Tim Minchin in Boulder!

By Phil Plait | August 28, 2011 8:00 am

I’m really excited: the flippin’ brilliant musician Tim Minchin is playing in Boulder on October 9th!

Tim is a skeptic, and a very, um, outspoken one. He is an amazing piano player, and his songs are a combination of devilish music and even more diabolic lyrics. His song Storm (embedded below) became an instant skeptic classic. When he performed at TAM London the audience practically carried him away on their shoulders.

So yeah, I’m pretty happy he’s coming here. As I write this tickets are still available at the Boulder Theater. I’ll be there! I hope to see lots of BABloggees there too. NOTE: his lyrics are NSFW, and I mean that really and truly. But they’re awesome.

Come to think of it, it’ll be interesting to see how Storm will play here in Boulder, where you can’t throw a crystal without hitting a place to get your chakras aligned. Hmmm.


Related posts:

A Storm has arrived
TAM London in review

CATEGORIZED UNDER: Cool stuff, Geekery, Skepticism

Comments (64)

  1. Mike in Austin

    We went and saw Tim when he came to Austin. He was incredible! We thoroughly enjoyed the show. We thought we’d never get the chance to see him in Texas (for some obvious reasons), but I suppose Austin has more of his core audience than Texas in general.

  2. I saw him in Boston on June 4th. It was GREAT! Sat right up on the front row, and it was just an overall outstanding show. Have fun! :)

    Storm was well received by the Boston Audience, and we have our fair share of woo-woos and assorted fruits and nuts.

  3. I was there at TAM London! He was fantastic. I’ve been following his various US appearances and hoping that he’ll show up near Wisconsin some day.

  4. Richard Carnes

    What a way to start a Sunday morning! Absolutely brilliant!

  5. He was in Seattle recently, but I couldn’t go. I half expected he would be run out of town on a rail, since I’m pretty sure Storm is from Seattle, and her views are definetly the predominant ones in this area. I read a couple of reviews and there was no mention of Storm. Either the reviewers glossed over it to avoid offending her, or perhaps Tim knew the danger?

  6. Jake Pember

    I love Tim Minchin! I’ve seen him live a few times.

    Hadn’t seen Storm. That was fantastic! He sure knows his way around a witty sentence or two.

  7. Bryan D

    Ha, funny but the moment I saw the name “Minchin” I instantly thought of “A Little Princess”. Wheres Sarah Crewe and Ermengarde?

    Carry on. :)

  8. bela okmyx

    @VinceRN – I doubt that Storm is a Seattleite; to quote from the above video, “The fifth guest is an unknown. The hosts have just thrown us together for a favor, ’cause this girl’s just arrived from Australia and she’s moved to North London.”

  9. KM

    I saw him in Austin back in July, which while liberal for Texas is still Texas. It was an amazing experience and he did do Storm during the show. There were no problems or protests that I saw and everyone left happy.

  10. noen

    Sexist strawman portrait of a liberal woman is sexist and a strawman.

    This is a classic right-wing sexist attack on women and liberals in general. It’s a common mode of right-wing attack in a pathetic attempt to delegitimate the left by calling us “moonbats” and other derogatory labels.

    There is no substance to his criticism because there is no one who believes the ridiculous claptrap he has his strawman spout. It’s childish and intellectually dishonest.

    It’s fun to ridicule people who are not of our tribe.

  11. Grimoire

    Put a modern self-proclaimed skeptic in a room with [1] a politician who does the same dumb things over and over, but is of the same Party as the skeptic and [2] a spoon bender most people already laugh at, who will the skeptic spend all his/her time attacking?

    When he performed at TAM London the audience practically carried him away on their shoulders.

    Are they really that desperate?

    NOTE: his lyrics are NSFW, and I mean that really and truly.

    Great, so I can’t show it to anyone who might need it. Good plan. (slow clap)

  12. magetoo

    noen: “Sexist strawman portrait”

    Unfunny troll is unfunny.

    I think I would call it “fictional” myself. On the other hand it wouldn’t surprise me the least if this particular fiction was inspired by real life..

  13. noen

    “Unfunny troll is unfunny.”

    Whatever. I find this video offensive and I have a right to say so and… I’m a skeptic. It’s a lot of false bravado on his part.

    How to win an argument when you don’t know anything.

    1) Construct a strawman.
    2) Attribute beliefs no one holds to the strawman
    3) Attack the strawman

    4) Profit!

    it wouldn’t surprise me the least if this particular fiction was inspired by real life

    I have never met anyone who believes the things claimed in the video. Oh, and it’s clear in the video just who it is that is intolerant.

  14. VinceRN

    @6 Yes, she had just come from Australia, but I think it likely that she grew up in Seattle and is now travelling the world on her trust fund. It’s a Seattle archetype.

    I like that Munching is being characterized as right wing by the troll, though I doubt the man himself would like it much. I certainly associate most of the beliefs he is attacking with the left though. And of course there is no straw man, I know, and work with a lot of educated people that believe all that crap. Here in the Pacific Northwest people like storm a very common.

  15. Kevin

    “Storm” isn’t real, it’s fiction. It’s entertainment. Tim Minchin is constructing a straw man, yes, but for the means of lumping a bunch of random beliefs into one person. It’s narratively expedient. And there are people who believe what he’s talking about, otherwise it wouldn’t resonate at all with its audience. Comedy and entertainment needn’t be completely accurate; it often works best by taking elements of reality and blending them with your own perspective.

  16. JimB

    Sorry Kevin. I’m with VinceRN, I’ve lived in the San Francisco Bay area for 30 years now. I’ve met a lot of people with ALL of those beliefs and maybe 1 or 12 more.

    I’ve just watched the video again. I saw no strawmen.

  17. Bryan D

    Homeopathics, antiVaxers, psychics, soothsayers, and their ilk should be attacked and debunked no matter who they happen to vote for.

    Lets be perfectly honest here, there’s plenty of people out there who believe all sorts of stuff that has no scientific basis that happen to also pull the same lever as you in the voting booth.

    This is actually one of those things that bug me about most things political. We all get into that “we’re smart and they’re dumb” mindset without the slightest bit of irony, even when the next guy in line who’s voting the same as you might very well believe vaccines cause autism or the lunar landings are fake.

    Science and Politics, the oil and water or our lives.

  18. magetoo

    noen:

    “Whatever. I find this video offensive and I have a right to say so and… I’m a skeptic. It’s a lot of false bravado on his part.”

    Fair enough. I’d still say the “right-wing attack” and “our tribe” bits is so far off the mark that it makes it look like you were trolling. I have certainly met people with equally kooky beliefs, regardless of political “tribe”.

  19. MarcusBailius

    He hosted the BBC Comedy Prom concert at the Royal Albert Hall, London, a week or so ago, broadcast in its entirety on BBC2 last night (Sat 27th – with of course no commercial breaks!) and live on BBC Radio 3 when it was recorded. He was brilliant; of course he toned down the language for the broadcast. I can’t believe that anyone would accuse him of making right-wing attacks, especially with his known views! Take for example his song “Prejudice”, about a word with a couple of ‘g’s, an ‘e’, an ‘r’, an ‘n’ and an ‘i’… And it’s not necessarily the one you’re thinking of…! He performed that one towards the end, and it went down a storm. (Ahem.)

  20. The wife and I will be there in the 2nd row. Maybe we will be lucky enough to run into you.

  21. QuietDesperation

    Homeopathics, antiVaxers, psychics, soothsayers, and their ilk should be attacked and debunked no matter who they happen to vote for.

    Yes, so attack them. Individually. By name. For things they actually claim. Skepticism really isn’t that difficult.

    It’s narratively expedient.

    Yes, a built in flaw left open for easy attack by the woomongers.

    Do a song, for example, taking Jenny McCarthy to task by name and I’ll be impressed.

    Attacking archetypes is noise.

  22. QuietDesperation

    I have certainly met people with equally kooky beliefs, regardless of political “tribe”.

    If they can be considered to be part of a political tribe, by definition their beliefs are kooky.

  23. Doug

    “Attacking archetypes is noise.”

    I don’t see any person being attacked here, only their silly beliefs.

    If video this offends you, I’d wager you’ve got something closer to a cactus than a stick up your ass.

  24. Naomi

    I’m having this odd sense of pride at the moment. Yeah, Aussies being awesome and skeptical overseas! Tim’s been a favourite comedian for years, now.

    Phil, have an awesome time! :)

    …noen @ 7, you haven’t actually ever seen anything that Tim’s done other than Storm, have you? Because I would not define him as right wing. Seriously.

    VinceRN @ 11, what’s more likely? That an AUSTRALIAN comedian comes up with an AUSTRALIAN character, or that an AUSTRALIAN comedian comes up with some random American who just happened to have visited Australia?

    Trust me, Storm is meant to be an Australian. My bet is northern New South Wales, up Nimbin and Byron Bay way. Where, believe me, it is entirely possible to have that entire set of beliefs and more. (This is the area that Meryl Dorey comes from. Just for some perspective.) Of course, being from New South Wales, that’s my immediate perception – it’s entirely possible to have areas like that in Victoria or WA, I just don’t know them off the top of my head.

    …POINT IS. Yes, Storm is meant to be Australian.

  25. OMFSM!!! You’re gonna have a frakkin’ ball!
    “This girl’s just arrived from Australia…” the song says.
    Not really a Seattleite (?), but maybe in spirit…

  26. Thomas Siefert

    I first saw Tim Minchin at TAM London and was blown away. I went to see him again earlier this year in Perth (his original hometown) and was equally impressed.

    I have met lot’s of people holding one or more, if not all, views like Storm. If anything, they are definitely leaning to the left. Just like me.

  27. Wow. I thought it was pretty clear that I was attacking Seattle. I’m kind of amazed that people are taking a comment like that so seriously. Here is my point: the way she talks and the things she believes would make her fit in perfectly in Seattle. I’m sure Minchin had no actual thought of Seattle when he wrote that. Likely Seattle is little more than an airport, a hotel room, a stage and a paycheck to him. Lighten up people.

  28. Elwood Herring

    I know someone just like that – my sister…

  29. He’ll be in Milwaukee, Wisconsin at the Pabst Theater on October 2nd. Excellent historical venue for this and right across from The Safehouse. Hope he knows to stop in and contribute something to the wall of celebrity autographs.

  30. peter

    saw one of the shows in seattle, which was great. interrupted slightly by the fact that the roof started to leak over the stage, just behind the piano. interrupted the song ‘cont’ in a very inconvenient place.

    saw him again in san francisco, and I have to say that I think I liked the encore in seattle better. don’t think I ever would have expected ‘thank god I’m a country boy’…

    and I’ve met a fair number of people like storm to one degree or another in seattle, SF, Portland, Vermont, etc. there’s no shortage if the incurious and easily answered in the world…

  31. Naomi

    VinceRN, fair enough. It’s hard to determine tone online! Although, oi, I visited Seattle once and I LIKE it there ;) (And San Francisco, where I plan to move. And I’m pretty sure I would have liked Portland if I had had more than an hour’s stopover there…)

  32. Doc

    Just got my tickets, Thanks for the heads up Phil!

    Bears dont dig on dancin’!

  33. Doc

    Bears dont dig on dancin’

  34. David H

    I knew a number of people just like Storm (male and female) back when I was studying. I’d hardly call a character who is slightly exaggerated and somewhat of a composite a ‘strawman’.

  35. Daniel J. Andrews

    Phil…ask Tim to come to Canada. Thanks. :)

  36. John Sandlin

    I don’t understand, noen. How is Tim’s description of an individual sexist?

    Sounds like projection to me.

    He isn’t railing against women. He’s railing against anti-science.

    I do know people that Storm very well could have been other than by name and sometimes gender. I don’t know specifically about the type and specifics of any tattoos, but the belief in those specific fairy tales are accurate for many.

    jbs

  37. Sam-Hec

    “I have never met anyone who believes the things claimed in the video.”

    Go meet some people.

    I live in Marin-Sonoma counties of California. They are EVERYWHERE. As a child I was dragged into participating in a Psychic Church…which incidentally is where I first heard the word ‘Skeptic’. Apparently I am a Natural at it.

  38. podrock

    We are so there. Thanks for the heads-up on the tickets. And for those of you who don’t know, the Boulder Theater is a great place to see a show like Tim’s. It’s a small Art Deco place, and every seat is nice, even in the balcony, where I’ll be singing to myself:

    “This is my seat
    and it’s fine.
    It’s Not Perfect,
    but it’s mine…”

  39. QuietDesperation

    Doug: I don’t see any person being attacked here, only their silly beliefs.

    That was my point, genius. (facepalm)

    Doug: If video this offends you, I’d wager you’ve got something closer to a cactus than a stick up your ass.

    Yeah, that comment about matches your reading comprehension. Nice job!

    I was saying they *should* attack them. By name. Individually. Even gave a Jenny McCarthy example.

    I’ll type more slowly next time.

    (double facepalm)

  40. QuietDesperation

    I visited Seattle once and I LIKE it there

    Yeah, geez, it’s not like it’s Detroit or something. ;-)

  41. So noen, you see one thing by Tim – presumably, since if you listen to any of his other songs you couldn’t possibly conclude he’s right wing – and generalize to his attitude; because you personally have never met someone like the person he describes they can’t possibly exist; and because he chose this character to be a woman he must be sexist, which, I imagine, would come as a very big surprise to the woman who produced the video.

    BTW, please feel free to come to Boulder to meet as many people like Storm as you’d care to. Or as Sam-Hec (37) pointed out, NorCal (where I lived for six years).

    And Quiet Desperation (21), attacking archetypes is not noise at all. In fact, that claim is way off base; I attack general arguments quite often, and everything Storm says in the video is something I have heard uttered by various people almost verbatim. Go look at any of the posts where I write about alt-med, as an obvious example.

  42. QuietDesperation

    attacking archetypes is not noise at all.

    You’re up late, too. :-)

    If you attack an abstraction, it’s too easy for the believers to think “oh, well, that’s not *me* they’re making fun of.” These are already deluded people in denial.

    This is a war for the intellectual future of our country. We need to go after the *specific* leaders, hard and fast. Show them to be the fools that they are. We almost need some sort of coordinated psychological operation.

    We need to convince people in high places to start speaking out more on these things. I’m just some guy who has managed to get over a dozen personal acquaintances weaned off woo (mainly Sylvia Browne).

  43. noen

    Phil, I like your blog, I think you make a great contribution with the astronomy and in debunking anti-vaxers and other silliness. I just don’t like this one video. I’ve seen it before and I Just. Don’t. Like. It.

    “because you personally have never met someone like the person he describes they can’t possibly exist”

    I’m pretty sure that there are greedy Jews, lazy blacks, limp wristed gays, man-hating lesbians and self absorbed women. But I’d never do a monologue like this one about them. And I could go to the deep south, New Yawk and the Castro district and find examples of the most outrageous stereotypes you can imagine…. but that would mean… what exactly?

    That people fitting the description of one’s strawman exist does not make it any less filled with straw.

    That a woman produced the video is not a valid argument against it being sexist.

    I think Storm needs her own video where she gets to have her say.


    “This is a war for the intellectual future of our country.”

    Huh, you see, I must be weird because I don’t think you win intellectual disagreements by going to war, literally or metaphorically. You win by convincing people that you have the better argument, not by yelling at them. Ad hominem does not convince people of how wonderful your beliefs are. Quite the opposite, it pushes people away.

    Don’t be a dick, sound advice if you ask me.

  44. QuietDesperation

    You win by convincing people that you have the better argument, not by yelling at them. Ad hominem does not convince people of how wonderful your beliefs are. Quite the opposite, it pushes people away.

    You’re right! I should have never advocated yelling and using ad homs!

    Oh, wait… I didn’t. :- Speaking of strawmen…

    (Hit my allotment of facepalm for the week, sorry. I can give you a light headdesk or a derpy eyeroll?)

  45. Naomi

    Yeah, geez, it’s not like it’s Detroit or something. ;-)

    Alas, I didn’t get a chance to visit Detroit when I was in the States. Although if I ever do, I will definitely be visiting their nifty science centre!

  46. Love Tim, real stand out performer! Never conforms!

  47. Renee

    For what it’s worth I believe the opinion that this is sexist isn’t so much that it’s a woman that’s being portrayed a certain way but how Minchin basically tears her down but admits she’s at least pretty to look at.

    I have a hard time not seeing that as being just a tad sexist and no, not all examples of sexism must be so obvious or directed at the totality of women everywhere.

    I don’t really get the whole right-wing attack thing. Yes, it is the case that republicans can be sexist but I’d hardly call that a republican only tactic.

    Pretty much anyone can be sexist, even members of the skeptic community.

  48. MBH

    @noen:
    “I’m pretty sure that there are greedy Jews, lazy blacks, limp wristed gays, man-hating lesbians and self absorbed women. But I’d never do a monologue like this one about them. ”

    No of course not you’ll just post it as a comment to someone’s blog….you don’t like the video. good for you. that’s really all you had to say and go away to spout your vitriol elsewhere.

  49. Chris A.

    Here’s another angle:

    It’s undoubtedly true that attractive people spouting woo frequently get a pass from members of the opposite sex (now THAT’S sexist!).

    What makes this piece funny is that Minchin isn’t willing to let Storm get away with her ridiculous statements simply because she’s physically appealing. He’s illuminating that inner conflict: “He/she is attractive, but a moon bat. I can let it slide and have a shot with him/her, or call him/her on the carpet and destroy my chances.” Is this a noble way of thinking? No, but it’s very human and typical.

    The fact that Minchin’s wife is also a character makes it funnier still, because he can’t possibly win either way (be nice to Storm and be accused of straying, or let her have it with both barrels and create an awkward social situation). And that is the essence of comedy; to quote Mel Brooks: “Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you walk into an open sewer and die.”

  50. Hampus

    That was brilliant!

  51. Gary Ansorge

    13. noen

    “it wouldn’t surprise me the least if this particular fiction was inspired by real life”

    “I have never met anyone who believes the things claimed in the video. Oh, and it’s clear in the video just who it is that is intolerant.”

    Hmmm, perhaps you just don’t get(out of the door, down on the street, all alone,,,) very often?

    While living in Oakland in the late ’90s, I met a young woman who claimed she became a witch(not Wicken) by selling her soul to the Devil.

    ,,,my response was simply,,,”You can’t sell what you don’t own,,,”

    I’ve met plenty of people, some female, some few male, who espoused exactly the same B.S as the female in this video. They like to think they’re insightful.( It’s an ego thing.) Unfortunately, it’s the exact same mental limitation that applies to anyone who cannot understand the evidence right in front of their faces.

    Which is why we have those peculiar people we call scientists who,via the “rules of evidence” search for knowledge.

    W/o THEM we’d still be shivering in caves, praying over our sick and injured and watching helplessly as they freaking DIE.

    Then of course, there are those of us who are mainly of an engineering outlook, ie, we use what actually works(as in, praying over your bridge won’t make it stand up).

    Gary 7

  52. Buzz Parsec

    I was at the the same Boston show as Larian, but sat way in the back. It was still fantastic. (BTW, a month later at TAM 9, I met the Noisy Astronomer who I found out had traveled all the way from Virginia to see Tim that day, too.)

    Storm isn’t a particularly gender-specific name. In fact the baby in Canada whose gender the parents are deliberately not revealing is named Storm.

    I have met many Storms (though none with literally that name) of all persuasions, sexual as well as political. Minchin’s particular storm might fit some people’s stereotypes, but it is her beliefs and mind set that make her annoying and amusing, not anything intrinsic. That same mind set, a readiness to believe without evidence convenient things that fit your world view, that underlays conspiracy theories, global warming denialism, racism, sexism, religious fundamentalism, and other delusions commonly associated with the right, as well as alternative medicine and the naturalistic fallacy and other fantasies commonly associated with the left. Minchin’s song implicitly points that out (listen to his description of the pompous doctor who hosts the little dinner party.) The target of this song is someone who probably shares most of Minchin’s (and my) values, making her failure at critical thinking all the more annoying. If someone you don’t like anyway and whose values you despise demonstrates they’re an idiot, you don’t get annoyed, you just laugh at them.

    I’m starting to ramble (starting?) tl;dr: Storm is neither sexist nor right-wing.

  53. Ronster666

    Tim is great in concert. My wife and I have seen him twice at a <250 seat venue in Los Angeles. Tim is so personable that he could make you like him while telling you to your face that you are full of feces. Fun concert and excellent piano player.

  54. noen

    Gary Ansorge Says:
    Hmmm, perhaps you just don’t get(out of the door, down on the street, all alone,,,) very often?

    1.) The fact that I have not met anyone fitting a stereotype does not make that stereotype true.

    2.) Nor does the fact that you have met people fitting your stereotyped view confirm the reality of your stereotype.

    “They like to think they’re insightful.( It’s an ego thing.)”

    1.) The inability to allow others to hold views we do not have without being disagreeable ourselves is also egotism.

    2.) The unwillingness to allow women to hold opinions contrary to one’s own is sexism.

    “it’s the exact same mental limitation that applies to anyone who cannot understand the evidence right in front of their faces.”

    It is inappropriate and indeed intolerant to respond to someone who does not see things the way you do to try to brow beat or harangue them into submitting to your opinion, even if, and especially if, you are right.

    “Which is why we have those peculiar people we call scientists who,via the “rules of evidence” search for knowledge.”

    Which “rules” would those be? The ones you were taught in your high school science class? There is in fact no one set of rules which all scientists follow. There are as a matter of fact many different scientific methods used across many different disciplines. There simply is no such thing as “the” scientific method.

    To believe there is only one way to fix facts about the world is to mythologize science. Which is indeed a faith based, not a factually based belief system.

    “W/o THEM we’d still be shivering in caves, praying over our sick and injured and watching helplessly as they freaking DIE. “

    Actually, reason did not evolve as a means to fit individual opinion to facts, it evolved as a collective means to forge group consensus because groups that co-operate out compete those that do not. Diversity of opinion and epistemic humility should be valued by any true critical thinker because it is only through them we can come to a better understanding of the world and so survive.

    If you cannot defend your ideas without verbally abusing your opponents then your ideas are without merit. The point isn’t to “win” arguments. The point is to understand the world and that no single person holds the One Truth.

    “Then of course, there are those of us who are mainly of an engineering outlook”

    Engineers in particular are susceptible to a kind of epistemic arrogance because they have been taught a highly filtered and “received” view of science and even of the history of science. The reality is very different and messy. There is a significant gap between how science is taught and how it was actually conducted both today and in the past.

    A little epistemic humility would go a long way. It is the lack of that humility in the video and in the New Atheist community at large to which I object.

  55. QuietDesperation

    We engineers are the ones who git ‘er done.

    Engineers in particular are susceptible to a kind of epistemic arrogance because they have been taught a highly filtered and “received” view of science and even of the history of science.

    No, we’re taught practical design skills and methodologies and a way of looking at problems so that you can have a shiny computer to go on an absolute marvel of a global network and insult us. You’re welcome, by the way. Science and the history of science is a completely different thing, and I can read the same books you can.

  56. Naomi

    I’m pretty sure that there are greedy Jews, lazy blacks, limp wristed gays, man-hating lesbians and self absorbed women. But I’d never do a monologue like this one about them.

    Okay, I just can’t leave this one alone.

    You can’t change being Jewish (ethnically, at least – you can definitely change your religion), black, gay or lesbian, or female (unless you’re transgender, in which case you need to specify whether the ‘self-absorbed’ stereotype is attached to the female sex or the female gender. If it’s sex, then yes, you can change that).

    You can, however, change having stupid views.

    Cards on the table – I used to believe a lot of the same stuff that Storm believes in in the song. I changed those views when I realised the evidence just didn’t work in their favour. I have at no point changed my ethnicity, sexuality, or gender, and yeah, I’d be pissed off if someone wrote something mocking those.

    But illogical views? With no supporting evidence? That CAN be mocked.

  57. mocular

    Tim is brilliant! “Storm” is a great piece of work and as proof that I am a hopeless sentimentalist, “White Wine in the Sun” is one of the most moving songs I have ever heard. I’ll be there for the concert in row 8 – tall guy with a beard so I wil be totally unrecognizable in the Boulder crowd.

    Cheers BA!

  58. MBH

    @noen:
    “2.) The unwillingness to allow women to hold opinions contrary to one’s own is sexism.”

    Isn’t this in itself an inherently sexist view? That women as a whole are not equipped to articulate let alone defend said opinions. You’re essentially promoting the idea that women should have free reign to say what they want without opposition or logical debate….almost like how adults treat small children who’ve had too much sugar. As a woman I find that idea incredibly patronizing and wholly insulting…
    On the same vein are men just meant to take verbal abuse stoically, without a word (i.e. “sit there and look pretty”)? …because that’s not sexist in the least…oh wait…

    “It is inappropriate and indeed intolerant to respond to someone who does not see things the way you do to try to brow beat or harangue them into submitting to your opinion, even if, and especially if, you are right.”

    And yet here you are beating away…with four different, and increasingly offensive posts….cheers.

  59. noen

    Naomi Says:
    “You can, however, change having stupid views.”

    One is not made less prejudiced if the group in question can change the trait they are being prejudged for holding. Yes, opinions can be mocked, I have no objection to that. What I object to is creating a stereotype, personifying it and then attacking and belittling the person who embodies that stereotype.


    MBH siad:
    “Isn’t this in itself an inherently sexist view?”

    No it isn’t. There is no attempt on the part of the man in the monologue to try to engage her in rational debate. It’s pretty clear that he is violently opposed to her, even to the point of threatening sexual violence. Using physical or sexual threats in order to force someone to comply with you is deeply offensive regardless of the gender of the other person and definitely sexist when that person is a woman.

    I have no problem with ridiculing people who say dumb or offensive things. In fact I do it all the time. But it is in response to specific people who make specific claims. Make fun all you like of Michelle Bachmann and her ignorant ideas but don’t attribute her ideas to everyone in Minnesota or in her social class.

    “And yet here you are beating away…with four different, and increasingly offensive posts….cheers.”

    Browbeating is to intimidate another with verbal abuse with the aim of forcing compliance. At absolutely no point have I engaged in ad homs or personal attack. In every reply I have made pains to make simple declarative sentences that directly refute any criticisms I’ve received. You could reduce every comment I’ve made to a logical proposition and evaluate it’s validity on logical grounds. This is deliberate. I have learned that commentors on so-called skeptical or atheist blogs are the most irrational and intolerant people I’ve encountered. Of course that doesn’t imply that their opinions are wrong. It is possible to hold correct opinions for the wrong reasons.

  60. MBH

    noen:
    “No it isn’t. There is no attempt on the part of the man in the monologue to try to engage her in rational debate. It’s pretty clear that he is violently opposed to her, even to the point of threatening sexual violence. Using physical or sexual threats in order to force someone to comply with you is deeply offensive regardless of the gender of the other person and definitely sexist when that person is a woman.”

    You didn’t actually address my question…Did you even watch the same video? I’ve watched this about a 1/2 a dozen times, please point where he threatens sexual violence? Better yet here’s the transcript http://podblack.com/2009/01/tim-minchins-storm-now-featured-online/
    Maybe you could point out the specific passage, line or verse. Because your right in the sense that using the threat of physical or sexual violence for the purpose of winning an argument is highly offensive, but regardless of gender (I however do not agree that it’s more so when the target is a woman.) What is equally offensive if not more so is creating an imagined threat for shock value or for the purposes of haranguing a targeted audience of readers to persuade them to your way of thinking. In this instance said audience is made up of people that may show the inkling of interest in Tim’s work. You’ve abused the initial intention of this post, which was to promote an up and coming artist, and used it as your own personal pulpit to pontificate and impose ‘your’ values and ‘subjective’ tastes and passing them off as fact….like that guy who goes to rock concerts to just stand outside waving a sign saying “you’re all going to hell” and variations on that theme. Yes you have the right to your ‘opinion’….but so does everyone else.

    “In every reply I have made pains to make simple declarative sentences that directly refute any criticisms I’ve received. You could reduce every comment I’ve made to a logical proposition and evaluate it’s validity on logical grounds. ”

    Why don’t you go ahead and diagram your statement 43. “I’m pretty sure that there are greedy Jews, lazy blacks, limp wristed gays, man-hating lesbians and self absorbed women.”

    You wouldn’t want to be misconstrued…

    For the record I didn’t even know who Michelle Bachmann was until you made me google her, wasn’t even on my radar…that’s 20 seconds of my life I won’t get back…but thanks for giving me another politician to thoroughly despise…as if the list wasn’t long enough.

    To those of you going to the show, I hope you have a blast. I’m seeing him in NY in November and can’t wait.

  61. Jantfl

    I know someone EXACTLY like storm. She believes all those thing plus a few. And her name is RAIN. Yeah… This poem is incredibly close to reality. Her favorite argument toward me is, “so you just know everything, don’t you?” and then walks away.

  62. Persnickydietz

    Phil, thank you for introducing me to this Tim Minchin person! I had never heard of this guy before your post, if you can believe it. Now after watching a few of his songs on YouTube, and laughing my ass off, I’m hooked. It’s like he’s totally realigned my chakra khan.
    Have a great time at the show!

  63. mac

    i can’t believe i’ve just seen him on telly…..,he was, was, was just so.so.so.sooo unfunny it wasn’t believaible!!!!
    he must float someones boat but it certainly wouldn’t be mine!!!

  64. Rob

    I’ll be there tonight. I’ve always wanted to see Tim Minchin and I’m glad he’s finally playing just a short drive away.

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