Pertussis and measles are coming back

By Phil Plait | June 1, 2011 12:00 pm

It’s been a while since I’ve mentioned antivax topics here, and a lot has happened in the past few weeks.. and it’s not good.

Our old nemesis measles is roaring back in the US, with the CDC actually issuing a warning for travelers. Americans visiting other countries are bringing the disease back with them, and places where vaccination rates are low are seeing outbreaks. We’ve had twice as many cases of measles so far in 2011 than we did all year in 2010.

As Seth Mnookin, author of The Panic Virus, points out, it’s interesting how there is a cluster of cases in Minnesota, where antivaxxer Andrew Wakefield and others have been targeting the Somali community. Seth also notes that of the cases we’re seeing here, 89% are from unvaccinated people, and fully 98% of the people hospitalized were unvaccinated. He goes on to show the real financial cost of the disease, on top of the devastating health problems it causes.

And we have some unwelcome company: In Australia, pertussis (whooping cough) is on the rise, with more than 4500 cases so far this year.

4500. Holy crap. And this horrible disease is particularly dangerous for infants, babies too young to be vaccinated. It can and does kill them. That is the plain and very, very hard truth. In the article linked above, doctors come right out and say it’s the antivaccination movement behind this; parents who do their research on the internet about vaccines instead of talking to doctors who have devoted their lives to science, medicine, and saving people. These parents, I have no doubts, want to do what’s best for their children, but by not seeking out a doctor’s advice they are putting these children — and others — at very grave risk.

It’s really very simple: vaccinations save lives. And the lives saved may be those of the most vulnerable among us. Have you had your TDAP booster? I have. If you haven’t, please please please talk to your doctor.

Tip o’ the needle to Thomas Siefert. Pertussis image from Microbiology2009.


Related posts:

The Panic Virus
Doonesbury tackles McCarthyism
Pertussis claims a ninth infant in California
Some vax facts

Comments (57)

  1. Just saw an article that pertussis is on the rise in Virginia, too. Last year, there were 48 cases by mid-May. This year, there are 106.

  2. Liath

    I had measles at age three or four and still have the memory of it at age 70. If you’ve ever had the measles you would be very enthusaistic about having your child vaccinated.

  3. As always, click on Todd W.’s name. Or you can go to Facts, not Fantasy.

    Vaccine Times has a lot of great articles as well, especially about vaccine preventable suffering, or this drinking game that could apply to just about any anti-vax nutter.

  4. And for those interested in the Minnesota measles outbreak, I’ve got a summary of the course of the outbreak at Harpocrates Speaks, with links to other posts about the Minnesota and Massachusetts measles outbreaks this year.

  5. Patrick

    Locally there is a big push to get all kids vaccinated against Pertussis. Every grocery store and pharmacy has a sign about it, and it is required to put your kid into a public school.

    We have a deadly mix in my community when it comes to kids not being vaccinated:

    A large contingent of people who are free spirited, and are so open minded that it wandered away (hippies, new agers, anti pharmaceutical folks)

    and

    A very large population of newly arrived immigrants, and the second generation (kids of immigrants) who are poor and don’t have access to the health system, or the education about contagious disease.

    I wouldn’t put my kids in any sort of danger here by leaving them unvaccinated. (I like that firefox thinks that unvaccinated isn’t a word. It shouldn’t be)

  6. Tail

    I’m 65, wife 53 and we both have it. Been coughing for 5 weeks, some days worse than others. Two courses of antibiotic (each) helped, but didn’t fix it. Friends here from Australia say we have what they’re calling “the 100 day cough”.

  7. Charlie

    Just this last session in the Washington State legislature, a bill was put up to make it necessary to have a doctor sign off on the vaccination exemption form public schools need on record here. It was an attempt to get parents educated by a medical professional on the risks and benefits of vaccination before blindly refusing them, or even worse, depending on their friends and neighbors or the internet for factual information. The process is pretty loose in our state. Anyone can sign the exemption and not be required to get their kids vaccinated before entering public school whether out of fear, bad information, or sheer laziness. The law was mainly intended to make sure parents had a good source of information before refusing vaccination. At the very least, it would have gotten the “I’m too busy to get my kids to the doctor on time” crowd in and vaccinated. It wasn’t a requirement of mandatory vaccination. They couldn’t get the support needed to pass it, however. I guess we’ll have to wait until the next session to give it another go-around.

  8. It might all be different after the first successful multimillion dollar civil suit against an antivax parent who causes a disease to spread in a school that kills actual kids.

  9. There have been quite a few measles cases where I live and it scares my wife and me. Our oldest child should be fine vaccine-wise, but our youngest will need the measles-booster shot soon. Given that he seems to be an illness magnet and is susceptible to febrile seizures*, we’re fearful that he’ll contract it before his booster is given/takes effect.

    * During his first seizure, he stopped breathing, turned grey and didn’t start again on his own. You don’t know the meaning of “fear” or “helpless” until you see your grey infant lying lifeless on the bed while your mother-in-law performs rescue breaths… and you can’t do anything to help. I wouldn’t wish that on my worst enemy!

    He’s gone on to have about 4 or 5 more seizures. None as bad as the first, but each one taking years off my wife’s and my lives. Any fevers are met with alternating doses of Motrin and Tylenol to keep them down and stave off seizures.

  10. California is taking action

    http://www.cdph.ca.gov/Pages/NR10-100.aspx

    “Under a new law that takes effect in 2011, California middle and high school students must be vaccinated against pertussis (whooping cough). Beginning July 1, 2011, all students entering 7th through 12th grades in both public and private schools will be required to show proof of a “Tdap*” booster shot before starting school. This requirement applies to all public and private schools. The new requirement was signed into law earlier this year by Governor Schwarzenegger. ”

    If there’s the slightest chance you will be in contact with a child too young to be fully immunized (newborn to 2 months = no vaccine; 2-4 months 1 dose; 4-6 months, 2 doses) YOU should have a booster.

  11. @TechyDad

    Ack! Sorry to hear about your youngest. Given the cases of measles in your area, have you contacted your pediatrician to find out when the booster can be given?

  12. JM Shep

    As a Minnesotan and skeptic, I made sure to get my TDaP booster this year. I also try to encourage as many people as I can to get their boosters.

    On a tangential note, when I went to donate blood they asked if I had any updates to my vaccines, so I told the guy on the phone that I had my TDaP booster, and he didn’t know what it was. I was very disappointed that he still didn’t know after I told him it was for Tetanus, Diphtheria, and acellular Pertussis.

  13. Cphobes

    What concerns me is that people who are vaccinated are getting this, how does that happen?

  14. Quiet Desperation

    Oh, yeah? Well, California alone had 9477* cases in 2010. Those kiwi eating down under folk won’t beat us! Go team! USA! USA!

    *Source: CDC

  15. Lawrence

    Vaccinations are not 100% effective – there are individuals that don’t “take” and may not know – so if exposed, they can in fact catch the disease. It really ticks me off – since measles is one of the dieases that we could eradicate – if the morons would let us.

  16. TC

    So how do the anti-vaxer parents get their kids in school? I know my kids schools (and summer camps) harass me endlessly for proof of my kids vaccinations. In fact they are already asking me for my kids doctor signed vaccination papers for NEXT year. It’s not a problem for me since my kids are all caught up, but how do the anti-vaxer parents get past this? Do they all home school?

  17. @Cphobes (#13)

    Herd Immunity. As Lawrence (#15) said, a vaccine isn’t a 100% impenetrable shield against disease. Vaccines depend on herd immunity to break the transmission vectors. When immunizations drop below a certian precentage, you get a lot of misery.

  18. @TC

    With the exception of two states, every single one has either a philosophical or religious exemption law, and every state allows (rightly so) for medical exemptions.

    So, they either home school, send their kid to a private school that doesn’t require immunizations (like Waldorf schools) or they submit an exemption. And there are anti-vaccine sites that provide explicit instructions on how to get one.

  19. Mark

    Someone needs to drop several vials of immunizeable diseases into a crowd of anti-vaxxers. We can watch as they develop the horrific symptoms, and witness their children slowly dying in their arms. As it dawns upon them the horror that their wanton ignorance has unleashed upon the world, they will look up to us with streaming tears and desperately shout, “Save us!”

    And we will look down upon them and whisper, “No.”

  20. Allyson

    @ Liz

    California still allows the exemption, (which I believe should be called the Ignorant Jerk Exemption, but I’m trying to Not Be a Dick):

    Personal Beliefs Exemption : A parent or guardian may have a child exempted from required immunizations if immunization is contrary to his/her beliefs. Schools have standardized procedures for parents and guardians who request a personal beliefs exemption. Exemptions to immunization should not be taken because of convenience. Unimmunized students are at greater risk of contracting diseases and spreading them to their families, schools and communities. Schools should maintain an up-to-date list of students with exemptions, so that these students can be excluded from school quickly if an outbreak occurs.

  21. Colin

    20. Allyson Says:
    June 1st, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    @ Liz

    California still allows the exemption, (which I believe should be called the Ignorant Jerk Exemption, but I’m trying to Not Be a Dick):

    I just call it the “Dying to be Different Exemption”.

  22. Steve

    And for those of us over a certain age (60yrs), SHINGLES is a major worry. Unfortunately, there is a drastic shortage of the vaccine, so I can’t get a shot. One of my friends had to be admitted to the hospital to get her pustules drained surgically last week! OUCH!

  23. @Todd W.,

    My youngest went to the doctor’s last week and my wife was told that he needed 4 booster shots (including Measles) between ages 4 and 6. They would have done one or two right there, but he was getting over a fever (no seizure this time, thank goodness) so we didn’t want to risk a fever reaction to the vaccine. He’ll get the booster later (but still on schedule).

  24. @Quiet Desperation,

    This is definitely one of those times when I wish I could say “The United States is trailing all other countries in this category. We have the lowest rate of all of them!”

  25. JupiterIsBig

    My father-in-law has had a cough for a long time – pertussis. We were all vaccinated on the free program here in Sydney, Australia because there was a baby in the house. Luckily our little mite didn’t get it, or if he did it doesn’t appear to have been serious.

  26. My daughter found out about the whooping cough epidemic in Sydney when her daughter was four months old, too young for immunisation. She told her mother and I that we weren’t to visit them until we had the booster. I assumed that since I had had it when I was eighteen months old (so I am told) I was immune. That appears not to be the case, so we had the shots.
    My daughter is not the least bit influenced by the anti-vax propaganda, she ensures that her daughter gets every shot when it is due.

    Besides whooping cough, I also had measles, mumps, chicken pox, all airily dismissed, in those days, as “the usual childhood diseases”.

    We live in Australia where we have a properly functioning health system. Here children and those who come into frequent contact with children (that includes grandparents) get pertussis immunisation for free. (And I’m an old fart, so I get flu and pneumonia shots free as well.) The only excuses for not getting immunisation are perversity and willfull ignorance.

  27. zandperl

    I’m traveling to China this summer, and when I got my vaccines they gave me a polio booster. Seems it’s on the rise in rural China.

  28. I got a splinter last fall and here in California the tetanus booster had TDAP in it as well. I was told it was added recently because of the pertussis outbreak. I was happy to get the booster because I have a neighbor with 4 very young children.

    Besides, I was due. My health insurance tracks my vaccinations, which is a very nice feature (of course it will all vanish if I change insurers).

  29. HellZiggy

    When I got my annual flu shot last winter I also got a TDAP. I knew my last tetanus booster was only about 4 years ago, but I didn’t know if it had been a TDAP or just TD so I specifically told my doctor that I wanted the pertussis vaccine.
    My husband got his flu shot at one of his checkups just a few weeks earlier, but he forgot to ask for the TDAP. Then about a month and a half ago we were in a car accident and because he had some minor cuts on his head they were asking about tetanus boosters at the ER. He couldn’t remember when his last tetanus booster had been so he was going to get one regardless, and I told the doctor to make sure he got the version that included pertussis. The doctor then said they could do that but that they also recommend people get the booster that includes the whooping cough vaccine. 0.o
    I think I’m glad we weren’t actually hurt in the accident if the tiny small town ER we ended up in has docs who don’t know that pertussis = whooping cough!

  30. Bob_In_Wales

    Were it not for the anti-vax nutters more of us might be able to say about more diseases what I can say about the first jab I ever received – that our kids don’t need to have it!

    Yup, it was for smallpox!

    Actually, I was chatting to some of my ex-wife’s friends a little while ago and we were talking about vaccinations. I mentioned I’d had the smallpox jab and he laughed. Said that meant I was old. :-(

  31. Mark Hansen

    Keith Harwood, there is a genuine excuse for not getting immunised. Allergic reactions to part(s) of the vaccine. Fortunately this doesn’t affect me (unless they add walnuts to the mix).

  32. Michel

    If Google/Bing/etc would only keep those antivaxxers from popping up in the searchresults.
    Would be a great help.
    But they´ll never do that I´m afraid.
    So.
    How to push up the real good information so those antivax crapsites end way down low?

  33. Karen

    I’m in Sydney too and health professionals are taking pertussis very seriously. The first pertussis vax is normally done at 2 months, but it is now being brought forward to six weeks. My little 7 week old boy, currently asleep in my arms while I type this one handed, got his first shots last week.

  34. Laurie

    I am strongly PRO vaccination…. but even with that attitude, my oldest suffered a seizure within hours of receiving his first TDP shot – turns out he had a bad reaction to the “P” portion. We went through several scary years that he was unvaccinated & had to be kept away from children showing symptoms. Im glad to say he is now 21, vaccinated & healthy.

    Personally – documented in my baby book & verified by my mother – I caught every disease I was vaccinated for – try having Measels, Mumps & Rubella (German Measels) all at the same time….. I survived it but always made sure that my Drs & kids’ pediatrician knew about the circumstances – just in case something similar happened to my kids.

  35. Niall

    Its a shame that these diseases are indiscriminate and often hit those that are too young to be vaccinated. Antivaxxers aren’t just endangering themselves, they endanger so many young lives.

  36. Nigel Depledge

    @ Niall (35) –
    In fact, they’re not even endangering themselves, because most of the antivax supporters were themselves vaccinated. They are endangering their children and other people’s children.

  37. Troy

    @19 Mark, I think there’s quite a few terrorist groups that would love to recruit you. You sound like their kind of people.

  38. Quiet Desperation

    This is definitely one of those times when I wish I could say “The United States is trailing all other countries in this category. We have the lowest rate of all of them!”

    Nonsense!

    Winning!

    ;-)

  39. Quiet Desperation

    Someone needs to drop several vials of immunizeable diseases into a crowd of anti-vaxxers. We can watch as they develop the horrific symptoms, and witness their children slowly dying in their arms.

    I’d would just like to state that biowarfare against children is *NOT* the official skeptical response to the anti-vaxxers. Thank you. That is all.

    As it dawns upon them the horror that their wanton ignorance has unleashed upon the world, they will look up to us with streaming tears and desperately shout, “Save us!”

    And Homeland Security will show up pretty quickly.

    And we will look down upon them and whisper, “No.”

    Dude, even Rorschach never advocated attacking the innocent.

  40. Abble

    So I read this with a rather abject fear. In our area of the country (Orange County, VA), whooping cough was making the rounds. My children are vaccinated, but my 6yo who was born with breathing issues was tested twice because she got very sick. Thankfully, she did not have it. Still, no one recommended adults getting boosters.

    My older daughter graduates from high school next week and my younger brother is coming. While we’re really excited to see him, he & his wife (mostly his wife) do not believe in vaccinations and I have a horrible fear that he may take it or something equally awful home to my beautiful nephews.

    I also finally got up the courage to read Dana’s story, which made me physically ill, as well as breaking my heart. I actually held it together until they said her brother helped carry her coffin. I really think if more people knew this story, their eyes may open just enough to see reason. I like to think so anyway.

  41. Joe Slomka

    I had Whooping Cough as an infant, and my mother says it was very bad.
    I also had Measles at about 7 years old. Ever since then, I have been totally deaf in one ear.
    The docs can’t definitely say that the Measles caused the deafness, but they strongly suspect it.
    BTW, I’m 64 years old, and these illnesses came way before vaccines.

    These diseases are not trivial!

    NY State has started to run TV ads that highlight this problem. It shows a mother talking how
    she had to explain to her daughter why her ill brother would not be around anymore.
    I don’t know if the lady is an actor or a “real person.”

  42. PBMom

    We are not antivaccine. We are for safer vaccines (get the toxins out of them) on a safer schedule, and to push for mitochondrial testing for mitochondrial disorders of infants when they are born before any vaccines are ever given. Vaccines ARE contraindicated in mitochondrial disorders. Two thirds of the children with autism are estimated to have mitochondrial disorders. There are plenty of mainstream doctors who are questioning the vaccines right now. Dr. Sears is one of them. No one ever talks about the children who have died getting vaccines, who are permanently brain injured because of the vaccine, and the absolute tsunami coming of people with autism that will cost our governments more than you can ever possibly imagine. There are always two sides to ever story.

  43. Andrew

    PBMom – I’ll thank you to not compare my child to a tsunami.

    Since you’re not anti-vaccine, please name the vaccines that you are in favor of.

  44. me

    This is silly to blame it all on antivaccine movement. My brother and I were vaccinated for Measles and we both contracted a very bad case. My child was vaccinated against Chickenpox still got it. Vaccines are intended to provide protection, but I don’t think they as well for some.

  45. This is silly to blame it all on antivaccine movement.

    The magical balance fairy has entered the room.

    My brother and I were vaccinated for Measles and we both contracted a very bad case.

    I had an uncle who smoked five packs of cigarettes every day since he was 14 years old. He died at the age of 102 after falling down some stairs.
    Based on this personal anecdote, it would be scientific to conclude…what exactly?

    Vaccines are intended to provide protection, but I don’t think they as well for some.

    All this new-fangled sciency talk about cancer and tobacco..well…(shrug) what about my uncle, eh? The global medical science community doesn’t know everything. I dare to question and make up my own mind. So there.

    Then there’s my poor old grandmother.
    Sad story.
    She foolishly wore one of those seatbelts as she was driving her car. Her car went off a cliff into the sea and SHE DROWNED because the seatbelt catch got jammed shut!
    Seatbelts? Humph. More like “deathbelts” if you ask me.

    We are not antivaccine. We are for safer vaccines…

    I hear you. Oh how I hear you. I’m not anti-seatbelt or anything. I’m just in favour of safer seatbelts. Keep them out of cars until they can be proven really safe.
    ;)

    The plural of anecdote is not evidence.

  46. Nigel Depledge

    PBMom (42) said:

    We are not antivaccine.

    Who’s “we”?

    ‘Cos it certainly looks like figureheads such as Jenny McC are pretty much against a great many vaccines. If that’s not “anti-vaccine”, then what is it? Anti-medicine? Anti-health? Anti-responsibility?

    We are for safer vaccines

    Who isn’t?

    Ultimately, though, if you are faced with a reasonably-safe-but-without-zero-risk vaccine, or the prospect of a disease such as pertussis making a widespread comeback, the answer really is a no-brainer.

    Do you, for example, expect vaccines to come with no risks at all?

    If that is the case, do you also advocate no risks in other areas of public life, such as roads, playgrounds, government buildings etc. If not, why not?

    (get the toxins out of them)

    What toxins would these be then? Be specific. Do you actually have any idea what you are talking about, or are you merely parroting what the figureheads have been saying?

    on a safer schedule,

    Such as what?

    You seem unaware of the fact that a vaccination schedule entails balancing risks against one another. On the one hand, you have the risk of adverse reaction to the vaccine, while on the other you have the risk of the disease against which the vaccine protects. Don’t forget, too, that when it comes to the prevention of communicable diseases, you are not merely considering your own child’s health, but that of all other people with whom that child comes into contact.

    and to push for mitochondrial testing for mitochondrial disorders of infants when they are born before any vaccines are ever given.

    Hey, if your health insurance covers this for your child, you go for it. If not, then you have a cost / benefit analysis to conduct.

    Vaccines ARE contraindicated in mitochondrial disorders.

    Go on, then, let’s have a link to the evidence. Perhaps you could direct us to the randomised trials that have shown this to be so. Or better still, the Cochrane Institute’s summary of meta-analyses. You are making a very clear claim here, that goes against established medical practice. Do you not think you should back it up with some evidence?

    Two thirds of the children with autism are estimated to have mitochondrial disorders.

    So?

    There are plenty of mainstream doctors who are questioning the vaccines right now.

    What proportion?

    How many doctors are there in the USA? And of them, how many are questioning “the vaccines”? What form does this “questioning” take? Are they supported by evidence or merely jumping on the Wakefield bandwagon? (Remember that Wakefield has been struck off in the UK because his study was unethical, and he made up the results, and he had an undeclared conflict of interest.) Is this proportion of doctors significant or just a bunch of less-than-excellent docs hoping to increase their customer base?

    Dr. Sears is one of them.

    So?

    No one ever talks about the children who have died getting vaccines,

    Wrong, the FDA will have details of this. That’s how they compute the risks.

    And, IIUC, the risk of dying from a vaccination is very very low (if not vanishingly small). If it were not, the vaccine entailing the high risk would be withdrawn. This is one of the reasons the FDA exists in the first place.

    Just because a risk is non-zero, however, does not mean it is not worth taking. Or have you never heard of polio?

    who are permanently brain injured because of the vaccine,

    Has anyone ever been brain-injured because of a vaccine? If you think yes, then perhaps you can summarise for us the randomised double-blind study that proved it.

    and the absolute tsunami coming of people with autism that will cost our governments more than you can ever possibly imagine.

    Yes. Strangely, the people who are investigating causes of autism are spending their time looking for the real causes, rather than wasting their time on vaccines that have been shown not to cause autism.

    There are always two sides to ever story.

    Not true. Stories about facts have only one side – the truth. In this case, the truth is that vaccination has saved more human lives than any other invention or dscovery in human history.

  47. Nigel Depledge

    Me (44) said:

    This is silly to blame it all on antivaccine movement. My brother and I were vaccinated for Measles and we both contracted a very bad case. My child was vaccinated against Chickenpox still got it. Vaccines are intended to provide protection, but I don’t think they as well for some.

    No-one ever claimed vaccines were 100.00% effective. Even if they are only 99.99% effective, you’ll still have a few people who are susceptible despite being vaccinated. This is why herd immunity is important. Once enough people are immune to a disease, there is no longer a reservoir from which susceptible individuals can be infected.

    The antivax movement has had a measureable impact on the proportion of the population getting their kids vaccinated. Thus, in some places, there are enough unprotected individuals that an infectious agent can return to being endemic.

    Also, polio would have been eradicated globally about 10 or 15 years ago were it not for the activities of antivax activists in Nigeria at the time.

  48. Chemmomo

    @42 and @44’s reply

    Speaking of Dr Sears (I assume PBMom means Dr Bob, who invented his very own alternative vaccination schedule and published it in a book), exactly how is publicly flaunting the American Academy of Pediatrics vaccine recommendations for profit considered “mainstream”?

  49. truthspeaker

    PBMom Says:
    June 2nd, 2011 at 6:32 pm

    We are not antivaccine. We are for safer vaccines (get the toxins out of them)

    What toxins? What is unsafe about current vaccines, besides their known risks?

    on a safer schedule

    What’s unsafe about the current schedule?

    and to push for mitochondrial testing for mitochondrial disorders of infants when they are born before any vaccines are ever given.

    How? Nobody knows how to do that yet.

    Vaccines ARE contraindicated in mitochondrial disorders.

    Yes, they are. And if the technology existed to screen for mitochondrial disorders, then those kids wouldn’t get vaccines or would get them on a different schedule.

    Two thirds of the children with autism are estimated to have mitochondrial disorders.

    Citation needed.

    No one ever talks about the children who have died getting vaccines, who are permanently brain injured because of the vaccine,

    Funny, I hear doctors talk about them, and Phil talks about them right on this web site. That pamphlet your doctor gave you should have mentioned them too.

    and the absolute tsunami coming of people with autism that will cost our governments more than you can ever possibly imagine

    What does that have to do with this issue? We already know there is no connection between vaccines and autism.

  50. @PBMom

    We are not antivaccine.

    Okay, which vaccines, specifically, are you against and which do you think are okay?

    We are for safer vaccines

    As someone else mentioned, who isn’t? There’s research going on all the time to work toward making vaccines safer and more effective.

    (get the toxins out of them)

    Which ones, specifically? When you answer, please also indicate the level at which the supposed toxin becomes toxic.

    on a safer schedule

    What schedule? Be specific, and provide evidence that supports that the schedule is safer, both in terms of adverse events and risk of infection and serious complications from infection.

    mitochondrial testing for mitochondrial disorders of infants when they are born before any vaccines are ever given. Vaccines ARE contraindicated in mitochondrial disorders.

    Hey, if you can come up with an accurate (not too many false positives/negatives) and economical test that will be covered by insurance, go for it. Some things to consider, though: mitochondrial disorders are rather uncommon and take many forms; not everyone that has one will ever develop autism, and not all people with autism have a mito disorder. Second, fever is one particular thing that can exacerbate a mitochondrial disorder. Y’know what can cause a fever, often at more serious levels than a vaccine? Infections! So, even if someone does have a mito disorder, it may in fact turn out to be a good idea to vaccinate them to prevent a disease that would make their disorder worse.

    There are plenty of mainstream doctors who are questioning the vaccines right now.

    How many and upon what basis do they question? If they base it on science, then what studies do they use?

    Dr. Sears is one of them.

    You mean the Dr. Sears that created his own schedule based on absolutely no science as to whether it is any more effective or safe than the recommended schedule, who recommends that his patients delay and/or skip some vaccines and who, not being able to recognize measles, allowed one of his measles-infected patients to come into his office, infect other children in the waiting area, said to have “a virus” (no testing other than for strep) and be sent on his merry way to start a measles outbreak? That Dr. Sears?

  51. mythago

    Two thirds of the children with autism are estimated to have mitochondrial disorders.

    Are estimated by whom?

    I have a child with an ASD. I am sick nigh unto death of anti-vax paranoids trying to hide behind her, and other children like her.

  52. Annexian

    I trust the science behind vaccines, but NOT the giant corporations.
    If Scientists and Doctors ran the show and weren’t in a position of getting ruined by some big company blacklisting them or choking their insurance payments, vaccines would be a good thing.

    But we’ve seen both an inflation of the things they want kids and adults vaccinated for and the manufacture of these has been largely outsourced, notably to escape wage, labor, safety, standards, etc.

    A corporation is literally an organization built to avoid responsibility, save making money for it’s investors the next three months. They drain wells dry, ruining and starving people to death in India to make soda that’s then shipped (tax subsidized) to the USA to cheat wage/labor laws. They give breast milk formula to women in impoverished countries as free samples then when their natural milk dries charge full retail price, starving babies to death for pennies. Oh, how about BP getting a favor from V.P. Cheney so that they didn’t have to buy a new $100K BLOWOUT PREVENTER!?!?!

    These vaccine companies have a guaranteed market, guaranteed profit and they have their own kangaroo court literally a “Vaccine Court” that handles when their poisons kill people. That’s a recipe for the worst of the worst corruption. Do you think a big corporate CEO would hesitate even a SECOND between pouring some toxic poison into a batch of vaccine to extend the dose if his ONLY goal is profit and he faces no consequence? Likewise, is he going to give any real scientist a say in “This will work/this will kill and sicken people” if it interfered with the profit margin?

    BTW- they are putting Mercury back in vaccines, look it up. The government won’t let individual states block it either. Look it up on Google.

    Oh, and look up a cool site; “Chinasmack.com” A recent article of a few days back shows one of vaccines victims. A healthy little baby getting a mandatory vaccine. Looks like some fake rubber “Pickled Punk” now and dead so might as well shove him in a vat of formaldehyde…. And, just like their toxic pet food filler, date r-pe Aqua Dots, pigs feeding off a garbage dump, it’s stuff that’ll likely get shipped straight to the USA. Wonder how many babies in the USA that batch of vaccine will kill when it gets shipped here?

  53. Nigel Depledge

    Annexian (53) said:

    I trust the science behind vaccines, but NOT the giant corporations.

    So isn’t it lucky for all of us that the medicines industry is the most tightly regulated industry the world over?

    I work at a site that carries out contract manufacture of biopharmaceuticals, mostly for clinical trials. The FDA and the UK’s MHRA both have the power to shut us down in an instant. We are regularly inspected for compliance to ensure that what we produce is fit to be injected into people.

    But knowledge is not perfect, and never can be.

    This is why clinical trials occur in three phases (phase I for safety in a small number of healthy volunteers; phase II for efficacy and safety in patients; and phase III to get some better statistical power on the efficacy and safety in patients).

    If Scientists and Doctors ran the show and weren’t in a position of getting ruined by some big company blacklisting them or choking their insurance payments, vaccines would be a good thing.

    Eh?

    Who do you think carries out the R&D in those big companies? Scientists, all of whom believe they are seeking something that will either save or improve people’s lives.

    Who do you think carries out those clinical trials? Doctors, all of whom believe they are testing something that has real potential to save or improve people’s lives.

    Who do you think carries out the regulatory inspections? Scientists and doctors, all of whom believe they are checking that the candidate treatments will really do what is claimed, and with minimal risk to the patient.

    Where is the blacklisting?

    But we’ve seen both an inflation of the things they want kids and adults vaccinated for

    Yes. What of it?

    Given that vaccination is the single most successful medical intervention ever discovered, why should scientists and drug companies not investigate vaccines for diseases for which no vaccine currently exists?

    And when a new vaccine is discovered, why should doctors NOT then propagate these vaccines to their patients? Why should governments NOT recommend that these vaccines are administered?

    and the manufacture of these has been largely outsourced, notably to escape wage, labor, safety, standards, etc.

    Rubbish.

    If a plant in India (say) manufactures medicines to be used in the USA, it must still submit to inspection and audit by the FDA. If it manufactures medicine for the UK, it must still submit to inspection and audit by the MHRA. And so on.

    Wages may be lower in the developing world, and therefore money may be saved by relocating an operation there, but safety standards cannot be compromised without risking the loss of the licence to sell the stuff being made.

    A corporation is literally an organization built to avoid responsibility, save making money for it’s investors the next three months.

    Kind of. But this does not mean that all corporations behave this way. It may surprise you to learn that corporations employ people, and these people have consciences.

    They drain wells dry, ruining and starving people to death in India to make soda that’s then shipped (tax subsidized) to the USA to cheat wage/labor laws.

    What has this to do with vaccines?

    . . . These vaccine companies have a guaranteed market,

    No, they don’t, because there’s more than one company making vaccines, and they are subject to regulation. None of them has a guaranteed market for their product. Any one of them could be shut down by the regulators for failing to comply with the relevant standards (incidentally, the standards are collectively known as Good Manufacturing Practice, and the full set of them is a stack of books about 3 feet high).

    guaranteed profit

    Not guaranteed, because they can always be undercut by a competitor.

    and they have their own kangaroo court literally a “Vaccine Court” that handles when their poisons kill people.

    This is a childish caricature of the reality of this court.

    Without the court (I don’t recall its official title), the risk to a company considering the manufacture of vaccines for use in the USA is too great. The court exists to both ensure that anyone adversely affected by a vaccine receives compensation and to ensure that the compensation payment is not crippling to the vaccine manufacturer. Interestingly, it has the lowest standards for evidence in any court anywhere.

    Cases awarded in this court would often not be awarded in an actual criminal court due to inadequate evidence. So, is this court a good thing or a bad thing?

    That’s a recipe for the worst of the worst corruption.

    Do you have any evidence that the court is corrupt?

    Do you think a big corporate CEO would hesitate even a SECOND between pouring some toxic poison into a batch of vaccine to extend the dose if his ONLY goal is profit and he faces no consequence?

    And do you think for a second that his QC department would let him get away with it?

    In fact, in pretty much any plant making medicines, the execs are not allowed into the plant. Not for any philosophical reason, but because their role does not involve being trained in the procedures required to enter a cleanroom environment.

    Likewise, is he going to give any real scientist a say in “This will work/this will kill and sicken people” if it interfered with the profit margin?

    How can any company exec prevent a scientist from saying this?

    In the short term, it is kinda doable, because you hear of clinical trials where the result is undesirable going unpublished. But the point is you hear of them. Sooner or later the people whose work went unpublished will tell.

  54. Mark Hansen

    There you go ND. An example of Trollus rabidus for your collection :)

  55. Nigel Depledge
  56. Elizabeth Roper

    I have news for the “evil pharmaceutical companies” drum beaters: vaccines don’t make big money. That’s because they’re too good. You take them once or twice and can then forget about that disease for 10 years to life.

    And most of them aren’t patented, so there are multiple sources that compete on price.

    If everyone stopped taking vaccines, drug company profits would soar. All those sick people use a lot more medicine.

    The kind of drug that makes a pharamceutical CEO’s eyes light up with dollar signs is a new blood pressure pill. Or some other drug that is taken daily by many many people for many many years. Something that’s a temporary treatment, not a golden-bullet cure.

    There are lots of perverse incentives in the pharmaceutical industry, but huge profits generated by vaccines (other than new single-source ones like Gardasil) are purely imaginary.

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