the only plane of asymmetry, and Alderaan&#039;s should have been perpendicular to the Death Star&#039;s ray, since the planet&#039;s rotation would be a negligible factor. So ILM basically managed to get things backward.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@16. Ibid. <i>2010: The Year We Make Contact</i> does it right. A ring whose axis is on the line of sight is easily perceived as a sphere when done like that.</p>
<p>If anything the Death Star&#8217;s ring should have been equatorial, since that&#8217;s the only plane of asymmetry, and Alderaan&#8217;s should have been perpendicular to the Death Star&#8217;s ray, since the planet&#8217;s rotation would be a negligible factor. So ILM basically managed to get things backward.</p>
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		<title>By: Isaac</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-346299</link>
		<dc:creator>Isaac</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2010 17:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=25363#comment-346299</guid>
		<description>@Ibid, #16: Your friend has an unrealistically optimistic idea of movie science. In fact, movie makers tend always toward what is visually interesting over what is scientifically accurate. However, there are many factors which can shape an explosion. You are correct that an unshaped explosion would be a sphere, but other factors might come into play to make the explosion take another shape, especially at first. Not likely that it would take the form of a ring at a dramatic angle, though.

You and your friend might find this site interesting: http://www.intuitor.com/moviephysics/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ibid, #16: Your friend has an unrealistically optimistic idea of movie science. In fact, movie makers tend always toward what is visually interesting over what is scientifically accurate. However, there are many factors which can shape an explosion. You are correct that an unshaped explosion would be a sphere, but other factors might come into play to make the explosion take another shape, especially at first. Not likely that it would take the form of a ring at a dramatic angle, though.</p>
<p>You and your friend might find this site interesting: <a href="http://www.intuitor.com/moviephysics/" rel="nofollow">http://www.intuitor.com/moviephysics/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jon Hanford</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-346238</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Hanford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2010 13:58:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=25363#comment-346238</guid>
		<description>@ 18, 21, 22 re the &quot;central nebulosity&quot;

A quick search of the literature turned up no known pulsars (or neutron stars) related to SNR 0509. Also, I found no mention of a central plerion (such as that seen in the Crab Nebula). It seems likely that the &quot;central nebulosity&quot; is indeed a foreground-background object seen in projection as MTU noted. Given the number of background galaxies visible in the frame, I&#039;d go with a background galaxy (also note the sharp, reddish nucleus (AGN?) and the &quot;bluer&quot; amorphous region around it). Just a guess.

WRT the progenitor of SNR 0509, formation of a black hole seems plausible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ 18, 21, 22 re the &#8220;central nebulosity&#8221;</p>
<p>A quick search of the literature turned up no known pulsars (or neutron stars) related to SNR 0509. Also, I found no mention of a central plerion (such as that seen in the Crab Nebula). It seems likely that the &#8220;central nebulosity&#8221; is indeed a foreground-background object seen in projection as MTU noted. Given the number of background galaxies visible in the frame, I&#8217;d go with a background galaxy (also note the sharp, reddish nucleus (AGN?) and the &#8220;bluer&#8221; amorphous region around it). Just a guess.</p>
<p>WRT the progenitor of SNR 0509, formation of a black hole seems plausible.</p>
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		<title>By: Yeebok Shu'in</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-346222</link>
		<dc:creator>Yeebok Shu'in</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2010 13:00:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=25363#comment-346222</guid>
		<description>@21 / All - purely visually, the reddish faint nebulosity looks off-centre (slightly up and left in the image) - however given that the bubble seems as if it is more compressed in the same quadrant (the wavy edges etc) I get the feeling that it may be related in some way, but that&#039;s counter-intuitive : if the star blew itself apart I can&#039;t think of a reason there&#039;d be a visual remnant anywhere. I was reading the comments and had noticed the smudge before I read comments related to it and that&#039;s the track my brain followed. So it looks right visually but logically it doesn&#039;t fit. I, like most of us here would love to know what Phil thinks :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@21 / All &#8211; purely visually, the reddish faint nebulosity looks off-centre (slightly up and left in the image) &#8211; however given that the bubble seems as if it is more compressed in the same quadrant (the wavy edges etc) I get the feeling that it may be related in some way, but that&#8217;s counter-intuitive : if the star blew itself apart I can&#8217;t think of a reason there&#8217;d be a visual remnant anywhere. I was reading the comments and had noticed the smudge before I read comments related to it and that&#8217;s the track my brain followed. So it looks right visually but logically it doesn&#8217;t fit. I, like most of us here would love to know what Phil thinks <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Astronews Daily (2455548)</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-346219</link>
		<dc:creator>Astronews Daily (2455548)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2010 12:46:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=25363#comment-346219</guid>
		<description>[...] A delicately violent celestial shell game &#8211; One of my favorite types of objects in space are the thin, ethereal shells of gas stars create when they die. So I was thrilled* to see this new image of one taken in exquisite detail by the Hubble Space Telescope: -Phil Plait / Bad Astronomy [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] A delicately violent celestial shell game &#8211; One of my favorite types of objects in space are the thin, ethereal shells of gas stars create when they die. So I was thrilled* to see this new image of one taken in exquisite detail by the Hubble Space Telescope: -Phil Plait / Bad Astronomy [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ne&#8217;er (Fe)rgit&#8230; &#124; Sci-ənce!</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-346218</link>
		<dc:creator>Ne&#8217;er (Fe)rgit&#8230; &#124; Sci-ənce!</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2010 12:46:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=25363#comment-346218</guid>
		<description>[...] speed of this reaction causes shock waves of energized particles that ripple through the core and cast off the outer shell of the star. The resulting explosion heats the shell back into nuclear burning, creating heavier elements and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] speed of this reaction causes shock waves of energized particles that ripple through the core and cast off the outer shell of the star. The resulting explosion heats the shell back into nuclear burning, creating heavier elements and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Messier Tidy Upper</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-346208</link>
		<dc:creator>Messier Tidy Upper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2010 12:15:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=25363#comment-346208</guid>
		<description>@15.   No. 6 &amp; 17.   Jon Hanford  : Thanks. :-)

@18.   Dr Jeremy Greenwood : 

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;@6. Messier Tidy Upper. …any known central or nearby pulsar…
What’s that pink spidery thing in the middle of the supernovenated image? Is that the stellar remnant?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

Quite possibly so. It could very well be that, but then, alternatively,  it might potentially only be an unrelated line-of-sight co-incidence foreground or background object. So I don&#039;t know for sure &amp; would merely be guessing. 

Can anyone further enlighten us all on that central nebulosity&#039;s exact nature, please?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@15.   No. 6 &#038; 17.   Jon Hanford  : Thanks. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>@18.   Dr Jeremy Greenwood : </p>
<blockquote><p><i>@6. Messier Tidy Upper. …any known central or nearby pulsar…<br />
What’s that pink spidery thing in the middle of the supernovenated image? Is that the stellar remnant?</i></p></blockquote>
<p>Quite possibly so. It could very well be that, but then, alternatively,  it might potentially only be an unrelated line-of-sight co-incidence foreground or background object. So I don&#8217;t know for sure &#038; would merely be guessing. </p>
<p>Can anyone further enlighten us all on that central nebulosity&#8217;s exact nature, please?</p>
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		<title>By: JB of Brisbane</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-346150</link>
		<dc:creator>JB of Brisbane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2010 10:09:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=25363#comment-346150</guid>
		<description>@OneEyedJack #13 - Wunnerful, wunnerful!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@OneEyedJack #13 &#8211; Wunnerful, wunnerful!</p>
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		<title>By: DLC</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-346147</link>
		<dc:creator>DLC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2010 09:42:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=25363#comment-346147</guid>
		<description>hm. looks like a star-size soap bubble to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hm. looks like a star-size soap bubble to me.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr Jeremy Greenwood</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-346133</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr Jeremy Greenwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2010 08:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=25363#comment-346133</guid>
		<description>@6. Messier Tidy Upper. ...any known central or nearby pulsar...
What&#039;s that pink spidery thing in the middle of the supernovenated image? Is that the stellar remnant?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@6. Messier Tidy Upper. &#8230;any known central or nearby pulsar&#8230;<br />
What&#8217;s that pink spidery thing in the middle of the supernovenated image? Is that the stellar remnant?</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Hanford</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-346067</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Hanford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2010 02:46:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=25363#comment-346067</guid>
		<description>SNR 0509 is one of three former supernovae in the LMC found to display light echoes (light from the original blast seen reflecting off dust as the &quot;light sphere&quot; expands and moves through the interstellar medium).

The discovery was made using the 4m Blanco telescope at Cerro Tololo back in 2005. Here&#039;s a link to a video showing the position of SNR 0509 in the LMC (this is an X-ray image of the SNR) and a short movie of the moving light echoes: http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2008/snr0509/E509_sm_web.mov

Pretty amazing stuff!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SNR 0509 is one of three former supernovae in the LMC found to display light echoes (light from the original blast seen reflecting off dust as the &#8220;light sphere&#8221; expands and moves through the interstellar medium).</p>
<p>The discovery was made using the 4m Blanco telescope at Cerro Tololo back in 2005. Here&#8217;s a link to a video showing the position of SNR 0509 in the LMC (this is an X-ray image of the SNR) and a short movie of the moving light echoes: <a href="http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2008/snr0509/E509_sm_web.mov" rel="nofollow">http://chandra.harvard.edu/photo/2008/snr0509/E509_sm_web.mov</a></p>
<p>Pretty amazing stuff!</p>
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		<title>By: Ibid</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-346066</link>
		<dc:creator>Ibid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Dec 2010 02:45:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=25363#comment-346066</guid>
		<description>Back me up here. I&#039;m claiming that when things blow up in space in movies that they should look something like this. Sure, a ring might come off of the Death Star, but it&#039;s always gonna be a circle radiating perpendicular to the line of sight. Never at a wonky angle like planetary rings might look.  Never in such a way that the ring would hit you. The blastwave, sure, but not the ring. 

I&#039;m making this claim in opposition to a friend who says that some movie would try to get it right and since all movies show the ring at a dramatic or dangerous angle that&#039;s how they must go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back me up here. I&#8217;m claiming that when things blow up in space in movies that they should look something like this. Sure, a ring might come off of the Death Star, but it&#8217;s always gonna be a circle radiating perpendicular to the line of sight. Never at a wonky angle like planetary rings might look.  Never in such a way that the ring would hit you. The blastwave, sure, but not the ring. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m making this claim in opposition to a friend who says that some movie would try to get it right and since all movies show the ring at a dramatic or dangerous angle that&#8217;s how they must go.</p>
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		<title>By: No. 6</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-345989</link>
		<dc:creator>No. 6</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2010 21:55:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=25363#comment-345989</guid>
		<description>Messier Tidy Upper @6:

IIRC, B^2FH estimates that the Earth and Sun formed from the remnants of a supernova that blew up about 6.4^10^9 years ago.  ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C2%B2FH )  The paper itself is available online for free as well.

I&#039;m pretty sure there have been substantial efforts recently to locate/identify/ the Sun&#039;s natal cluster, as well as &#039;sister&#039; stars formed from the same cloud.  I thought they had had some small successes, but don&#039;t remember details.  Maybe the BA knows...?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Messier Tidy Upper @6:</p>
<p>IIRC, B^2FH estimates that the Earth and Sun formed from the remnants of a supernova that blew up about 6.4^10^9 years ago.  ( <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C2%B2FH" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B%C2%B2FH</a> )  The paper itself is available online for free as well.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m pretty sure there have been substantial efforts recently to locate/identify/ the Sun&#8217;s natal cluster, as well as &#8216;sister&#8217; stars formed from the same cloud.  I thought they had had some small successes, but don&#8217;t remember details.  Maybe the BA knows&#8230;?</p>
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		<title>By: Matt B.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-345969</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2010 21:02:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=25363#comment-345969</guid>
		<description>Makes me wonder how likely it is that any intelligent life in the galaxy would be wiped out by a supernova. Those three stars in the corner look like they might be blinking &quot;SOS - It&#039;s comin&#039; right for us!&quot; (Something to think about for the Drake Equation.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Makes me wonder how likely it is that any intelligent life in the galaxy would be wiped out by a supernova. Those three stars in the corner look like they might be blinking &#8220;SOS &#8211; It&#8217;s comin&#8217; right for us!&#8221; (Something to think about for the Drake Equation.)</p>
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		<title>By: One Eyed Jack</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-345966</link>
		<dc:creator>One Eyed Jack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2010 20:48:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=25363#comment-345966</guid>
		<description>Space bubbles...

So space is really just a giant Lawrence Welk show?

&quot;And a one, and a two, and...&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Space bubbles&#8230;</p>
<p>So space is really just a giant Lawrence Welk show?</p>
<p>&#8220;And a one, and a two, and&#8230;&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: John Paradox</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-345963</link>
		<dc:creator>John Paradox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2010 20:45:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=25363#comment-345963</guid>
		<description>&lt;I&gt;The physics is a bit complex, but basically as the star gets older that wind speeds up. &lt;/I&gt;

Something similar can happen to humans, too.....

J/P=?
&quot;Hey, you kids! Get out of my stellar system!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The physics is a bit complex, but basically as the star gets older that wind speeds up. </i></p>
<p>Something similar can happen to humans, too&#8230;..</p>
<p>J/P=?<br />
&#8220;Hey, you kids! Get out of my stellar system!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-345918</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2010 17:54:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=25363#comment-345918</guid>
		<description>I am wondering if perhaps the reason for the thin-ness of the shell, based on the diameter, might simply be age?  Perhaps enough of the material has dispersed over time, rendering the perception of a thinner shell?  I am still learning a lot about SNRs, especially neutron stars (a particular fascination for me), so maybe I&#039;m looking at this wrong.  Have we had a chance to undertake an effort to detect a remnant? Without that data, we&#039;re all &#039;crap-shooting,&#039; but the model I envision is that the supernova that made this shell (as well as being very old) happened really fast.  A slower supernova would create a thicker shell, no?  Or yes? On that note, am I being silly thinking that supernovas can occur at significantly different speeds for a given supernova type?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am wondering if perhaps the reason for the thin-ness of the shell, based on the diameter, might simply be age?  Perhaps enough of the material has dispersed over time, rendering the perception of a thinner shell?  I am still learning a lot about SNRs, especially neutron stars (a particular fascination for me), so maybe I&#8217;m looking at this wrong.  Have we had a chance to undertake an effort to detect a remnant? Without that data, we&#8217;re all &#8216;crap-shooting,&#8217; but the model I envision is that the supernova that made this shell (as well as being very old) happened really fast.  A slower supernova would create a thicker shell, no?  Or yes? On that note, am I being silly thinking that supernovas can occur at significantly different speeds for a given supernova type?</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-345913</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2010 17:34:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=25363#comment-345913</guid>
		<description>I came for the science, but I stay for quips like this:

&quot;I’m glad you asked! OK, so I asked, but if I were you I would’ve asked that. And I’m me and I did. &quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I came for the science, but I stay for quips like this:</p>
<p>&#8220;I’m glad you asked! OK, so I asked, but if I were you I would’ve asked that. And I’m me and I did. &#8220;</p>
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		<title>By: rob</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-345904</link>
		<dc:creator>rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2010 16:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=25363#comment-345904</guid>
		<description>OT:

Phil,  www.treelobsters.com has a post with an appearance by a certain book you might recognize...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OT:</p>
<p>Phil,  <a href="http://www.treelobsters.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.treelobsters.com</a> has a post with an appearance by a certain book you might recognize&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-345903</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2010 16:41:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=25363#comment-345903</guid>
		<description>Phil, I think the second-last paragraph should read &#039;this ring is over 20 light years (200 trillion kilometers!) &lt;i&gt;in diameter&#039;&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil, I think the second-last paragraph should read &#8216;this ring is over 20 light years (200 trillion kilometers!) <i>in diameter&#8217;</i></p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-345892</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2010 16:06:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=25363#comment-345892</guid>
		<description>@2. Josh: Some time ago, I wondered the very same thing. I also wanted to know if the Sun&#039;s current neighbors came from the same stellar nursery. Therefore a friend and I looked up some information and calculated that in the past 4.6 billion years, any remnants of the Sun&#039;s parent and all of its sibling stars could have migrated to any corner of the galaxy! It is unlikely that we will ever know which few they are out of the 100-400 billion stars of the Milky Way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@2. Josh: Some time ago, I wondered the very same thing. I also wanted to know if the Sun&#8217;s current neighbors came from the same stellar nursery. Therefore a friend and I looked up some information and calculated that in the past 4.6 billion years, any remnants of the Sun&#8217;s parent and all of its sibling stars could have migrated to any corner of the galaxy! It is unlikely that we will ever know which few they are out of the 100-400 billion stars of the Milky Way.</p>
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		<title>By: Messier Tidy Upper</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/12/16/a-delicately-violent-celestial-shell-game/comment-page-1/#comment-345889</link>
		<dc:creator>Messier Tidy Upper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Dec 2010 15:25:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=25363#comment-345889</guid>
		<description>Just one very small nit to pick, here sorry BA,  :  

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;supernovenate.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Didn&#039;t you mean &quot;&lt;b&gt;en&lt;/b&gt;supernovenate?&quot; there? ;-) 

@1. MarkW : Forever? I could be mistaken but I&#039;m pretty sure the star in question here could only blow that bubble once! ;-) 

@2. Josh : 

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;Where is the white dwarf/neutron star/black hole that was left from that supernova?&lt;i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It would be astounding to find that I agree but, unfortunately, there&#039;s a few big problems here - the vast spans of time and distance issue you&#039;ve noted already but I&#039;ll expand on just slightly with this quote here  :  

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Since our Sun was formed more than 4 billion years ago, it has travelled around the Galaxy 16 times.&quot; 

&lt;u&gt;Source :&lt;/u&gt; &lt;i&gt;&quot;Two of the Milky Way&#039;s Spiral Arms Go Missing&quot;&lt;/i&gt; NASA e-newsletter news release 2008-June-4th. &lt;/blockquote&gt;
 
Another obstacle here is that the remains of the supernova - a black hole or neutron star - would have long since cooled and dimmed to a point where finding it is probably exceedingly unlikely. Chances are its long since spun down and it may also perhaps been ejected from our galaxy via an asymetric explosion giving it a kinetic kick away in one direction or, perhaps, gravitational encounters could have caused it to fall inwards and just possibly even have meant it has already merged with the central supermassive black hole at our Milky Way&#039;s core. 

Futhermore, we don&#039;t know what sort of supernova it was and not all supernovae leave &quot;stellar corpse&quot; remnants - if that precursor star was a type Ia &quot;white dwarf&quot; supernova &lt;i&gt;(unlikely given the timescale but can&#039;t be ruled out entirely I think)&lt;/i&gt; :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_Ia_supernova

or if it was a &lt;i&gt;(more likely?)&lt;/i&gt; &quot;metal poor supermassive&quot; pair-instability supernova : 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pair-instability_supernova 

Then the star in question here would have been totally and utterly destroyed leaving no remanant but dissipating gas and a shockwave for its cosmic tombstone. 

Plus, as far as I&#039;m aware, we don&#039;t really know how distant the star that triggered the proto-solar nebula to collapse was from our Sun&#039;s natal coccoon nor, I think, exactly how long the process of nebular collapse and starbirth &lt;i&gt;(*Sun* birth!)&lt;/i&gt; really took.  

So given all these uncertainties I very much doubt we&#039;ll ever find a supernova remnant that can be definitively traced back as the trigger exploder that caused the nebula to collapse that led to the birth of our daytime star. (Sorry to be a wet blanket again here.) 

However, I would love to be proven wrong about this! ;-) 

PS. Thinking Supernova types and remnants - do we know what type of supernova produced this one - SNR 0509 - &amp; whether it is linked to any known central or nearby pulsar /magnetar / black hole?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just one very small nit to pick, here sorry BA,  :  </p>
<blockquote><p><i>supernovenate.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>Didn&#8217;t you mean &#8220;<b>en</b>supernovenate?&#8221; there? <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>@1. MarkW : Forever? I could be mistaken but I&#8217;m pretty sure the star in question here could only blow that bubble once! <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>@2. Josh : </p>
<blockquote><p><i>Where is the white dwarf/neutron star/black hole that was left from that supernova?</i><i></i></p></blockquote>
<p>It would be astounding to find that I agree but, unfortunately, there&#8217;s a few big problems here &#8211; the vast spans of time and distance issue you&#8217;ve noted already but I&#8217;ll expand on just slightly with this quote here  :  </p>
<blockquote><p>&#8220;Since our Sun was formed more than 4 billion years ago, it has travelled around the Galaxy 16 times.&#8221; </p>
<p><u>Source :</u> <i>&#8220;Two of the Milky Way&#8217;s Spiral Arms Go Missing&#8221;</i> NASA e-newsletter news release 2008-June-4th. </p></blockquote>
<p>Another obstacle here is that the remains of the supernova &#8211; a black hole or neutron star &#8211; would have long since cooled and dimmed to a point where finding it is probably exceedingly unlikely. Chances are its long since spun down and it may also perhaps been ejected from our galaxy via an asymetric explosion giving it a kinetic kick away in one direction or, perhaps, gravitational encounters could have caused it to fall inwards and just possibly even have meant it has already merged with the central supermassive black hole at our Milky Way&#8217;s core. </p>
<p>Futhermore, we don&#8217;t know what sort of supernova it was and not all supernovae leave &#8220;stellar corpse&#8221; remnants &#8211; if that precursor star was a type Ia &#8220;white dwarf&#8221; supernova <i>(unlikely given the timescale but can&#8217;t be ruled out entirely I think)</i> :</p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_Ia_supernova" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_Ia_supernova</a></p>
<p>or if it was a <i>(more likely?)</i> &#8220;metal poor supermassive&#8221; pair-instability supernova : </p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pair-instability_supernova" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pair-instability_supernova</a> </p>
<p>Then the star in question here would have been totally and utterly destroyed leaving no remanant but dissipating gas and a shockwave for its cosmic tombstone. </p>
<p>Plus, as far as I&#8217;m aware, we don&#8217;t really know how distant the star that triggered the proto-solar nebula to collapse was from our Sun&#8217;s natal coccoon nor, I think, exactly how long the process of nebular collapse and starbirth <i>(*Sun* birth!)</i> really took.  </p>
<p>So given all these uncertainties I very much doubt we&#8217;ll ever find a supernova remnant that can be definitively traced back as the trigger exploder that caused the nebula to collapse that led to the birth of our daytime star. (Sorry to be a wet blanket again here.) </p>
<p>However, I would love to be proven wrong about this! <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>PS. Thinking Supernova types and remnants &#8211; do we know what type of supernova produced this one &#8211; SNR 0509 &#8211; &#038; whether it is linked to any known central or nearby pulsar /magnetar / black hole?</p>
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