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	<title>Comments on: Happy 25th annniversary, Supernova 1987A!</title>
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	<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/02/23/happy-25th-annniversary-supernova-1987a/</link>
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	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 21 Nov 2012 15:12:45 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Matt B.</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/02/23/happy-25th-annniversary-supernova-1987a/#comment-324350</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt B.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Mar 2012 22:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=44932#comment-324350</guid>
		<description>@0. The link on &quot;Simeis 147&quot; ends up going to the current BA article. It must have a misspelling or something. But this works: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2005/11/13/sky-factory/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@0. The link on &#8220;Simeis 147&#8243; ends up going to the current BA article. It must have a misspelling or something. But this works: <a href="http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2005/11/13/sky-factory/" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2005/11/13/sky-factory/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Messier Tidy Upper</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/02/23/happy-25th-annniversary-supernova-1987a/#comment-324349</link>
		<dc:creator>Messier Tidy Upper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Feb 2012 04:55:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=44932#comment-324349</guid>
		<description>@ 2.

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;Pretty overtired right now so I might be missing something basic here but could this &lt;/i&gt;[stellar merger theory - ed]&lt;i&gt; have triggered the supernova and made it different, perhaps explaining the apparent lack of a stellar remnant? Has that hypothesis been advanced for this yet?
What effects – other than turning a red supergiant blue – might that stellar merger have had on the course and outcome of the 1987 a supernova?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

On further reflection I guess the time scale for that - millions or at least thousands of years earlier - rules it out as the trigger, probably?

Although I&#039;d still love to see the second question there answered if anyone is still reading and can enlighten us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ 2.</p>
<blockquote><p><i>Pretty overtired right now so I might be missing something basic here but could this </i>[stellar merger theory - ed]<i> have triggered the supernova and made it different, perhaps explaining the apparent lack of a stellar remnant? Has that hypothesis been advanced for this yet?<br />
What effects – other than turning a red supergiant blue – might that stellar merger have had on the course and outcome of the 1987 a supernova?</i></p></blockquote>
<p>On further reflection I guess the time scale for that &#8211; millions or at least thousands of years earlier &#8211; rules it out as the trigger, probably?</p>
<p>Although I&#8217;d still love to see the second question there answered if anyone is still reading and can enlighten us.</p>
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		<title>By: Daniele Fargion</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/02/23/happy-25th-annniversary-supernova-1987a/#comment-324348</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniele Fargion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Feb 2012 17:57:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=44932#comment-324348</guid>
		<description>The SN 1987 A had many merit:
nearest SN  explosion, first neutrinos, bounds on neutrino masses, first hint of axialsymmetric SN (jet like) collimated  but off axis as most SN-GRB jet events.

  In my opinion the ring  and the nebula inside are showing an hour-glass structure soon or later revealed as a precessing and spinning jet. DF and A Salis
 inAstrophysics and Space Science
Volume 231, Numbers 1-2, 191-194, DOI: 10.1007/BF00658614
Precessing Gamma jets, GRB and the twin rings around SN1987A ..

  However the SN1987A neutrino event did help (to some of us) to severely constrains and reject the so called (embarassing or unfortunate ) recent  super-luminal claim (Opera-Cern) on neutrino tachyon speed  that we now feel coming back to reality...see arXiv:1109.5368 .
  Best regards  DF</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The SN 1987 A had many merit:<br />
nearest SN  explosion, first neutrinos, bounds on neutrino masses, first hint of axialsymmetric SN (jet like) collimated  but off axis as most SN-GRB jet events.</p>
<p>  In my opinion the ring  and the nebula inside are showing an hour-glass structure soon or later revealed as a precessing and spinning jet. DF and A Salis<br />
 inAstrophysics and Space Science<br />
Volume 231, Numbers 1-2, 191-194, DOI: 10.1007/BF00658614<br />
Precessing Gamma jets, GRB and the twin rings around SN1987A ..</p>
<p>  However the SN1987A neutrino event did help (to some of us) to severely constrains and reject the so called (embarassing or unfortunate ) recent  super-luminal claim (Opera-Cern) on neutrino tachyon speed  that we now feel coming back to reality&#8230;see arXiv:1109.5368 .<br />
  Best regards  DF</p>
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		<title>By: Février 2012 &#124; La création</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/02/23/happy-25th-annniversary-supernova-1987a/#comment-324347</link>
		<dc:creator>Février 2012 &#124; La création</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Feb 2012 07:51:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=44932#comment-324347</guid>
		<description>[...] qui a engendré les étranges anneaux de  la supernova 1987A ? En 1987, il y a donc  25 ans de cela, la plus brillante  supernova de l&#8217;histoire contemporaine a explosé dans  le Grand Nuage de [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] qui a engendré les étranges anneaux de  la supernova 1987A ? En 1987, il y a donc  25 ans de cela, la plus brillante  supernova de l&#8217;histoire contemporaine a explosé dans  le Grand Nuage de [...] </p>
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		<title>By: supernova1987a</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/02/23/happy-25th-annniversary-supernova-1987a/#comment-324346</link>
		<dc:creator>supernova1987a</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Feb 2012 07:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=44932#comment-324346</guid>
		<description>Happy Birthday To Me!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Happy Birthday To Me!</p>
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		<title>By: Los misteriosos anillos de la supernova 1987A &#124; Imagen astronomía diaria - Observatorio</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/02/23/happy-25th-annniversary-supernova-1987a/#comment-324345</link>
		<dc:creator>Los misteriosos anillos de la supernova 1987A &#124; Imagen astronomía diaria - Observatorio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Feb 2012 08:10:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=44932#comment-324345</guid>
		<description>[...] Hace 25 años , en 1987, en la Gran Nube de Magallanes se vio la supernova más brillante de la historia reciente. La imagen es una fotografía tomada el año pasado por el Telescopio Espacial Hubble del remanente de esta supernova 1987A. En el centro hay un objeto con los restos de la violenta explosión estelar y, a su alrededor, unos curiosos anillos exteriores que parecen un 8 aplanado. Aunque los grandes telescopios como el Telescopio Espacial Hubble hacen el seguimiento de estos curiosos anillos cada pocos años, su origen sigue siendo un misterio. [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Hace 25 años , en 1987, en la Gran Nube de Magallanes se vio la supernova más brillante de la historia reciente. La imagen es una fotografía tomada el año pasado por el Telescopio Espacial Hubble del remanente de esta supernova 1987A. En el centro hay un objeto con los restos de la violenta explosión estelar y, a su alrededor, unos curiosos anillos exteriores que parecen un 8 aplanado. Aunque los grandes telescopios como el Telescopio Espacial Hubble hacen el seguimiento de estos curiosos anillos cada pocos años, su origen sigue siendo un misterio. [...] </p>
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		<title>By: The Mysterious Rings of Supernova 1987A &#124; Imagen astronomía diaria - Observatorio</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/02/23/happy-25th-annniversary-supernova-1987a/#comment-324344</link>
		<dc:creator>The Mysterious Rings of Supernova 1987A &#124; Imagen astronomía diaria - Observatorio</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Feb 2012 07:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=44932#comment-324344</guid>
		<description>[...] 25 años, en 1987, la supernova más brillante de la historia reciente apareció en la Gran Nube de [...] </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] 25 años, en 1987, la supernova más brillante de la historia reciente apareció en la Gran Nube de [...] </p>
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		<title>By: OneofNone</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/02/23/happy-25th-annniversary-supernova-1987a/#comment-324343</link>
		<dc:creator>OneofNone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 11:40:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=44932#comment-324343</guid>
		<description>@5. Arie:

I guess I found the answer to your question. According to &lt;a href=&quot;http://cupp.oulu.fi/neutrino/nd-sn.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Ultimate Neutrino Page&lt;/a&gt; the Neutrinos have been observed on February 23 7:35 UTC. So this is taken as the time SN1987A happened (the Core collapsed).
The light has been seen first on February 24 23:00 UTC. That&#039;s after SN1987A became visible. The light has been there earlier, but someone had to notice that.

As Dutch Railroader explained in #17, the visible event really happened at some time in this window of 39:25 hours.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@5. Arie:</p>
<p>I guess I found the answer to your question. According to <a href="http://cupp.oulu.fi/neutrino/nd-sn.html" rel="nofollow">The Ultimate Neutrino Page</a> the Neutrinos have been observed on February 23 7:35 UTC. So this is taken as the time SN1987A happened (the Core collapsed).<br />
The light has been seen first on February 24 23:00 UTC. That&#8217;s after SN1987A became visible. The light has been there earlier, but someone had to notice that.</p>
<p>As Dutch Railroader explained in #17, the visible event really happened at some time in this window of 39:25 hours.</p>
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		<title>By: Messier Tidy Upper</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/02/23/happy-25th-annniversary-supernova-1987a/#comment-324342</link>
		<dc:creator>Messier Tidy Upper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2012 00:38:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=44932#comment-324342</guid>
		<description>@11.   amphiox :

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;i&gt;What are the odds that the first supernova we got to see that was nearby and that we really got to examine in detail with modern astronomy instruments would turn out to be an unusual one, rather than an average one? Could it be that SN1987A was not actually unusual, but just appears unusual to us due to insufficient knowledge about the true diversity of supernovas? And how would this consideration apply to probability statements founded on similar logic, such as “well, this earth-like planet is only 20 light years away, and so for us to find one now, so soon after looking, must mean that earth-like planets are very common in the galaxy”?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well co-incidence does play a role and the sample size is far too small.

For instance, yellow dwarf stars similar to our Sun make up only around 4% of all stars with nearly all being much cooler, fainter red, white* and &lt;i&gt;(if you call &#039;em stars*)&lt;/i&gt; brown dwarfs.  Yet Alpha Centauri - our nearest stellar neighbour - contains two such stars albeit Alpha Centauri B is an  relatively bright, hot and massive example of an orange dwarf.

Toss a dice five times in a row and you&#039;ll get lucky and throw five sixes on  occassion - but that won&#039;t be a probable result. Unless the dice is weighted natch! ;-)

Only when the sample size grows eg. we&#039;ve made a thorough and complete as possible survey of all the nearby stars and their exoplanets or have a larger list of supernovae do we get a real idea of how typical / likely such things are.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

* Technically speaking you could also argue that white dwarfs are no longer &quot;true&quot; stars but stellar corpses / remnants - although few people do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@11.   amphiox :</p>
<blockquote><p><i>What are the odds that the first supernova we got to see that was nearby and that we really got to examine in detail with modern astronomy instruments would turn out to be an unusual one, rather than an average one? Could it be that SN1987A was not actually unusual, but just appears unusual to us due to insufficient knowledge about the true diversity of supernovas? And how would this consideration apply to probability statements founded on similar logic, such as “well, this earth-like planet is only 20 light years away, and so for us to find one now, so soon after looking, must mean that earth-like planets are very common in the galaxy”?</i></p></blockquote>
<p>Well co-incidence does play a role and the sample size is far too small.</p>
<p>For instance, yellow dwarf stars similar to our Sun make up only around 4% of all stars with nearly all being much cooler, fainter red, white* and <i>(if you call &#8216;em stars*)</i> brown dwarfs.  Yet Alpha Centauri &#8211; our nearest stellar neighbour &#8211; contains two such stars albeit Alpha Centauri B is an  relatively bright, hot and massive example of an orange dwarf.</p>
<p>Toss a dice five times in a row and you&#8217;ll get lucky and throw five sixes on  occassion &#8211; but that won&#8217;t be a probable result. Unless the dice is weighted natch! <img src='http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Only when the sample size grows eg. we&#8217;ve made a thorough and complete as possible survey of all the nearby stars and their exoplanets or have a larger list of supernovae do we get a real idea of how typical / likely such things are.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
<p>* Technically speaking you could also argue that white dwarfs are no longer &#8220;true&#8221; stars but stellar corpses / remnants &#8211; although few people do.</p>
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		<title>By: Allen Thomson</title>
		<link>http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2012/02/23/happy-25th-annniversary-supernova-1987a/#comment-324341</link>
		<dc:creator>Allen Thomson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Feb 2012 22:39:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/?p=44932#comment-324341</guid>
		<description>A question about the bright white spots around the reddish ring: They appear to be somewhat regularly distributed. If you Fourier analyzed their distribution, I&#039;d guess there&#039;d be a fairly sharp spike.  Is that true and, if so, why?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A question about the bright white spots around the reddish ring: They appear to be somewhat regularly distributed. If you Fourier analyzed their distribution, I&#8217;d guess there&#8217;d be a fairly sharp spike.  Is that true and, if so, why?</p>
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