I thought the same thing. There’s no reason I can see that this lake might not be the analog for a magma chamber here on Earth. As long as the water is warm enough it can melt the ice crust. There might even be water volcanoes on the surface, lava (water) tubes, and all the other features of volcanism/tectonics found here. Imagine fault lines, subduction zones, ice quakes, uplift regions…

Sorry if I jumped to conclusions there, but your comment

So don’t EVER rule out extra terrestrial life until you have certain PROOF.

kind of implied that you assumed ET to exist, and are simply waiting for evidence to turn up to disprove the idea, which of course, is backwards to how science works.

Anyway, why immediately assume the skull is being tested for alien stuff? Isn’t it better to assume that the skull is simply of unknown terrestrial species, and that the DNA test is being done in order to discover what species it is? (Assuming that the people getting the tests done are not working from the alien hypothesis already and are simply looking for confirmation of their own, likely false, idea)

Of course, again, the possibility can’t be ruled out, but that doesn’t mean that you immediately assume that if something is unknown we *must* include aliens as a possible answer. We first must rule out unknown but terrestrial phenomena first; just like with UFOs. – Unless of course, extraordinary evidence is to be found.

Maybe I misunderstood your point, but then, I’m not quite sure what point you are making. If it’s just to be open-minded, well, that’s what good science is all about and most here will agree with you. If it’s something else, then please elucidate.

I never did actually say that extrat terrestrials do exist. I was just making the point that it is possible for extra terrestrials to exist. Also, I was merely pointing out that alien life has been “claimed” to be found, and the scientists are performing a DNA test on the remains of the eyeball in a socket. Whether the mummy is extra terrestrial, we should know pretty soon. However, I never said that aleins do exist.

I agree with you up until you started talking about Peruvian skulls (and Avatar, but that’s a different issue and not worth writing about here). We sceptics say “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”. You have it backwards: we should be assuming that no alien lifeforms have visited Earth, *until* good evidence is discovered that says otherwise. This is the principle of parsimony and a cornerstone of good science. You on the other hand suggest we should assume wild things based on little to no evidence. Something that looks conveniently ‘alien’ doesn’t prove it is an alien; it only proves it is outside of your own realm of experience or knowledge. Whilst most people will agree that the probability for alien life is relatively high, that does not mean that it actually does exist; only when we have incontrovertible proof of its existence can we say aliens exist, and even then, it would not prove that aliens have visited Earth as that’s a separate issue. Joseph G in comment 53 states this more succinctly, but basically, I very much doubt anyone has found any evidence for alien life on Earth.

@28. Renee Marie Jones : November 17th, 2011 at 7:17 pm

If there is anything alive there, then we have a moral obligation to leave it alone;

We do? Do we? Says who? Why?

I disagree with you there. Humans have the potential to explore and learn and discover – and protect and nurture too. We diminish and fail to fulfill our potential, fail to accomplish and learn and understand if we do as you suggest there.

Of course, we should – and will – be careful about how we do investigate possible life elsewhere such as on Europa.

we have no right there.

Agian, really? Says who? Why? Who are *you* to decree what “rights” the rest of us have?

Now if you were a Monolith it just might be different!

I fear, however, that we do not have the moral compass to leave it alone. I fear for any life that might be there. I am sorry I cannot save it.

I’m glad you’re not in charge. I think you need to consider being more humble and make less assumptions when it comes to your perceived “moral compass” making you better than anyone else.

@29. Brian Schlosser :

I think that any future expedition to look for life on Europa is going to have as its #2 priority be protecting any life that is found during the search.

Yep indeed. We’re already taking special precautions – for example deliberately sending the Galileo spaceprobe into Jupiter to burn up at the end of its operational life so as to avoid accidentally transferring any terrestrial life to Europa. We’re planning to do the same thing to Juno too when it’s mission finishes. All spaceprobes bound for possible abodes of life are sterilised and great care and consideration is being taken on this point.

Also, I’m pretty sure you’re wrong about children not having molars. Or are you talking about newborns?

I completely agree with you. And also, we could colonize other planets if they were found suitable. Just take a look at the movie avatar, and realize that that could be us someday.

By the way, have you seen the picture of the skull found in Peru? It could be a child’s skull, but it could also have been an extra terrestrial being because it had molars, something no child ever has. So don’t EVER rule out extra terrestrial life until you have certain PROOF.

You’ve come up with a false dichotomy. Did it ever occur to you that we could do both? Or indeed, that technology created for space can help solve problems here on Earth? (Conservation, recyclying, invention of new fuels, etc. All things done in space)

Besides which, understanding how other planets, moons, etc work may just help us understand our own.

Today the webcomic XKCD put out a great graph of how money is spent in the US. I recommend taking a look at it; the amount spent by for space exploration is extremely small compared to what is spent on social security and other things. It’s an eye-opener and space is not even comparable to some of the crap we spend on things. Wars for instance…

I dont think anything exists in the Europa system. Even if it did…we will never live on it, walk on it, explore or colonize it. Interesting yes, but we should be focusing on expoloring and preserving our planet.

We have this fantasy of finding another world to explore, exploit and move to…its in our genes.

http://astronomy.stackexchange.com/questions/1491/liquid-water-in-mid-ice-on-europa-mechanism

Surprised no one else picked that up!

@34 Jess Tauber: Given a closed volume, wouldn’t the shock of a large meteor strike (and wouldn’t these be rather common around the Jupiter region?) wipe out any advanced life inside Europa?

That’s the beautiful part, and is one of the reasons why life on Europa, while it seems crazy at first, begins to make sense the more you think about it (see the above comment re radiation). Now, I can’t really comment on the shockwave issue, but as for other stuff… When you look at the mechanisms behind mass extinctions on Earth caused by bolide impacts, most of them just don’t apply to life on Europa. For instance:
–Diminished sunlight (no atmosphere to gunk up, and even if there were, who cares?)
–Tidal waves (no land critters)
–Acid rain (no nitrogen atmosphere to yield nitric acid)
–Long-term warming from CO2 released from rocks (obviously not an issue)
–Destroyed ozone layer (not present or needed)
–Firestorms caused by secondary debris re-entering the atmosphere (no free oxygen, and 30 klicks of ice between you and the hot stuff, and also little or no secondary debris from Europa itself, just the impactor)….

Chemotrophic seafloor life would be a tough bastard to hurt I’m not saying a K/T type impact wouldn’t cause havoc, but I’d hazard a guess that if life on Earth could survive it, life on Europa definitely could.

Seriously though, it is clear to me that these lakes are just elevator platforms for the launch of the Europan Earth-invasion fleet. But we have a secret weapon they don’t know about- we’ll make them listen to the Republican Party debates!! They’ll be heading home with their heads and all three tails tucked between their tentacles, never knowing what hit them.

Sheesh, let’s just give ‘em smallpox blankets while we’re at it!! Sure, we on Earth are relatively resistant to the brain-destroying effects of GOP acoustic radiation, but on an unprepared species, it could turn them into vegetables! Can you say “war crime”?

“Life will evolve everywhere it can – and everywhere it can’t.”

Perhaps we can soon start putting the comment to the test.

That’s a great point: as well as chemicals being delivered down below the ice, as Phil said, these pockets might also carry life forms (or at least signs of life forms – alien seafloor worm poop?) close to the surface where they can be observed. Not only that, it’s likely the ice is weaker and porous in these areas, so even if the goal remains to send a hydrobot all the way down, these lakes may present sort of a shortcut

As well, on a side note: IT WAS JUST CONFIRMED THAT I WILL BE GOING TO NYC WITH MY SCHOOL’S AWESOME DRAMA & CREATIVE ARTS DEPT. COME SPRING BREAK. I AM EXCITED BEYOND WORDS, AND WAS RECENTLY IN A STATE OF TREMBLY ECSTASY BECAUSE OF IT. START SPREADIN’ DA NEWZZZ

Hehe, congrats!

[insert any relevant Sagan quotes here; don't have the time
Allow me:

The surface of the Earth is the shore of the cosmic ocean. From this shore we have learned most of what we know. Recently we have waded our way out, maybe ankle deep, and the water seems inviting. Some part of our being knows, this is where we came from. We long to return; and we can.

–Dr. Carl Sagan, Cosmos, episode 1

You know, a huge supply of liquid stuff, rigid material on top of it as a shield or crust. Then there are some cracks, so the liquid can rise to a large chamber near the surface. Eventually it will get free?