Here’s my own story, though: I was once freaked out by the appearance of the moon when a narrow but sharply defined cloud passed in front of it. At first, it made the moon seem to be in the wrong phase. Then it bisected the moon as a dark stripe. I was able to use it as an excuse to end a 10-hour conversation (not that I didn’t enjoy it, but it was 2:30 am).

I’m Aussie, but somehow I think the misconception is one I had a long time ago and temporarily got fixed during a stint for a company where I had to know the UK area for categorisation purposes. I did know there was a difference between UK and other terminology, perhaps I just forgot it over time. Thanks for setting me straight.

No problem! I always wonder why President Obama refers to us (as a nation) as the English so often, didn’t realise it was such a widespread misconception over there. Spread the word!

Are you SERIOUSLY arguing that there are people in the UK who are unfamiliar with what the moon is? Do you ever listen to yourself?

Er, yes. On both counts.

Are you seriously suggesting that everyone in the UK would recognise the moon every time they see it no matter what the circumstance, unless they are drunk?

Oh, wait, that’s exactly what you do suggest. Do you ever listen to yourself?

And, BTW, the stats are on my side this time. The moon has indeed been reported several times as a UFO, and not just in the UK, and not just by people who were drunk.

“Do you know someone named Durkon, perchance?”

I’m not a geek and I have a life outside of the internet and have never played WoW. It was a joke honey.

Erm, yeah, and you obviously didn’t get my humorous reference. I also have never played WoW (and this is the first time I have ever used this set of initials to refer to it). You also make being a geek sound like a bad thing. I am a geek and I have a life outside the t’internet, but this is not really any kind of big deal. Were you trying to make a point?

Try and relax. It’s not like any of this is actually important.

So why were you making such a big deal out of it?

“This has (IIRC) cropped up on previous threads.”

Yes it has. I am a liberal but I criticize liberals when I think they are unfairly judging others. I am a skeptic but I criticize other skeptics when they are unfair to believers in woo. I am an agnostic but I criticize atheists when they are unfair to theists. I also criticize conservatives and they think I am a radical Leftist and… you can fill in the rest.

I have never seen you criticised for anything other than making a bad argument.

On this thread, you cited two pieces of evidence and concluded that the guy was drunk, and yet there are plenty of other possible explanations for those two pieces of evidence that you did not consider. In what way were you being sceptical?

Silly me.

Well, quite, but probably not in the way you meant it.

“Very often people ridicule someone because that person is being ridiculous.”

But it doesn’t work. That isn’t how you get people to change their minds.

Wait, who said anything about trying to do this?

Or…. if you like… then if you have the right to ridicule those you believe are ridiculous then I have the right to do the same. See how that works?

Erm, yeah. It’s called human social interaction. It happens everywhere, all the time. The standards of “ridiculous” depend on the context and the social group.

What I don’t get is why we – in the very broadest sense – refrain from ridiculing the ridiculous in certain circumstances. If someone chooses to believe in – for example – an undetectable and yet all-powerful deity the existence of which is supported by not the slightest shred of evidence, why is it that we are required to respect that choice? I do, of course, respect the person’s right to so believe, in the same way that I respect their right to wear orange and purple at the same time. But why is it that the one ridiculous behaviour is protected from ridicule and the other is not?

Thanks for quoting me, though I’m sure there’s something grammatically incorrect about it. I think there should be a “for” in there somewhere.

Also, English people from England, Scottish people from Scotland, Welsh people from Wales and Irish people from Northern Ireland can all be described as British people from the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The UK is the four nations named there. Great Britain is the largest island of the British Isles comprising England, Wales and Scotland.

Irish people from the Republic of Ireland should not be called British though. They will not like it one bit. However Ireland as a whole is one of the British Isles, the 2nd largest. Be careful out there, it’s a minefield!

Is the guy drunk? Of course he is…. he thinks the moon is a spacecraft! That’s really all the evidence I need for that. NO ONE believes or has ever believed that the moon is a UFO. No one.

Wow, your evidence is basically… ‘no one could be that stupid’. Yeah, that’s really some great evidence you got there.

Now, before you begin replying:

To me, he just sounds old and either confused or just frail. But if someone posted a photo dated of the time of the phone call, or a video of the actual phone call, with the person in question and liquor-based drinks in the background or in the person’s hand. If the guy turns up somewhere in an interview or somewhere else and says “yep, I was drunk”.. then I’d say he was probably drunk. What we have is an audio recording and no other context. Including a lot of information about what the sky was like, the weather, the neighbourhood and height of buildings, etc etc. There’s a lot of stuff that’s just unknown, and you’ve gone from “he’s ignorant because he can’t recognise the moon” to “he’s drunk” with no cause.

I thought the skeptic mantra was “show me the evidence”. In which case I say to you: show me proof he’s drunk.

It’s not like any of this is actually important.

Then why are you here complaining?

This has (IIRC) cropped up on previous threads.

Yes it has.

And when we criticise you, you complain about it… Very rarely have I read any comments from you that weren’t criticisms of either what Phil posted or what a commenter posted. Do you leave comments on the pretty Hubble photos? Or do you just come here to vent?

or as PayasYouStargaze put it

What you do is question those who question that which there is no evidence.

Interesting – I had always thought that British referred to English people only, and that it was often confused with people belonging to the UK. I started off writing this comment in order to correct you, but decided to look up a reference first… glad I did, because it turns out I was wrong! Thanks for teaching me something new

You decide. Or don’t decide.

That is the question

I am a skeptic so what happens to me is that I get accused of being a conservative on liberal sites when I question whatever gossip or rumor they are passing around that day and I get accused of being a UFO believer when I question the extremely poor arguments some people use and I get accused of being a Christian when I criticize atheists of their dumb arguments against religion….. and so it goes and goes and goes.

You may claim to be a sceptic but your history here shows that you actually support any woo and nonsense. A sceptic questions whether something is possible. What you do is question those who question that which there is no evidence.

Is the guy drunk? Of course he is…. he thinks the moon is a spacecraft! That’s really all the evidence I need for that. NO ONE believes or has ever believed that the moon is a UFO. No one.

He doesn’t sound drunk to me. Are you seriously trying to claim that sober people have never been mistaken by what they’ve seen? We can’t tell if the man is drunk, but at least the poor guy realised he was being silly and apologised.

Are you SERIOUSLY arguing that there are people in the UK who are unfamiliar with what the moon is? Do you ever listen to yourself?

LOL The whole point of UFO sightings is that mundane things are poorly identified. The moon is a very common UFO sighting and not just in the UK. The point is that people can be fooled by their senses.

I’m not a geek and I have a life outside of the internet and have never played WoW. It was a joke honey. Try and relax. It’s not like any of this is actually important.

Apparently you didn’t get Nigel’s joke.

Yes it has. I am a liberal but I criticize liberals when I think they are unfairly judging others. I am a skeptic but I criticize other skeptics when they are unfair to believers in woo. I am an agnostic but I criticize atheists when they are unfair to theists. I also criticize conservatives and they think I am a radical Leftist and… you can fill in the rest.

The problem is that you treat any and all criticism as unfair. When dealing with absurd branches of woo there is no real unfair criticism because the subject matter is that innane. This includes fundamentalist religious beliefs.

But it doesn’t work. That isn’t how you get people to change their minds. Or…. if you like… then if you have the right to ridicule those you believe are ridiculous then I have the right to do the same. See how that works?

Ridicule does work, though not in all cases. In some cases it can be a powerful tool to seed some doubt in the believers mind. The kind of doubt that will eventually build up until they decide to find out the truth for themselves. The problem is that when one tries to ridicule non-ridiculous ideas, then it’s the ridiculer who ends up looking ridiculous. Ridiculous is not necessarily a matter of opinion. In the case of woo, “UFOs” and religion, the subject matter is ridiculous on it’s own merits.

Is the guy drunk? Of course he is…. he thinks the moon is a spacecraft! That’s really all the evidence I need for that. NO ONE believes or has ever believed that the moon is a UFO. No one.

“This means nothing – it’s just a consequence of the rather inadequate way that human perceptions deal with stuff that it outside the familiar.”

Are you SERIOUSLY arguing that there are people in the UK who are unfamiliar with what the moon is? Do you ever listen to yourself?

“Do you know someone named Durkon, perchance?”

I’m not a geek and I have a life outside of the internet and have never played WoW. It was a joke honey. Try and relax. It’s not like any of this is actually important.

“This has (IIRC) cropped up on previous threads.”

Yes it has. I am a liberal but I criticize liberals when I think they are unfairly judging others. I am a skeptic but I criticize other skeptics when they are unfair to believers in woo. I am an agnostic but I criticize atheists when they are unfair to theists. I also criticize conservatives and they think I am a radical Leftist and… you can fill in the rest.

Silly me.

“Very often people ridicule someone because that person is being ridiculous.”

But it doesn’t work. That isn’t how you get people to change their minds. Or…. if you like… then if you have the right to ridicule those you believe are ridiculous then I have the right to do the same. See how that works?

OOTS +1

#41
Firstly, he was [Scots] . . . so was almost certainly a little drunk.

(My correction of a terminological inexactitude.)

OK, I’ll grant you that.

Wait.. a LITTLE drunk???

That isn’t ‘just how the British talk’.

Well, I’m not able to hear the recording due to the firewall at my place of work (maybe I’ll listen to it if I get the chance while I’m at home this evening), but the last time I looked Scotland was indeed located in the British Isles. And mainland Scotland is about one-third of Great Britain.

Firstly, he was [Scots] . . . so was almost certainly a little drunk.

(My correction of a terminological inexactitude.)

OK, I’ll grant you that.

Just kidding, folks !

truthspeaker said:
Noen, where do you get off calling this guy a drunk?

Because there is evidence he is intoxicated (drugs or alcohol):
1. He slurs his words in addition to his accent.

Could be a speech impediment, or extreme tiredness. I’ve found it pretty hard to enunciate clearly after arriving home following a 12-hour night-shift. This is not – by itself – indicative of drunkenness.

2. He thinks it’s moving. “It’s coming towards me”

This means nothing – it’s just a consequence of the rather inadequate way that human perceptions deal with stuff that it outside the familiar.

People who are intoxicated often mistake their own eye movements for an object moving on it’s own.

Perhaps this is so, but “A results in B” does not mean “B, therefore A”.

There are many other reasons why a person might see motion that is illusory. If you don’t believe me, get a piece of plain paper and a black marker pen. Mark a point in the middle of the paper and then draw many straight lines radiating from that point, so many that you cannot easily see how many without counting them. Then stare at the pattern it for about 10 seconds. Most people will see movement of some kind that is nothing to do with the movement of their eyeballs or their head, and is obviously not real movement of the pattern. It is an illusion.

I consider his belief that the moon was moving in the sky to be strong evidence of intoxication.

It ain’t.

Been there, done that, had trees leap out and hit me, the b@stards.

Do you know someone named Durkon, perchance? (yes, this is a geeky pop-culture reference)

VinceRN said:
no one is saying all people report UFOs are drunken idiots. Also, there is absolutely nothing wrong with laughing at drunken idiots.

The subtext is certainly there and yes, it is wrong to put other people down to make yourself feel superior.

No. There is no implication that all reports of UFOs are by drunken idiots. Many of the reports are made by deluded idiots. And some are by poeple who genuinely have no idea what they saw and some vague curiosity about what it might actually be, and aren’t idiots at all, merely ignorant.

And it really is OK to laugh at drunken idiots unless (a) their drinks were spiked and their drunkenness is involuntary, or (b) they actually hurt someone. Laughing at a drunken idiot is not putting anyone down – I am sure that they (once they were sober) would be among the first people to describe themselves as idiots. And even if it were putting someone down, it does not mean that the person doing the put-down does it to feel superior.

It is a bone that I have to pick with the “geek culture” found on the internet that it tends towards arrogance and snobbery of anyone perceived to be of a lower class than they are. I will always call people out when they do that.

And you often perceive it when it does not exist.

This has (IIRC) cropped up on previous threads. You assume that you understand the motivation and emotions of someone who dissects a poor or unsupported argument, when you have no grounds to do so.

Wzrd1 said:
“But, I try to go for the absurd and positive.”

Ah yes, I recognize that, it’s a common enough reaction to trauma. I know it well. The thing to remember is that the reason people ridicule others is because they are afraid.

Nope. Very often people ridicule someone because that person is being ridiculous. This almost always crops up on the BA’s UFO threads. Anyone who makes the leap “UFO = space aliens” and who does not accept the fallacy when it is explicitly pointed out is being ridiculous and is therefore fair game for laughing and pointing.

I’m sure they have similar misconceptions about Americans, particularly folks with southern accents

Probably not so much these days, as about a third of the shows on TV here come from America.

Heh, reminds me of this gag I saw on a comedy show once, with someone making reference to how Sean Connery talks and inferring that he’s drunk, and Sean (not the real one, obviously) replying “I’m not drunk, I’m Scottish!”

Particularly when playing a Russian sub captain.

“Give me a ping, Vasily. One ping only.”

Classic.

Eh? Isn’t that like saying ‘he hasn’t got an American accent, he’s from Montana’?

How does one play with lightening? With kites?

#25, noen

I think there could be other explanations for thinking the moon is moving; for a start, cloud cover and tree branches waving in the dark that might not be clearly differentiated against the sky. He doesn’t really say much about distance or the general appearance of the sky and his surroundings, so if it’s a good way off with nothing much in the way of background or foreground information, it might be easy to think something is moving when it isn’t. That is all assuming he’s standing still too, and not moving about trying to get a better look which would heighten the effects. As you said: I’ve been there and done that.

Some commenters make mistaken assumption that the guy calling the cops was drunk.

Seems a bit ironic…

Ok, so i’m assuming he was not drunk, by my comment above, but just to make the point.

He was slurring his words: He could have Multiple Sclerosis. My mother has and she speaks the same way. She was even asked to leave a resteraunt one evening while out with my father, because the owner thought she was drunk. This was 2 months before she was diagnosed with MS 20 years ago.

He could have been hallucinating: He could have Parkinsons disease and his dopamine overloaded brain could have caused his hallucinations. A close friends father has Parkinsons and she told me only 2 weeks ago, that as she was driving him along the motorway at 70mph he kept looking out the passenger side window convinced that a guy was running along side them.

As the scientists keep saying, things are not always as they appear – or sound…

Now, as for putting down a drunk, not at all. I’ve been known to tip back a few too many over the years, to mock them is to mock myself and I have many better things to mock myself over.
I DO put down people who cannot accept reality, which the caller DID accept reality and reported his gaffe. In THAT, I’d thank him.
Though I DO wonder what they expect emergency services to do about ANYTHING flying around. Have the police pull the aircraft over? If something landed or crashed, THEN emergency services would have something to do.
When my wife and I were driving home from the beach some years ago, we witnessed a green fireball moving from west to east and explode over central New Jersey. The only one I called was my wife’s attention to its passage.
I then remarked how I wish I could have a sample of that meteor, to give to one of our local universities for analysis and study. No calls to the police were necessary.
Now, had a fragment come down and dented my car, a call to the police would be in order. To provide provenance for the specimen.

Somebody had to say it

That isn’t ‘just how the British talk’.

Firstly, he was Scotish and secondly he was slurring his words, so was almost certainly a little drunk.