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	<title>Comments on: Followup: FTL neutrinos explained? Not so fast, folks.</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/10/15/followup-ftl-neutrinos-explained-not-so-fast-folks/</link>
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		<title>By: Hey, Neutrinos: What&#8217;s The Hurry? &#124; Dimentoid</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/10/15/followup-ftl-neutrinos-explained-not-so-fast-folks/#comment-311368</link>
		<dc:creator>Hey, Neutrinos: What&#8217;s The Hurry? &#124; Dimentoid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2012 19:57:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=39343#comment-311368</guid>
		<description>[...] This isn’t confirmed, of course, and the physicists working on the experiment claim they’d accounted for such discrepancies. But you can be sure scientists won’t rest until we know definitively.  Categories:&#160;Science &amp; Technology&#160;&#124;&#160;Tags: Albert Einstein, CERN, Faster Than Light, neutrinos [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] This isn’t confirmed, of course, and the physicists working on the experiment claim they’d accounted for such discrepancies. But you can be sure scientists won’t rest until we know definitively.  Categories:&nbsp;Science &amp; Technology&nbsp;|&nbsp;Tags: Albert Einstein, CERN, Faster Than Light, neutrinos [...] </p>
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		<title>By: The Other Jim</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/10/15/followup-ftl-neutrinos-explained-not-so-fast-folks/#comment-311367</link>
		<dc:creator>The Other Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Mar 2012 06:40:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=39343#comment-311367</guid>
		<description>...and it was an equipment problem after all...

UPDATE 16 March 2012
ICARUS experiment at Gran Sasso laboratory reports new measurement of neutrino time of flight consistent with the speed of light

http://press.web.cern.ch/press/PressReleases/Releases2011/PR19.11E.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;and it was an equipment problem after all&#8230;</p>
<p>UPDATE 16 March 2012<br />
ICARUS experiment at Gran Sasso laboratory reports new measurement of neutrino time of flight consistent with the speed of light</p>
<p><a href="http://press.web.cern.ch/press/PressReleases/Releases2011/PR19.11E.html" rel="nofollow">http://press.web.cern.ch/press/PressReleases/Releases2011/PR19.11E.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/10/15/followup-ftl-neutrinos-explained-not-so-fast-folks/#comment-311366</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2012 11:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=39343#comment-311366</guid>
		<description>would anyone know now that something can travel faster than light would that solve the entanglement issue in quantum mechanics</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>would anyone know now that something can travel faster than light would that solve the entanglement issue in quantum mechanics</p>
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		<title>By: Tealamide</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/10/15/followup-ftl-neutrinos-explained-not-so-fast-folks/#comment-311365</link>
		<dc:creator>Tealamide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2012 22:53:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=39343#comment-311365</guid>
		<description>lets say for example, light has no mass, beacuse of which it is not affected by the medium it is travelling in! So how about neutrinos. Well, I dont know if smart scientists have realized this or not but the thing is neutrinos has mass!! This affects it in the travelling medium! So if neutrinos is travelling in air then the speed might change depending on the flow of air or other particles in air! As per the neutrinos that arrived in the supernovae in the 80s well, it travelled in vaccum so in its absolute speed not being affected by other medium!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>lets say for example, light has no mass, beacuse of which it is not affected by the medium it is travelling in! So how about neutrinos. Well, I dont know if smart scientists have realized this or not but the thing is neutrinos has mass!! This affects it in the travelling medium! So if neutrinos is travelling in air then the speed might change depending on the flow of air or other particles in air! As per the neutrinos that arrived in the supernovae in the 80s well, it travelled in vaccum so in its absolute speed not being affected by other medium!</p>
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		<title>By: Rick Gillespie</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/10/15/followup-ftl-neutrinos-explained-not-so-fast-folks/#comment-311364</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick Gillespie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Nov 2011 20:10:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=39343#comment-311364</guid>
		<description>Neutrino Particles and e=mc2

I like this link http://library.thinkquest.org/27930/relativity.htm It made me think about the crux of this issue. “The formula shows the equivalence of mass and energy and illustrates the fact that an increase in mass (m) is accompanied by an increase in energy (E) by mc2. The formula also shows an increase in energy (E) results in an increase in mass (m) by E/c2. In other words, as an object accelerates by gaining energy, it gains mass. As the object approaches the speed of light, its mass approaches infinity. An infinite amount of energy is required to accelerate an object to the speed of light, so the speed of light acts as a speed limit for matter.” Aren’t  the neutrinos created from a high speed collision? And aren’t they a by product of the energy that is generated by CERN plus the collision? So they are not truly gaining energy and or mass since they are being created at a constant speed close to 98%c. So for them to be going faster than c does not require one to assume they are being accelerated from a relative speed of zero to v + c.

So the problem is really just the interpretation of relativistic mass being associated with a velocity not an acceleration. The only energy increase required to make these particles accelerate to 98%c +v could be explained by the collision.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Neutrino Particles and e=mc2</p>
<p>I like this link <a href="http://library.thinkquest.org/27930/relativity.htm" rel="nofollow">http://library.thinkquest.org/27930/relativity.htm</a> It made me think about the crux of this issue. “The formula shows the equivalence of mass and energy and illustrates the fact that an increase in mass (m) is accompanied by an increase in energy (E) by mc2. The formula also shows an increase in energy (E) results in an increase in mass (m) by E/c2. In other words, as an object accelerates by gaining energy, it gains mass. As the object approaches the speed of light, its mass approaches infinity. An infinite amount of energy is required to accelerate an object to the speed of light, so the speed of light acts as a speed limit for matter.” Aren’t  the neutrinos created from a high speed collision? And aren’t they a by product of the energy that is generated by CERN plus the collision? So they are not truly gaining energy and or mass since they are being created at a constant speed close to 98%c. So for them to be going faster than c does not require one to assume they are being accelerated from a relative speed of zero to v + c.</p>
<p>So the problem is really just the interpretation of relativistic mass being associated with a velocity not an acceleration. The only energy increase required to make these particles accelerate to 98%c +v could be explained by the collision.</p>
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		<title>By: Einstein vs OPERA &#8230;End of round 2. - Cloudetal.com &#187; Cloudetal.com</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/10/15/followup-ftl-neutrinos-explained-not-so-fast-folks/#comment-311363</link>
		<dc:creator>Einstein vs OPERA &#8230;End of round 2. - Cloudetal.com &#187; Cloudetal.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Nov 2011 08:57:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=39343#comment-311363</guid>
		<description>[...] Phil Plait pointed out in his fantastic blog the most likely error with the experiment can be narrowed down to the statistics or the timing [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Phil Plait pointed out in his fantastic blog the most likely error with the experiment can be narrowed down to the statistics or the timing [...] </p>
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		<title>By: Ashbert</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/10/15/followup-ftl-neutrinos-explained-not-so-fast-folks/#comment-311362</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Oct 2011 04:39:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=39343#comment-311362</guid>
		<description>Yes the neutrino-faster-than-light experiment will NOT stand. So &quot;If nothing travels faster than light then Einstein&#039;s theory is right!&quot; Nice rhyme... most mediocre minds (i.e. just about everyone in today&#039;s world of physics) would dance to the line. A dance of the non-thinking crowd!

Reality is more complex -- a COUNTER-EXAMPLE exists that PROVES that (though Einstein&#039;s postulates are correct), Einstein&#039;s claim of having derived the Lorentz transformations is wrong, yes a COUNTER-EXAMPLE --  and at least one Nobel prize winner takes this realization seriously. See http://physicsnext.org/ for details, a very simple read, but majority be warned... facing physics reality regarding the foundations could disturb a mediocre mind and make you react emotionally...for example, Howard Georgi got very angry!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes the neutrino-faster-than-light experiment will NOT stand. So &#8220;If nothing travels faster than light then Einstein&#8217;s theory is right!&#8221; Nice rhyme&#8230; most mediocre minds (i.e. just about everyone in today&#8217;s world of physics) would dance to the line. A dance of the non-thinking crowd!</p>
<p>Reality is more complex &#8212; a COUNTER-EXAMPLE exists that PROVES that (though Einstein&#8217;s postulates are correct), Einstein&#8217;s claim of having derived the Lorentz transformations is wrong, yes a COUNTER-EXAMPLE &#8212;  and at least one Nobel prize winner takes this realization seriously. See <a href="http://physicsnext.org/" rel="nofollow">http://physicsnext.org/</a> for details, a very simple read, but majority be warned&#8230; facing physics reality regarding the foundations could disturb a mediocre mind and make you react emotionally&#8230;for example, Howard Georgi got very angry!</p>
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		<title>By: Nigel Depledge</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/10/15/followup-ftl-neutrinos-explained-not-so-fast-folks/#comment-311361</link>
		<dc:creator>Nigel Depledge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 14:44:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=39343#comment-311361</guid>
		<description>@ Dav (113) -
I think I am beginning to see the source of our initial disagreement.

I was viewing your comment about inspirational thinkers and pluggers as an either / or dichotomy, and this may have been false.

The best scientists, it seems, were both.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Dav (113) -<br />
I think I am beginning to see the source of our initial disagreement.</p>
<p>I was viewing your comment about inspirational thinkers and pluggers as an either / or dichotomy, and this may have been false.</p>
<p>The best scientists, it seems, were both.</p>
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		<title>By: Nigel Depledge</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/10/15/followup-ftl-neutrinos-explained-not-so-fast-folks/#comment-311360</link>
		<dc:creator>Nigel Depledge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Oct 2011 14:32:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=39343#comment-311360</guid>
		<description>@ Mementum (112) -
Er, thanks, I think.

That is all making my brain hurt, and reminding me why I went into Biochemistry instead.

I think I have at least worked out the source of my confusion.

What I thought was happening was that the GPS signal was used to calibrate a clock that was then physically transferred from CERN to OPERA to give both start and end points a common time reference.  So I was thinking that the only relevant observers were at CERN and OPERA (and hence stationary with respect to the Earth&#039;s surface), because this is where they made the measurements.  What had not occurred to me is what you seem to be saying, which is that the GPS satellite that provided the time reference was a more pertinent &quot;observer&quot; than the instrumentation at CERN and OPERA.

Is it, or not really?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Mementum (112) -<br />
Er, thanks, I think.</p>
<p>That is all making my brain hurt, and reminding me why I went into Biochemistry instead.</p>
<p>I think I have at least worked out the source of my confusion.</p>
<p>What I thought was happening was that the GPS signal was used to calibrate a clock that was then physically transferred from CERN to OPERA to give both start and end points a common time reference.  So I was thinking that the only relevant observers were at CERN and OPERA (and hence stationary with respect to the Earth&#8217;s surface), because this is where they made the measurements.  What had not occurred to me is what you seem to be saying, which is that the GPS satellite that provided the time reference was a more pertinent &#8220;observer&#8221; than the instrumentation at CERN and OPERA.</p>
<p>Is it, or not really?</p>
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		<title>By: cneily</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/10/15/followup-ftl-neutrinos-explained-not-so-fast-folks/#comment-311359</link>
		<dc:creator>cneily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2011 00:21:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=39343#comment-311359</guid>
		<description>As for the latitude difference,  the relativity corrections are completely deterministic and the satellite clocks are controlled to run at the rate they would if stationary on the equi-potential geoid, a time-varying correction since the satellite orbits decay away from circular after a while.  So any difference in latitude is already accounted for.  The special and general effects are comparable in magnitude and first order in the system operation (if not compensated).  To establish a common time reference at different locations there are various other error sources, measurable (iono delay), or model-based (tropo delay), cables, altitude above geoid, etc., but I assume these have long since been wrung out.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for the latitude difference,  the relativity corrections are completely deterministic and the satellite clocks are controlled to run at the rate they would if stationary on the equi-potential geoid, a time-varying correction since the satellite orbits decay away from circular after a while.  So any difference in latitude is already accounted for.  The special and general effects are comparable in magnitude and first order in the system operation (if not compensated).  To establish a common time reference at different locations there are various other error sources, measurable (iono delay), or model-based (tropo delay), cables, altitude above geoid, etc., but I assume these have long since been wrung out.</p>
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