<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Curiosity on its way to Mars!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/</link>
	<description>I am an astronomer, writer, and skeptic. I likes reality the way it is, and I aims to keep it that way. My real name is Phil Plait, and I run the Bad Astronomy blog.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 04:54:40 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: jt_flyer</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/comment-page-2/#comment-495604</link>
		<dc:creator>jt_flyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Mar 2012 19:04:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=41216#comment-495604</guid>
		<description>This is NASA&#039;s most exciting mission in years... especially the landing sequence.  Thankfully the military space truck has been retired we and can get back to real space exploration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is NASA&#8217;s most exciting mission in years&#8230; especially the landing sequence.  Thankfully the military space truck has been retired we and can get back to real space exploration.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: All set to satisfy our curiosity &#171; Joy of Science</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/comment-page-2/#comment-449311</link>
		<dc:creator>All set to satisfy our curiosity &#171; Joy of Science</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Dec 2011 01:39:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=41216#comment-449311</guid>
		<description>[...] above, makes me wish I were on it.  In case, you are wondering why the landing is complicated, Phil Plait explains:  I’ve heard some folks wondering why NASA is using such a crazy complicated way to land the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] above, makes me wish I were on it.  In case, you are wondering why the landing is complicated, Phil Plait explains:  I’ve heard some folks wondering why NASA is using such a crazy complicated way to land the [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joseph G</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/comment-page-2/#comment-447993</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2011 22:08:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=41216#comment-447993</guid>
		<description>@75 Blargh:  Thanks for the info!  I had no idea Pu-238 wasn&#039;t used in actual reactors.  
Still, I find nuclear tech fascinating (probably to an unhealthy degree).  I&#039;m the kind of nutball that in an earlier age thought that the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Nucleon&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ford Nucleon&lt;/a&gt; was a wonderful idea :D

&lt;i&gt;I know research has been carried out with Stirling engine-based RTGs, which would trade complexity for a much higher efficiency, but I don’t know what the current situation is with those.&lt;/i&gt;
That does make a lot of sense, especially for applications like a Titan probe where there&#039;s no shortage of working fluid and plenty of cooling through conduction.  Still, the image of a space probe with a big steam-age-looking piston moving back and forth somehow tickles my funny bone :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@75 Blargh:  Thanks for the info!  I had no idea Pu-238 wasn&#8217;t used in actual reactors.<br />
Still, I find nuclear tech fascinating (probably to an unhealthy degree).  I&#8217;m the kind of nutball that in an earlier age thought that the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Nucleon" rel="nofollow">Ford Nucleon</a> was a wonderful idea <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p><i>I know research has been carried out with Stirling engine-based RTGs, which would trade complexity for a much higher efficiency, but I don’t know what the current situation is with those.</i><br />
That does make a lot of sense, especially for applications like a Titan probe where there&#8217;s no shortage of working fluid and plenty of cooling through conduction.  Still, the image of a space probe with a big steam-age-looking piston moving back and forth somehow tickles my funny bone <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Blargh</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/comment-page-2/#comment-447969</link>
		<dc:creator>Blargh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2011 21:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=41216#comment-447969</guid>
		<description>@ Joseph G:
&lt;blockquote&gt;Am I correct to assume that an actual reactor would be able to get a heck of a lot more power out of that amount of plutonium?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Wrong isotope of plutonium, I&#039;m afraid. :)
While you can technically burn Pu-238 in a reactor - it&#039;s fissionable (capable of undergoing fission), and, more importantly, fertile (capable of capturing a neutron and turning fissile (with an extra neutron it turns into Pu-239, which is the isotope that&#039;s used in bombs and mixed-oxide reactor fuel)) - it won&#039;t make a reactor fuel on its own.
Furthermore, even if the &quot;right&quot; isotope was used, I don&#039;t think (this is a bit outside my particular field :)) the amount used in the MMRTG - 4.8 kg - is enough to sustain a chain reaction.
&lt;blockquote&gt;125 watts doesn’t sound like a whole lot, for 2000 watts of waste heat. I assume that RTGs are used because no supervision (or moving parts) are needed?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Yep. Without moving parts, and relying on relatively simple principles, RTGs are &lt;i&gt;extremely&lt;/i&gt; reliable. They&#039;re also much smaller and lighter (an order of magnitude or so) than the smallest reactors ever built.
I know research has been carried out with Stirling engine-based RTGs, which would trade complexity for a much higher efficiency, but I don&#039;t know what the current situation is with those.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Joseph G:</p>
<blockquote><p>Am I correct to assume that an actual reactor would be able to get a heck of a lot more power out of that amount of plutonium?</p></blockquote>
<p>Wrong isotope of plutonium, I&#8217;m afraid. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
While you can technically burn Pu-238 in a reactor &#8211; it&#8217;s fissionable (capable of undergoing fission), and, more importantly, fertile (capable of capturing a neutron and turning fissile (with an extra neutron it turns into Pu-239, which is the isotope that&#8217;s used in bombs and mixed-oxide reactor fuel)) &#8211; it won&#8217;t make a reactor fuel on its own.<br />
Furthermore, even if the &#8220;right&#8221; isotope was used, I don&#8217;t think (this is a bit outside my particular field <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> ) the amount used in the MMRTG &#8211; 4.8 kg &#8211; is enough to sustain a chain reaction.</p>
<blockquote><p>125 watts doesn’t sound like a whole lot, for 2000 watts of waste heat. I assume that RTGs are used because no supervision (or moving parts) are needed?</p></blockquote>
<p>Yep. Without moving parts, and relying on relatively simple principles, RTGs are <i>extremely</i> reliable. They&#8217;re also much smaller and lighter (an order of magnitude or so) than the smallest reactors ever built.<br />
I know research has been carried out with Stirling engine-based RTGs, which would trade complexity for a much higher efficiency, but I don&#8217;t know what the current situation is with those.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joseph G</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/comment-page-2/#comment-447551</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Nov 2011 01:03:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=41216#comment-447551</guid>
		<description>@71 Artbot:  I did some image searches for diagrams on Google.  It took awhile, but I found it - that&#039;s the liquid oxygen feed line.  Presumably it&#039;s heavily insulated, which is probably why it&#039;s so big.  Kinda makes sense to put the camera there, as it&#039;s slightly further out from the body of the rocket, giving a slightly better view.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@71 Artbot:  I did some image searches for diagrams on Google.  It took awhile, but I found it &#8211; that&#8217;s the liquid oxygen feed line.  Presumably it&#8217;s heavily insulated, which is probably why it&#8217;s so big.  Kinda makes sense to put the camera there, as it&#8217;s slightly further out from the body of the rocket, giving a slightly better view.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mathias R.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/comment-page-2/#comment-447433</link>
		<dc:creator>Mathias R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 20:43:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=41216#comment-447433</guid>
		<description>@70.kansel: So, curiosity killed the cat?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@70.kansel: So, curiosity killed the cat?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joseph G</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/comment-page-2/#comment-447384</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 19:11:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=41216#comment-447384</guid>
		<description>@68 Paul:  Interesting. I was wondering about that lunar descent engine!
&lt;a href=&quot;http://nssphoenix.wordpress.com/2010/06/08/pintle-injector-rocket-engines/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&#039;s a blog post on pintle injector rocket engines&lt;/a&gt; that I found while Googling the term, if anyone else is interested.

@69 Blargh: Am I correct to assume that an actual reactor would be able to get a heck of a lot more power out of that amount of plutonium?  125 watts doesn&#039;t sound like a whole lot, for 2000 watts of waste heat.  I assume that RTGs are used because no supervision (or moving parts) are needed?

@70 kansel:  Heh, &lt;a href=&quot;http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/f306f0ab-5adf-4a0c-91d1-f1a12ba8b96a.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; here&#039;s what I got&lt;/a&gt; when I did a search for &quot;curiosity&quot; on Cheezburger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@68 Paul:  Interesting. I was wondering about that lunar descent engine!<br />
<a href="http://nssphoenix.wordpress.com/2010/06/08/pintle-injector-rocket-engines/" rel="nofollow">Here&#8217;s a blog post on pintle injector rocket engines</a> that I found while Googling the term, if anyone else is interested.</p>
<p>@69 Blargh: Am I correct to assume that an actual reactor would be able to get a heck of a lot more power out of that amount of plutonium?  125 watts doesn&#8217;t sound like a whole lot, for 2000 watts of waste heat.  I assume that RTGs are used because no supervision (or moving parts) are needed?</p>
<p>@70 kansel:  Heh, <a href="http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/f306f0ab-5adf-4a0c-91d1-f1a12ba8b96a.jpg" rel="nofollow"> here&#8217;s what I got</a> when I did a search for &#8220;curiosity&#8221; on Cheezburger.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: artbot</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/comment-page-2/#comment-447356</link>
		<dc:creator>artbot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 18:28:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=41216#comment-447356</guid>
		<description>@65 John K : These pics shows the structure.  Not sure what it is, though.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Atlas_V_551_with_New_Horizons_on_Lauch_Pad_41.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--lSNi90D2-Y/TcLToE-PeMI/AAAAAAAABT8/lSYxf9q5YwQ/s1600/AtlasV_SBIRS_MLP3-1.jpg</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@65 John K : These pics shows the structure.  Not sure what it is, though.<br />
<a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Atlas_V_551_with_New_Horizons_on_Lauch_Pad_41.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Atlas_V_551_with_New_Horizons_on_Lauch_Pad_41.jpg</a></p>
<p><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/--lSNi90D2-Y/TcLToE-PeMI/AAAAAAAABT8/lSYxf9q5YwQ/s1600/AtlasV_SBIRS_MLP3-1.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://4.bp.blogspot.com/&#8211;lSNi90D2-Y/TcLToE-PeMI/AAAAAAAABT8/lSYxf9q5YwQ/s1600/AtlasV_SBIRS_MLP3-1.jpg</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: kansel</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/comment-page-2/#comment-447278</link>
		<dc:creator>kansel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 15:41:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=41216#comment-447278</guid>
		<description>Surely I&#039;m not the first to note that Curiosity launched on Caturday?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surely I&#8217;m not the first to note that Curiosity launched on Caturday?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Blargh</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/comment-page-2/#comment-447239</link>
		<dc:creator>Blargh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 14:12:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=41216#comment-447239</guid>
		<description>@67 Ben
&lt;blockquote&gt;One mission in the 1960s was lost in a launch explosion; the reactor was recovered intact from the Pacific and flown again on another mission.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
As a rad guy, I have to point out that an RTG is not a reactor - RTGs run on plain old radioactive decay. A nuclear reactor is one that contains a nuclear chain reaction: the only fission that occurs here is spontaneous (roughly twice per billion radioactive decays, a Pu-238 atom will spontaneously fission - split - instead of emitting an alpha particle) and unwanted, as Paul pointed out in comment #49.
Although to add to/correct his post, Pu-238 does emit some gamma radiation through its &quot;normal&quot; decay as well. But it&#039;s not a lot, and it&#039;s low-energy, which makes it easy to shield against (which is why this particular isotope is used). It gets worse over time (timescale of years) as other radioactive decay products build up, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@67 Ben</p>
<blockquote><p>One mission in the 1960s was lost in a launch explosion; the reactor was recovered intact from the Pacific and flown again on another mission.</p></blockquote>
<p>As a rad guy, I have to point out that an RTG is not a reactor &#8211; RTGs run on plain old radioactive decay. A nuclear reactor is one that contains a nuclear chain reaction: the only fission that occurs here is spontaneous (roughly twice per billion radioactive decays, a Pu-238 atom will spontaneously fission &#8211; split &#8211; instead of emitting an alpha particle) and unwanted, as Paul pointed out in comment #49.<br />
Although to add to/correct his post, Pu-238 does emit some gamma radiation through its &#8220;normal&#8221; decay as well. But it&#8217;s not a lot, and it&#8217;s low-energy, which makes it easy to shield against (which is why this particular isotope is used). It gets worse over time (timescale of years) as other radioactive decay products build up, though.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/comment-page-2/#comment-447231</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 13:22:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=41216#comment-447231</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt; It’s apparently difficult to design pumps and engines so that lower flows of fuel/oxidizer don’t cause combustion instabilities. &lt;/i&gt;

The bigger problem is with the injector.   Conventional injectors don&#039;t work well at low flow rates.   However, it&#039;s possible to design injectors that do work well; the pintle injector in the Lunar Module Descent Engine (LMDE) worked over a wide range of flow rates, enabling that engine to be throttled to 10% of max thrust.

Space X&#039;s Merlin uses a pintle injector, btw.

Engines operated in the atmosphere also suffer from flow separation if the nozzle exit plane pressure is too low.  This means that if they are highly throttled they either need variable geometry nozzles (plug nozzle, for example), or they need to be very underexpanded at high thrust.  Engines operated in vacuum do not have this problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i> It’s apparently difficult to design pumps and engines so that lower flows of fuel/oxidizer don’t cause combustion instabilities. </i></p>
<p>The bigger problem is with the injector.   Conventional injectors don&#8217;t work well at low flow rates.   However, it&#8217;s possible to design injectors that do work well; the pintle injector in the Lunar Module Descent Engine (LMDE) worked over a wide range of flow rates, enabling that engine to be throttled to 10% of max thrust.</p>
<p>Space X&#8217;s Merlin uses a pintle injector, btw.</p>
<p>Engines operated in the atmosphere also suffer from flow separation if the nozzle exit plane pressure is too low.  This means that if they are highly throttled they either need variable geometry nozzles (plug nozzle, for example), or they need to be very underexpanded at high thrust.  Engines operated in vacuum do not have this problem.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/comment-page-2/#comment-447035</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 03:55:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=41216#comment-447035</guid>
		<description>RTGs were also used on [US missions such as] Galileo, Ulysses, New Horizons, Cassini, the Apollo missions, Voyager 1 &amp; 2, Pioneer 10 &amp; 11, Viking 1 &amp; 2 on Mars, and several other civilian and military missions and experiments such as Transit and Nimbus satellites. One mission in the 1960s was lost in a launch explosion; the reactor was recovered intact from the Pacific and flown again on another mission.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RTGs were also used on [US missions such as] Galileo, Ulysses, New Horizons, Cassini, the Apollo missions, Voyager 1 &amp; 2, Pioneer 10 &amp; 11, Viking 1 &amp; 2 on Mars, and several other civilian and military missions and experiments such as Transit and Nimbus satellites. One mission in the 1960s was lost in a launch explosion; the reactor was recovered intact from the Pacific and flown again on another mission.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jim Baerg</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/comment-page-2/#comment-447006</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Baerg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 01:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=41216#comment-447006</guid>
		<description>For more on the power source see:
http://atomicinsights.com/2011/11/building-curiositys-power-source-at-idaho-national-laboratory.html

Also for information on RTGs up to the mid 1990s see
http://atomicinsights.com/article-file
&amp; scroll down to September 1996 for a few articles.

Solar is best for many space applications, but on a planetary surface where you have to deal with night or if you&#039;re a long way from the sun something nuclear is the way to go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For more on the power source see:<br />
<a href="http://atomicinsights.com/2011/11/building-curiositys-power-source-at-idaho-national-laboratory.html" rel="nofollow">http://atomicinsights.com/2011/11/building-curiositys-power-source-at-idaho-national-laboratory.html</a></p>
<p>Also for information on RTGs up to the mid 1990s see<br />
<a href="http://atomicinsights.com/article-file" rel="nofollow">http://atomicinsights.com/article-file</a><br />
&amp; scroll down to September 1996 for a few articles.</p>
<p>Solar is best for many space applications, but on a planetary surface where you have to deal with night or if you&#8217;re a long way from the sun something nuclear is the way to go.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Kingery</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/comment-page-2/#comment-446992</link>
		<dc:creator>John Kingery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Nov 2011 00:36:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=41216#comment-446992</guid>
		<description>HI. Was wondering about the camera perspective above, looking at the lander from below.(behind?)  What is the flattish corrugated surface we&#039;re looking over? Where would this camera be on the rocket?
     Really enjoyed watching the launch, especially the reactions of the JPL crowd when separation occurred and Curiosity was safely on its way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>HI. Was wondering about the camera perspective above, looking at the lander from below.(behind?)  What is the flattish corrugated surface we&#8217;re looking over? Where would this camera be on the rocket?<br />
     Really enjoyed watching the launch, especially the reactions of the JPL crowd when separation occurred and Curiosity was safely on its way.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: artbot</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/comment-page-2/#comment-446910</link>
		<dc:creator>artbot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=41216#comment-446910</guid>
		<description>@57.   Donnie B. - Yeah, I wondered why they couldn&#039;t just make a rocket powered platform that the rover would sit atop, then simply drive off.  Then it occurred to me that perhaps the rover on cables acts like a pendulum stabilizer for the rockets.  If the rover were atop a platform, it would require much more nuanced engine control to keep it stable, whereas with the &quot;rocket crane&quot; the load of the rover keeps the center of gravity low and more stable.  Just another guess :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@57.   Donnie B. &#8211; Yeah, I wondered why they couldn&#8217;t just make a rocket powered platform that the rover would sit atop, then simply drive off.  Then it occurred to me that perhaps the rover on cables acts like a pendulum stabilizer for the rockets.  If the rover were atop a platform, it would require much more nuanced engine control to keep it stable, whereas with the &#8220;rocket crane&#8221; the load of the rover keeps the center of gravity low and more stable.  Just another guess <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lewis</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/comment-page-2/#comment-446896</link>
		<dc:creator>Lewis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:18:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=41216#comment-446896</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m OK with the foley effects for the rocket and such.  I like to think of it like this, the mic is attached TO the spacecraft itself and not floating in space beside it.  Then you&#039;d at least get something sort of like this.   So long as you have a medium and a mic, you&#039;ll hear something!

This is a good example: http://youtu.be/LhnU3KB_fi0

The air is pretty thin at 40 miles but we still hear the bolts fire.  And even then, the SRBs are still traveling upwards but we continue to hear SRB fuel bits (I&#039;m assuming) roll around inside the metal body.  The sound isn&#039;t traveling by way of air but by vibrating the actual SRB itself.  The mic pics that up.

It&#039;s like tapping on a hard surface, we can hear it a bit but if we rest our ear on that same surface, it&#039;s much louder.  So even in deep space, as long as your ear was on the object, you&#039;d hear it if you were banging it with a hammer.  Sure, there&#039;s that whole suffocating/decompression issue but dangit you&#039;d hear it before you bought it!

I&#039;ll end by saying that to garner interest in these things, people need familiarity.  You can better understand how sound travels, or doesn&#039;t travel, in space after your interest is gained.  Seeing a soundless video doesn&#039;t make sense to us land dwellers where sound via air is plentiful.  Finally, as a creative type myself, I&#039;d feel so very weird putting a video together with no foley.  It&#039;s just plain fun. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m OK with the foley effects for the rocket and such.  I like to think of it like this, the mic is attached TO the spacecraft itself and not floating in space beside it.  Then you&#8217;d at least get something sort of like this.   So long as you have a medium and a mic, you&#8217;ll hear something!</p>
<p>This is a good example: <a href="http://youtu.be/LhnU3KB_fi0" rel="nofollow">http://youtu.be/LhnU3KB_fi0</a></p>
<p>The air is pretty thin at 40 miles but we still hear the bolts fire.  And even then, the SRBs are still traveling upwards but we continue to hear SRB fuel bits (I&#8217;m assuming) roll around inside the metal body.  The sound isn&#8217;t traveling by way of air but by vibrating the actual SRB itself.  The mic pics that up.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s like tapping on a hard surface, we can hear it a bit but if we rest our ear on that same surface, it&#8217;s much louder.  So even in deep space, as long as your ear was on the object, you&#8217;d hear it if you were banging it with a hammer.  Sure, there&#8217;s that whole suffocating/decompression issue but dangit you&#8217;d hear it before you bought it!</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll end by saying that to garner interest in these things, people need familiarity.  You can better understand how sound travels, or doesn&#8217;t travel, in space after your interest is gained.  Seeing a soundless video doesn&#8217;t make sense to us land dwellers where sound via air is plentiful.  Finally, as a creative type myself, I&#8217;d feel so very weird putting a video together with no foley.  It&#8217;s just plain fun. <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Cairnos</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/comment-page-2/#comment-446893</link>
		<dc:creator>Cairnos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:14:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=41216#comment-446893</guid>
		<description>@57 - It would be as frustrating as getting your vehicle into orbit and then having it shut down and just sit there</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@57 &#8211; It would be as frustrating as getting your vehicle into orbit and then having it shut down and just sit there</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joseph G</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/comment-page-2/#comment-446888</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 21:02:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=41216#comment-446888</guid>
		<description>@58 Hevach:  I like the way you think  :D  Still, a rocket-lifted probe is going to have a flight time measured in minutes.  I&#039;d love to see a balloon of some sort, that could drift and gather data over a huge range.  More ambitiously, I&#039;d &lt;i&gt;love&lt;/i&gt; to see one of those fabled nuclear isomer/stimulated gamma emission powered aircraft engines, powering a UAV! 
The flight sim/aircraft designer X-Plane has, for some time, simulated Martian flight as well as flight in the Earth&#039;s atmosphere (it even comes with a fictional &quot;jet sailplane&quot; aircraft capable of flight on Mars).  It&#039;s tricky to design an airframe that works (your lowest possible stall speed winds up being something like 600 miles per hour!), and your aircraft ends up handling like a truck on ice, but it &lt;i&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@58 Hevach:  I like the way you think  <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />   Still, a rocket-lifted probe is going to have a flight time measured in minutes.  I&#8217;d love to see a balloon of some sort, that could drift and gather data over a huge range.  More ambitiously, I&#8217;d <i>love</i> to see one of those fabled nuclear isomer/stimulated gamma emission powered aircraft engines, powering a UAV!<br />
The flight sim/aircraft designer X-Plane has, for some time, simulated Martian flight as well as flight in the Earth&#8217;s atmosphere (it even comes with a fictional &#8220;jet sailplane&#8221; aircraft capable of flight on Mars).  It&#8217;s tricky to design an airframe that works (your lowest possible stall speed winds up being something like 600 miles per hour!), and your aircraft ends up handling like a truck on ice, but it <i>is</i> possible.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ben G</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/comment-page-2/#comment-446865</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:31:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=41216#comment-446865</guid>
		<description>Ok, this is a nit, but a big one of mine... NASA did not &quot;launch&quot; Curiosity, United Launch Alliance, launched Curiosity, which NASA built.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, this is a nit, but a big one of mine&#8230; NASA did not &#8220;launch&#8221; Curiosity, United Launch Alliance, launched Curiosity, which NASA built.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Hevach</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/comment-page-2/#comment-446864</link>
		<dc:creator>Hevach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:30:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=41216#comment-446864</guid>
		<description>Looking at the engine platform, I can imagine a lot of things they could do with that system besides dropping a single rover.

Imagine instead of hovering, it had some means of horizontal thrust. It could skim over rough terrain where a rover couldn&#039;t drive and a lander couldn&#039;t see anything, collecting data from the air and releasing a number of impact probes like the ones the failed polar lander had.

I&#039;m a big fan of rovers, they&#039;re cool for all kinds of reasons, but there&#039;s places they can&#039;t go. I can see this system being adapted to get the kind of area coverage you get with a rover in those places.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looking at the engine platform, I can imagine a lot of things they could do with that system besides dropping a single rover.</p>
<p>Imagine instead of hovering, it had some means of horizontal thrust. It could skim over rough terrain where a rover couldn&#8217;t drive and a lander couldn&#8217;t see anything, collecting data from the air and releasing a number of impact probes like the ones the failed polar lander had.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a big fan of rovers, they&#8217;re cool for all kinds of reasons, but there&#8217;s places they can&#8217;t go. I can see this system being adapted to get the kind of area coverage you get with a rover in those places.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Curious About Curiosity? What to Read on the Mars Rover &#124; Surprising Science</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/comment-page-2/#comment-446859</link>
		<dc:creator>Curious About Curiosity? What to Read on the Mars Rover &#124; Surprising Science</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=41216#comment-446859</guid>
		<description>[...] on the web, Bad Astronomy gives you a rundown of what to look for in the liftoff video and has extended thoughts on Curiosity&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] on the web, Bad Astronomy gives you a rundown of what to look for in the liftoff video and has extended thoughts on Curiosity&#8217;s [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Donnie B.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/comment-page-2/#comment-446856</link>
		<dc:creator>Donnie B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 20:00:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=41216#comment-446856</guid>
		<description>The alternative would be to have the rockets carry the rover all the way to the ground, as with the Surveyors.  But that leaves you with the problem of how to get the rover off the lander.  I can think of several methods (ramps, motorized &quot;garage doors&quot; and the like) but they all seem like they would add weight, bulk, and/or complexity.

Imagine how you&#039;d feel if you got the lander safely on the ground, but then your garage door jammed!

</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The alternative would be to have the rockets carry the rover all the way to the ground, as with the Surveyors.  But that leaves you with the problem of how to get the rover off the lander.  I can think of several methods (ramps, motorized &#8220;garage doors&#8221; and the like) but they all seem like they would add weight, bulk, and/or complexity.</p>
<p>Imagine how you&#8217;d feel if you got the lander safely on the ground, but then your garage door jammed!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Joseph G</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/comment-page-2/#comment-446844</link>
		<dc:creator>Joseph G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 19:21:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=41216#comment-446844</guid>
		<description>@55 artbot:  Well, I don&#039;t think local exhaust contamination is a concern - the engines are already pretty darn low, and this rover has legs (figuratively speaking) and is probably going to roll quite a ways before taking any soil samples anyway.
Now, this is just a guess, but my bet is that it&#039;s because most liquid rocket engines don&#039;t have an &quot;idle&quot; - that is, even though they can almost all be throttled, their &lt;i&gt;minimum&lt;/i&gt; thrust setting might be something like 50 percent. It&#039;s apparently difficult to design pumps and engines so that lower flows of fuel/oxidizer don&#039;t cause combustion instabilities.  Anyway, these rockets are designed to slow this heavy rover down from something like 1000 kph, so I&#039;m betting that they start off at full power, then throttle down when it&#039;s time to drop off the rover.  Without the weight of the rover, the engines probably can&#039;t be throttled down enough to land, period.  They&#039;re already at the low end of their thrust range, so when the lander disconnects, the engine platform HAS to fly away.  It doesn&#039;t have any choice :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@55 artbot:  Well, I don&#8217;t think local exhaust contamination is a concern &#8211; the engines are already pretty darn low, and this rover has legs (figuratively speaking) and is probably going to roll quite a ways before taking any soil samples anyway.<br />
Now, this is just a guess, but my bet is that it&#8217;s because most liquid rocket engines don&#8217;t have an &#8220;idle&#8221; &#8211; that is, even though they can almost all be throttled, their <i>minimum</i> thrust setting might be something like 50 percent. It&#8217;s apparently difficult to design pumps and engines so that lower flows of fuel/oxidizer don&#8217;t cause combustion instabilities.  Anyway, these rockets are designed to slow this heavy rover down from something like 1000 kph, so I&#8217;m betting that they start off at full power, then throttle down when it&#8217;s time to drop off the rover.  Without the weight of the rover, the engines probably can&#8217;t be throttled down enough to land, period.  They&#8217;re already at the low end of their thrust range, so when the lander disconnects, the engine platform HAS to fly away.  It doesn&#8217;t have any choice <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: artbot</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/comment-page-2/#comment-446840</link>
		<dc:creator>artbot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 19:00:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=41216#comment-446840</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve watched that landing animation at least 15 times over the last few months and I still can&#039;t figure out the reason behind lowering the lander on cables at the end.  From the way the engine unit flies off, I&#039;m guessing that it&#039;s either to avoid the rockets kicking up dust into the lander (were it to stay attached), or to avoid contaminating the landing site with rocket fuel/exhaust.  Anyone know ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve watched that landing animation at least 15 times over the last few months and I still can&#8217;t figure out the reason behind lowering the lander on cables at the end.  From the way the engine unit flies off, I&#8217;m guessing that it&#8217;s either to avoid the rockets kicking up dust into the lander (were it to stay attached), or to avoid contaminating the landing site with rocket fuel/exhaust.  Anyone know ?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kevin</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2011/11/27/curiosity-on-its-way-to-mars/comment-page-2/#comment-446835</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Nov 2011 18:26:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=41216#comment-446835</guid>
		<description>@53

Makes sense. Thanks!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@53</p>
<p>Makes sense. Thanks!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

<!-- Performance optimized by W3 Total Cache. Learn more: http://www.w3-edge.com/wordpress-plugins/

Minified using disk
Page Caching using disk

Served from: blogs.discovermagazine.com @ 2012-05-25 06:59:48 -->
