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	<title>Comments on: In astronomy, a polarizing view is good</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
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		<title>By: The Vanishing Rainbow [VIDEO] - The River 100.5 FM</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/comment-page-1/#comment-408330</link>
		<dc:creator>The Vanishing Rainbow [VIDEO] - The River 100.5 FM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Aug 2011 21:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=36149#comment-408330</guid>
		<description>[...] about polarization, how light gets polarized, and how that relates to rainbows. It&#8217;s quick, it&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] about polarization, how light gets polarized, and how that relates to rainbows. It&#8217;s quick, it&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dragonchild</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/comment-page-1/#comment-408134</link>
		<dc:creator>Dragonchild</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Aug 2011 00:43:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=36149#comment-408134</guid>
		<description>Pretty much anything viewed from over 10 billion light years out will look &quot;young&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pretty much anything viewed from over 10 billion light years out will look &#8220;young&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt Hayes</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/comment-page-1/#comment-407635</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Hayes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 19:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=36149#comment-407635</guid>
		<description>Oh, very nice post @Robin!   The work described here was measuring linear polarization; just Stokes Q and U. So we used 4 angles of a half-wave plate: 0, 22.5, 45,  and 67.5 degrees.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, very nice post @Robin!   The work described here was measuring linear polarization; just Stokes Q and U. So we used 4 angles of a half-wave plate: 0, 22.5, 45,  and 67.5 degrees.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/comment-page-1/#comment-407417</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 08:03:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=36149#comment-407417</guid>
		<description>@ Chris (#10):

The situation you describe (for instance a horizontal linear polarizer followed by a 45° linear polarizer, which is in turn followed by a vertical linear polarizer) doesn&#039;t have to be addressed at all by quantum mechanics and  is perfectly described by using the wave nature of light.  With all the light being horizontally polarized (after passing thru the first polarizer), it is incident on the  45° linear polarizer.  The horizontally polarized light is made of components of 45° polarized light and 135° polarized light, thus the 45° polarized component passes thru the 45° linear polarizer.  Similarly, 45° polarized light is made up of components of linearly polarized and vertically polarized light, thus the vertically polarized component passes through the laser filter to the user&#039;s eye.  There are several good references for Jones Calculus (which is used to calculate how polarization changes when passing through or reflection off optical components) on the internet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Chris (#10):</p>
<p>The situation you describe (for instance a horizontal linear polarizer followed by a 45° linear polarizer, which is in turn followed by a vertical linear polarizer) doesn&#8217;t have to be addressed at all by quantum mechanics and  is perfectly described by using the wave nature of light.  With all the light being horizontally polarized (after passing thru the first polarizer), it is incident on the  45° linear polarizer.  The horizontally polarized light is made of components of 45° polarized light and 135° polarized light, thus the 45° polarized component passes thru the 45° linear polarizer.  Similarly, 45° polarized light is made up of components of linearly polarized and vertically polarized light, thus the vertically polarized component passes through the laser filter to the user&#8217;s eye.  There are several good references for Jones Calculus (which is used to calculate how polarization changes when passing through or reflection off optical components) on the internet.</p>
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		<title>By: Robin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/comment-page-1/#comment-407412</link>
		<dc:creator>Robin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 07:52:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=36149#comment-407412</guid>
		<description>@ Ken B (#1):  Polarimeters come in various types, some that have sensors behind fixed polarizers (for example a horizontal linear polarizer, a linear polarizer rotated to 45°, and a circular polarizer) and some with a sensor or two behind rotating elements or elements that can be automatically moved into the light path and then moved out to be replaced by another).  In all cases they determine how much of the light is in a given polarization state (horizontally linearly polarized, vertically linearly polarized, linearly polarized at 45°, linearly polarized at 135°, left circular polarized, or right circular polarized) and thus how much of all the light is polarized.  Devices can also be built to not only act as a polarimeter but also to image a scene in a given polarization state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Ken B (#1):  Polarimeters come in various types, some that have sensors behind fixed polarizers (for example a horizontal linear polarizer, a linear polarizer rotated to 45°, and a circular polarizer) and some with a sensor or two behind rotating elements or elements that can be automatically moved into the light path and then moved out to be replaced by another).  In all cases they determine how much of the light is in a given polarization state (horizontally linearly polarized, vertically linearly polarized, linearly polarized at 45°, linearly polarized at 135°, left circular polarized, or right circular polarized) and thus how much of all the light is polarized.  Devices can also be built to not only act as a polarimeter but also to image a scene in a given polarization state.</p>
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		<title>By: Jamey</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/comment-page-1/#comment-407395</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 06:07:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=36149#comment-407395</guid>
		<description>@Matt Hayes - THANK YOU VERY MUCH!  Whoot!  That does explain it somewhat.  Give me a while to wrap my head around it, and I&#039;ll maybe understand it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Matt Hayes &#8211; THANK YOU VERY MUCH!  Whoot!  That does explain it somewhat.  Give me a while to wrap my head around it, and I&#8217;ll maybe understand it!</p>
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		<title>By: Pardot</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/comment-page-1/#comment-407340</link>
		<dc:creator>Pardot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Aug 2011 02:41:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=36149#comment-407340</guid>
		<description>@Messier Tidy Upper: I, too, thought it was Hanny&#039;s Voorwerp at first (and second, and third) glance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Messier Tidy Upper: I, too, thought it was Hanny&#8217;s Voorwerp at first (and second, and third) glance.</p>
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		<title>By: CB</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/comment-page-1/#comment-407244</link>
		<dc:creator>CB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 22:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=36149#comment-407244</guid>
		<description>@ Matt Hayes:

Thanks for the explanation, that&#039;s very interesting!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Matt Hayes:</p>
<p>Thanks for the explanation, that&#8217;s very interesting!</p>
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		<title>By: Evolving Squid</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/comment-page-1/#comment-407160</link>
		<dc:creator>Evolving Squid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 20:04:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=36149#comment-407160</guid>
		<description>IIRC, light reflecting off a non-metallic surface will be polarized to some degree, and the angle at which it reflects can affect the amount of polarization.

It is also possible to see the polarization of light with the human eye, but it&#039;s difficult.

See: http://www.squidzone.ca/?p=204</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IIRC, light reflecting off a non-metallic surface will be polarized to some degree, and the angle at which it reflects can affect the amount of polarization.</p>
<p>It is also possible to see the polarization of light with the human eye, but it&#8217;s difficult.</p>
<p>See: <a href="http://www.squidzone.ca/?p=204" rel="nofollow">http://www.squidzone.ca/?p=204</a></p>
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		<title>By: Matt Hayes</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/comment-page-1/#comment-407088</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Hayes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 17:39:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=36149#comment-407088</guid>
		<description>@Jamey - that&#039;s a very insightful question. 

Hi, I&#039;m an author of the paper. I tried to answer a few other questions, but my posts seem not to appear. I will try once more....

The surface in this case is basically a surface in optical depth; a surface beyond which photons will have passed a certain depth of gas. When light of any kind travels through a gas the photons travel - on average - until the probability of their interaction becomes 1. Or very loosely, until they have crossed an optical depth of 1. What determines this optical depth, and the interaction probability at a given position, is just the density of the medium. That&#039;s your surface - it&#039;s a pretty deep one, but a &#039;surface&#039; nonetheless. 

Then, in the scenario where photons are produced centrally and travel outward radially, in every direction, at some point they traverse a high enough depth of gas that on average they reach the point where their interaction probability has become ~1. Here they scatter. Now, the critical point here is that for Ly-alpha and the hydrogen atom, the polarization fraction is highest when photons scatter at an angle of about 90 degrees. It&#039;s analogous to Rayleigh scattering, and the reason why the blue sky is polarized in a ring around the sun. Thus photons that travel initially in the plane of the observations - the x,y plane only - that are observed after scattering, can *only* have scettered through ~90 degrees; otherwise they would not be observable. Photons that travel in our direction initially and scatter through 90 deg in any direction can never be seen. Similarly photons that star off coming in our direction, scatter, and are subsequently observed can not have scattered through 90 degrees, and will exhibit low polarization fractions. So in the case where photons are produced centrally and scatter at large radii, the prediction is an increase in the  fraction of polarization with radius. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Jamey &#8211; that&#8217;s a very insightful question. </p>
<p>Hi, I&#8217;m an author of the paper. I tried to answer a few other questions, but my posts seem not to appear. I will try once more&#8230;.</p>
<p>The surface in this case is basically a surface in optical depth; a surface beyond which photons will have passed a certain depth of gas. When light of any kind travels through a gas the photons travel &#8211; on average &#8211; until the probability of their interaction becomes 1. Or very loosely, until they have crossed an optical depth of 1. What determines this optical depth, and the interaction probability at a given position, is just the density of the medium. That&#8217;s your surface &#8211; it&#8217;s a pretty deep one, but a &#8216;surface&#8217; nonetheless. </p>
<p>Then, in the scenario where photons are produced centrally and travel outward radially, in every direction, at some point they traverse a high enough depth of gas that on average they reach the point where their interaction probability has become ~1. Here they scatter. Now, the critical point here is that for Ly-alpha and the hydrogen atom, the polarization fraction is highest when photons scatter at an angle of about 90 degrees. It&#8217;s analogous to Rayleigh scattering, and the reason why the blue sky is polarized in a ring around the sun. Thus photons that travel initially in the plane of the observations &#8211; the x,y plane only &#8211; that are observed after scattering, can *only* have scettered through ~90 degrees; otherwise they would not be observable. Photons that travel in our direction initially and scatter through 90 deg in any direction can never be seen. Similarly photons that star off coming in our direction, scatter, and are subsequently observed can not have scattered through 90 degrees, and will exhibit low polarization fractions. So in the case where photons are produced centrally and scatter at large radii, the prediction is an increase in the  fraction of polarization with radius.</p>
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		<title>By: Messier Tidy Upper</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/comment-page-1/#comment-407082</link>
		<dc:creator>Messier Tidy Upper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 17:25:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=36149#comment-407082</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;The gas cloud is being lit up by galaxies inside it. Since the galaxies are young, they’re probably undergoing furious bouts of star formation, which means they’re pouring out Lyman-α. It’s this that’s getting scattered and polarized by the gas cloud.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So can we say that these young, distant galaxies are all wearing one huge LAB coat then? ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><i>The gas cloud is being lit up by galaxies inside it. Since the galaxies are young, they’re probably undergoing furious bouts of star formation, which means they’re pouring out Lyman-α. It’s this that’s getting scattered and polarized by the gas cloud.</i></p></blockquote>
<p>So can we say that these young, distant galaxies are all wearing one huge LAB coat then? <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Messier Tidy Upper</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/comment-page-1/#comment-407064</link>
		<dc:creator>Messier Tidy Upper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 16:34:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=36149#comment-407064</guid>
		<description>D&#039;oh! Spelling memory fail. :-(

Make that Hanny&#039;s &lt;strike&gt;Voorweep&lt;/strike&gt; &lt;b&gt;Voorwerp&lt;/b&gt; instead.
(No wonder it took me a while to find online images &amp; info.)

See : 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanny%27s_Voorwerp 

&amp; 

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap080625.html

&amp; 

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/01/11/voorwerp/ 

for comparison. :-)

BTW. Wikipedia is featuring : 

&lt;blockquote&gt;Astronomers announce that TrES-2b &lt;i&gt;[aka Kepler-1b - ed.]&lt;/i&gt; has the lowest known albedo of any planet, reflecting less than 1% of the starlight falling upon it.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

on its main front news page currently in case folks are interested. :-)

I think I remember space-dot-com having a news item on that Hot Jupiter recently too. 

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>D&#8217;oh! Spelling memory fail. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':-(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Make that Hanny&#8217;s <strike>Voorweep</strike> <b>Voorwerp</b> instead.<br />
(No wonder it took me a while to find online images &amp; info.)</p>
<p>See : </p>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanny%27s_Voorwerp" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanny%27s_Voorwerp</a> </p>
<p>&amp; </p>
<p><a href="http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap080625.html" rel="nofollow">http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap080625.html</a></p>
<p>&amp; </p>
<p><a href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/01/11/voorwerp/" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/01/11/voorwerp/</a> </p>
<p>for comparison. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>BTW. Wikipedia is featuring : </p>
<blockquote><p>Astronomers announce that TrES-2b <i>[aka Kepler-1b - ed.]</i> has the lowest known albedo of any planet, reflecting less than 1% of the starlight falling upon it.</p></blockquote>
<p>on its main front news page currently in case folks are interested. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I think I remember space-dot-com having a news item on that Hot Jupiter recently too.</p>
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		<title>By: Messier Tidy Upper</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/comment-page-1/#comment-407053</link>
		<dc:creator>Messier Tidy Upper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 16:15:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=36149#comment-407053</guid>
		<description>So can we expect to have a polarised debate now? ;-) 8) 

Remarkable discovery - &amp; great write-up BA thanks - reminds me of Hanny&#039;s Voorweep a bit in appearance. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So can we expect to have a polarised debate now? <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Remarkable discovery &#8211; &amp; great write-up BA thanks &#8211; reminds me of Hanny&#8217;s Voorweep a bit in appearance. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Jamey</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/comment-page-1/#comment-407051</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 16:11:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=36149#comment-407051</guid>
		<description>What coordinates the polarization across the size of the body?  I would presume that since the emitted light is randomly polarized, and the molecules it hits are randomly rotated, moving in generally a random manner, and the photon is hitting the molecule at a random point in the waveform...  What provides the aligning factor?

It&#039;s fairly easy to see that light bouncing from an interface, such as the surface of water, or the hot air/cold air boundary above a road surface, would have an orientation based on that surface - oriented elsewise, it&#039;s going to go elsewhere.  But supposedly these galaxies are located within the LAB, and the edges of the blob are going to be too gradual to really make a good interface to bounce off of - and for that matter, the edges are pretty random...

Other polarized phenomena in space, I can understand - masers depend on one photon exciting the emission of the next, so it&#039;s easy to see why their polarization would be aligned, and synchrotron radiation has the plane in which the radiation is being curved to provide alignment.  Pulsars have their magnetic field - likewise sunspots and solar flares...

So - how do the photons communicate to know which way they&#039;re supposed to line up in this LAB?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What coordinates the polarization across the size of the body?  I would presume that since the emitted light is randomly polarized, and the molecules it hits are randomly rotated, moving in generally a random manner, and the photon is hitting the molecule at a random point in the waveform&#8230;  What provides the aligning factor?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s fairly easy to see that light bouncing from an interface, such as the surface of water, or the hot air/cold air boundary above a road surface, would have an orientation based on that surface &#8211; oriented elsewise, it&#8217;s going to go elsewhere.  But supposedly these galaxies are located within the LAB, and the edges of the blob are going to be too gradual to really make a good interface to bounce off of &#8211; and for that matter, the edges are pretty random&#8230;</p>
<p>Other polarized phenomena in space, I can understand &#8211; masers depend on one photon exciting the emission of the next, so it&#8217;s easy to see why their polarization would be aligned, and synchrotron radiation has the plane in which the radiation is being curved to provide alignment.  Pulsars have their magnetic field &#8211; likewise sunspots and solar flares&#8230;</p>
<p>So &#8211; how do the photons communicate to know which way they&#8217;re supposed to line up in this LAB?</p>
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		<title>By: Ken B</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/comment-page-1/#comment-407049</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 16:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=36149#comment-407049</guid>
		<description>Piper:
&lt;blockquote&gt;What I don’t get is this: how can you distinguish between a distant gas blob emitting ultraviolet, red-shifted to appear green, and a nearby gas blob emitting green?&lt;/blockquote&gt;I&#039;ve often wondered that myself.  My understanding now is that they look at the object&#039;s entire spectrum, not just particular wavelengths.  It&#039;s not just &quot;Lyman-α has been shifted into the green&quot;, but rather &quot;if we shift the entire spectrum back X, everything lines up with known emissions&quot;, heavily implying that everything was shifted by X in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Piper:</p>
<blockquote><p>What I don’t get is this: how can you distinguish between a distant gas blob emitting ultraviolet, red-shifted to appear green, and a nearby gas blob emitting green?</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;ve often wondered that myself.  My understanding now is that they look at the object&#8217;s entire spectrum, not just particular wavelengths.  It&#8217;s not just &#8220;Lyman-α has been shifted into the green&#8221;, but rather &#8220;if we shift the entire spectrum back X, everything lines up with known emissions&#8221;, heavily implying that everything was shifted by X in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: eyesoars</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/comment-page-1/#comment-407047</link>
		<dc:creator>eyesoars</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 16:01:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=36149#comment-407047</guid>
		<description>Piper@9:

  The trick is looking at a detailed spectrum.  Various elements in the gas absorb very specific frequencies of light in distinct patterns, and looking at a spectogram will show lots of &quot;drop outs&quot; where frequencies have been completely or nearly completely absorbed.  You can then line these drop-outs up, and figure out how much the lines have been shifted, telling you the distance of the intervening gas (and its composition:  oxygen has different lines in a different pattern than, say, sulfur or iron or nitrogen).

Most often the intervening gas is in the envelope of the star.  However, for distant galaxies, sometimes several sets of aborption lines can be found, corresponding to clouds of gas between the source and us, each taking out the same set of frequencies, each red-shifted by a different amount.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Piper@9:</p>
<p>  The trick is looking at a detailed spectrum.  Various elements in the gas absorb very specific frequencies of light in distinct patterns, and looking at a spectogram will show lots of &#8220;drop outs&#8221; where frequencies have been completely or nearly completely absorbed.  You can then line these drop-outs up, and figure out how much the lines have been shifted, telling you the distance of the intervening gas (and its composition:  oxygen has different lines in a different pattern than, say, sulfur or iron or nitrogen).</p>
<p>Most often the intervening gas is in the envelope of the star.  However, for distant galaxies, sometimes several sets of aborption lines can be found, corresponding to clouds of gas between the source and us, each taking out the same set of frequencies, each red-shifted by a different amount.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/comment-page-1/#comment-407046</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 16:00:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=36149#comment-407046</guid>
		<description>DeepField:  the expansion of the universe makes objects at extreme distances look larger than they otherwise would be (this also reduces their surface brightness, an effect that can be used to distinguish the cosmological redshift from &quot;tired light&quot; theories.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DeepField:  the expansion of the universe makes objects at extreme distances look larger than they otherwise would be (this also reduces their surface brightness, an effect that can be used to distinguish the cosmological redshift from &#8220;tired light&#8221; theories.)</p>
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		<title>By: CB</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/comment-page-1/#comment-407045</link>
		<dc:creator>CB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 15:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=36149#comment-407045</guid>
		<description>@ Chris:
Heh, those are fun.   I&#039;m fascinated just by the things you can see driving around.  Like, most tinted windows appear to have a checker-board pattern in them.  Also a lot of automotive paint jobs, especially dark but shiny ones, will show up as a rainbow of colors that changes as you rotate your head.

Another fun game is to go into a store, find some sunglasses that claim to be polarized, and hold them up together perpendicular and see that they aren&#039;t nearly opaque as they should be, and then inform the clerk on duty that these glasses are not actually polarized and that&#039;s false advertising.  The game is to see if they care.  Hint:  Probably not!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Chris:<br />
Heh, those are fun.   I&#8217;m fascinated just by the things you can see driving around.  Like, most tinted windows appear to have a checker-board pattern in them.  Also a lot of automotive paint jobs, especially dark but shiny ones, will show up as a rainbow of colors that changes as you rotate your head.</p>
<p>Another fun game is to go into a store, find some sunglasses that claim to be polarized, and hold them up together perpendicular and see that they aren&#8217;t nearly opaque as they should be, and then inform the clerk on duty that these glasses are not actually polarized and that&#8217;s false advertising.  The game is to see if they care.  Hint:  Probably not!</p>
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		<title>By: Charlious</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/comment-page-1/#comment-407044</link>
		<dc:creator>Charlious</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 15:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=36149#comment-407044</guid>
		<description>It looks an old glob of Green gas to me. I have a friend whose a old gas bag but he ain&#039;t green.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It looks an old glob of Green gas to me. I have a friend whose a old gas bag but he ain&#8217;t green.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/comment-page-1/#comment-407020</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 14:40:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=36149#comment-407020</guid>
		<description>For some polarization fun you can have at home, look at a LCD monitor while wearing polarizing sun glasses.  Now rotate your head.  Cool huh?

For even more mindblowing polarization fun, you&#039;ll need 3 pairs of sun glasses (or at least 3 lenses).  Hold the two glasses perpendicular to each other and look  through them.  Theoretically all the light should be gone.  Now put the third pair in between the first two at about 45 degrees relative to the others.  The light is back! The fun of quantum mechanics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For some polarization fun you can have at home, look at a LCD monitor while wearing polarizing sun glasses.  Now rotate your head.  Cool huh?</p>
<p>For even more mindblowing polarization fun, you&#8217;ll need 3 pairs of sun glasses (or at least 3 lenses).  Hold the two glasses perpendicular to each other and look  through them.  Theoretically all the light should be gone.  Now put the third pair in between the first two at about 45 degrees relative to the others.  The light is back! The fun of quantum mechanics.</p>
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		<title>By: Piper</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/comment-page-1/#comment-407012</link>
		<dc:creator>Piper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 14:09:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=36149#comment-407012</guid>
		<description>Something has always puzzled me in this astronomy stuff, and that&#039;s how we measure distances: the more the light is shifted to the red, the farther away the object is.  What I don&#039;t get is this: how can you distinguish between a distant gas blob emitting ultraviolet, red-shifted to appear green, and a nearby gas blob emitting green?

I suspect the answer lies in the known emission wavelengths of hydrogen (and other elements).  So, what if it was nearby and emitting green?  What would it be then?  Or at any of the intermediate distances, emitting something between green and ultraviolet?  How are all of those infinite possibilities ruled out?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something has always puzzled me in this astronomy stuff, and that&#8217;s how we measure distances: the more the light is shifted to the red, the farther away the object is.  What I don&#8217;t get is this: how can you distinguish between a distant gas blob emitting ultraviolet, red-shifted to appear green, and a nearby gas blob emitting green?</p>
<p>I suspect the answer lies in the known emission wavelengths of hydrogen (and other elements).  So, what if it was nearby and emitting green?  What would it be then?  Or at any of the intermediate distances, emitting something between green and ultraviolet?  How are all of those infinite possibilities ruled out?</p>
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		<title>By: ScienceJeff</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/comment-page-1/#comment-407007</link>
		<dc:creator>ScienceJeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 13:59:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=36149#comment-407007</guid>
		<description>Is that 300,000 ly using the subtended angle and calculated distance, assuming a static coordinate system, or does it take into account the expansion of the universe?  Or is that not a big factor?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is that 300,000 ly using the subtended angle and calculated distance, assuming a static coordinate system, or does it take into account the expansion of the universe?  Or is that not a big factor?</p>
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		<title>By: a different phil</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/comment-page-1/#comment-407006</link>
		<dc:creator>a different phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 13:58:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=36149#comment-407006</guid>
		<description>Bill3, welcome to the wonderful world of simultaneity, as forced upon us by relativity. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativity_of_simultaneity</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill3, welcome to the wonderful world of simultaneity, as forced upon us by relativity. See <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativity_of_simultaneity" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativity_of_simultaneity</a></p>
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		<title>By: Brandon</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/comment-page-1/#comment-407005</link>
		<dc:creator>Brandon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 13:55:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=36149#comment-407005</guid>
		<description>Thats right Ken.  I have something to add though.  Technically, even when observing objects close to you, like a tree outside, you are seeing the object as it existed in the past, a VERY short time ago, but the past none the less.  We still describe it in the present tense though.  Expanding this out to galactic scales is the same.

On another note.  Did anyone see the ABC show on Psychics last night.  I missed the last 10 mins, but I think they did a good job from a reality standpoint.  I hope Phil gives his opinion about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thats right Ken.  I have something to add though.  Technically, even when observing objects close to you, like a tree outside, you are seeing the object as it existed in the past, a VERY short time ago, but the past none the less.  We still describe it in the present tense though.  Expanding this out to galactic scales is the same.</p>
<p>On another note.  Did anyone see the ABC show on Psychics last night.  I missed the last 10 mins, but I think they did a good job from a reality standpoint.  I hope Phil gives his opinion about it.</p>
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		<title>By: NewEnglandBob</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/08/18/in-astronomy-a-polarizing-view-is-good/comment-page-1/#comment-407001</link>
		<dc:creator>NewEnglandBob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Aug 2011 13:45:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=36149#comment-407001</guid>
		<description>&quot;...numbing distance of over 100 sextillion kilometers!&quot;

numbing sex is for young galaxies. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;numbing distance of over 100 sextillion kilometers!&#8221;</p>
<p>numbing sex is for young galaxies. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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